This isn't an LG vs VA Speed thread Ed. I back you guys more than you know, so please dont turn this into a war that it isn't.
You guys are the ONLY reason that gives 4 bolt guys hope. Kurt Urban, first car in the 6s, couldnt keep the heads on it. It pushed so much water, it needed a bypass valve on it to keep the coolant in the motor. He and Mike Moran are no dummies.
Lets look at the timeline of events- If O-Ringing was as good as you make it out to be, why were there even castings and blocks made with 6 bolt setups?! In order to make new blocks, new heads, new R&D, there had to be a reason. People dont make new parts unless there is a need. Necessity is the mother of invention, is it not?
Hey, Lets add 2 more bolts to our heads because we dont need to!
Why does phil run a 6 bolt setup? Why does Vee8 run a 6 bolt setup? Why does LMR run a 6 bolt setup? Why did Mightymouse swap to a 6 bolt?
If the 4 bolt setup is working, why are these pioneers running 6 bolt setups?
Again, lets step back, forget what you are selling, and see whats best for the consumer.
I deleted my post.
We're not talking about 4 bolt heads working in 2000 hp motors. We're talking about them working in 1000, 1200 hp motors. And they do.
You're talking about using 6 bolt blocks for 800 rwhp, as if THEY ARE REQUIRED, and they're not.
This isn't an LG vs VA Speed thread Ed. I back you guys more than you know, so please dont turn this into a war that it isn't.
You guys are the ONLY reason that gives 4 bolt guys hope. Kurt Urban, first car in the 6s, couldnt keep the heads on it. It pushed so much water, it needed a bypass valve on it to keep the coolant in the motor. He and Mike Moran are no dummies.
Lets look at the timeline of events- If O-Ringing was as good as you make it out to be, why were there even castings and blocks made with 6 bolt setups?! In order to make new blocks, new heads, new R&D, there had to be a reason. People dont make new parts unless there is a need. Necessity is the mother of invention, is it not?
Hey, Lets add 2 more bolts to our heads because we dont need to!
Why does phil run a 6 bolt setup? Why does Vee8 run a 6 bolt setup? Why does LMR run a 6 bolt setup? Why did Mightymouse swap to a 6 bolt?
If the 4 bolt setup is working, why are these pioneers running 6 bolt setups?
Again, lets step back, forget what you are selling, and see whats best for the consumer.
we have no issues with you Louis,LG is a great place and puts out some great work.
This is not about SELLING-it about giving people an alternative to buying a $2300.00 block and a new set of heads.If i can make what they currently have work-why not.
Just because you have not seen it personally does not make it impossible.
Technology progresses-things that were impossible 4 years ago are possible today-why can't this hold true in this case?
I never once said the 6 bolt wasn't better-just not always needed.
People makes parts because they can make MONEY on them-not always because they are needed-the whole idea is to make something and tell everybody that anything else will not work-it's called marketing.
I can make alot more money SELLINGan lsx block and machining it than i can doing some orings-you figure it out.
FYI-veee8's 1500hp STREET engine is 4 bolt with my oring setup-we only went with the 6 bolt on his race engine because he got a great deal on a 6 bolt c5r block and heads.
__________________ www.virginiaspeed.comcustom engines for street or race,tuning,installs,fabrication. check our our online store-i'm adding new products every day http://shop.virginiaspeed.com/main.sc757-468-5101 1979 Z28 Outlaw 10.5-670bbc twin promod 94's Crew Chief,engine builder,tuner of Phil Thomas's
LSX powered Mustang"The Renegade" 7.29, 198mph-best 1/8 et.4.70 @ 164mph 315 radials at 3275lbs
Last edited by Shawn @ VA Speed; 11-03-2009 at 12:37 PM..
This isn't an LG vs VA Speed thread Ed. I back you guys more than you know, so please dont turn this into a war that it isn't.
You guys are the ONLY reason that gives 4 bolt guys hope. Kurt Urban, first car in the 6s, couldnt keep the heads on it. It pushed so much water, it needed a bypass valve on it to keep the coolant in the motor. He and Mike Moran are no dummies.
Lets look at the timeline of events- If O-Ringing was as good as you make it out to be, why were there even castings and blocks made with 6 bolt setups?! In order to make new blocks, new heads, new R&D, there had to be a reason. People dont make new parts unless there is a need. Necessity is the mother of invention, is it not?
Hey, Lets add 2 more bolts to our heads because we dont need to!
Why does phil run a 6 bolt setup? Why does Vee8 run a 6 bolt setup? Why does LMR run a 6 bolt setup? Why did Mightymouse swap to a 6 bolt?
If the 4 bolt setup is working, why are these pioneers running 6 bolt setups?
Again, lets step back, forget what you are selling, and see whats best for the consumer.
300.00 bucks to oring a block vs 2100 for a new block. 2100.00 is a lot more money. what would you do, i can fix you motor setup for 300 bucks. or i can sell you a 2100.00 block, put 3k worth of heads on it. hours more of labor for assembly. you get the point. buick guys run tons of boost on 4 bolt heads, with orings, oring were popular and then fell off. ive always had great success with them. my cars nothing crazy fast, but 317s with an oring block, mls $39.99 a pair gaskets runs 6.0 at 119mph in full weight all day never pushing water. thats fast enough for the majority out there. even if i had a 6 bolt setup, i would still oring it.
300.00 bucks to oring a block vs 2100 for a new block. 2100.00 is a lot more money. what would you do, i can fix you motor setup for 300 bucks. or i can sell you a 2100.00 block, put 3k worth of heads on it. hours more of labor for assembly. you get the point. buick guys run tons of boost on 4 bolt heads, with orings, oring were popular and then fell off. ive always had great success with them. my cars nothing crazy fast, but 317s with an oring block, mls $39.99 a pair gaskets runs 6.0 at 119mph in full weight all day never pushing water. thats fast enough for the majority out there. even if i had a 6 bolt setup, i would still oring it.
that reminds me,Phil's motor blew a head gasket with the 6 bolt and mls after 10 passes.This year after 30 passes with ALOT more boost my double oring setup in still going stong
__________________ www.virginiaspeed.comcustom engines for street or race,tuning,installs,fabrication. check our our online store-i'm adding new products every day http://shop.virginiaspeed.com/main.sc757-468-5101 1979 Z28 Outlaw 10.5-670bbc twin promod 94's Crew Chief,engine builder,tuner of Phil Thomas's
LSX powered Mustang"The Renegade" 7.29, 198mph-best 1/8 et.4.70 @ 164mph 315 radials at 3275lbs
Do you o-ring the block or the heads or both? can you do this and raise the cc of the head to lower compression? Just asking because I have L92 heads and I am running 10.25:1 compression ratio and I would like to lower the compression as much as possible and put more boost to it to hit 800+rwhp.
__________________ 2002 WS6 T/A 408 Iron block, 80# injectors, Fast 92TB, Ported L92/LS3 heads, GM Single Plane Intake, Black Label Fuel rails, Ross Pistons, Eagle Rods, Eagle 4" Shaft, 230/240 114 center, DIY Rear Mount GT-88With FMI, DIY daul 340 Walbro pumps, Self tuning with HP Tuners, Built 4L60E, Moser 9", 3.70 gear with Strange Pro Spool.
Okay so high cylinder pressure makes the engine push water... does the compression ratio effect cylinder pressure... like it does the threshold for detonation? Would dropping the compression ratio let you run more hp before you push water?
Do you o-ring the block or the heads or both? can you do this and raise the cc of the head to lower compression? Just asking because I have L92 heads and I am running 10.25:1 compression ratio and I would like to lower the compression as much as possible and put more boost to it to hit 800+rwhp.
my last setup, 25psi, pt88 on a 370cu with 6.0 heads, only had the block oringed. the heads were stock. The l92 setup i having done right now with have a receiver groove cut into the head to the oring to go into ., i also beat the crap out of that 370, never pushed a drop.
Anyone have a written process for o-ringing (drawing)? Like the double setup? What o-rings? Part numbers? I'd pay the $300. to have it done but I think it would be costly to ship my stuff from WI. And any machine shop in this area I have to make a detailed print what I want done and even what I dont want machined and then babysit them to make sure they do it right.
__________________ 99 Transam - 5.3L w/ GT45 -10.76 @ 128 w/ 1.83 60ft and broke something.
99 Vette FRC - stock
72 Nova -New twin setup in the works. (former turbo 5.3) FS/Trade? 02 Yamaha R6 Red/Blk - $3600
that reminds me,Phil's motor blew a head gasket with the 6 bolt and mls after 10 passes.This year after 30 passes with ALOT more boost my double oring setup in still going stong
I know its not related... to a gas motor... but the duramax uses really 5 bolts per cylinder, sharing 2 bolts between each piston. 22 bolts in total to hold each head on. I run 30-32 PSI boost stock with my race tune... I'm sure my cylinder pressures are up there.
