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11-11-2008, 05:53 PM
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#1 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
|  404 lq9 numbers w graph
The car is back to running! Go it tuned today, only has 700ish miles on it, and put down 436rwhp 424rwtq on a SAFE tune....
Overall I am happy, the HUGE thing is that the car drives so well!! I cruised home in 6th gear@1450rpm and its nice and smooth. I do have to stay in some gears a little longer, but with a cam this size its to be expected.
Heres the rundown thus far
TSP 404
Diamond Pistons -10cc
Scat rods
Eagle crank
Stock Rockers
Thunder Racing pushrods
Ford 42lb injectors
Racetronix fuel pump/harness
TSP stg 2.5 ls6 heads
TSP dual valve springs
LS6 Intake/Ported Stock throttle body
1 3/4in Headers(American Racing)
American Racing Catted-Y
FMS Cam 24x/24x 63x/62x
Stock balancer
and other than what is in the sig that is all.....
Let me stress how AWESOME the car drives just cruising around!!!
Once I get some better heads, a fast 92/92, and some larger headers I think it will run very well.
Here is the graph: 
The torque it carries is awesome....
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC)
Last edited by blk99camaro; 11-11-2008 at 06:01 PM..
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11-11-2008, 06:09 PM
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#2 | | 12 Second Club
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 973
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That seems pretty damn low 
Sounds like a great combo though.
I would have expected 470whp out of it. | 
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11-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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#3 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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I'm sorry, but something is not right here. The car is way down on power for the setup you have listed.
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-11-2008, 07:02 PM
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#4 | | TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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are we all missing something cuz those are numbers from a h/c 346, not a built 404, even though it isnt broke in. thatd get you like 15 more. that tune must be holding a ton back or something.
__________________
looking for 6 speed LS1 car around/under $12,000
>>t-top, leather, minor bolt-ons prefered
im in the STL area but will drive | |
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11-11-2008, 07:13 PM
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#5 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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Im not too wrapped up in the dyno numbers, its all in what it runs at the track, we shall see soon enough. And because it makes a difference in power as well the motor is setup to run spray.....power left on the table there as well....
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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11-11-2008, 07:32 PM
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#6 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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I'm totally with you on not living off dyno #'s. The setup is fresh and maybe the tuner did leave a bunch of power on the table.
I just know if we would be looking for some issues if we seen these kind of #'s on our dyno. There are cam only combo's that make this much power with cams similar or smaller then what you have listed.
The car should be in the 470+ range with what you have listed even with a conservative tune.
I hope it runs good for you at the track.
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-11-2008, 07:39 PM
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#7 | | TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1 SPEED  I'm totally with you on not living off dyno #'s. The setup is fresh and maybe the tuner did leave a bunch of power on the table.
I just know if we would be looking for some issues if we seen these kind of #'s on our dyno. There are cam only combo's that make this much power with cams similar or smaller then what you have listed.
The car should be in the 470+ range with what you have listed even with a conservative tune.
I hope it runs good for you at the track. | x2 thats what i was saying. definitely go off track #s but when that low, you gotta check into something. a nitrous tune could have effected the timing. that + the tune + maybe a mustang dyno and the non broke in factor cuold result in this. still, id look into it.
__________________
looking for 6 speed LS1 car around/under $12,000
>>t-top, leather, minor bolt-ons prefered
im in the STL area but will drive | |
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11-11-2008, 07:50 PM
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#8 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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Where would I "look" for a problem first?
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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11-11-2008, 08:05 PM
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#9 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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The graph is a little hard to see, but it seems to peak around 6K which is very early IMO.
this is can be due to the cam installed incorrectly or a restriction, and though the intake is some what of a restriction I do not feel it would cause this in your case
The A/F is hard to read, but it also seems to be on the rich side which could cost some power.
maybe some cam experts like Pat G can add to this
please understand that I'm trying to help and not tear your setup down
The parts all look good, but something is causing it to not make the power it should.
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-11-2008, 08:17 PM
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#10 | | 9 Second Club
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 285
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It's not the cam, It's my old cam and I ran 10.70's n/a with it in my 3800 lb GTO.
I wouldnt worry too much about dyno #'s. Just take it to the track and get it dialed in.
__________________ 
403ci LS2, Dart CNC 225's, direct port, TH400 & 9" Chance Converter
GFORCE1320 Level 2 HALF SHAFTS and stubs
9.41 @ 144mph, 1.41 60ft on the spray, 10.75 @ 125mph, 1.45 60ft | |
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11-11-2008, 08:20 PM
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#11 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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I did not say the cam was bad did I? I said it could be installed incorrectly by the looks of the graph and it peaking very early.
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-11-2008, 08:29 PM
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#12 | | 9 Second Club
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 285
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Could be several things, I bet it is tune related or maybe the LS6 intake and stock tb is choking it some.
I agree, it should have better #'s but the track is the best place to tune IMO.
__________________
403ci LS2, Dart CNC 225's, direct port, TH400 & 9" Chance Converter
GFORCE1320 Level 2 HALF SHAFTS and stubs
9.41 @ 144mph, 1.41 60ft on the spray, 10.75 @ 125mph, 1.45 60ft | |
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11-11-2008, 08:38 PM
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#13 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE1320 Could be several things, I bet it is tune related or maybe the LS6 intake and stock tb is choking it some.
I agree, it should have better #'s but the track is the best place to tune IMO. | yes I agree to most of that as I had stated earlier.
I do hope it just dynos poorly and runs well since I know he has some $ wrapped up in the build.
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-11-2008, 10:16 PM
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#14 | | TECH Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Western Burbs of Detroit
Posts: 3,605
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Well there is a heavy ass drive line and gears eating up some of his numbers. Maybe the clutch was slipping too ?? At any rate a ported 92 from Ron at Vengeance and a 95mm tb should add about 25 rwhp to the mix. N/A tune vs Nitrous tune would probably pickup another 10 so add 35 rwhp to the mix and its still low. I would have the tune looked at just to be sure.
At any rate I am glad to hear that she runs so smooooooooooothly !! Now with that being said can she still run just as smooth with a few adjustments to your tune to get her to make more power ?? Power or drivability ?? Decisions, decisions. How about a cutout ??
__________________ 2000 FRC 402 510 rwhp 500 rwtq for now, still tuning! Tuned by Louis Gigliotti 1 972 429 1963
AFR 205 58cc, g6x3, Vengeance Ported 92mm FAST,
Rev Xtreme 95mm TB, LG Pros no cats, LGM Big 3,
EWP, UD Pully, VaraRam w/K&N www.lgmotorsports.com For all your performance needs !! | |
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11-12-2008, 07:25 AM
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#15 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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Yes the tune is FAT, I wanted to be on the way safe side, sometimes here near the coast water gets in the gas, I dont want to take a chance so we left it fat. Im going to check a few things today, but I really think its airflow thats killing it, its a big cam and im not running a very good int/exh setup for a 400ci motor. The a/f is around 12.5.
The cam was installed correctly, dot to dot as it should have been.
I dont believe the graph shows any signs of clutch slippage, and I would be pissed if it was, its a Cartek with 8k on it, there should be no issues there.
The driveline is HEAVY chromo d/s, 35 spline axles, yea its got some weight.
Im going to check a few things today, and may hit the dyno back up and see if it makes a difference.
Jon
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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11-12-2008, 07:29 AM
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#16 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1 SPEED yes I agree to most of that as I had stated earlier.
I do hope it just dynos poorly and runs well since I know he has some $ wrapped up in the build. | If you have a suggestion on something to check go ahead, I take constructive critism well 
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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11-12-2008, 07:38 AM
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#17 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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thanks..I did not want you to think I was tearing on you. The setup looks good besides some power being left with an intake / TB.
try another dyno if possible or hit the track and see how it runs
good luck
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-12-2008, 07:43 AM
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#18 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1 SPEED thanks..I did not want you to think I was tearing on you. The setup looks good besides some power being left with an intake / TB.
try another dyno if possible or hit the track and see how it runs
good luck | Do you think it is just the intake/tb or do you think it is something else?
I am figuring it is just because of the size of the cam, it may make the engine starve earlier, an intake is in the works
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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11-12-2008, 07:59 AM
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#19 | | LS1Tech Sponsor
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Schaumburg,IL
Posts: 2,387
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it could be as simple as the intake, but I have used them in the past and still not seen a peak that early
being a bit rich and depending on the timing there is power there
balancer is worth a little power
still overall it would be low for a 6 speed car with your setup, but some dyno just tend to read very low
EX: my dad H/C 90/90 A4 car makes 431 rwhp with a 231/237 cam and pulls cleanly to 6800 rpm
track it for now and see how it goes or get an intake / TB and retune it before digging deeper and see how it ends up
__________________ Larry@Speed Inc. 97 Z/28 396/S60/FLT/YANK/UMI/BMR/NOS 441 rwhp 10.89@123 NA 89 Notch H/C/I, S-Trim, TKO500, 460 rwhp @ 10psi 14K orig. miles
www.speedinc.com | |
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11-12-2008, 08:03 AM
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#20 | | On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 193
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The dyno is known low, some people have dyno'd 20+hp other places with no changes.....
__________________
1999 Z28 TSP Forged 404, Stg 2.5 heads, FMS cam, M6, Ported TB, LS6 Intake, American Racing LT's and Catted-y, SLP LoudmouthII, SLP Lid, Pro 5.0, Cartek Level 7 Clutch, Spooled 35 spline 9", 4.10's, DLS Chromoly D/S, UMI Tunnel Mount TQ Arm W/ safty loop, UMI LCA's, UMI PHR, UMI 3 Pt SFC's, Tuned by RPM (Garner NC) | |
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