Dyno Tune Complete Happy with Numbers!

[hookemdevils22]

^^^ haha, so true.

[88ls1blazer]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

Looking forward to hearing your comments after the first drive. Best wishes my friend and congrats being in the over 450 rwhp club !!!

On a side note, I'd like to see a flow chart on those stgIII's and compare to some as cast 220cc TFS and CNC'd TFS 215's just shits and giggles. I am imagining the stg III from livernois does equally as well up top, but the graph suggests that low lift numbers are less then stellar. Either way regardless of how you got there the end results are quite respectable.

One last thing, you said stock compression ?? What is that 10.5 to 1 ??
3.898 B, 3.622 S, HEAD in CC's, and gasket . Could you fill in the blanks please...

Here is livernois stage 3 flow sheet:



Here is Trickflow's 220 head:

GenX Street/Strip Cylinder Heads for GM LSX
Lift Value Intake Flow CFM Exhaust Flow CFM
0.100" 67 47
0.200" 133 104
0.300" 211 167
0.400" 261 202
0.500" 292 222
0.600" 305 233
Tests conducted at 28" of water (pressure). Bore size: 3.900"
CNC-profiled combustion chambers; exhaust with 17⁄8" pipe.

here are AFR's:



So it looks like Livernois head outflows at every measuring point. A keen eye will note that Livernois Doesn't flow the exhaust with a pipe except for peak numbers, and their peak with a pipe is better then TFS's or AFR's with a pipe as well...

[allngn_c5]

Andy, thanks for posting the flow information. Its a tad misleading just taking raw numbers vs raw numbers. Port Velocity has a lot to do with how much power a head makes. Did you look at the cnc TFS 215's ?? The as cast tfs 220's are nice but the cnc'd 215's are a work of art !! I'd put my TFS 215's up against the Liv Stg III anytime. I'd also rather have more low end torque and more AVG power then a higher peak hp.

Thanks again for the flow numbers, just saying there is more to flow, you have to factor in how fast the A/F mixture is going into the cylinder.

[2002CamaroSS1982]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

Andy, thanks for posting the flow information. Its a tad misleading just taking raw numbers vs raw numbers. Port Velocity has a lot to do with how much power a head makes. Did you look at the cnc TFS 215's ?? The as cast tfs 220's are nice but the cnc'd 215's are a work of art !! I'd put my TFS 215's up against the Liv Stg III anytime. I'd also rather have more low end torque and more AVG power then a higher peak hp.

Thanks again for the flow numbers, just saying there is more to flow, you have to factor in how fast the A/F mixture is going into the cylinder.

Agreed that there is more to flow, for the money though the Livernois heads are VERY nice pieces . I am really hoping w/the Fab 9" and 4.11s and some suspension I can hit high tens....who knows though....

[allngn_c5]

Can't argue with you on cost. Best of luck hunting for 10's. I am going hunting too. Wish me luck. I'll be doing with cubes vs you with gears.

Go out and drive your car and shift into 6th at around 70 mph. Now ease into the throttle until you hit WOT at around 100 mph and then just stand on it. Try to remember how that felt. Then if you do a stroker down the road repeat the above and tell me you don't love the stroker !!??!! The strokers have so much torque and they love the big gears. They just pull forever.

[2002CamaroSS1982]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

Can't argue with you on cost. Best of luck hunting for 10's. I am going hunting too. Wish me luck. I'll be doing with cubes vs you with gears.

Go out and drive your car and shift into 6th at around 70 mph. Now ease into the throttle until you hit WOT at around 100 mph and then just stand on it. Try to remember how that felt. Then if you do a stroker down the road repeat the above and tell me you don't love the stroker !!??!! The strokers have so much torque and they love the big gears. They just pull forever.

Good luck man , def wanna have some more cubes

[allngn_c5]

All that torque just makes those taller gears pull and pull and pull !! Smooth as silk !!

[88ls1blazer]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

Andy, thanks for posting the flow information. Its a tad misleading just taking raw numbers vs raw numbers. Port Velocity has a lot to do with how much power a head makes. Did you look at the cnc TFS 215's ?? The as cast tfs 220's are nice but the cnc'd 215's are a work of art !! I'd put my TFS 215's up against the Liv Stg III anytime. I'd also rather have more low end torque and more AVG power then a higher peak hp.

Thanks again for the flow numbers, just saying there is more to flow, you have to factor in how fast the A/F mixture is going into the cylinder.

Here is what I could find on the 215 TFS: I thought you had put 215 AFR, sorry...

Airflow: Trick Flow 215CC CNC LSx Heads
Lift Value Intake Flow (CFM) Exhaust Flow (CFM)
.100 inch 68 55
.200 inch 142 115
.300 inch 215 185
.400 inch 269 230
.500 inch 305 251
.600 inch 320 259

I am assuming that the exhuast was flowed with a pipe again...



They look extremely comparable to me... and it actually looks like the Livernois head is better on the 100 and 200 number. Remember this isn't a hogged out 230+ runner, it's that same runner as their stage 2 head with a bigger valve...

While the TFS stuff is nice, I personally can't see spending the extra money, even on a stroker, I have 2 people I know with GTO's that had their cars done at livernois, one bought their head cam package and the other bought the TFS top end kit. The Livernois Package made more power and torque throughout the enitre RPM band. I even remember there was an area between 2k and 2.5k that the Livernois package made 30ish ft. lbs more torque...

I am very glad you are happy with your TFS heads, that's great that you have a package that works well for you. But I wouldn't be so quick to say your heads are definitely better then another unless you have done back to back comparisons with the same engine, and multiple cams used with every head you are comparing... I know quite a few people that run faster with factory ported heads on strokers then people with aftermarket heads and some with aftermarket heads that are faster then other's with ported factory heads... I am not saying one is better then the other either, but i think with the right cam choice on similar cubes, it's splitting hairs...

[SS02]

Nice Numbers

[dug]

That cam will be very drivable. I had a similar one on my old car with less aggressive lobes and drove pretty good on the stock tune. It could cruize around in 6th gear at 40mph. Didnt make anywhere near the power yours does though. Any idea on what the advance is on that cam?

Do a quick 1-4 on the elgin ohare around 3am and youll have a blast.

[allngn_c5]

I for one would consider the source of those numbers. At least on the livernois stuff. Also you are calling the flow of the two equal?? The exhaust is way better everywhere except at .100 I don't think your TFS numbers are 100% accurate. Did you get them from the TFS Site. If you did then I retract that statement. My TFS 215's flow 328 @ .600 or .625, don't have the flow sheet in front of me. For the money Liv stg III, for true quality and max performance and strength I want the TFS on my motor. JMO

[dug]

you cant trust flow numbers unless independently tested on the same bench. Its just like dynos and even tracks. Everyone is different.

[mike c.]

Amazing how dyno numbers can make us happy. I know I have seen good days and bad days on the dyno. I thinkYou did a smart thing getting more cyl head now for maybe bigger ci's later. Saves on buying new heads. Congrats to ya.

[2002CamaroSS1982]

All that I know is that I am happy with my combo and the power it made, I wanted 450rwhp at least and got +12 on that. Now its just a question of how long I will be happy with that lol, better start saving now. Like I said for the money that I saved I am extremely happy with the performance of my heads. I haven't yet gotten to the point where I am trying to squeeze each additional HP out of the car. Thats what nitrous is for! :-D

[SLOC5LS6]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

Andy, thanks for posting the flow information. Its a tad misleading just taking raw numbers vs raw numbers. Port Velocity has a lot to do with how much power a head makes. Did you look at the cnc TFS 215's ?? The as cast tfs 220's are nice but the cnc'd 215's are a work of art !! I'd put my TFS 215's up against the Liv Stg III anytime. I'd also rather have more low end torque and more AVG power then a higher peak hp.

Thanks again for the flow numbers, just saying there is more to flow, you have to factor in how fast the A/F mixture is going into the cylinder.

trickflow 215s flow 320+cfm

[SLOC5LS6]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

I for one would consider the source of those numbers. At least on the livernois stuff. Also you are calling the flow of the two equal?? The exhaust is way better everywhere except at .100 I don't think your TFS numbers are 100% accurate. Did you get them from the TFS Site. If you did then I retract that statement. My TFS 215's flow 328 @ .600 or .625, don't have the flow sheet in front of me. For the money Liv stg III, for true quality and max performance and strength I want the TFS on my motor. JMO

For max performance, I'd go with the Cartek 4x LS6 heads...They trump TFS 215s, they cost more also, but you get what you pay for.

[chrs1313]

just think i put down 409 on that same dyno and ran 10.80s with cool air in late fall/early winter...

if you get you setup right and have a decent raceweight you are 10s easy man...

[2002CamaroSS1982]

Originally Posted by chrs1313

just think i put down 409 on that same dyno and ran 10.80s with cool air in late fall/early winter...

if you get you setup right and have a decent raceweight you are 10s easy man...

What are you weighing in at? Do you have any suspension mods? I would assume to cut that 60' you have some lol.

[2002CamaroSS1982]

Originally Posted by 2002CamaroSS1982

What are you weighing in at? Do you have any suspension mods? I would assume to cut that 60' you have some lol.

Lol n/m I just read your sig.....I dont think it lists a race weight though

[88ls1blazer]

Originally Posted by allngn_c5

I for one would consider the source of those numbers. At least on the livernois stuff. Also you are calling the flow of the two equal?? The exhaust is way better everywhere except at .100 I don't think your TFS numbers are 100% accurate. Did you get them from the TFS Site. If you did then I retract that statement. My TFS 215's flow 328 @ .600 or .625, don't have the flow sheet in front of me. For the money Liv stg III, for true quality and max performance and strength I want the TFS on my motor. JMO

I don't know what you are trying to say here, but let me post something. I have taken the time to have them independently flowed, and out of the heads I tested ONLY livernois flowed a good % better then advertised (the others were 1-5 cfm +/_ but there were some .300-.400 numbers that were +15 better then advertised on the Livernois stuff...)

Also, as far as power numbers on the GTO's there were done on the same dyno day within 30 minutes of each other...

So since it sounds like you have had personal dealings with Livernois cylinder heads and TFS let me know how it compared on your build.

I have read the board long enough, and I have done this long enough, while the aftermarket LS heads are good, most of them only make improvements in areas like deck thinkness, and valve spring pocket design... Look at how many people make crazy numbers on ported 243's, there are numerous people that have shelled out even more money for aftermarket for what? The bragging rights? I am in no ways saying that they aren't a good product. They are good, but another $1000 good (once you factor the necessity of rockers) is it worth it?