First let me say that I’m not trying to start an argument here. I would just like to have a civil conversation on why there is so much distain towards the lt1. I've seen several post that have been deleted that show these feelings towards lt1s being involved in this racing series. I think that we need to talk about this so allot of people won't waste their money and make changes to run in a race where they aren't wanted. What is the hang up on lt1s or even lt1s with converted SBC heads running in these classes. The rules have just about eliminated any possibility of the latter happening(converted 23 deg. SBC heads on the same level as c5r is crazy). I hope that this doesn't get deleted and we can have a civil conversation about this. Its something I would like to know and I'm sure all the other lt1 racers would equally be concerned about. Many lt1 racers have been supportive of this series from the beginning..even back in the nfra days..so why are we really not wanted to be included in a GM EFI race?
The LT1 weight breaks are equal to all production heads. The reason the LT1's that are converted to gen1 heads are on the same weight break as a C5R: The assumption was that if you changed to gen1 heads you would buy a better head, not another 23 degree head. The C5R head is a stock LS1 ex port with a 18 degree chevy intake port cast for racing purpose in the Rolex series. The 18, SB2 and the old 067 pontiac are all Nascar based race heads. There are also some drag race based heads that are very good, splayed valve chevy and wedge head buick. If you have a 23 degree gen1 head on a LT1 block you should post that for a weight consideration.
The LT1 is getting hard to find parts for, but if you want to run one in a class give me a call and we will build you a competitive one within the rules.
Kurt
__________________ "I spend most of my money on cars and fuel, the rest I waste"
-First Gen3 in the 6's@ over 200
August 15th 2005 6.8660@205.47
-Hot Rod Drag Week 2006 small block power adder winner with 402 LS2 supercharged.
-My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Class: Super Modified
Topic: SBC Gen I type heads and weight penalties, rules 3.1.0.
Details:
SBC Gen I heads with 23 degree valve angles permitted on Gen II block with no penalty.
SBC Gen I heads with less than 23 degree valve angles permitted on Gen II block, but entrant must add 300 lbs penalty weight.
Class: Pro Modified
Topic: SBC Gen I type heads and weight penalties, rules 5.1.0.
Details:
SBC Gen I heads with 23 degree valve angles permitted with no penalty.
SBC Gen I heads with less than 23 degree valve angles permitted, but entrant must add 400 lbs penalty weight.
Absolutely no disdain for LT1 stuff, but this is LS1TECH, and our viewer base and participatory body of members tend to be mostly owners of LS1-based combinations. There are two points you make. I have answered the first.
Regarding the restriction on cylinder heads, I think Kurt's answer is better than what I would type.
I liked the idea of head penalties starting @ 100# for 18* and an additional 100# or so for every 3* of valve angle changed. I know why this will never happen though.
Maybe if some guys actually ran these combinations next year there might be some data to justify more LT1 weight breaks? The Super Stock rules look way better for LT1's than last years Factory Stock rules did.
The cylinder head rules are good where they are, we did a lot of research to push combos around. We feel that currently if someone considered building an 18 degree headed LT1 they could but they won't run away with a class which is what would happen if there was no weight penalty.
OK, been out of town because im currently moving. I need to understand these rules before I stop visiting this site. AFRS are going to be on my new motor so I get get hit with a 300 pound weigth penalty? So 100#s for a SOLID axle, 50 auto, 50 for purpose built racing transmision , 300 for heads and 123 for cubes. I just dont undertstand, the THUNDER RACE gets the biggest car count hands down. Why dont we just stick to there rules with maybe some tweaks. I cant get my car to 3700 pounds, I dont think it ever weighed that. Must race orgs have a rule on how much weight you can add. So you guys have no prob with some one trying to add 500#s. This cant be, when are you guys gonna post the real rules?
__________________
Stefan D.
TY TECH RACING/ MMRC BUILT 25.5 1993 TRANS AM
401 CI LT-1-AFR 215RR-SUPER VICTOR 18*- BIG STUFF- F-1 REVERSE
If your AFR heads are 23 degrees, there is no weight penalty.
you do not get hit with the 50 auto AND the racing tranny penalty. Only one of those.
The solid axle rule is there to help the Corvette and GTO entries. We actually dropped the minimum weight by 100 lbs to add that penalty in.
I new combo is a 401 CI LT-4, 215cc raised runner LT-4s, Brodix intake, 105 mm TB and 2 stage Direct port. I guess i just need some clarification. Im running X-treme Street next year just changing TBs to do this so I want to still be legal for these races if possible. My question is how are you guys gonna check to see If mine or someone else has heads that have been rolled to degree them. I just cant see you tearing down or having the neccessary equipment to enforce this. I want to be legal for Extrme Modified.
__________________
Stefan D.
TY TECH RACING/ MMRC BUILT 25.5 1993 TRANS AM
401 CI LT-1-AFR 215RR-SUPER VICTOR 18*- BIG STUFF- F-1 REVERSE
Just to add in I'm glad you made the 23 degree heads fair game. There aren't that many 23 degree heads that can keep up with the LS1/LS6 head on the market. This was a good gesture.. This coming from an LS1 owner, who started out with SBC.
Absolutely no disdain for LT1 stuff, but this is LS1TECH, and our viewer base and participatory body of members tend to be mostly owners of LS1-based combinations.
What the majority user base or racers of the host board/race does not matter so much, as the race is called the GM EFI Nationals, LT1s are just as much GM EFI as an LS1 is. So even if it is LS1tech, this race is rightfuly ours as much as it is for an LS1 owner. I have no disdain for LS1s, I love to see the cars progress to the next level as much as I do the LT1. Making rules for this series is no easy task and I realize this, the two motors are very different from one another, so making things fair is not an easy task. I just ask you continue to pay attention to LT1 owners, not treat us as if its a favor that y'all let us run in the series. I look forward to future races, lot of great cars comming out. I'm also really excited about the street fighter class as well, we got some LT1 cars that could wreck shop in that class.
Thanks
Neil
__________________ 1993 Trans Am Reg Cab 5.7
2008 GMC Sierra Ext Cab 5.3
Last edited by Bizzzatch350; 01-05-2005 at 11:46 PM..
Location: windsor, ont. canada - Home of the fastest LT1 6spd.
Posts: 2,979
Stefan,
are you able to run a 2 stage direct port with only 4 solenoids? i am just used to my NOS kit having 2 solenoids per cylinder bank, and we are only allowed to use a max of 4 solenoids.
so i could buy a set of All Pro 23* raised runners to use? those heads flow really nice! not that i am going to right now, but i am just curious
__________________ 1996 SS 399 ci LT1 Harshaw Race Engine, Full BMR suspension. Best 60' 1.27/MPH 155.28 Quickest & Fastest TRUE T56 F body
First LT1 6spd f-Body in the 8's & 9's. N2O:8.97@ 155.23,1.34 60'/3600lbs.
Thanks to: Liberty's Gears, BMR Fabrication, Bryan Harshaw - HRE, McLeod Ind., FAST, Madman, Applied Nitrous Technology, and Eric Bradby ~ EB Porting.
Why the animosity towards the lt1? 
, 300 for heads and 123 for cubes. I just dont undertstand, the THUNDER RACE gets the biggest car count hands down. Why dont we just stick to there rules with maybe some tweaks. I cant get my car to 3700 pounds, I dont think it ever weighed that. Must race orgs have a rule on how much weight you can add. So you guys have no prob with some one trying to add 500#s. 
This cant be, when are you guys gonna post the real rules?
safe to round up I would say 
