GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

I've been obsessed with getting the engine and t56 as low and far back as possible. To that end I raised the floor of the GTO oil pan as high as I could and still clear at least a 4.125" stroke. Then I cut the ENTIRE front cross support in the middle of the cross member out, something that I havn't seen done before. This required first, reinforcing the bottom of the entire crossmember with 3/16th" plate and then two pieces of 1x1 steel tube between the steering rack mounts. Then I cut out the step at the back of the GTO pan sump so that the back of the sump could go right up against the steering rack.

Modded Crossmember
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/IMG_0733.jpg


Milled pan sitting in engine bay
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC00124.jpg


To give you an idea of how effective all this work is in setting back the engine and trans, here are two pictures of other LS1/S14s:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...LUP1010269.jpg


and mine:
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02097.jpg


My new problem is that the engine sits so low that my GTO oil sump now sits 0.75" below my crossmember. And that's not accounting for the 3/16" that I added to the bottom of the original crossmember!

I did not lower the crossmember relative to the car, and do not plan on doing so. Now I don't know what direction to go with the oil system. I only have a junk LS6 block and havn't started the engine build so I can still go any direction that I want. I'd like to stay away from the weight, complexity, and $$$ of a true dry sump system. I have a used accusump system and originally planned on just staying wet sump, and using the accumulator for a little insurance. But the sump is sittling so low that now I'm worried about ground clearance.

I'm torn between leaving it as it is, modifying the pan to use the LS7 twin pump system, or taking 3/4" out of the bottom of the sump, maybe adding wings and baffles and staying wet sump.

What do you guys thing about those ideas?

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02110.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02109.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02126.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02130.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02095.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02088.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02089.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02090.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02092.jpg



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...d/DSC02091.jpg

5150mechanic

iTrader: (6)

Would a LS2 C6 pan work? Nice pan with baffling.

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

Not even close. I only have 7 or so inches for a rear sump
On the right track though, because the LS2 pan is only 4.75" deep while my GTO pan is just about 6.0" deep.

datboibrad

iTrader: (1)

you did alot of extra work but i suppose it works for you lol. i do think the motor plates are awesome tho.

6techniques

iTrader: (7)

something about that combo makes me want to...

ronald so

iTrader: (1)

Fab works look good. I too, am concerned about the oil pan hanging low. That chassis I'm assuming is for race purpose (hense the hump and stuff being removed) I don't know what you plan on doing with the car or how low it'll sit but i've seen numerous cars damage crossmember's from hitting things in the roadway. I don't know why people keep making those tranny mounts go through the frame rails, no reason too when they have stock mounting holes. (in your case I see you've modified the chassis)

Kamin

his stock tranny mount points still appear to be there, i personally think thats a little extreme just for another inch of movement back for the engine.

i would without a doubt be concerned with the height of the oilpan, ive smacked my crossmember many times on track with my 240.

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

The stock mounting locations on the 240 aren't even parallel with each other. And the one on the drivers side was almost a foot ahead of where the t56 trans mount is. I also cut out and rebuilt the driver side floor so that I could get my momo fia seat lower. Part of the floor and original trans mount on the passenger side will be going next to make a little extra room for 3.5" collectors. Putting the trans mount between the frame rails stiffens things up a bit too, especially if I have room to later turn it into a K-member, and triangulate under there.

Kamin, the fact that you've smacked your stock crossmember is pretty f'n scary to me. Thanx for that info.

A lot of peolple seem to think that I "did too much work" to get my engine and trans where I got it, and I don't understand their thinking. I wanted the crank as close to the steering rack as I could (engine low), and I wanted the engine as far back as I could without having to cut the firewall or pull out the stock defroster. And I didn't want to lower the crossmember because of the effects on the suspension geometry. A little grinding, cutting and welding later it was done. Go big or go home.

ronald so

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to see if I can locate mine as far back as possible. I want as little weight hanging past the front strut towers. I also don't want to modify the chassis (firewall drasticly) to accomodate it. My concept is everything is reversable.

On a side note, we have a guy up here with a ls1 *ASA built 1/400 gm made* and he runs dry sump. his is a race chassis but his oil pan hangs 2" low all the way across.

Slo_240sx

iTrader: (17)

Nice looking Xmember!

Kamin

dont be too afraid

my car is about 4-5 inches lower than factory, but my car isnt a street car so if you arent going that low i would only be marginally concerned.

regardless you have some amazing fab work i didnt give you credit for in the last post. that crossmember is a work of art and i hope mine will look that good.

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

Looking good.

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

Fab work looks pretty good.
Phil

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

I've seen those asa pans around. They are all steel, and I'd relocate the forward scavenge pick up to the front. They use a moroso made pan, and a razor made, two stage, scavenge only pump located where the A/C usually goes. Used they go for about $800 for just the pan and pump, then you have to drop another $450 on an ATI balancer. And if you're lucky you can then find fittings, lines, and a tank for another $400... It adds up. But I did bid on two of em on ebay. You don't see 'em to often though. If I was really a baller I'd just call up Armstrong Race Engineering and be done with it. But I'm just a poor guy with a welder.

Ted J

iTrader: (4)

I looked into going that route and if it's a similar set up to what I was looking into doing that set up is made for going fast and turning left when it comes to what it was designed for it scavages the oil out of the right rear part of the pan. It might be a different set up that I was looking into but when I spoke with some people they said that for a road race or similar set up they would suggest at least 3 stages of scavaging of the oil and one stage of pressure and not to have it scavage the oil just from the right rear of the pan. I think that set up above only has like one stage for pump and one stage for scavaging (maybe it has more but the set up I was looking at only had one stage for each) and upgrading to a more stages of scavaging wans't cheap. You could obviouslly modify the pan to have more areas for scavaging but when I found out that it wasn't going to be cheap to get the pump upgraded to what was needed I opted to just run an extra quart of oil in the engine for insurance and also mount the engine a little higher but as far back as possible.

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

I'm leaning towards a complete dry sump set up this week... Does anyone know what it takes to not run the stock oil pump? Many of the aftermarket (heck even the LS7) dry sump systems retain a stock style, oil pump behind the timing cover. I'm afraid there's a reason...

If I ran an external oil supply pump, what modifications are necessary behind the timing cover when removing the stock oil pump? Any? A spacer for the crank seal?

xXxSilveradoxXx

iTrader: (5)

I'm in somewhat of the same boat as you. I'm currently figuring out my dry sump setup. I'm running a 4-Stage Scavenge/Pressure pump.

daniel6718

iTrader: (36)

kinda skipped through...bu7t why not shoten the height of the gto pan =and kick it out on the sides some(by cutting the crossmember wider than you have it

GIGAPUNK

iTrader: (2)

xXxSilveradoxXx, That's exactly what I'm leaning towards! Please keep us updated on what you learn!


Daniel, I definietly could shorten, and maybe add side sumps to the GTO pan. Probably without even modifying the crossmember anymore. I'm just concerned about road racing with a shallow wet sump (even thought I'd be running an accusump). Do you think that I'm just being paranoid?