View Poll Results: Alto Red Eagle clutches Vs. Borg warner Hi Energy
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Borg warner Hi energy VS Alto red eagle Clutches
12-15-2009, 07:15 PM
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Borg warner Hi energy VS Alto red eagle Clutches Ok guys I am interested in your opinions on The above clutches. I am in favor of the red altos but would like to know everyones eperiance and thoughts on the two of them.
11-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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REs couldn't take abuse (two sets) without damage, BWs held great... same aggressive driving in my old C10 (5.3L/4L65E). Same install method. Luck of the draw or what? LOL
11-07-2010, 11:30 AM
#6
Dana from Probuilt has an interesting story about these two.
Said Gil Younger, founder of TransGo, told him to take a borg warner green and an alto red, dip them in trans fluid for a second and see what happens.
The borg warner green absorbs a lot of fluid while more drips off the alto red.
The more fluid a clutch disc can hold the cooler it will run and will be more resistant to burning under hard use, especially when thinner plates are used to fit more discs in the set.
Said Gil Younger, founder of TransGo, told him to take a borg warner green and an alto red, dip them in trans fluid for a second and see what happens.
The borg warner green absorbs a lot of fluid while more drips off the alto red.
The more fluid a clutch disc can hold the cooler it will run and will be more resistant to burning under hard use, especially when thinner plates are used to fit more discs in the set.
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11-08-2010, 11:05 AM
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I use the BW high energy I have had good luck with the 8 stack in the 3-4 setup using the thin steels with .018 installed clearance with the stock PP and snap ring. Have this setup running in numerous 10 sec and even 2 9sec vettes. I also use the carbon band over the RE band. The stock HE clutches are damn good clutch you just need more of them and the clearances set right. I use this etup for my HP builds and I will use the Z-pack for my HD builds.
11-08-2010, 02:01 PM
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I use the BW high energy I have had good luck with the 8 stack in the 3-4 setup using the thin steels with .018 installed clearance with the stock PP and snap ring. Have this setup running in numerous 10 sec and even 2 9sec vettes. I also use the carbon band over the RE band. The stock HE clutches are damn good clutch you just need more of them and the clearances set right. I use this etup for my HP builds and I will use the Z-pack for my HD builds.
11-10-2010, 06:24 AM
#11
I had 3 reps from Raybestos in the other day that just stopped into say hi. Wanted to see our facility and also to talk product. Keep in mind I have been doing this for 20yrs this month.
He asked what we were using for clutches and I told BW's is what I normally use. He mentioned the Z pack and my opinion on it is I do not like the thickness that the friction material is mounted to the plates. He said it really is not a problem because of its design. I said really........ went over to a shelf and grabbed a few sets that we took out of units. I said here look at how the clutch material is wearing funny and also the steel material look like a damn slinky! Quickly after that he mention using a different line of their product for frictions.
My point to them was that at the end of the day a friction is what it is. It either works and lasts or it don't. Simply put! My opinion is what it is. I feel that you need steels to support the clutches. The alto pack's in most cases have you using thin steels to add friction plates and that goes right back to my opinion on the zpack. You need something to help with the heat.
I have been using Borgs while I have worked at FLT and the last shop they were big Raybestos fans. However I found that to make either of the clutches last a good amount of time the steel plates and pressure plates were the key to either making a good 7 or 8 clutch setup. Also the over all clutch clearance is very important here.
I use .062 4l65E HE frictions with .080 Kolene steels and have had great success with this pack. I make my adjustments for clutch clearance either by installing a thicker friction(.080 or .067) or by changing the apply plate(two thickness plates) or one of the 4 pressure plates we keep in stock. With using this and setting the clutch clearance between .015-.025 dry it seems to work pretty well for us.
I will suggest using the 7-cs kit that comes in the HD-2 kit and also making sure that you have a solid hydraulic built unit for the success of your build. After all clutches are just part of the build. Best of luck. Vince
He asked what we were using for clutches and I told BW's is what I normally use. He mentioned the Z pack and my opinion on it is I do not like the thickness that the friction material is mounted to the plates. He said it really is not a problem because of its design. I said really........ went over to a shelf and grabbed a few sets that we took out of units. I said here look at how the clutch material is wearing funny and also the steel material look like a damn slinky! Quickly after that he mention using a different line of their product for frictions.
My point to them was that at the end of the day a friction is what it is. It either works and lasts or it don't. Simply put! My opinion is what it is. I feel that you need steels to support the clutches. The alto pack's in most cases have you using thin steels to add friction plates and that goes right back to my opinion on the zpack. You need something to help with the heat.
I have been using Borgs while I have worked at FLT and the last shop they were big Raybestos fans. However I found that to make either of the clutches last a good amount of time the steel plates and pressure plates were the key to either making a good 7 or 8 clutch setup. Also the over all clutch clearance is very important here.
I use .062 4l65E HE frictions with .080 Kolene steels and have had great success with this pack. I make my adjustments for clutch clearance either by installing a thicker friction(.080 or .067) or by changing the apply plate(two thickness plates) or one of the 4 pressure plates we keep in stock. With using this and setting the clutch clearance between .015-.025 dry it seems to work pretty well for us.
I will suggest using the 7-cs kit that comes in the HD-2 kit and also making sure that you have a solid hydraulic built unit for the success of your build. After all clutches are just part of the build. Best of luck. Vince
11-10-2010, 08:12 AM
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Does the 4l60e just physically have no room for a larger clutch pack or hub? It seems like if there was a fix for the 3/4 clutch pack it would be a great trans.
11-10-2010, 11:36 AM
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I had 3 reps from Raybestos in the other day that just stopped into say hi. Wanted to see our facility and also to talk product. Keep in mind I have been doing this for 20yrs this month.
He asked what we were using for clutches and I told BW's is what I normally use. He mentioned the Z pack and my opinion on it is I do not like the thickness that the friction material is mounted to the plates. He said it really is not a problem because of its design. I said really........ went over to a shelf and grabbed a few sets that we took out of units. I said here look at how the clutch material is wearing funny and also the steel material look like a damn slinky! Quickly after that he mention using a different line of their product for frictions.
My point to them was that at the end of the day a friction is what it is. It either works and lasts or it don't. Simply put! My opinion is what it is. I feel that you need steels to support the clutches. The alto pack's in most cases have you using thin steels to add friction plates and that goes right back to my opinion on the zpack. You need something to help with the heat.
I have been using Borgs while I have worked at FLT and the last shop they were big Raybestos fans. However I found that to make either of the clutches last a good amount of time the steel plates and pressure plates were the key to either making a good 7 or 8 clutch setup. Also the over all clutch clearance is very important here.
I use .062 4l65E HE frictions with .080 Kolene steels and have had great success with this pack. I make my adjustments for clutch clearance either by installing a thicker friction(.080 or .067) or by changing the apply plate(two thickness plates) or one of the 4 pressure plates we keep in stock. With using this and setting the clutch clearance between .015-.025 dry it seems to work pretty well for us.
I will suggest using the 7-cs kit that comes in the HD-2 kit and also making sure that you have a solid hydraulic built unit for the success of your build. After all clutches are just part of the build. Best of luck. Vince
He asked what we were using for clutches and I told BW's is what I normally use. He mentioned the Z pack and my opinion on it is I do not like the thickness that the friction material is mounted to the plates. He said it really is not a problem because of its design. I said really........ went over to a shelf and grabbed a few sets that we took out of units. I said here look at how the clutch material is wearing funny and also the steel material look like a damn slinky! Quickly after that he mention using a different line of their product for frictions.
My point to them was that at the end of the day a friction is what it is. It either works and lasts or it don't. Simply put! My opinion is what it is. I feel that you need steels to support the clutches. The alto pack's in most cases have you using thin steels to add friction plates and that goes right back to my opinion on the zpack. You need something to help with the heat.
I have been using Borgs while I have worked at FLT and the last shop they were big Raybestos fans. However I found that to make either of the clutches last a good amount of time the steel plates and pressure plates were the key to either making a good 7 or 8 clutch setup. Also the over all clutch clearance is very important here.
I use .062 4l65E HE frictions with .080 Kolene steels and have had great success with this pack. I make my adjustments for clutch clearance either by installing a thicker friction(.080 or .067) or by changing the apply plate(two thickness plates) or one of the 4 pressure plates we keep in stock. With using this and setting the clutch clearance between .015-.025 dry it seems to work pretty well for us.
I will suggest using the 7-cs kit that comes in the HD-2 kit and also making sure that you have a solid hydraulic built unit for the success of your build. After all clutches are just part of the build. Best of luck. Vince
11-13-2010, 04:22 PM
#15
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Vince, Predator,....can you give me some advice. I've had my 4l65e rebuilt twice this year because of 3-4 clutches. I'm putting 600 wtq through them and in 4th it just wont hold. I could stop driving it like that, DD, but I thought with this latest build I would be able to enjoy my rides to work. Trans dude thought I was torching them because the input drum was flexing and leaking so he put in aftermarket: Input shaft, Wide band and drum, beast sun shell, wide extra/roller sprag.....but I slipped 3-4 the first day I drove it.
He only used 6 frictions, which pisses me off. He said heat transfer when the 3-4 are not in use may be a problem.....I can't remember the brand clutch he used. I'll find out Mon.
Last spring I had Raybestos stage 1 z-pack installed and they lasted 6 months. On the stock line pressure.
This latest guy said he turned the pressure up a bit. I have 205 in forward and 250 in reverse. He is looking for a way to get 250 in forward without raising reverse to make the 3-4 hold.
Which clutches for 600 wtq daily driver: Raybestos blue, stage 1 z-pack, Alto read eagle, Borg Warner high energy.
Any input? Which clutch, how many, line pressure.
He only used 6 frictions, which pisses me off. He said heat transfer when the 3-4 are not in use may be a problem.....I can't remember the brand clutch he used. I'll find out Mon.
Last spring I had Raybestos stage 1 z-pack installed and they lasted 6 months. On the stock line pressure.
This latest guy said he turned the pressure up a bit. I have 205 in forward and 250 in reverse. He is looking for a way to get 250 in forward without raising reverse to make the 3-4 hold.
Which clutches for 600 wtq daily driver: Raybestos blue, stage 1 z-pack, Alto read eagle, Borg Warner high energy.
Any input? Which clutch, how many, line pressure.
Last edited by ericwilloughby; 11-13-2010 at 05:50 PM.
11-13-2010, 05:44 PM
#16
11-13-2010, 05:56 PM
#17
TECH Regular
Thanks. I don't think I've tried that clutch yet.
I went to this guy this time because he builds race trans and is a sponsor at our track. I was willing to pay him double what I paid the last guy because he is supposed to have experiance with this level of power. Hasn't work out to well for me. But for what I paid I'll make him do it over again.
I went to this guy this time because he builds race trans and is a sponsor at our track. I was willing to pay him double what I paid the last guy because he is supposed to have experiance with this level of power. Hasn't work out to well for me. But for what I paid I'll make him do it over again.
