KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

My car was blasted with A light sprinkle from the sprinkler when I was out of town for labor day weekend.

Yesterday morning I decided to clean the car up and this is what happened...


(hood only)

I did 3 wash sessions.
Claybar.
Wash again.
Claybar again.
Wash again..
Orbital DA with Swirl remover.
Wash
Orbital DA With more swirl remover.... (spots started to go away..)


Repeated the last steps for 3 hours untill I couldn't see any swirls or spots any more.

With the car in the garage at night with the lights on the Paint the hood looked AMAZING..


The Next morning I took the car outside... and WTF-F... The spots CAME BACK AND WORSE!



Its like hologram spots.. under direct light reflection it looks like I didnt even touch the spots...

Does this mean I need to have the paint F-ing Acid treated??

NC01TA

You sure it was the sprinklers and not a light acid rain? My Z3 'lived' in Southern Cal the first few years and the rain went through the clearcoat. Looked just like that and real obvious in flourescent light. Just the opposite of yours apparently. Nasty! If just a sprinkler the chemicals in that water must be unreal. Sorry to see. You certainly took the right steps.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Ouch! Thats harsh! I've never seen any water spots THAT stubborn!

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

I'm 100% sure it was the sprinkler. The rest of the car looks ****. The hood and top of the facia are the only effected spots.

This isn't looking to good.. I dressed the paint with two 5 minute applications of 5% white distilled vinegar..

NO RESULTS!!


ughh..

7camaro7

iTrader: (15)

I bet you're washing your car in the day time when the sun is drying it before you do. I also learned that if you use a harsh wheel cleaner, the mist is attracted by the water on the car. That caused the worst spots on my car. Some wheel cleaners are super harsh.

Wash/dry the car in the shade or late evening. That's what I do. I did the clay bar thing to get rid of it one time too. You might get lucky like i did and be able to just wash it the correct way like I said above lol. I never wash in the middle of the day or use wheel cleaners.

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

Neither have I man..

Im going to do some research on my local water source minerals.. and look for a solution through that.. Throwing money and time at it doesnt seem to help..


Im not wanting to eat life out of my clear over this either..

sstg

iTrader: (5)

Here ya go, no clear removal...

http://www.autogeek.net/finish-kare-...ng-system.html

JeaneZ28

iTrader: (3)

I know how you feel. I used mothers claybar on my car for 10 hours and still could not get all the waterspots off.

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the .02 but..
Nope and Nope again...

Like stated the sprinkler misted my car. The water formed into beads, evaporated and left mineral deposits.

I did hours of washing/claying/treating/buffing + an hour of Acid treatment in the shade... NOTHING..

When I run my finger nail over the spots there is no difference in texture between paint and spots..

My guess is this is some sort of sulfer/iron deposit baked into the paint..


Are there any professional detailers with experience on this in the house?

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

CAUTION: The Finish Kare Paint Decontamination System is for professional use only.


Im just a Joe..

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

Hey im from Cypress, Went to Cy-Fair!

How did you get the spots off?

pir7tr

iTrader: (23)

Meguiars M105

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

Ill have to check that out!

DriftR

iTrader: (4)

Ouch!.. that looks pretty bad. You did take the right steps but it looks like the water spots are etched into the clear so you will have to get more aggressive and get down to some new clear. Try white compound next. Red is more aggressive, and wetsand with 2000 grit will remove the clear even quicker, then work your way back through the steps.

JeaneZ28

iTrader: (3)

I didn’t get them all out. I just used the claybar on the same spot and tried to get as much off as I could. I would say it got about 90% of the spots out and took me 10 straight hours to do. You talk about a sore arm.

sstg

iTrader: (5)

You can use it,thats a warning statement against carelessness. Do not wetsand or compound the paint until youv'e tried this or a similar type product. Removing clear allows for premature paint failure. ALWAYS use the least agressive method first. Here's a good read for ya.



Recommended Products
In the interest of full disclosure, I am in no way affiliated with, employed by, have any vested interest, or in any way receive compensation from the sale or distribution of the product lines reviewed or the company that manufactures or markets it.

Results Obtained
These articles are not intended to warrant or guarantee any results with any of the products mentioned. No endorsement of companies or their products mentioned is intended, nor is criticism implied of similar companies or their products not mentioned. The author does not provide, nor guarantee and is not responsible or liable for any third-party products or services. Brand, product and company names used throughout these articles are trademarks of their respective companies and are used for product identification purposes only.

Proper Technique
A sound understanding of the proper technique and the correct process will produce excellent results even with a mediocre product. A quality product used without the proper surface preparation or application technique will never obtain a satisfactory result. Using the proper methodology (surface preparation, using a quality product, along with the correct application technique) will ensure an excellent result.

Skill Level / Experience
Some methods described may be beyond the capabilities of the average detailer or enthusiast; in this case we strongly encourage the reader to consult a professional detailer or body shop concerning the matters discussed herein.

Liability
The writer assumes no responsibility, expressed or implied, due to misuse or misinterpretation of the information or methods used, or for any vehicle damage or injury that may occur due to the suggestions and information offered.

Product Quality and Technique
Proceed with this in mind; the products you use constitute a very small factor in the equation. Methodology and technique constitute 95%; the reasoning behind the choice of quality products is to eliminate any limiting factors, thus enabling you to place emphasis on technique used. There is no `one correct way' to apply a product; the way detailing products are customized are what each individual finds give them their desired results.

Aesthetics
The aesthetics- of a vehicles appearance is very subjective to say the least, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks 'best' to you. In the final analysis it all come down to; 85% preparation, 5% product, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ‘guy’ of the beholder

Research
Research others opinions and products, test them and then make an objective decision based upon factual information not marketing hype or brand loyalty. I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts?

Detailing products
Should work on their real merits, not ‘smoke and mirrors'. Most importantly - choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon, so I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you.

Water Spots
If you look at a highly- magnified cut-away of a base/clear-coat paint system, it resembles a sponge. The resin system is what holds it together; part of the system has been corrosively eaten away that is why acid rain damage is seen as etching or pitting.

The misnomer ‘water spots’ are caused by a moderate to high alkaline or acidic solution, both of which can cause paint discolouration, surface etching (a concave circular mark and pitting) leaving microscopic surface imperfections and micro pores in the paint film surface that are vulnerable to deterioration, which need to be removed and naturalized as soon as possible.

There are two categories of water spot-
a) Stage One Corrosion [: defined as a surface with light to moderate corrosion damage to the paint surface]

b) Stage Two Corrosion [: definition when the dirt/corrosion deposits are no longer on the surface but have started to break down the molecular structure, leaving an etched or white haze on the surface after the stain has been removed, with moderate to serious paint damage]

a) Surface water spots- (Stage One Corrosion) alkaline watermarks consist of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) both of which are basic (alkaline pH 10) that alight on the surface; ultra violet (heat) radiation (UVR) will leave a white ‘water mark’, the minute crystals bond to the surface, they will not wash off as they are insoluble and if left for any length of time they will etch the paint film surface leaving a concave circular mark, remove surface deposits with detailer’s clay and an acetic acid pH 2.0 (vinegar) to naturalise the alkaline

b) Below surface (etched) acidic spots- (Stage Two Corrosion ) are caused by an aggressive alkaline or an acidic solution (acid rain, bird excrement or industrial fallout) causing a chemical reaction, if left for any length of time they will etch the paint film surface leaving a concave circular mark. Unlike water spots which typically have a white outline of the spot, acid rain etching is smaller and you can see the damage in the clear coat. Etched acid rain spots are one of the most difficult paint defects to remove so be patient as it will probably take more then one attempt to remove them. Acid spots require an abrasive polish to level the surface (some stubborn marks may require wet sanding) and an alkaline solution to neutralize them, simply rinsing a vehicle with deionised water or tap water activates / reactivates the acid concentrates.

Products - A B C Decontamination / Neutralization system - Automotive International - Valugard Product Line (See also Industrial fall out (IFO) Acid rain and Reactivity)

sstg

iTrader: (5)

If the paint can be rectified by chemical means then this is the answer; not abrasive polishing. Using the correct chemical cleaners will dissolve the contaminants rather than abrading the paint. With all cleaning products (especially solvents) always test a small inconspicuous area first to ensure it won't discolour, stain or etch the surface, and ensure that the pH of the product is suitable for the material After the paint surface has been subjected to a chemical cleaning its protective layer (s) have been removed and the paint surface left without protection, so it is very important that a polymer and / or Carnauba wax protection be applied immediately

Always use the least abrasive product first-
1.Use a paint surface cleaner (Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner)
2.Try to dissolve the alkaline-based, surface/etched mineral water deposits try one or more of the following;
3.Use a 2:1 or stronger solution of distilled water/distilled white vinegar (Acetic acid)
4.Try a 2:1 solution of distilled water/Isopropyl Alcohol (adjust ratio as required)
5.Or equal parts distilled water/distilled white vinegar/Isopropyl alcohol.
6.Clean the effected surface with Klasse All-In-One or Zaino Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner
7.Use detailing clay to remove any `hard' surface granules
8.Use a machine polish (Optimum Polish, Optimum Compound) and a cutting (LC White, Orange or Yellow) foam pad (speed # 4- 5.0) to level the surface
9.For Ceramiclear or other hard clear coats substitute Menzerna for machine polish; Super Intensive Polish / Nano Polish (105FF) or Final Finish Polish (106FA)
10.Use the least aggressive polish/foam pad first, if this doesn’t remove the problem step-up to a more aggressive polish / foam pad set-up
11.Wet-sand with 2000, 2500 or 3000 grit finishing paper

1a) Removing surface (Stage One Corrosion) –

Methodology
•Use detailing clay to remove any `hard' surface granules
•Use a paint surface cleaner (Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner)
•Dissolve the alkaline-based, surface/etched mineral water deposits try one or more of the following;
a) Use a 2:1 solution of distilled water/distilled white vinegar (Acetic acid)
b) Try 2:1 solution of distilled water/Isopropyl Alcohol (adjust ratio as required)
c) Or equal parts distilled water/distilled white vinegar/Isopropyl alcohol.
Allow chemical solution sufficient dwell time (5-10 minutes)
•Use a clean spray bottle and 100% cotton Micro fibre cloth to apply the solution to the surface
•Or soak a first aid gauze pad with the vinegar/ water solution, this will help it stay in place during the necessary dwell time, 5-10 minutes) wipe off any residue from surface and dry with a damp waffle weave towel
•Use a clean spray bottle and 100% cotton micro fibre cloth to apply the solution to the paint surface
•Wipe off any residue from the surface and dry with a damp waffle weave towel
•If any `water marks' remain apply distilled white vinegar or Isopropyl alcohol un-diluted to a 100% cotton micro fibre towel, using a medium/heavy pressure on surface, for stubborn spots use an abrasive polish as in 1b)

Products- Danase Water Spot Remover easily removes hard water spots and calcium deposits that etch the surface. Safely bring back and rejuvenate the finish on your painted, clear coated, or glass surfaces with Danase Water Spot Remover.

1b) Removing etched below surface (Stage Two Corrosion)-

Methodology
•These can be removed by using detailer's clay to remove any hardened surface deposits
•Then using a machine polish ( Optimum Polish, Optimum Compound, Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner or Klasse All-In-One ) and a cutting (LC Orange or Yellow) foam pad (speed # 4-5.0 / 1200 RPM ) to level the surface (use the least aggressive polish/foam pad first, if this doesn’t remove the problem step-up to a more aggressive set-up)
•Work on a very small area at a time (2-foot x 2-foot) until the polish has run out
•Repeat this process two or three times, as necessary
•Reapply surface protection once spots have been removed.
•If none of the above methods remove the etched water spots consider wet-sanding the paint finish (See also Wet Sanding)

1c) To neutralise acid water spots using a polish or compound will remove the etching and the indentations, the surface should then be neutralised A B C Decontamination / Neutralization system (http:// Automotive International - Valugard Product Line) a safe alkaline wash and neutralizing system, this three part system comprises;

A-Acid Neutralizer, B-Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailers clay to remove ‘water spots’) and C- Surface Conditioner with a pH of 7.0, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination and neutralizes any residual acid from the painted finish. (See also Acid Rain & Reactivity)

Notes:
Synthetic steel or bronze wool whatever the grade can leave micro-scratches in the glass, which then become impregnated with road dirt, grit and grime, causing a clouding the glass over time, which impairs visibility.

Do not use abrasive cleaner; glass polish or any grade synthetic steel wool on after market-tinted glass or you will probably scratch the surface.

For deeply etched water spots (> 0.004 Mil) in the windshield surface, do not attempt to polish them out, consult an automotive windshield vendor as glass or plastic used on later model cars is soft and thin (this may vary by manufacturer) due to weight / cost savings by vehicle manufactures and polishing could cause surface to become badly scratched, stressed or cracked.

Be cautious with polishes that contain abrasives like aluminium or cerium oxide as they have the potential to damage glass beyond repair.
Some windshields and mirrors have a tinted plastic coating or a blue tint that will scratch or be damaged, only use a glass polish (not synthetic steel or bronze wool) on uncoated glass.


Information resource

Automotive Detailing Inside & Out; a Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist– by Jon Miller


© TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved


Detailing Articles
This is one of is one of a series of unbiased and informative, knowledge based, subject specific articles, which are dedicated to the automotive detailing enthusiast or professional detailer in search of development and further education

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KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

Now im seriously depressed... This is taken from A BMW forum.. The guy had the same issues as me..
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok came back from a very high end body shop. They wetsanded with 1000-2000 and buffed with everything they got

ZERO improvment the car needs to be repainted and BMW dealer is aware and will cover it.

I am very pissed the car will be out of service for at least 4 weeks and I hate having my cars in the body shop they always get overspray and come back nasty

My roof, hood and trunk will need to be paint stripped to metal. They also said since my color is metalic black they need to blend fenders and all


I dont know if i want to go this crazy. What would you guys do? The hood and trunk bothers me most, roof i cant see and I just dont want me car all repainted and botched up.

ben77

iTrader: (1)

damn glad I dont live where you do lol

KrisXpc

iTrader: (13)

You live on Mercury?

Water spots come from water.