So i hit the junk yard picked up front knuckles and after figuring out what i thought would work would not, at least not with out a lot of machining.
The original plan was to use grand prix knuckles with s10 hubs. s10 hubs have bearing pilot hole about 1/8 to big. so i figured i had have them turned down. (there is plenty material.) then they would have to be re drilled to the proper bolt pattern, for the wheels, then they would need the mounting holes welded and re drilled to match the steering knuckle. id be 300to 400 dollars into bearings per side. but hey i knew this going in.
I got home with knuckles and is aparant very soon that those knuckles would work but would be far from idea. The mounting location for the tie rod was too high in relation to the ball joint. I knew it would not be perfect. My plan was to use bump steer correction tie rods to get them where i need them. they would need to be about three inches with this knuckle that just sounds like a snapped tie rod to me.
So back to the junk yard. 05 malibus use a very similar design but the tie rod mounting point is much lower. problem solved right? well not wanting to spend $600+ on bearing i thought why not just use hub assemblies from the malibu and have the outer tulip switched from a malibu cv axle to a s10 cv axle. ( still believe this would have worked.) they appear identical.
I got to thinking (not good, thats how i got myself in this project in the first place, I have an enlarged medulla-bad-idea) s10s where designed way before any of the stuff I have been looking at for hub assemblies, so why not try one from that era? long story short 88 cutlass fwd with hd brakes has a hub assembly that not only has the proper bolt pattern for an 05 malibu knuckle, and the proper hub pilot size, and 27 spline axle that s10 use, and 5x115 bolt pattern which is close enough to 4x114.3 to fit my wheels and brake rotors. gotta love when engineers don't redesign stuff for no reason, and gm's ridiculous parts interchangeability
On this first day of the 6th month of 2008 A.D. The automotive gods have chosen to shine on me.
On a side note every response here has been positive same with syty/sgt, on the Nissan forum 1 reply and it was negative.
__________________ For sale TC76 (new) .81 ar $900 shipped
don't you love that feeling when all those parts from different eras and cars just seem to be made just for your project ?? a fuzzy feeling it is indeed
if you could source some gtr knuckles it would probably make the configuring of your awd system a little easier since they're closer to the stock 240 knuckles. also iirc full race was offering awd conversions for 240's w/ full skyline running gear, so you may want to look around and see what else is out there as far as the running gear is concerned. This will most certaily be a badass.
This is a pretty cool project, nice work. Definitely subscribing to this one.
__________________ 1988 Mazda RX7 - Forged 347" LS1/T56 - Wiseco pistons, Callies Rods, Stage III heads, TC76 Turbo, Alkycontrol, Lingenfelter 2 Step, Custom C4 Dana36 rear, 2950 lbs.
Thanks to Bob and Drew @ EPP, Ryan @ Lingenfelter, BeasTT Performance and JPH!
2006 Crew: Team Spiderman/Hulk Top Fuel Motorcycle
10 Time World Champions, World Record Holders for 1/4 E/T: 5.746 Seconds
yeah gtr knuckles were the obvious choice but would actually be more work. gtr and s13 have completely different front suspensions. rears are basically the same. I've spent quit abit on my current suspension set up. to switch to a gtr set would require new coil overs and adding an upper control arm. you could argue that i would then have a superior suspension? Ever tried chasing a well set-up Porsche at the track? they do just fine with front struts and multilink rear. also getting s10 axles to gtr hub assemblies would not be easy. Ive looked at many options from an lsx mated to a gtr transmission to using a gtr front axle to g35 awd front diff to bmw awd front diff . any set could be made to work but in the end it came down to availability, cost, and strength. gtr uses 160mm 6.3" front ring vs 7.2 for s10.
have you looked at the design of the awd system on the holden HSV coupe 4..they did similiar to the rb26 in that extra clearance is made by pushing the front diff axle up into the oil pan area..then you could still have a crossmember joining the frame rails..without a crossmember how are you going to mount a steering rack?
craigbb has a good idea there, the holden pan has the diff built in , plus you can get a transfer case from the same car that would be smaller and lighter than a truck one to mate to the tranny you have.
only down side if i remeber correctly is that the car will have to be rear steer , i.e. the rack would be behind the front axle centerline.
actually holden stuff would have been great. but tough to come by. 240sx stock is rear steer. it will be front steer when im done. holden stuff is simular to tbss oil pan in actuality it passes through the oil pan, but it is not as close to the crank as I would like. part of my oil pan is so close to the crank the windagetray had to be cut out. I also had to cut an ear off of the block (square untapped, unused boss down by the oil pan)
the plan is put the rack in front of the diff.
again the parts choice was largely due to what available.
the trasfercase is a bit of weight but its automatic in its operation. no electronic clutches to figure out. and all the weight is right in the middle of the car. my car weighed under 2700 pounds to start id be surprised if I added 300lbs, and most of the added weight well be between the axles. if I over shoot 3000lbs, I have excuse for carbon doors and trunk
__________________ For sale TC76 (new) .81 ar $900 shipped
are you going for a manual or auto box?? i know a guys tying to fit 4WD to a corvette C4 (and then turn it into a kit). i cna PM you his email/website if you want??
any pics of other systems would be great. keep the ideas coming. but for the most part my hard part are already in the car. (differential) i will need to move it 1/2 from the current set up but its no big deal. I'm getting a bit of axle bind.
I don't know and cant find what the holden uses for a t case but its probably not much smaller than a bravada t case. the holden has more power plus weighs probably just as much.
__________________ For sale TC76 (new) .81 ar $900 shipped
You probably thought about it, but have you looked at the AWD setup that is used in the Trailblazer SS? That pan is setup for one side of the front axle to pass through if I remember correctly.
the guy im talking about is useing Trailblazer stuff. i have seen it done to another corvette with a turboed SBC used in Poland. worked pretty well for them! lol
any plans on making a kit out of this?? would be nice to get a sports type car that ran a turboed V8 and 4WD!
Road racing, not so much. You might want to revisit your front diff choices as the GM front diffs are far from performance oriented in that realm. Further, with a 4L80 and transfercase and turbo, your gonna be putting on a bit of poundage and theres going to be some heat concerns with the tight fits.
What about a modified oilpan with a driveshaft through pan and set the engine far back into more of a front-mid-engine setup?
There might be some options with retrofitting a porsche front axle out of a C4S, it's been a while since I've seen one; but I *think* they are rather small.
It's very challenging to have a front and low V# longitudinally mounted for 4wd use. I always imagined it as being a front mid-engine with the the trans output being a little behind the center line. Transfer case with small diameter driveshaft then running hugged next to the block on the passenger side. Granted, AC might go bye bye. Basically very similar to the new gtr, but it's still a bit too high mounted.
__________________ 2004 Z06 Victory Red---The evil one
Nukeproof driveline, PFC brakes, ARE drysump, Moton suspension, safety eqpt, slicks,etc you get the point. 2007 Z06 Artic White---The graceful one 2004 Avy 2500---The beast 2005 LS430---The daily appliance 1998 Supra--- The Green Monster.
Last edited by OKcruising; 06-05-2008 at 06:50 PM..
that just sounds like a snapped tie rod to me.
