never heard any of this, they make rack and pinions? so your saying the F body pan will work if i go with a front steer? no way will i go with a rear steer, ill sell all my stuff and go with another vendor before i do that.
If you didn't know about BRP's front steer rack, what front steer "set-up" do you know about?
I am only aware of the BRP so-called kit that is a front steer, Unisteer which is a rear steer, and Flaming River which is a rear steer. Unless you are swaping in an aftermarket subframe, or doing a homemade custom, I don't know of any other front steer kits. Can you enlighten us..?...
BTW, why are you so driven to not go rear steer?
__________________ '69Maro...LS1,4L60e, ... LS1 is alive 7/07 now on to brakes, suspension,steering,rear axle,...the easy stuff
What tranny are you planning on using? I have a BRP kit and it is about 1.5 inches lower than the crossmember. I have a 4l70 with a deep pan and it is not much lower than that if any and my headers. If you are going with a auto tranny you should be able to run a CTS pan with the motor pushed back some. I could move my motor back with my notch about another 1.5 inches and still use the compressor in the stock location. The LH8 pan also is angled down in the front so if you chopped it and rewelded it you shouldn't even lose a 1/2 quart capacity.
If you didn't know about BRP's front steer rack, what front steer "set-up" do you know about?
I am only aware of the BRP so-called kit that is a front steer, Unisteer which is a rear steer, and Flaming River which is a rear steer. Unless you are swaping in an aftermarket subframe, or doing a homemade custom, I don't know of any other front steer kits. Can you enlighten us..?...
BTW, why are you so driven to not go rear steer?
im not driven against rear steer, i meant to say no way will i go with a front steer, most kits ive scene arent worth a crap, the only ones that are nice come in a complete front clip, once i switched to ATS spindles and SPC upper arms the bump steer is damn near gone, i currently have a rack and pinion thats a combination of a chevy lumina with chevette tie rod ends and some other cutsom stuff, this was all created by a company called steeroids.
This has since been removed and a lee box has been ordered.
GHOST, I ordered a Autokraft pan with their motor mounts just in case. That LH8 pan hangs way to low, The rack and pinion i have hangs low off of the crossmember and i have road scraps to prove it. This LH8 pans hangs lower than it, once I saw this it was time to get rid of it.
I m not upset at all, seams these pans are a hot thing so Ill pass it on to the next guy that can make it work
Yea no prob everybody has to do what they think is best. My decision was based on a number of factors with a major factor being the compressor in the stock location and the pan being structural. I even took the pan over a modified F-body pan which I had. My decision not to go with the aftermarket pans like the autokraft pan is that they are not structural like the GM pans. Nobody seems to think this is an issue and it may be nothing but to me it raises questions on how long the motor will last, vibration issues, and horsepower loss, all due to stiffness that the original pan provides that is not there with those pans. The motors were designed with the pans being structural members to tie into the trannies. It seems that everybody is worried about taking the motor out by hitting something. The pan, tranny pan, exhaust, rear pumpkin, etc all hang lower than the frame. I can tell everybody this. My car is lowered 2 inches with a hotchkis/GW setup and it is still nowhere near the minimum clearance my Beemer has with a stock suspension.
im not driven against rear steer, i meant to say no way will i go with a front steer, most kits ive scene arent worth a crap, the only ones that are nice come in a complete front clip, once i switched to ATS spindles and SPC upper arms the bump steer is damn near gone, i currently have a rack and pinion thats a combination of a chevy lumina with chevette tie rod ends and some other cutsom stuff, this was all created by a company called steeroids.
This has since been removed and a lee box has been ordered.
Whoops, I forgot about Steeroids.
I totally agree with you about either going with a complete aftermarket clip or go with a LEE box! I was once dead-set on using a r&p untill I bought one.
I'm now using the sc&c Street-Comp Stage 2 Plus package with SPC's LCA and a LEE box.
__________________ '69Maro...LS1,4L60e, ... LS1 is alive 7/07 now on to brakes, suspension,steering,rear axle,...the easy stuff
Yea no prob everybody has to do what they think is best. My decision was based on a number of factors with a major factor being the compressor in the stock location and the pan being structural. I even took the pan over a modified F-body pan which I had. My decision not to go with the aftermarket pans like the autokraft pan is that they are not structural like the GM pans. Nobody seems to think this is an issue and it may be nothing but to me it raises questions on how long the motor will last, vibration issues, and horsepower loss, all due to stiffness that the original pan provides that is not there with those pans. The motors were designed with the pans being structural members to tie into the trannies. It seems that everybody is worried about taking the motor out by hitting something. The pan, tranny pan, exhaust, rear pumpkin, etc all hang lower than the frame. I can tell everybody this. My car is lowered 2 inches with a hotchkis/GW setup and it is still nowhere near the minimum clearance my Beemer has with a stock suspension.
i wouldnt argue with you but im still alot lower than you, seeing my rack take the hits on the ground and seeing the pan 1" lower than it i dont want to take my chances with an aluminum pan..
The structural aspect of the pan has no effect on the life or power of the motor. It is just there to stiffen the joint between the motor and transmission. In reality the only point to that is to cut down on noise and vibration. The really fast f-body guys usually swap to a TH400 transmission anyway which does not use the bolts on the oilpan. Structurally the oil pan does not really stiffen the block at all.
__________________ 85 El Camino SS black and silver, factory buckets.
5.3L/4l60E 3.73 posi 1980 Chevette 4.3L v6/4l60e www.fquick.com/G-Body
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodder
"possible" is a relative term around here... anythingis possible. It's "possible" to put a whole K3500 4x4 dually truck rolling chassis under a brand new Mini body. Is it reasonable? No. Does it make sense? No. Is it possible? Yes.
just got my autokraft pan in and decided to buy there motor mounts just in case, Iam still having brp build my headers if i decide to use the autokraft mounts im hoping i can still use the brp/headman headers....if not ill be sending them back
QUOTE]The structural aspect of the pan has no effect on the life or power of the motor. It is just there to stiffen the joint between the motor and transmission. In reality the only point to that is to cut down on noise and vibration. The really fast f-body guys usually swap to a TH400 transmission anyway which does not use the bolts on the oilpan. Structurally the oil pan does not really stiffen the block at all.[/quote]
By definition if something is a structural member it will carry a load. If you remove the load carrying device it has to go somewhere else. Everything I have read about the development of the motor has stated that when the motor was designed the pan was designed as a structural member to help with the motors rigidity and strength of the bottom end. Tying it into the transmission is one aspect of it but not the entire picture. If they did not need it a stamped metal pan is a lot cheaper to make for thousands of motors. Maybe it is not needed on a iron block due to added stiffness but for an aluminum block I will keep it as that.
Not positive of the specifics on the Autokraft pan, however I know many of the aftermarket pans have a 3/16" or 1/4" steel rail around the top that helps to maintain the structure that the stock pans provide. Might not be quite as good as the stock pan but it is certainly much better than just some stamped steel pan.
..... If they did not need it a stamped metal pan is a lot cheaper to make for thousands of motors. Maybe it is not needed on a iron block due to added stiffness but for an aluminum block I will keep it as that.
Sheet metal does not absorb sound as well as cast aluminum. The reason for the cast aluminum pan (and it's bolt connection to the transmission) is to reduce the NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) characteristics of the engine and transmission. NVH is at the top of any powertrain engineer's priority list. A lot of other things (power and torque included) will be sacrificed before they allow an increase of NVH.
There are plenty of LS engines running around, making stupid power, with sheet metal pans and no bolts connecting it to the transmission. I have yet to hear of an engine failure caused by the absence of the cast aluminum pan.
now on to brakes, suspension,steering,rear axle,...the easy stuff
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