CAD Drawings

v8pwr · 05-05-2009, 05:40 PM

Where can I find drawings of various parts of engines including exhaust port layout , intake layout , valve cover , and others ? I'd like to make some parts and it would be nice to have a source for these drawings and not having to reverse engineer something . Any help would be greatly appreciated .

alamantia · 05-05-2009, 05:46 PM

I would assume that all after market companies have to reverse engineer parts. GM isnt going to cough up models or even 2d drawings.

Shawn @ VA Speed · 05-05-2009, 05:48 PM

believe it or not,gm does give up it's drawings to sema,if you a sema member you can go online and download tons of cad files

v8pwr · 05-05-2009, 06:07 PM

Shawn , that's awesome and thank you . What does it take to become a member of SEMA ? I'd like more than GM but I'll take what I can get . I can reverse engineer with my new CMM .

Sharpe · 05-05-2009, 06:26 PM

There's a big thread on this, with file links to SEMA stuff and everything, IIRC... Lemme see if I can find it...

TransAm12sec · 05-05-2009, 06:33 PM

Let me know what you find. I found one company in Milwaukee that has a 3D scanner.

v8pwr, where do you work?

v8pwr · 05-05-2009, 07:35 PM

I work for an aerospace/defense contractor . I get to build some cool shit . I'd like to use the equipment to build some stuff for myself , my employer is really cool and that's not an issue at all . I just like making stuff and some good equipment at my disposal like a new VMC that can hold .0001 , a CMM that can measure .1 of a micron or .00004 of an inch , hydroabrasive machining (waterjet) , I do SolidWorks/CamWorks Solids and we're looking at getting a multitasking machining center (think CNC lathe & mill that can make a part in one fixturing op) . I used to fabricate composites for the aerospace/defense industry also . I don't know if it would ever grow into a business , I just like this kind work .

chrs1313 · 05-06-2009, 08:53 AM

i always find that interesting that a CMM can measure down to .1 micron...what purpose would that serve unless you are in the field of nanotechnology...99.9% of everything that is ever made cant hold those tolerances...i guess that is where the marketing department comes into play...

Detroitmuscle · 05-06-2009, 09:45 AM

I operate a CMM and have been for years now, and while yes you can reverse engineer many parts I would suggest finding someone with a whitelight or laser scanning arm. Although they are not as accurant as a cmm both can provide accurate dimensions inside and out of parts without disassembly and the laser arm can be done in like 15-20 minutes.

zx9rgreen · 05-06-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrs1313

i always find that interesting that a CMM can measure down to .1 micron...what purpose would that serve unless you are in the field of nanotechnology...99.9% of everything that is ever made cant hold those tolerances...i guess that is where the marketing department comes into play...

I program CMMs for a living myself and work in two mass production engine facilities. We hold tolerances of 0.003mm (3 microns) all the time on our mass production grinders. We also hold some positional tolerances of 0.015mm all the time with no problems at all. We house over 130 CNC machines.

v8pwr · 05-06-2009, 05:08 PM

I guess some people don't realize that there are many machines capable of holding these tolerances , it's all in the capabilities of the people running them . Take a look @ any high quality racing parts , they hold some pretty tight tolerances . Process development goes a long way . I'd like to have a laser scanner myself , what kind of tolerances can they scan to ? The only thing I've ever used like that was a Hitachi Scanning Electron Microscope , that could measure some insanely small shit . I'll look into the SEMA thing , does anyone know of any other sources ?

Mike454SS · 05-06-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrs1313

i always find that interesting that a CMM can measure down to .1 micron...what purpose would that serve unless you are in the field of nanotechnology...99.9% of everything that is ever made cant hold those tolerances...i guess that is where the marketing department comes into play...

There's a LOT more in the world than the stuff you see...thats why you're not aware of whats made that holds tighter tolerances.

Also, generally, to properly measure and use accurate data for statistical analysis/process control...you really NEEEEED measurement equipment that is at least if not more than 1 order of magnitude (1 decimal place) more accurate than the tolerance you're trying to manufacture the part to...hence why CMM's and other measurement equipment have come such a long way.

I am an applications engineer for Haas Automation's New England outlet (if you work in manufacturing, you've probably heard of us...if you follow Nascar then I'm sure you've seen Tony Stewart and Ryan Newmans new team/cars this year too)...I have customers holding tolerances in the 0.0002" range on my machinery...takes some skill on their behalf...and on mine too. I'm not allowed to say what parts they're holding those tolerances on though so please don't ask...sorry.

Think about it...if the part needs to be 1.000" +/- 0.001" and your measurement tool is only accurate to 0.001"...yeah you kinda know if the parts are good or bad...but you can't see the trend in dimension when the tool starts to wear or something starts to go wrong in the process and it starts to head from 1.0003" to 1.0004" and 1.0005" and so on and correct it before it gets to 1.0011" and scraps a part...get it?...sometimes the part costs ~$20K (a number I pulled from my ass...some cost a lot more than that) before there's even any machinework done on them...but in some cases with some parts and some materials and some specs, scrap is scrap (can't weld material back on to try again) and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is wasted...

v8pwr · 10-13-2009, 06:00 PM

I'm bringing this back as I cannot afford to pay for the membership to look @ these files . Is there another alternative ? I've searched and can't find anything except for the SEMA membership . Any help would be greatly appreciated .

NemeSS · 10-13-2009, 06:13 PM

most are reluctant to give out there files or info.
i physically had to spec the parts i designed, since i could find no info on what i was looking to build, and not many that want to help with what i was looking to make, so i had to research everything, but i ended up with my own proprietary info for my parts, and of course i would not give away any info either.so i guess it comes around.

v8pwr · 10-14-2009, 01:00 PM

I totally respect the fact that you had to design your product and you should keep that info , I'm only wanting some things I see as relatively simple but don't have the resources ( SEMA Membership ) to get them . I would like to fabricate a fixture that would replicate an assembled longblock for intake manifold design . I would make it out of welded aluminum plate and then machine the faces @ the correct angle and appropriate bolt hole locations to replicate a stock engine . I have some things I want to try and see for myself . I have CAMWorks w/ SolidWorks but can look @ most 3D content . I know if I worked hard on something I wouldn't just give it away but if this is something that GM does release freely but with some control , I think I should be able to ask if I can have them and purchase them for a reasonable amount .

NB1-LSX · 10-25-2009, 07:10 PM

Did you find a source for drawings? I was wondering if one could set up a cmm to msr a set of heads (I don't worry about reach because I assume a similar reach for the cnc) & then run the cnc to just smooth the surface knocking off any gross roughness of the casting.

I don't see a big problem with that, or even cmm'ing a ported head, given the power of the programs these days. As long as you ensure reliable datum, you'd think this would be a slam dunk, especially as GM went to the trouble of "replicated" ports.

This is not a pitch, just looking for a second opinion on the process.

v8pwr · 10-25-2009, 07:51 PM

No I didn't find a source but if I did I would protect their interests . I usually write inspection programs from approved solid models . I can write pretty complicated inspection programs without but it takes some time , not knowing the actual dimensions and the associated tolerances would take even longer . The CMM I use has scanning abilities which is great but I can see it could take some time to develop a quality measurement plan without a solid model . Scanning someonelse's work would also be involved and I'm not looking to copy anyone other than GM for compatability reasons . The CMM I use doesn't have the work cube to measure a complete engine . I'd really like to use an articulating head to measure a cylinder head .

zx9rgreen · 10-29-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8pwr

No I didn't find a source but if I did I would protect their interests . I usually write inspection programs from approved solid models . I can write pretty complicated inspection programs without but it takes some time , not knowing the actual dimensions and the associated tolerances would take even longer . The CMM I use has scanning abilities which is great but I can see it could take some time to develop a quality measurement plan without a solid model . Scanning someonelse's work would also be involved and I'm not looking to copy anyone other than GM for compatability reasons . The CMM I use doesn't have the work cube to measure a complete engine . I'd really like to use an articulating head to measure a cylinder head .

X2 on the articulating head CMM for Cylinder Head measurements. There are so many angles on the heads (We recently purchased a Zeiss Contura G2 and the thing is just a POS). But anyways, I work with a engineer that is from GM and was on the Gen3 project. I'll shoot him an email and see if he has any models.

v8pwr · 10-29-2009, 07:47 PM

We have a G2 and although it takes alot to learn it , it's a good machine . How was your training ? I think that has a lot to do with it . We've learned tons on our own and using a solid model makes writing a measurement plan very easy .

zx9rgreen · 10-29-2009, 07:59 PM

I have been using Calypso for years and have programed a lot with the G2. I have used the G2 at my work and I have also writen programs on a suppliers G2 (big bed) for side work. The guy from J&H tools (he holds the lunch and learns) came down and gave some simple classes on the G2. Anyways I sent my guy an email but I havent heard back from him yet.