Hey Andrew... I FINALLY got a few prototype inlets..
When will your motor be up and running? I want to send you one to test. We did back to back testing on our SF 1020 today, and the results are freaking unreal. I cant wait to have a couple guys run these.. Im dying to see what the excuses for not buying one will be then..
Also, what size is your TB so I can have the flange cut right. Do you want methanol bungs in it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z06PSI
That is not including the 1200rwhp LSX pro-touring 69 Camaro that was on ebay a few months ago.
We actually tested the whipple 3.3 against the KB 2.8H. There was virtually no difference at all. KB was considering making a 3.3, but stopped after they saw the results. Not that the Whipple is bad, its just that the 3.3 really shines with a HUGE motor. It would work well on 450+cid motors (actually beat the KB). Anything under that, and the 2.8H works just fine.
But also, anything OVER 23psi, and the whipple starts to come apart. The rotors start to whip really hard, and begin tearing up the inner case. If you look at alot of the GT500 guys who are running big boost, their running into a ton of issues. I honestly think this is why they came out with the 2.9. Which is basically a 2.3 with slightly longer rotors.
Either way, none of the whipples will fit in our engine compartments. Especially the 3.3. It would be physically impossible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 52172
Quick question is the wipple 3.3 a roots and I know the KB type blowers are twin screw? What would you rather have on a 408 or larger for street racing a 3.3 whipple or a 2.8 Kenne Belle?
Hey Andrew... I FINALLY got a few prototype inlets..
When will your motor be up and running? I want to send you one to test. We did back to back testing on our SF 1020 today, and the results are freaking unreal. I cant wait to have a couple guys run these.. Im dying to see what the excuses for not buying one will be then..
Also, what size is your TB so I can have the flange cut right. Do you want methanol bungs in it?
How about this for proof: Take an 03 Cobra. It comes with a roots style Eaton M112 from the factory. If you put full boltons, port the SC and tune it within an anch of it's life you MIGHT get to 550 RWHP. However- if you bolt on a twin screw KB or Whipple you ROUTINELY see RWHP #'s 600-800 depending on supporting mods and size of blower. The proof really is in the numbers- you can believe them or not believe them- your choice.
Manufacturers go with the HEaton because it's FAR cheaper to mass produce. You would add 3-5k to the price if you added a twin screw. Most manufacturers shy away from that kind of hike for fear of losing customers.
the superchargers are diffrent sizes and made for for different ammounts of air. I bet that ported eaton will whoop the 3.4 whipple if they are both pullied to 8psi.
the superchargers are diffrent sizes and made for for different ammounts of air. I bet that ported eaton will whoop the 3.4 whipple if they are both pullied to 8psi.
Not a chance in the world.
__________________ 99 Z28 - TSP 404 Stroker, Fast 92/NW 95mm, Stage 2.5 heads, Forged bottom end, Fast Toys lid, 1-5/8's AR headers, Fab 9 in w/full spool, 35 spline mosers, Chrome moly DS, UMI Trq Arm, UMI Panhard Bar, FLSFC's, Hotchkiss springs, 5.0 shifter, cartech level 7 clutch, Tick Master/Slave/Bleeder Kit, C5Z Wheels on Nitto 555's. Tuned by RPM in Garner NC 478rwhp 444rwtq
Looking to trade for a fullsize 4X4 P/U or SUV- shoot me a PM if interested.
the superchargers are diffrent sizes and made for for different ammounts of air. I bet that ported eaton will whoop the 3.4 whipple if they are both pullied to 8psi.
That's 680HP at the crank after their tune and pulley.
This is the latest Lingenfelter ZR1 Chassis Dyno that they have posted (stock vs. pullied/injectors/tuned):
Not quite as impressive as you make it out to be...
And let's not forget that the ZR1 makes it damn hard to convert to any other system without adding a 3" cowl hood and a total engine reconfig. They integrated that TVS so deep into the manifold that it will be a while before you see blower changes.
Look at the Ford GT - the highest power package out there now has a Whipple 3.4HPR strapped to the top, but that engine compartment has plenty of room. Part of the LSx problem is the engine setback and cowl issues that make some blowers very difficult to fit.
UPDATE: Just found this: "This Lingenfelter ZR1 has the latest version of our second level of supercharger upgrades and produces an impressive 739 RWHP & 720 RWTQ. The Lingenfelter supercharger upgrades included our pulley upgrade, air intake modifications, intercooler improvements and tuning."
Jim
I was busy and then at Carlisle all weekend so couldn't respond. Glad you found the correct info yourself. I started this thread to learn something. I have no experience or biases with either kind of blower. The zr1 results are extremely impressive and I was curious as to whether the TVS had closed the gap between twin screw and roots or if the ls9 was just more bad ass than the ford motors.
On a SMALL motor, to about 3200 rpms, yes.... Other than that, not a chance...
The ONLY reason the MP112 would be able to hang, is based on the rotor speeds. The only way you would get the 3.4 to boost to 8psi, is by underdriving the living hell out of it. This would cause the blower to react extremely slow. But once it got in its groove, then, the charicteristics of a top mount blower would step in, and the 3.4 would destroy it in every fashion. Although the theory of having the smallest possible blower for the application is a somewhat correct theory, its mainly a bullshit excuse for magnusson to convince people that they dont need a bigger blower that they dont offer.
Yes, you want a small (ish) size PD blower. But not a tiny 1.8-2.3L At least not on 350-450cid motors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 180ls1
the superchargers are diffrent sizes and made for for different ammounts of air. I bet that ported eaton will whoop the 3.4 whipple if they are both pullied to 8psi.
Tunning a Roe supercharged 1st gen Viper today. non-intercooled 8.5:1 engine, pump gas and meth, @10psi...710whp/750wtq. I know that a 112/122/1900/2300 would not do that non intercooled. This was heat soaked too, back to back passes got down to 690/735. The screw works, too bad there is no room for an intercooler on the Viper...I can post some graphs tomorrow as I am still sneaking up on the tune, 15 degrees timing and 10.8:1 AFR. I will keep it lower then 11.2:1 for the most part.
Hey Andrew... I FINALLY got a few prototype inlets..
When will your motor be up and running? I want to send you one to test. We did back to back testing on our SF 1020 today, and the results are freaking unreal. I cant wait to have a couple guys run these.. Im dying to see what the excuses for not buying one will be then..
Also, what size is your TB so I can have the flange cut right. Do you want methanol bungs in it?
Man, Im soooooooooo close on getting my car running.. Leave me alone.. HAHA.
I didnt forget about you. I FINALLY crossed the hump, and am on the down hill side. I just need a few more days, and she should be ready to fire. I gotts beat you to the punch.
On a SMALL motor, to about 3200 rpms, yes.... Other than that, not a chance...
The ONLY reason the MP112 would be able to hang, is based on the rotor speeds. The only way you would get the 3.4 to boost to 8psi, is by underdriving the living hell out of it. This would cause the blower to react extremely slow. But once it got in its groove, then, the charicteristics of a top mount blower would step in, and the 3.4 would destroy it in every fashion. Although the theory of having the smallest possible blower for the application is a somewhat correct theory, its mainly a bullshit excuse for magnusson to convince people that they dont need a bigger blower that they dont offer.
Yes, you want a small (ish) size PD blower. But not a tiny 1.8-2.3L At least not on 350-450cid motors.
that is what i was trying to get at because a lot of cobra guys buy the big 3.4 whipple or 2.8 KB and will only run pump with like 18psi. They could have run a 2.2 or 2.3 twinscrew and made better power because they are not spinning such a big unit.
Or people will overdrive the eaton to all hell by running a very common 4lb lower and 2.76 upper combo that will spin the blower 50% more then the maximum it is suppesed to spin at. Then say the eaton does not make good power .
I realize that the twinscrew blowers are a better option a lot of times but when that one guy compared a very overdriven eaton to one of the bigger twin screws i wanted to let him know that was not a good comparison between the two blowers.
First of all how can you find www.ls1tech.com but you can't find google? Do you not know how to use a search function? Just some friendly advice- since it's very obvious you don't believe what we are saying why don't YOU do some hunting around on your own. CALL Kenne Bell or Whipple- then call Eaton. Find out from the people who produce them. Or if you want a more unbiased opinion CALL the tech line @ www.superchargersonline.com - I've personally spoken to them numerous times and they are VERY knowledgable when it comes to the strengths and weaknesses of all 3 different types of blowers. That will allow YOU to speak more intelligently on THIS subject. Many of us in this thread have already done the causative research and have been able to form our own opinions based on FACT- I would suggest you do the same.
First of all how can you find www.ls1tech.com but you can't find google? Do you not know how to use a search function? Just some friendly advice- since it's very obvious you don't believe what we are saying why don't YOU do some hunting around on your own. CALL Kenne Bell or Whipple- then call Eaton. Find out from the people who produce them. Or if you want a more unbiased opinion CALL the tech line @ www.superchargersonline.com - I've personally spoken to them numerous times and they are VERY knowledgable when it comes to the strengths and weaknesses of all 3 different types of blowers. That will allow YOU to speak more intelligently on THIS subject. Many of us in this thread have already done the causative research and have been able to form our own opinions based on FACT- I would suggest you do the same.
that is what i was trying to get at because a lot of cobra guys buy the big 3.4 whipple or 2.8 KB and will only run pump with like 18psi. They could have run a 2.2 or 2.3 twinscrew and made better power because they are not spinning such a big unit.
Or people will overdrive the eaton to all hell by running a very common 4lb lower and 2.76 upper combo that will spin the blower 50% more then the maximum it is suppesed to spin at. Then say the eaton does not make good power .
I realize that the twinscrew blowers are a better option a lot of times but when that one guy compared a very overdriven eaton to one of the bigger twin screws i wanted to let him know that was not a good comparison between the two blowers.
Reading> you- first if you would READ as I have suggested a few times now you would know that both Whipple AND Kenne Bell recommend BUILDING your motor prior to running their bigger blowers. All you have to do is go to their website. But then again you'd rather sit here and argue with everybody about how much better roots are than twin screw.
The reason I spoke about the maxxed out HEaton vs the twin screw was to illustrate to you WHY many people will drop the Roots for the Twin Screw. But again instead of listening to the facts that many of us have laid out, you would rather sit here and argue. At this point whether you believe or not is irrelevant. YOUR opinion of Roots superiority is NOT supported by the facts no matter how much you argue. Here is another parrallel- in the 1400's just because many people thought the world was flat (in the face of FACT I might add) didn't make it so.
As I said before- do your own research. Figure it out. Once you see the FACTS for yourself the answer really is quite obvious. GL
BTW- the link below PROVES my and everyone elses point. It compares a 1.5 Roots vs a 1.5 Twin screw- in case you missed that they are the SAME size on the SAME motor under the SAME conditions. Did you even bother to read it? If after reading that article you STILL believe that roots is superior there really is no hope for you.- oh yeah- the world STILL isn't flat!! http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ge...REWvsROOTS.pdf
__________________ 99 Z28 - TSP 404 Stroker, Fast 92/NW 95mm, Stage 2.5 heads, Forged bottom end, Fast Toys lid, 1-5/8's AR headers, Fab 9 in w/full spool, 35 spline mosers, Chrome moly DS, UMI Trq Arm, UMI Panhard Bar, FLSFC's, Hotchkiss springs, 5.0 shifter, cartech level 7 clutch, Tick Master/Slave/Bleeder Kit, C5Z Wheels on Nitto 555's. Tuned by RPM in Garner NC 478rwhp 444rwtq
Looking to trade for a fullsize 4X4 P/U or SUV- shoot me a PM if interested.
Man, Im soooooooooo close on getting my car running.. Leave me alone.. HAHA.
I didnt forget about you. I FINALLY crossed the hump, and am on the down hill side. I just need a few more days, and she should be ready to fire. I gotts beat you to the punch.
I will hopefully get some heads back this week and I might be up by the 4th.
Ok, so you bought and put that exact blower off of that specific car on your car and it's how much power so far in the last 1.5-2 years? All of the people putting these on their cars and not trying to lay low, but trying for the win and still nothing. Jeff had his big sale last year and something like "29" buyers (maybe more) and not one has posted up an even remotely impressive number. That counts for dyno and track #'s. Show me something. The E-bay players don't impress me. I have seen some really stupid claims on there. Show me something tangible in the mainstream. Making decent power shouldn't be such a struggle. As a matter of fact, it isn't with the right products, installation and tuning! With all of those Corvette KB buyers, someone should have posted their #'s by now. Z06Wanted's car had poor #'s on his 408 and that was immediately discounted due to his 8.8:1 compression, but we still have the others. Rumor has it that Robert Miller's 402 built with Jeff's cam and compression recommendations and a 2.8 posted up #'s that were just as weak as Z06Wanted's. When there are Vortechs, Novi's, Prochargers, TVS's, Turbo kits all able to post up good track times and dyno #'s out there when they're actually trying to (as opposed to the car show guys that want to have 500rwhp and some bling, but don't race), why fight it? The KB is a nice looking unit for sure. I'm just not impressed with it's performance so far. Maybe with Jeff's innovative mind, he'll resolve the inlet issues as well as all the others and we'll get to see better performance.
__________________ HKE Iron 403, Callies and Wiseco, AFR225's, A&A Vortech Ysi, custom cam, ram air intercooler, 8-rib pulleys and fuel system, LS2 intake and throttle body, 79lb injectors, ECS alky control, Innovators West O.D. pulley, Dynatech Headers, B&B exhaust, Innovate XD-16, HPtuners Pro, Textralia Exo-Triple, 08Z T6060&Diff, Lingenfelter mini-tub kit. Assembled, installed and tuned by yours truly.
911rwhp with the old heads. Looking to take it up a notch with the new AFR's. #'s coming soon.
Last edited by BLOWNBLUEZ06; 06-30-2009 at 12:47 PM..
I don't know if the first sentence is a statement or a question?
Fact: Yes I bought his blower in that video and put it on my stock motor.
Fact: The stock motor had 5 ringlands let go.
Fact: I have had one problem after another with my new motor and one driveline issue that had zero to do with the blower.
Fact: Z06wanted had issues with compression and IAT temps as he did not build that motor with a 10.0:1 compression in mind for another project. I did not have IAT temp problems on the initial dyno runs just a driveline problem (clutch).
Fact: You wanted to see a 800 rwhp KB car and I posted a video and a dyno chart.
Assumption: Robert Miller is having issues unless he comes on here and states otherwise.
You come on here and other boards to prove what? To bash an unproven setup? Why might I ask that you go from one KB thread to another doing the same thing? Nobody is bringing you into these discussions. I am glad some people want to take chances in life on new items.
The reason I spoke about the maxxed out HEaton vs the twin screw was to illustrate to you WHY many people will drop the Roots for the Twin Screw. But again instead of listening to the facts that many of us have laid out, you would rather sit here and argue. At this point whether you believe or not is irrelevant. YOUR opinion of Roots superiority is NOT supported by the facts no matter how much you argue. Here is another parrallel- in the 1400's just because many people thought the world was flat (in the face of FACT I might add) didn't make it so.
Lol i never said roots were better you need to reread what i said. It is just unfair to compare a way overdriven roots charger to a twin screw that is the right size for the setup like you did.
The origonal poster asked if one was much better then the other. And you tried to give him proof by showing garbage for an example. Your second link you posted to "teach" me is good but still is not ideal because KB is going to post the results which will make their blower looks the best. If that test was done by a roots blower company the results on the two 1.5l blowers would have looked much different.
Get off your high horse and your problems that you have with roots blowers and try to help someone and give them honest feedback. That will help him get the best answer.
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