LSx (L33) / T56 in lightweight kit car..

spartanv8 · 10-13-2009, 12:54 PM

I'm building a tube frame chassis around the LSx motor and T56 transmission. My current budget is guiding me towards the L33 truck motor. My debate is between the L33 and the LS1...

With the L33, I'll need to swap to a camaro or Vette oil pan, swap to an LS1 intake manifold, injectors, fuel rails, and wiring harness. Probably makes sense to go with an LS1 computer at that point as well. The accessories on the front of the motor hang out an extra 5/8", not too big a deal, but space is always at a premium. To switch anything in the accessory drive to camaro or corvette parts, I'd have to switch them all, since the pulleys won't line up. I want to use the factory mounting brackets. L33 cost, 50k-100k miles, $800-$1000 range. Now add oil pan, intake, injectors, harness, computer, etc.. and we're approaching a cheap LS1 motor..

With the LS1, most of that work is already done, except that the motor was in a camaro or corvette, and was probably already beat to death. Higher mileage 80k to 100k examples seem to sell in the $1500-$2500 range, sorta pricey.

I could live with the truck intake/fuel system if I had to, that would save a considerable amount, but is there anything I'm missing here?
EDIT: DBW throttle body to std throttle body for one, whoops
EDIT: will also need the LS1 flywheel to use the T56...

Thanks!

I'm just getting into this project, and want to be as informed as possible...
www.spartanv8.com

modracer33 · 10-13-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanv8

I'm building a tube frame chassis around the LSx motor and T56 transmission. My current budget is guiding me towards the L33 truck motor. My debate is between the L33 and the LS1...

With the L33, I'll need to swap to a camaro or Vette oil pan, swap to an LS1 intake manifold, injectors, fuel rails, and wiring harness. Probably makes sense to go with an LS1 computer at that point as well. The accessories on the front of the motor hang out an extra 5/8", not too big a deal, but space is always at a premium. To switch anything in the accessory drive to camaro or corvette parts, I'd have to switch them all, since the pulleys won't line up. I want to use the factory mounting brackets. L33 cost, 50k-100k miles, $800-$1000 range. Now add oil pan, intake, injectors, harness, computer, etc.. and we're approaching a cheap LS1 motor..

With the LS1, most of that work is already done, except that the motor was in a camaro or corvette, and was probably already beat to death. Higher mileage 80k to 100k examples seem to sell in the $1500-$2500 range, sorta pricey.

I could live with the truck intake/fuel system if I had to, that would save a considerable amount, but is there anything I'm missing here?
EDIT: DBW throttle body to std throttle body for one, whoops
EDIT: will also need the LS1 flywheel to use the T56...

Thanks!

I'm just getting into this project, and want to be as informed as possible...
www.spartanv8.com

For the money the L33 was the way to go.

$1000 for the motor w29kmiles
$55 for an LS1 Intake off ebay
$85 for LS2 Fuel rail off ebay
$55 for 24# fuel Injectors (optional for you)
$75 for C5 Batwing Oil Pan
$185 for CTS-V water pump Amazon (optional for you as your build might allow the truck waterpump.)
Total $1,455

I've got lot's of other stuff going on but that's the basic package. Enough to get you going.

I kept the DBW and got a TAC and pedal for less than $200. Th DBW throttle mounts up to the LS1 intake. Clutch, Slave and Flywheel will run a few bucks. I got myT56 with all that for $800 needing a rebuild and then bought another non-working T56 for $500 for the parts I need to build one unit.

Take your time looking around. Deals can be found.

Here is my build:
L33 Miata

spartanv8 · 10-13-2009, 08:35 PM

The miata looks fun.. I've got an 84 Rx7 with a small block, so I can relate

I'm looking at an L33 with 80k on it for $1000, or $1150 with accessories, starter, computer, and harness.. Sounds like I'm overpaying and should pass that one up.

Saw someone else had bought a motor that was in a fire, for like 300 bucks, with melted intake and such. Which works out fine since they went to an LS1 intake.. I'd just be hesitant going that route, tough to know how bad the fire was, if it cooked anything in the motor, gaskets, seals etc..

What came with your motor for a grand? Complete pullout? harness, computer..? Why did you go to the CTS-v wp? Moved all the accessories closer? So you're using the truck ecm, truck harness, and chopping the harness to match the LS1 injectors?

I had a T56 with everything I needed for $900, but turned out to be some jerk scam artist.. Luckily I got my $$ back

Sorry for the 20 questions, but I think this is almost the identical route I'll be going, so I'm terribly curious! Thanks!

spartanv8 · 10-13-2009, 08:45 PM

Here's a peek at what I'm building. Granted, a bit rough yet, and some tubes need tweaking... but for the most part, this is the car in its completion :-)

LS1-450 · 10-13-2009, 08:51 PM

+1 on the L33. Look here in the LSX for sale section. You'll find the right L33 for the right price. Can also find intake, oil pan, fuel rail...etc. @ good prices. The L33 is a great LSX engine for the price. An LS6 cam makes is a closer to stock LS1 power as well.

abot316 · 10-13-2009, 08:52 PM

Idk where you live SpartanV8, but check out www.car-part.com, its a data base for the majority of junkyards in North America. I have seen low mileage L33's on there in my state go for $650

spartanv8 · 10-13-2009, 09:05 PM

I'll def. take a look at the for sale section here, see what's around..

I've been looking on car-part.com, its great! (I'm in Cleveland, OH) But, for whatever reason stuff seems overpriced in Ohio (?) compared to say, Kansas, or Oklahoma, TN, VA, TX... pretty much anywhere else is cheaper. Can ship something in, but then its an extra $300 or so for freight. I'll keep looking. =)

gjohnson · 10-14-2009, 12:09 AM

Bought my L33 with 55k miles off of car-parts.com. Had a broken timing chain cover, but got it shipped to my door with a 1 year warranty for $699.

kj598bbc · 10-14-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanv8

I'll def. take a look at the for sale section here, see what's around..

I've been looking on car-part.com, its great! (I'm in Cleveland, OH) But, for whatever reason stuff seems overpriced in Ohio (?) compared to say, Kansas, or Oklahoma, TN, VA, TX... pretty much anywhere else is cheaper. Can ship something in, but then its an extra $300 or so for freight. I'll keep looking. =)

Did you try Cleveland Pik Apart ? I have'nt purchased, but i've got some good quotes.

spartanv8 · 10-14-2009, 01:05 AM

Last time I called Pick-a-part, they quoted me $2250 for an L33 with 32k on it, accessories, wiring, ecu. Or, a mere $2000 for just the engine. I had to try not to laugh.. Everytime I call there for something, they want an arm and a leg.. sometimes 2 legs.

I'll keep looking on car-part, see what turns up. Didn't see any in this forum's for sale section.. Been checking ebay and craigslist as well, we'll see.

Anyone that has bought a motor that had fire damage care to share their experience? I suppose it really just depends on the severity of the fire..

Thanks!

spartanv8 · 10-14-2009, 01:27 PM

Hmm, anybody have carfax?

LS1-450 · 10-14-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanv8

Didn't see any in this forum's for sale section.
Thanks!

Good quality L33's & F-body oil pans are two items that sell like hotcakes on this site. You will have to check @ least a few times a day to find one & it may take a few weeks before a good one is listed. Once listed, an L33 will sell almost immediately. So, keep checking, one will pop up...be first & it will be yours. Make sure that the seller has a few trader rating points & a couple hundred or more posts.

spartanv8 · 10-15-2009, 12:04 AM

I think I've got my L33, 59k, for $725 shipped (Longblock - intake to pan, wiring harness, no accessories).. sounds pretty good to me. Then I'll just need all the accessory drive stuff of a camaro, get an LS1 intake (or LS6!), mod the harness to fit the other style injectors, and get a batwing pan.

Ridiculous that its cheaper to ship in an engine from Wisconsin than go down the road and and pick one up at the local yard..

LS1-450 · 10-15-2009, 11:58 AM

Congrats on the find. Look forward to following the build.

NemeSS · 10-15-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanv8

Last time I called Pick-a-part, they quoted me $2250 for an L33 with 32k on it, accessories, wiring, ecu. Or, a mere $2000 for just the engine. I had to try not to laugh.. Everytime I call there for something, they want an arm and a leg.. sometimes 2 legs.

I'll keep looking on car-part, see what turns up. Didn't see any in this forum's for sale section.. Been checking ebay and craigslist as well, we'll see.

Anyone that has bought a motor that had fire damage care to share their experience? I suppose it really just depends on the severity of the fire..

Thanks!

I have bought and used fire dmage ls motor before, the manifold was melted and so was the driver side valve cover. other than that nothing was wrong with it. rebuilt it and runs now.
i have a c5 ls1 intake manifold fs if need lmk

spartanv8 · 10-15-2009, 02:11 PM

NemeSS, I'm interested in the intake, pm me, or I will when i get a min.. =)

I'll be looking for an F-body or batwing pan as well - any advantage one over the other? This will be primarily a road race car, but will be high G in every direction.

There's some confusion at this yard as to what the deal is with the DBW parts... DBW throttle body on the L33, so there's a DBW pedal. Is there also a separate DBW computer, or is it in the ECM? Can I use this ECM with cable throttle body as well? Help!

Thanks!

LS1-450 · 10-15-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartanv8

I'll be looking for an F-body or batwing pan as well - any advantage one over the other? This will be primarily a road race car, but will be high G in every direction.

There's some confusion at this yard as to what the deal is with the DBW parts... DBW throttle body on the L33, so there's a DBW pedal. Is there also a separate DBW computer, or is it in the ECM? Can I use this ECM with cable throttle body as well? Help!

Thanks!

Batwing, if you can fit it. Plan an an Accusump as well. The combination of the two will provide high G protection from oil flow loss.

The PCM will handle either DBW or DBC. The DBW signal is simply ignored when using drive by cable.

Andy1 · 10-15-2009, 03:39 PM

spartanv8,

Interesting project with a lot of thought into the design. If you have any roadrace setup background, then perhaps consider some adjustability in your suspension design to allow for tuning (not just for the track). It's hard to get it just right fresh off the board (3D model).

For your L33 (good choice, BTW) you might focus on the truck recyclers. Here on the left coast we have A1 Truck Wrecking http://www.a1truckwrecking.com/ which posts their (constantly changing) inventory; they usually have a lot of motor/trans's available at excellent prices. Perhaps you have something similar that's closer to you.

Andy1

spartanv8 · 10-15-2009, 05:21 PM

Batwing looks like its much better baffled... Whats a reasonable price for these, car-part and ebay had them at like $350 ?!

Is the f-body pan any good? It has a windage tray, but no baffles?

Truck pan is just way too deep, I'd be dragging it on the ground.

Andy1, Suspension is fully adjustable =) I'll stick that website in my favorites for next time, thanks!

Next hunt will be for a decent Ls1 T56 swap...

spartanv8 · 10-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Are there any other exhaust manifolds like the LS7 ones?

I had thought that the other C6 manifolds were similar, ie, the outlet just goes straight down at the middle, but evidently not. All the rear facing manifolds put the exhaust to close to my feet and pedals for comfort. I suppose I could switch left and right sides, make them face forward, but then I'm adding lots of bends to the exhaust system

Also, do i need a certain number of posts before I can post or reply in the classifieds section? What gives?