I don't care what you read in a magazine. I would actually be embarrassed to publicly admit that all my information came from a magazine lol. Saying it is not a performance car shows your lack of knowledge about cars in general. You've never driven one so your opinion is meaningless.
I'm actually embarrased for you, if you think that a bmw335 is some kind of performance car, but then again i'm not in the 13 sec club. I guess your car being slow and heavy distorts your point of view. Besides the fact, magazines are where you read to gain knowledge about vehicles. I guess the words in the magazines are too advanced for you to understand or something. And I'm assuming by the jackass post you made, that you must have some kind of performance comparison test that you did at a track with the bmw and a corvette(a real performance car). Funny i drive a real performance car( look up zo6) with a 500rwhp stroker that i installed in the car along with all the other modifications. I had two ls1 camaros before that, both of them modified faster than your car. Now what experience is it you have again. Oh yeah i remember you test drove one, you must be some kind of an expert or something.
__________________ 01 sierra C3- cammed LS2 in the works
01 quicksilver zo6- 414in forged l92 500rwhp-gone
98 z28- bolt ons tr224 390rwhp sold
Kind of a weird reason for disliking a certain automobile. I don't pick a specific car to buy so I will fit in with some kind of image. You should be more secure in yourself.
You don't and neither do I but people label others.
__________________ 91 Jeep Wrangler Renegade, gone but not forgotten
98 SS M6, exhaust, SLP air lid, Pacesetter LT's, LS6 intake, ported throttle body, de-screened MAF, Subframe connectors, Strut tower brace,
Sitting in my room waiting to be installed: LS2 Timing chain, W2W high volume oil pump, Hardened Pushrods, Comp 918 beehive springs, http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo169/krominix/
347 Hp/349 TQ SAE on Dynojet
One more opinion here from someone who has owned/driven all cars being compared. I am a mechanic at a Porsche/BMW dealer, so I've driven them all. I have owned 2 Ls1 Trans Ams and stock to stock, the 335 will wax them in all categories. On Thursday I drove an 07' Z06. It was an awesome car, one of my dream cars as a matter of fact, but if I had to drive something everyday, i'd pick the 335. Even a base 3 series is a better put together vehicle as far as fit and finish. As for the 335's power, it drastically underrated. We've seen dyno graphs of cars putting claimed flywheel power numbers at the wheels.
If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
__________________ 2001 WS6. 408 @ 9 psi, 641rwhp @ 5500rpm. Sold
1971 Suburban, LQ9, 4L80E, NP261, 38's. Current project.
One more opinion here from someone who has owned/driven all cars being compared. I am a mechanic at a Porsche/BMW dealer, so I've driven them all. I have owned 2 Ls1 Trans Ams and stock to stock, the 335 will wax them in all categories. On Thursday I drove an 07' Z06. It was an awesome car, one of my dream cars as a matter of fact, but if I had to drive something everyday, i'd pick the 335. Even a base 3 series is a better put together vehicle as far as fit and finish. As for the 335's power, it drastically underrated. We've seen dyno graphs of cars putting claimed flywheel power numbers at the wheels. If your going to say the 335 is not a performance car because it's not fast enough, then I'd say a WS6 is not a performance car because it doesn't corner or stop well enough. It's all a matter of opinion and what your used to.
That being said I would love to own a new Camaro or Vette over the Beemer, simply for the potential factor. What I can to it matters to me more than what it comes with. But if I weren't going to touch it, I'd take the Beemer.
Just my .02
See i disagree with the performance car... I don't consider American pushrod muscle cars full scale performance cars. I didn't buy it to corner cause i know my f-body wasn't meant to do it. It's old school muscle with a little new school technology. It's definitley not a full blown performance/sports like they classify the 335.
__________________ 91 Jeep Wrangler Renegade, gone but not forgotten
98 SS M6, exhaust, SLP air lid, Pacesetter LT's, LS6 intake, ported throttle body, de-screened MAF, Subframe connectors, Strut tower brace,
Sitting in my room waiting to be installed: LS2 Timing chain, W2W high volume oil pump, Hardened Pushrods, Comp 918 beehive springs, http://s372.photobucket.com/albums/oo169/krominix/
347 Hp/349 TQ SAE on Dynojet
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Either way, my point was that a car doesn't have to be the best in ALL categories to be be considered a performance car.
__________________ 2001 WS6. 408 @ 9 psi, 641rwhp @ 5500rpm. Sold
1971 Suburban, LQ9, 4L80E, NP261, 38's. Current project.
Last i checked i dont remember reading any magazines where bmw's outrun corvettes on tracks, wether we are talking 1/4 mile, autocross, skidpad or anything. Actually it seems in the last car and driver magazine i picked up, the 4300lb ctsv beat a new m3 around a race track. So why would i care anything about a bmw. It is not a performance car. It is a luxury sedan, and if i wanted one i would go after a cts-v not some slow bmw, no matter how light the steering is.
You are right about the magazines, but I am talking actual track times. I also read many of the kill stories where vettes lose and win to 335s. Of course this is just fun reading. And I will say most of the vette kill stories are from chipped 335s running in the mid 12s to high 11s. You are right though, I have to admit I stated wrong: ls1 vettes are faster than stock 335s and if a vette loses it is probalby due to a knucklehead driver. But sometimes the faster car does lose.
But to call BMWs slow is just a little misinfomred. They do focus more on handling. They are fun to drive, try it. And I have owned 3 4th gen Fbodies, 2 Rustangs, a GTO, a Duster 340 and a few other modded V8 cars. I was thinking Camaro, but now maybe a used C6. Maybe this would be a sounder financial move and probably more fun. After my 335 lease expires.
I dislike those types of cars because of the types of people who drive them (majority). Now you guys are gonna say that douche bags drive f-bodys too but here in Miami 99% of people who drive BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus think that they are THE SHIT. I remember last semester I show up to my math lab and some girl tells me I have a nice car and i told she does too, just to be polite... not really of fan of how BMW's look.... anyways i tell her "You should tint it it will look really nice." and she says "Yeah right... Are you kidding me I want to be seen in that car." -_-
Good point. Yes snobby jerks abound in BMW land. There are a few here too, but of a different kind. But also there are a fair number of knowledgable car people with BMWs who have owned many types of cars.
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Either way, my point was that a car doesn't have to be the best in ALL categories to be be considered a performance car.
I do not consider my LT1 WS6 much of a performance car at all. So many newer cars will kill it in so many ways. But it is fun to drive. Maybe that is what we all are looking for. Riding down the Jersey shore with the TTops off, the radio blasting, the LT1 roaring, does it get any better than this? The 335 is fun to drive to Ohio with my daughter looking at colleges while digging the tunes and the hi-tech gagets, the smooth rush of power, the great handing, and maybe we dust off a G35 along the way. A different kind of fun but just as much.
But for me any car that can lift it's front wheels off the ground is a performance car too, no questions asked.
Boostat4500, are you seriously trying to compare performance cars that were built a decade apart? Lets go back to the 1998 3 series, hell you can go to the 2001 where it had a whopping 225hp and ran high 14's. I think you have to take into account the time when the car was built for one thing. 2nd why are you talking about the interior quality, and how much better of a daily driver the car is, last i checked performance cars are measured by performance, and that is what they are built for. If you want to argue that the m series are performance cars then i will agree. I never said all bmw's were slow, but a 40k car that is supposedly built for performance should be faster. Besides the fact that i do not believe a 2008 bmw335 will wax a 10yr old 1998 m6 z28 in a straight line. Which is sad. When the new camaro's are out to buy and drive then you can compare the chassis and steering and whatever else. But until then the only car in the price range of the 335 that is a real performance car is a vette, and it crushes the 335 and the m3, it will probably beat an m5 m6 and anything else you can come up with that bmw makes. So what if the interior is plastic, the car was built for speed, and handling and it does those things very well hence the reason it is a performance car. Shit the m3 cant beat a porky 4300lb caddy.
__________________ 01 sierra C3- cammed LS2 in the works
01 quicksilver zo6- 414in forged l92 500rwhp-gone
98 z28- bolt ons tr224 390rwhp sold
this is how i see it. when european companies come out with a car that is a better performance car then most of the american competitors then all the euro fans are performance oriented. but when they make a car that is slower and more expensive then its american competitors, the euro fans are simply luxury oriented. i like the new 335i a whole lot and the people on that forum arent too bad, a lot of them seem to respect the new camaro. but then theres always gonna be those stuck up bimmer guys. ill stick to my performance oriented chevys! anyways who needs triple stitched Moroccan imported alcantra leather with suede inserts. God forbid you dont have that and experience a bit of uncomfort
I wasn't trying to compare the cars like that, just give my driving impression on each. And also to state that just because it isn't the fastest in a straight line, doesn't mean it's not a "performance" car. Everyone seems to associate performance with how fast it is. There's lots of different types of "performance". If all you care about is going straight, then any car that came stock with an LSx motor is the wrong starting point anyway, you should be building a rail or an old car that weighs a lot less. I mentioned interior quality and daily driveability because it was part of my driving impression, I'm sorry that offended you so much! As for the age difference, and I can only compare an M3 ( my dad has a 97' ) to a 4th gen, the BMW still wins everything but straight line. Speaking of which, unless a 98' Z28 is faster than an 01' WS6 or 01' SS Camaro, yes I do believe an 08' 335 will beat it in a straight line. I've driven them back to back for comparison. I can't wait to drive a new Camaro and see how it feels. I'd bet a lot of money however that the 335 will out perform everywhere but a straight line, and it should for 15k more!
I'm not trying to defend BMW or put down Chevy here, just givng some opinions, like everyone else. If I could afford to, I'd love to buy a new Camaro or Vette and mod the shit out of it. If I didn't have a baby on the way I'd have an order in right now for an Inferno Orange 6 speed. I've always loved the LSx platform cars, and always will!
Nwmembr19: You keep saying the 335 is not a performance car, have you actually driven one? I'll bet you'd be surprised how comperable it feels to your 01' Z06 when it was stock. Not as fast in a straight line, but closer than you'd think. The 335 instills an amazing amount of confidence when you start to push it.
O, and just for giggles since you brought up the Vette vs an M5 or M6, and how "fast" everything is, the BMW will win. If you remove the limiter they will both do 205 mph in bone stock form, which topps even the Z06. Personally, I'd still take the Z06 though if it were just a toy!
__________________ 2001 WS6. 408 @ 9 psi, 641rwhp @ 5500rpm. Sold
1971 Suburban, LQ9, 4L80E, NP261, 38's. Current project.
Last edited by BOOSTAT4500; 01-19-2009 at 12:18 AM..
True, the quickest known track time on record for a pure bone stock LS1 C5 (non Z06) is a 12.6 at roughly 111mph.
C5 Z06s of course have gone 11.8s and even an 11.7 in stock trim.
Well in many cases the LS1 C5s are not a full 400 pounds lighter (even less than 150 pounds depending on which models/option packages you're comparing) than the LS1 F-bodies and secondly, well, they are faster than they are as I'd noted above (12.6).
x2...
Record as far as I know for a stock F-body is 12.8 @ 108mph. (someone may know of a different time but that's the only one I know of by a reputable source.)
Boostat4500, this will be the last thing i post about the car because it's obvious you hold your performance cars to a lower standard than I. But i will say that you are no expert and your opinion really matters very little as to wether you think it handles well or you think it is faster, although your exact words were it will wax a ls1 f body. And because you have done no comparison tests between them, then it is only your opinion.
Now with that said, I never said anything about how performance cars are only fast in a straight line. I used examples like zo6's or vipers, as real performance cars, and they excel in all categories. For a comparison we will use a racetrack. This is where performance cars are measured, and it takes into account all aspects of performance, and that only. I will use the racetrack where everyone tests their cars, the Nurburgring.
BMW 335i E92 Coupe8:26 2008 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 8:22
Holy shit that bmw is a badass performance car. On a race track where a couple of seconds is an eternity the ss cobalt lays the smack down. I wouldnt rank the bmw too high on the ladder of performance cars. Compares to my zo6 when it was stock i hardly think so.
Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 7:56
Bad comparison. I dont care what it feels like, what the interior looks like, how well it is put together I care how the car performs and for 40k it is a joke. The cobalt comes in 20k cheaper. Most magazine times i looked up said it runs the 1/4 in 13.4-13.6 at 104-106 basically stock ls1 f body times. They might be alittle faster than that, but so are ls1 f bodies, so the way i look at it it's a toss up, but far from waxing.
And lastly what you said about top speed really means nothing. Top speed has more to do with gear ratios than anything else. I have topped out my car at what looked like 189 (very smooth at that speed by the way), The only reason why because that is the end of 5th gear, and 6th is nothing but a double overdrive which is way to steep. The bmw's have a 7 speed, so they have an extra gear they can use for top speed and still have decent acceleration time. It means nothing. Anyways i am done arguing because you have no proof that the car performs well unless you think that loosing to a cobalt around a race track, even though the cobalt would lose in a straightline(which shows i'm not comparing acceleration), is good performance.
__________________ 01 sierra C3- cammed LS2 in the works
01 quicksilver zo6- 414in forged l92 500rwhp-gone
98 z28- bolt ons tr224 390rwhp sold
bmws are extremely overrated. that said, they still are very good cars, just not as good as many people think.
theres no question in my mind the camaro ss will be a much better all around car. the engine and tranny and all should be very reliable, and i'll bet it will either out handle, or equal the 335. its suspension was designed on the nurgurgring, probably by the same people that made the cts-v the world's fastest sedan.
__________________ M6 T/A with lid, slp lm1, corsa clones, sequential signals, and some stickers and paint
dude u cant compare a 2008 car to a car made in 2002, the fbody was kiking the ass of the bmw'r back in 02.
they are fun cars though and the price difference also sets them apart..
I drove a 335 recently and it was a very nice car, tight, predictable handling and great power in a stock vehicle. Exactly what I would expect from it. I don't purchase Foreign cars since I prefer supporting American jobs, but even if this was an American car I could not imagine buying one. Can't quite put my finger on it but there is no attraction and no soul whats so ever in BMW products, except maybe the M1 or the Isetta (Gag). It's almost as though they are a better handling, more powerful version of a Honda Accord.
Camaro vs BMW is like comparing a dirt bike to a cruiser.
__________________ TT632's Vehicles:
4th gen SOM Formula, 700 HP 427 or 1350 HP TT 421
05 Avalanche. 02 GMC 1/2 Ton
97 S10
95 Firebird
87 Olds 442 60k all orig
05 POS Rav4.
Well said.
as I'd noted above (12.6). 
