Fuel pressure is great, right around 58psi at all times. It's not the tune stoping it from starting, I'm sure it might idle better after a tune but it should be able to run with the tune it has now. I'm sure the spark plugs are good but it might not idle great with the tr10s but should still run so I don't think it's them either. It is a very good chance it's the 3 bar map sensor. That will be the first thing I'm going to try.
The other thing I was thinking is it may not be getting enough air because there is no hole in the tb and the iac sensor is a remote mount so the only air it's getting is at the back of the intake where I have the remote iac tapped into. Most people don't know what that is because most tb's have them built in but it basically is what controls how much air goes past the tb at idle. I had to mount mine in a different spot so I have an air line comming off the intake pipe going to the remote mount block that has the iac sensor in it. Then an air line goes from there to the back of the intake. I couldn't find anyone on here that has one like this so I hope I installed it correctly. The only thing that makes this not a good possibility of being the problem is that opening the throttle actually seems to kill it quicker? It's got to be the map sensor, I'm going to try that first.
Fuel pressure is great, right around 58psi at all times. It's not the tune stoping it from starting, I'm sure it might idle better after a tune but it should be able to run with the tune it has now. I'm sure the spark plugs are good but it might not idle great with the tr10s but should still run so I don't think it's them either. It is a very good chance it's the 3 bar map sensor. That will be the first thing I'm going to try.
The other thing I was thinking is it may not be getting enough air because there is no hole in the tb and the iac sensor is a remote mount so the only air it's getting is at the back of the intake where I have the remote iac tapped into. Most people don't know what that is because most tb's have them built in but it basically is what controls how much air goes past the tb at idle. I had to mount mine in a different spot so I have an air line comming off the intake pipe going to the remote mount block that has the iac sensor in it. Then an air line goes from there to the back of the intake. I couldn't find anyone on here that has one like this so I hope I installed it correctly. The only thing that makes this not a good possibility of being the problem is that opening the throttle actually seems to kill it quicker? It's got to be the map sensor, I'm going to try that first.
It's lean IMHO. Also check your TPS after you check your MAP sensor. And don't drill any holes in your T/B before you get it re-tuned.
It's lean IMHO. Also check your TPS after you check your MAP sensor. And don't drill any holes in your T/B before you get it re-tuned.
I think it might actually be rich not lean, just because the plugs seem to be getting soaked. It seemed to do best on my first start-up and then I had issues so I took out the plugs, cleaned them up and then it started pretty good again but then got worse after running for a few seconds. Same thing happens after it sits for a day or two. It will start up good the first try and then dies and gets worse every time I try to start it. Maybe these tr10s just aren't hot enough to ignight the fuel and thats why they are getting soaked. I'll have to swap in some tr6s and see what that does.
Also, what would the TPS have to do with this issue? My throttle is slightly cracked open because the throttle cable is just a touch too tight. I need to adjust it by the pedal just a little bit, I just thought that would make it idle a little higher but if the TPS will cause a problem because it's sensing the throttle is cracked open a little, that could be a possibility as well.
Hey Rufretic ! I know you must remember the guy who hooked you up with that pretty blowaaa Sorry to see you had that clearance issue. The trials and tribulations are what makes the power all worth while ! Perhaps its time to get that baby down to a shop that has a dyno so you can see if she is running lean or rich.
Hey Rufretic ! I know you must remember the guy who hooked you up with that pretty blowaaa Sorry to see you had that clearance issue. The trials and tribulations are what makes the power all worth while ! Perhaps its time to get that baby down to a shop that has a dyno so you can see if she is running lean or rich.
I'd like to take it the shop but I was planning to drive it there. Plus they pretty much told me my 950rwhp fuel set-up isn't going to cut it and they didn't want to touch it until the fuel was upgraded and they are not too confident in the stock 317s either. I'm not going to be able to do that until the spring so for now I just want it to run so I can at least pull it out of the garage and clean up the mess I made lol.
Location: In the garage, working towards a 2900 lb raceweight :D
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I'd try putting a set of #7 heat range plugs in it, at least to get it started, and then see about your iac/map sensors possibly being a problem.
The fuel soak that the plugs is bad news, that can wash cylinders down if you're not careful.
If you can adjust the regulator, try turning the fuel pressure down a little too, make sure you're not flooding it out somehow, anything is possible. Get that fuel pressure down to 45 and see if the car will start and idle there, that and a warmer plug will tell you if it's too rich or not.
As for the fuel system, I don't know what you have on the car for a pump and whatnot, but I'd have at least one aeromotive eliminator pump on there, or 2 a1000's, something like that, with a -10 feed line and a -6 or -8 return with a good regulator, and I'd run at least 110 octane fuel in it right away I wouldn't even bother with pump gas that's totally out of the question at this point.
You've come a long way with this build and it is impressive for a first attempt that is for sure, don't give up now you're not that far away from having it up and running
First pass at the track and you're gonna be getting seriously sent home, to get a TON of safety stuff upgraded, that I am sure of once it's working right.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rod
First off Hp/L is ricer math, and is pretty much useless
I'd try putting a set of #7 heat range plugs in it, at least to get it started, and then see about your iac/map sensors possibly being a problem.
The fuel soak that the plugs is bad news, that can wash cylinders down if you're not careful.
If you can adjust the regulator, try turning the fuel pressure down a little too, make sure you're not flooding it out somehow, anything is possible. Get that fuel pressure down to 45 and see if the car will start and idle there, that and a warmer plug will tell you if it's too rich or not.
As for the fuel system, I don't know what you have on the car for a pump and whatnot, but I'd have at least one aeromotive eliminator pump on there, or 2 a1000's, something like that, with a -10 feed line and a -6 or -8 return with a good regulator, and I'd run at least 110 octane fuel in it right away I wouldn't even bother with pump gas that's totally out of the question at this point.
You've come a long way with this build and it is impressive for a first attempt that is for sure, don't give up now you're not that far away from having it up and running
First pass at the track and you're gonna be getting seriously sent home, to get a TON of safety stuff upgraded, that I am sure of once it's working right.
Good info, thank you. I was planning on running c16 at all times, the car doesn't get much street time anyway so gas price is not a big concern. I can try adjusting the fuel, I know my fuel regulator is adjustable, I just never messed with it before. I'll give that a try and change the plugs. If it doesn't change much then I can try a new map sensor.
And yes, I probably won't get to make many passes before getting kicked out and needing a bunch of saftey stuff. I'll be taking it easy at first anyway just test it out and just do some shake downs before I even get close to trying to make a full pass. I want the safety stuff on it anyway, it's just so expensive
great build...beautiful set up fo' sho'!
not sure this will help, but nothing worth having comes easy.
and learning only comes through pain...it won't come any other way.
wisdom comes with age,...and lastly, if i may quote Confusious...
"man who fart in church, sit in pue"!
you'll work out the kinks to find a new set of kinks...
this is the world of boys and thier toys...
you gotta love it!
keep your head up my man...your right there.
You may not believe in just lowering the fuel pressure will help but I promise you this it really does. I have my pressure set at 28 right now until I get tuned. Turn the adjuster on the top (clockwise I believe) and just watch the gauge I have my second pump wired so it runs at all time when I flip a switch so it is much easier from me to adjust my pressure. You may need a second person to help you
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You may not believe in just lowering the fuel pressure will help but I promise you this it really does. I have my pressure set at 28 right now until I get tuned. Turn the adjuster on the top (clockwise I believe) and just watch the gauge I have my second pump wired so it runs at all time when I flip a switch so it is much easier from me to adjust my pressure. You may need a second person to help you
I think I'll be able to adjust it fairly easy because it shoots up to 58 just turning the key then holds. I'll have to adjust it a little and then turn the key and see where it's at and repeat until I get it where I want it.
I tried adjusting the fuel pressure. At 40psi it acted about the same so I tried 30psi and then 20psi and it just got worse so I went back to where it was before. I took out the plugs and they where soaked with fuel again. I took some pics of them but didn't get a chance to upload them. I think they get fouled out more each time I try to start it, that's why it starts good at first but then it's either getting too much fuel or the plug just isn't hot enough and it gets flooded. Then it gets harder to start each time after that. I'm going to pick up a hotter plug today and see what that does.
I'd suggest going back to the basics at this point. Remove the charge pipe. Put in a known working 1 bar MAP sensor from a buddy's car and get the thing to idle properly NA. You should not have to mess with fuel pressure. Also, I didn't go back and read the entire thread but are you still running in closed loop? If so and one or both of your stock O2's have taken a shit, it will dump tons of fuel. I assume you have some sort of tuning software. Remember that race gas is harder to burn also. Might want to empty the tank and put some 93 oct in there. Just until you can get it to idle NA.
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I'm not that possitive how it's tuned other than it's speed density with no maf and that it's tune is 3 bar to go with my 3 bar sensor. So going to a 1 bar sensor doesn't really make sence because I'm not going to change my tune. This tune should run fine, I already talked to my tuner about the changes made to the car and he said the same tune will run. It's got to be the plugs, wires, bad sensor or that it just isn't getting enough air.
Location: In the garage, working towards a 2900 lb raceweight :D
Posts: 11,464
Start with some warmer plugs, and gap them at 35. You'll end up needing colder ones and a tighter gap for sure once you get it running, but the warmer plug with a bigger gap will to a TON for how the car will start/run, epsecially if the startup tune is way rich, which it sounds like there's something going on there IMO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Rod
First off Hp/L is ricer math, and is pretty much useless
Hope you get it worked out and hope it's just the plugs causing it. Just food for thought though on your tune, the only variable thats the same on your new setup is the fuel system. Motor, blower, cam, intake, tranny, etc is all different, it could still be the tune especially an SD tune made for your last setup with no MAF to adjust anything. Do you have data logging software to see whats going on?
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Sorry to see you had that clearance issue. The trials and tribulations are what makes the power all worth while ! Perhaps its time to get that baby down to a shop that has a dyno so you can see if she is running lean or rich.
. I'm not going to be able to do that until the spring so for now I just want it to run so I can at least pull it out of the garage and clean up the mess I made lol.
