Just got back from the Corvette forum. I wasn't aware that there were a couple LS3's that finally made it into the 11's stock, that's pretty sweet. Although it looks like there's some controversy with at least one of those times? One of the one's might not have been completely stock (something about a tune then removing it and putting it back? That's weird).
And C5 Z06 prices have been dropping like rocks. This is the first time I've seen one ever at $17.5k (and you can probably get them down a little more too): Link
When a used '06 C6 Z06 can be had regularly for $30k, it's going to be tough to keep my current car lol...
An 01 Z06 is greater than an 05-07 C6??? LOL! I also don't feel the C5 Z is better than the C6. Stock for stock, it offers better acceleration - by a small margin. C6 w/ Z51 handles as good or better than the C5 Z with similar rubber (runflats on the C6)
If you can't afford a C6, then yes.... I would opt for an 02-04 Z06, but the C6 is an improvement over the C5. Argue all you want.... the interiror on the C5 just doesn't compare and the fit and finish. I do like the looks of the C5, but to me it is already dated. If top speed matters, again the C6 wins again.
Who keeps their car stock anyway..... Modding the C6 will yield better results also.
__________________ 2006 C6 Z51 A6 -Silver on Red - Blown 370 cubes
2005 Chrysler 300 C SRT-8 (366 rwhp/ 372 rwtq)
2004 CTS-V - 382 stroker, D1SC - Sold
Y2K C5 Triple Black Vert M6 408 cubes - Sold
1995 C4 LT-1 A4 Dark Red - Sold
1994 C4 LT-1 M6 Black - Sold
An 01 Z06 is greater than an 05-07 C6??? LOL! I also don't feel the C5 Z is better than the C6. Stock for stock, it offers better acceleration - by a small margin.
If you can't afford a C6, then yes.... I would opt for an 02-04 Z06, but the C6 is an improvement over the C5. Argue all you want.... the interiror on the C5 just doesn't compare and the fit and finish. I do like the looks of the C5, but to me it is already dated. If top speed matters, again the C6 wins again.
You're right...there's no LS2 C6's in the 11's bone stock. Fastest I could find was 12.2x's at 115. Also I would say an '01 Z06 is about equal in quickness with the LS2 C6's - they have gone 12.2x's at 115 as well. It's not that much slower than the '02+. I would still take an '01 over an '05 C6 when comparing stock to stock.
The arguement shouldn't be whether or not the LS2 C6 is an improvement over the C5Z...it should be that it's an improvement over the C5 which I completely agree with. I could afford an LS2 C6 when I bought my C5Z but obviously could care less about the interior and supposed "fit and finish" the Z just has more of a raw yet nimble racecar feel to it. Now if we're talking LS3 then I would've settled on an LS3 powered Z51 for sure. Don't really care about top speed either since I don't live in Germany and I'm not going to hit top speed on the 1/4.
__________________ '02 Corvette ZO6, AFR 205's milled to 62cc, Pat G cam, 42# SVO's, ported FAST 90/LS2 TB, FLP LT's, ORX, UD pulley, Halltech CAI http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3064178
'99 TA M6, cam and bolt-ons 427RWHP 380RWTQ...SOLD
06-08 C6, get an LS3 if you can but if not a decent set of heads and a FAST will make up the difference and besides, the LS2 C6's are nearly the same price as the C5Z and the refinement is nigt and day.
You should jump on Corvette Forums and ask, you will get alot more feedback there. It will be for the C6 though I'm sure. Either way, they both need mods. 98% of the C5Z's dont run 11's stock (even though it has happened) so dont get hung up on "stock" times unless you want to keep it stock, but remember, C5Z's only hit about 170-ish vs 180-ish for the standard C6...fyi
Here is a recent H/C LS2 build on CF if you want to check it out, not sure if you have ever been on CF. Tech is better but it is another good C5/C6 resource.
Guys, the original poster wanted to know how they'd compare STOCK:
Quote:
if both were stock how would they perform.
And regarding this:
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I also don't feel the C5 Z is better than the C6.
That's great man, and that's you're opinion as it sounds like you're leaning towards better interior as the biggest factor - but it definitely is if you're shooting for performance (LS2 I'm assuming you were referring to?).
Quote:
Stock for stock, it offers better acceleration - by a small margin.
Yes if you're talking '01 Z06. '02+ Z, no, definitely faster than an LS2 stock for stock. The fastest stock Z06 has trapped in the high elevens at 119mph. A stock LS2 C6 can't touch that with a ten-foot pole.
Quote:
C6 w/ Z51 handles as good or better than the C5 Z with similar rubber (runflats on the C6)
This is also not true.
The Z06 has the FE4 suspension and comes stock with a titanium exhaust, thinner glass, lighter wheel rims, non-EMT tires, reduced sound proofing, fixed rear radio aerial instead of powered, and a lighter battery. All designed to save weight. It also has functional rear air scoops to cool the brakes. The Z51 is probably about 85% of a Z06 in the handling department. You'd never notice on the street, but you would notice it on the track.
And the reason for the lower top speed is not one of power. The Z06 utilizes the specially-built M12 6-speed manual transmission. The M12 has more aggressive gearing to increase torque multiplication in most forward gears, allowing for more rapid acceleration and more usable torque at higher speeds.
The M12 6-speed causes the Z06 model of C5 Corvette to have a lower top speed than a normal C5 despite having a higher RPM limit and more power, this is due to its gearing.
There - all you ever wanted to know about the C5 Z06 lol
And regarding the feedback on the other forums, it's funny, it will be for whatever car you currently drive. Go ask in the C6 forums and you get a C6 majority.
Go ask in the C5 forums and you'll get a C5 majority.
Of course, if you go ask on www.z06vette.com, I don't have to tell you what the majority would pick
Almost forgot, have you ever looked underneath a C5 Z06? It also comes with flat body panels underneath for improved aerodynamics at speed.
It's a trip, you should check it out sometime for those that haven't seen it. Looks like someone just took a big sawblade and cut straight across the bottom, there's no big crevices and nothing sticks out...it's completely flat on the bottom...
Almost forgot, have you ever looked underneath a C5 Z06? It also comes with flat body panels underneath for improved aerodynamics at speed.
It's a trip, you should check it out sometime for those that haven't seen it. Looks like someone just took a big sawblade and cut straight across the bottom, there's no big crevices and nothing sticks out...it's completely flat on the bottom...
Im sure you realize the FRC/C5Z Cd (coefficient of drag) is rather high. The C6 coupe is the lowest to date of the Vettes. They should all be nearly the same underneath, as far as I know. My buds 02Z is nearly the same as mine.
C6 Coupe .27-.29 depending on the source
C5 coupe .29
C5Z is .30-.31
C6Z is .31-.34 depending on the source
Not that it matters, but its good to keep the facts straight. They have HID's and fixed headlights too. Not to mention no exterior door handles and push button start and no antenna sticking up all the time. They are as nice inside as my 300SRT8
Im sure you realize the FRC/C5Z Cd (coefficient of drag) is rather high. The C6 coupe is the lowest to date of the Vettes. They should all be nearly the same underneath, as far as I know. My buds 02Z is nearly the same as mine.
C6 Coupe .27-.29 depending on the source
C5 coupe .29
C5Z is .30-.31
C6Z is .31-.34 depending on the source
Not that it matters, but its good to keep the facts straight. They have HID's and fixed headlights too. Not to mention no exterior door handles and push button start and no antenna sticking up all the time. They are as nice inside as my 300SRT8
Thanks for the CD #'s, was not aware of them. Of course drag coefficient is only a part of the equation. You then multiply that by the total frontal area of the car, it would be interesting to see the final #'s, not sure where you'd find those though lol.
A little off-topic, however what made you decide to get rid of the 2.8 KB Cobra? When I was last in the market and deciding on my next car, it was between the C5 Z, C6, and an '03/'04 Cobra...
Thanks for the CD #'s, was not aware of them. Of course drag coefficient is only a part of the equation. You then multiply that by the total frontal area of the car, it would be interesting to see the final #'s, not sure where you'd find those though lol.
A little off-topic, however what made you decide to get rid of the 2.8 KB Cobra? When I was last in the market and deciding on my next car, it was between the C5 Z, C6, and an '03/'04 Cobra...
Short version. My Father had a stroke and he was not getting Social Security. I decided to sell the car to free up money to help take care of him, then 30 days later, he started getting his SS. I would still have it over my C6 but that's life.
I had everything done to it (KB, SRA, full bolt ons) and did not feel like starting over, jumped into a buddies C5 for a few days (barrowed) then grabbed the C6. Its fun but like most guys on here, I am looking for a C6Z next. Im not sure if I could go back but I do consider it nearly everyday, the KB Cobra was the most fun I have ever had with a car. The fastest pass with its new owner was a 10.33 @ 133 with only a 3:55 gear. A few more mods and my C6 will do that too, I hope.
And regarding the feedback on the other forums, it's funny, it will be for whatever car you currently drive. Go ask in the C6 forums and you get a C6 majority.
Go ask in the C5 forums and you'll get a C5 majority.
You are right about that.... people will always pick what they have...LOL!
IMHO, I just don't believe that the C5 Z06 is that much better than an LS2 C6 w/ Z51 despite all the weight savings you are quoting....(as far as handling and acceleration). I don't think anyone is going to tell the difference from seat of the pants, excpet that it has a "more race car feel". From www.corvetteactioncenter.com the weight for a C5 Z is 3118 and the C6 is 3179.
Again, I feel the acceleration is going to be better (slightly) than the C6 stock for stock (my theory is the torque managment is holding it back) and that is what the OP was asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSNISTR
Not on a track.
Do you have any numbers to back up your claim, I'm just curious? You want a C5 Z, so I know why you are going that route with your opinion.
Everyone has their own opinion and I am just sharing mine.
__________________ 2006 C6 Z51 A6 -Silver on Red - Blown 370 cubes
2005 Chrysler 300 C SRT-8 (366 rwhp/ 372 rwtq)
2004 CTS-V - 382 stroker, D1SC - Sold
Y2K C5 Triple Black Vert M6 408 cubes - Sold
1995 C4 LT-1 A4 Dark Red - Sold
1994 C4 LT-1 M6 Black - Sold
Do you have any numbers to back up your claim, I'm just curious? You want a C5 Z, so I know why you are going that route with your opinion.
From the Corvette Museum:
Quote:
Z51 Performance Package. The Z51 Performance Package brings Corvette Coupe performance very close to the same level as the widely admired Z06. The Z51 offers more aggressive dampers and springs, larger stabilizer bars, and larger, cross-drilled brake rotors for optimum track performance capability while still providing a well-controlled and comfortable ride. Extensive racetrack testing reveals that a C6 equipped with the Z51 suspension almost equals the lap time of a C5 Z06 – marking a major advance in the overall performance of a Corvette Coupe by nearly approximating the extreme performance capabilities of the vaunted Z06 at a remarkable value.
The best way to describe z51 handling is that the C5 version drives much bigger than the C6 . The longer body, which despite being more tautly sprung, exhibits more lean. After a few laps, I tend to overlook the long shift throws and great body movement and concentrated on the C5 raucous V8 and predictable manners which reminded me why I like Corvettes so much in the first place. Still the C5 handled like a nicely balanced machete to the C6's scalpel like precision.
As good as the C6 Z51 package is, however, the current Z06 still has it beat in ultimate grip and power. The 2005 Z51 package concedes some handling in favor of ride and does not produce quite as much horsepower as the outgoing Z06. Still its significant that it offers nearly the same level of performance in the much more useful coupe and convertible body styles.
One way to evaluate the two cars is to see how they do on the track. Here is a link to how they did on the "Ring", which is one of the most challenging courses. BTW, the C5 Z06 did better.
Quote:
I tracked my 2006 z51 for 2 years 30+ track days. It wasn't until I attended Spring Mountain last year did I get to drive a c5 z06 and c6 back to back on the track. I loved the feel and experience the c5 z06 provided. You get a feeling of being part of the car instead of just along for the ride like I felt in the c6....I switched from the c6 z51 to a 2002 c5 z06 and never regretted it for a minute. I love the c5 z06 on the track.
Quote:
Dave Hill himself said that the 05 C6 Z51 was a SECOND slower than a C5 Z06 on GM's test track. For track duty, the C5 Z06 is the superior car.
That's the gist of it...full thread is a good read...
Dave Hill driving both cars at the ring:
3 Seconds Faster in a C5 Z06, same driver:
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06
7:59 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51
Do you have any numbers to back up your claim, I'm just curious? You want a C5 Z, so I know why you are going that route with your opinion.
Everyone has their own opinion and I am just sharing mine.
It's cool, I have driven both, and have friends who have both and track them. Stock to stock the C5Z's always get better times around the courses. They just seem to be easier to control and they have more low end torque.
That is all great info.... but the C5 Z06 thread on the CF is hardly objective. After all it is on the C5 section.
Again, I agree that (stock for stock) the C5 Z will perform slightly better in acceleration and it is exploited on the track. I just wouldn't use that as the only reason to buy the C5 Z. When you mod a car, all bets are off, but I don't know anyone that has a stock vette.... Also, how many of you guys are really going to HPDE events? So saying it is a couple of seconds faster around a race track as your only reason to buy is not realistic. You can get into one for $5k to $15k less than a C6.... so it is obviously a bargain. I was thinking of picking up another one to keep my C6 company actually.
This is a good summary of the Z51 that you posted:
The Z51 Performance Package brings Corvette Coupe performance very close to the same level as the widely admired Z06. The Z51 offers more aggressive dampers and springs, larger stabilizer bars, and larger, cross-drilled brake rotors for optimum track performance capability while still providing a well-controlled and comfortable ride. Extensive racetrack testing reveals that a C6 equipped with the Z51 suspension almost equals the lap time of a C5 Z06 – marking a major advance in the overall performance of a Corvette Coupe by nearly approximating the extreme performance capabilities of the vaunted Z06 at a remarkable value.
If I was using my vette to go to VIR, then I would definately start off with the C5 Z06 (get a used one that I didn't mind beating up), but at the moment I'm more into drag racing....
Test drive them both and see which one you like.
__________________ 2006 C6 Z51 A6 -Silver on Red - Blown 370 cubes
2005 Chrysler 300 C SRT-8 (366 rwhp/ 372 rwtq)
2004 CTS-V - 382 stroker, D1SC - Sold
Y2K C5 Triple Black Vert M6 408 cubes - Sold
1995 C4 LT-1 A4 Dark Red - Sold
1994 C4 LT-1 M6 Black - Sold
'03 EB Z06 
