I think we all know the benefits of using meth and what has to be done as far as tuning when using meth. But my question is, since the nitrous can be had for a cheaper price, what needs to be done as far as tuning, ie afr, timing, boost? Also, where would be the best place for nozzle location?
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Ebay Turbo Kit l Cam l Moser 9" l th400 swap in progress
Those 2 things have completely different effects as far as I know. The meth is like adding a higher octane to deter detonation under boost. Nitrous does not do this. Hence why people run stand alone fuel cells with race gas for when they spray or run a little higher octane in tank when spraying nitrous. And as far as I know everyone suggests tuning without the meth as well. Then sprayin the meth on top if needed. Only time I have seens cars tuned with meth is for basically race only applications. Or at least thats what I have found to be suggested.
So I'm a little confused about your meth tuning comments. Now I have heard of nitrous being used to help turbo spooling in certain applications. But I do not believe it is possible to use nitrous in place of meth since they do not serve the same purpose.
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1999 Trans Am Ws6 6-speed--12.9 @ 108.7 w/2.1 60' (street tires)(before H/C/I no new times yet) MODS: MTI Lid--Hooker Muffler--Pacesetter 1 3/4" race LT's--TSP 3" ORY--LS7 clutch kit--LS2 flywheel--224/.581 114--5.3 Bo White heads port/polished & milled .018"--Bo White port/polished TB--Patriot Gold dual spring kit--7.4 TR chromemoly pushrods
I sprayed a 50 shot into mine, didnt need to do a thing different to the tune. When it was a wet shot it fouled the plugs out. So I just diconnected the fuel solenoid and left it. Nozzle is right after the TB in the intake plenum. Seems to work fine.
__________________ 99 Transam - 5.3L w/ GT45 -10.76 @ 128 w/ 1.83 60ft and broke something.
99 Vette FRC - stock
72 Nova -New twin setup in the works. (former turbo 5.3)
I sprayed a 50 shot into mine, didnt need to do a thing different to the tune. When it was a wet shot it fouled the plugs out. So I just diconnected the fuel solenoid and left it. Nozzle is right after the TB in the intake plenum. Seems to work fine.
I believe he is asking if he can use nitrous in place of meth with the same results since nitrous is cheaper.
OP, correct me if I mis-read what you were asking.
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1999 Trans Am Ws6 6-speed--12.9 @ 108.7 w/2.1 60' (street tires)(before H/C/I no new times yet) MODS: MTI Lid--Hooker Muffler--Pacesetter 1 3/4" race LT's--TSP 3" ORY--LS7 clutch kit--LS2 flywheel--224/.581 114--5.3 Bo White heads port/polished & milled .018"--Bo White port/polished TB--Patriot Gold dual spring kit--7.4 TR chromemoly pushrods
Those 2 things have completely different effects as far as I know. The meth is like adding a higher octane to deter detonation under boost. Nitrous does not do this. Hence why people run stand alone fuel cells with race gas for when they spray or run a little higher octane in tank when spraying nitrous. And as far as I know everyone suggests tuning without the meth as well. Then sprayin the meth on top if needed. Only time I have seens cars tuned with meth is for basically race only applications. Or at least thats what I have found to be suggested.
So I'm a little confused about your meth tuning comments. Now I have heard of nitrous being used to help turbo spooling in certain applications. But I do not believe it is possible to use nitrous in place of meth since they do not serve the same purpose.
Meth is used to lower the IAT's, so you can have your tune without meth and then tune for meth like you said. But there is a table for IAT spark advance which allows you to add or remove timing for different IAT's.
My concern is for when spraying, what is the target afr and timing suggestions.
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Ebay Turbo Kit l Cam l Moser 9" l th400 swap in progress
I sprayed a 50 shot into mine, didnt need to do a thing different to the tune. When it was a wet shot it fouled the plugs out. So I just diconnected the fuel solenoid and left it. Nozzle is right after the TB in the intake plenum. Seems to work fine.
So your basically using a dry shot, do you have a maf? What gain did you see with the 50 shot? What afr and timing are you running with the 50 shot?
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Ebay Turbo Kit l Cam l Moser 9" l th400 swap in progress
So your basically using a dry shot, do you have a maf? What gain did you see with the 50 shot? What afr and timing are you running with the 50 shot?
5.3L 8.6:1 comp. 11.4-11.6: AFR. Timing set at 19* No MAF.
15psi boost
w/o nitrous 10.5x's @ 128
w/ 50 shot 10.30's @ 131
My converter is a TCI streetfighter 4000 stall rebuilt by Coan. They told me to not even bother putting it back it cause it will never hold up. Hughes built me one and I had problems and sent it back so I threw the TCI back in. It works ok but im sure its losing some.
__________________ 99 Transam - 5.3L w/ GT45 -10.76 @ 128 w/ 1.83 60ft and broke something.
99 Vette FRC - stock
72 Nova -New twin setup in the works. (former turbo 5.3)
I think we all know the benefits of using meth and what has to be done as far as tuning when using meth. But my question is, since the nitrous can be had for a cheaper price, what needs to be done as far as tuning, ie afr, timing, boost? Also, where would be the best place for nozzle location?
Meth is cheaper then Nitrous as far as how long it last and how much it cost. Meth is about 3 dollars a gallon and 5 gallons lasted me a very long time running 100% meth. It reduces iat, increase octane and acts as extra fuel. I have my nozzle after my BOV but before my iat sensor.
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*02 Camaro Z28 - LME 370/ KYTP 76mm kit *** 07 Trailblazer SS - Tuned by TheBlurLS1*
My methanol is $5/gal and I mix it, most n2o is $2-5/lb, I don't really see it being cheaper.
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2000 A4 WS6 Trans Am 396ci - D1-SC - Stalled Auto - 3966lb - 808.65 RWHP 729.95 RWTQ - 9.98 at 130 MPH SOLD 11/09 2001 A4 Trans Am H/C - Stalled Auto - 3650lb - 442 RWHP 403 RWTQ - 11.6 @ 117 MPH (hitting the limiter) SOLD 1998 A4 Trans Am Very mild H/C - Stalled Auto - 3550lb - 396 RWHP 390 RWTQ - 12.0 @ 113 MPH SOLD
I was referring to buying the system used or new for that matter. I can get a bottle filled for less than 20 bucks since my uncle owns a refilling station.
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Ebay Turbo Kit l Cam l Moser 9" l th400 swap in progress
Ok, I'm on the same page now I think. Your weighing options between meth w/more boost or just adding a nitrous kit right? The way it was worded in the OP confused me a little.
I'd say actually in the long run meth would be the better option. Especially with a turbo where you can run a boost controller & change boost levels whenever you want to take advantage of the meth. Depending on how hard you push it while running the meth will determine how much is used. Like Trust said, a full tank of meth up front can last a while & a 5 gallon container could last you months. I think you'd run through more nitrous than meth honestly & eventually the nitrous would end up costing more to keep on hand than the meth.
But thats just my opinion.
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1999 Trans Am Ws6 6-speed--12.9 @ 108.7 w/2.1 60' (street tires)(before H/C/I no new times yet) MODS: MTI Lid--Hooker Muffler--Pacesetter 1 3/4" race LT's--TSP 3" ORY--LS7 clutch kit--LS2 flywheel--224/.581 114--5.3 Bo White heads port/polished & milled .018"--Bo White port/polished TB--Patriot Gold dual spring kit--7.4 TR chromemoly pushrods
My methanol is $5/gal and I mix it, most n2o is $2-5/lb, I don't really see it being cheaper.
How long does $40 dollars of n2o last and how long does $40 dollars of Meth last. Meth is cheaper. A bottle would last me 4-8 passes, 5 gallons of meth has lasted me around 8 months.
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*02 Camaro Z28 - LME 370/ KYTP 76mm kit *** 07 Trailblazer SS - Tuned by TheBlurLS1*
How long does $40 dollars of n2o last and how long does $40 dollars of Meth last. Meth is cheaper. A bottle would last me 4-8 passes, 5 gallons of meth has lasted me around 8 months.
Good point. I was thinking initial cost not really long term which was stupid of me. Even though I get the discount, I don't see it being a viable option now.
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Ebay Turbo Kit l Cam l Moser 9" l th400 swap in progress
Meth to help reduce IAT for starters then a 50shot of N2O to REALLY get the temps down! would be like having an A2W setup with an ice box but whenever you wanted it! lol
Meth to help reduce IAT for starters then a 50shot of N2O to REALLY get the temps down! would be like having an A2W setup with an ice box but whenever you wanted it! lol
Chris.
haha thats what i was gonna say..meth nozzle in front of the turbo for lower IAT and octane. and spray a 50 shot through a plate/nozzle, the turbo will double it in tq
__________________ 02 Z28 A4 race weight 3500
bolt on boost pt70 ams-500 10.85 @125.86 Slowhawk tuned]
winter project-tranny,9in. and suspension
Apples vs oranges buddy.. Meth increases octane, and adds fuel which decreases detonation. Nitrous leans out the mixture and effectively increases detonation possibility. The only thing that they have in common is they both bring IATs down. A meth kit is not at all a big initial hit. You can get a very complete and comprehensive brand new kit for $500-600. Whats a new nitrous kit cost again? I average 1 gallon of meth every 1000 miles. I just filled up my 5 gallon reserve for $18 a couple weeks ago. That will most likely last me a year. Meth FTW IMO
__________________ 2002 Trans Am M6, forged 9.2:1 370, F1 procharger @ 12psi, comp SC2 cam, mild ported AFR 225 heads, MAC midlengths, Borla, full suspension, 3.73 12-bolt, Mecham Hood, 19x10 Polished CCW 505A's 700ish RWHP/ 600ish RWTQ (still ironing it out)
5.3L 8.6:1 comp. 11.4-11.6: AFR. Timing set at 19* No MAF.
15psi boost
w/o nitrous 10.5x's @ 128
w/ 50 shot 10.30's @ 131
My converter is a TCI streetfighter 4000 stall rebuilt by Coan. They told me to not even bother putting it back it cause it will never hold up. Hughes built me one and I had problems and sent it back so I threw the TCI back in. It works ok but im sure its losing some.
Meth vs Nitrous for FI 
