Doug, I read every single post, but didn't see you post any data at all. So how much is the pressure dropping? What cycle duty are your injectors at? How much timing is in the car when you start to hear the popping sound/crackling sounds?
Fact is, you're still relying on everyone else to figure out what's wrong with you car.
It certainly sounds like Ron is going to help you out and take care of the issues. I've had nothing but limited positive interactions with Ron and am not bashing him or you at all. Just trying to help you help yourself, but I guess you're not interested.
EDIT: Ron I wasn't bashing you or Doug. I actually feel bad for Doug or any enthusist who gets treated like this. It's the reason why I try to be as informed as possible prior to any discussions so that I'm an educated consumer with as much data as possible.
Exactly i am not bashing either, but you were/are holding back information which everyone here is trying to help, but going to bigger headers/heads/cam will make more power that wont be a secret there
good luck with the new set up, cant wait to see the results
Do you know where they installed the knock sensors? This could be the reason they aren't picking up any knock.
Also, I hear ya on the hand shake (Livernois). If someone doesn't shake my hand when extended, to me that a huge dis!! Even if he's a germaphobe, he could at least tell ya!!!
Do you know where they installed the knock sensors? This could be the reason they aren't picking up any knock.
Also, I hear ya on the hand shake (Livernois). If someone doesn't shake my hand when extended, to me that a huge dis!! Even if he's a germaphobe, he could at least tell ya!!!
Ed
I can vaguely remember LG telling me the reasons behind charging me for knock sensors. Something about LS1 Knock Sensors are in the valley, and LS2 Knock sensors are on the side ?? Does that sound right ?
Someone on here pm'd me about the Knock sensors being tuned out ?? Not sure, I guess we'll check that.
__________________ 2000 FRC LS2 402 - 541 rwhp 505 rwtq Tuned by Vengeance Racing
TFS 215's (59cc) Custom Cam, 1 7/8 ARH, Ported FAST 92, UD Pully, EWP
RPS Street Twin Lite, and Pfadt Coil overs, Sways, bushings kit, RPM Stg III
For all your Performance needs:Vengeance Racing678 513 7105 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...s-results.html
I can vaguely remember LG telling me the reasons behind charging me for knock sensors. Something about LS1 Knock Sensors are in the valley, and LS2 Knock sensors are on the side ?? Does that sound right ?
Someone on here pm'd me about the Knock sensors being tuned out ?? Not sure, I guess we'll check that.
Most of the time the LS1 knock sensors are just relocated.
It's also possible they were desensitized to the point of not functioning. Hard to say without seeing where they are, and looking at the tune.
Ls1 knock sensor should be in the valley,ls2 on the side. You have a ls2 block correct Doug? VENGEANCE is doing a shit load lot of extra work from the way it sounds. Should be pretty interesting when it is done.
Well Ron wanted it that way to better illustrate the actual gains by each mod. Real world testing, real world data. How about everyone cough up a buck and send it to Vengeance Racing for the extra effort ?? No other shop is going to do it. Maybe people will look at the dedication to putting out true A-B comparisons on part swaps, not best guess scenarios like some because they change several things and then claim the heads are responsible for the gains. Anyways this type of energy and enthusiasm to help people out should be reason enough to spend your hard earned money at Vengeance Racing !!!
__________________ 2000 FRC LS2 402 - 541 rwhp 505 rwtq Tuned by Vengeance Racing
TFS 215's (59cc) Custom Cam, 1 7/8 ARH, Ported FAST 92, UD Pully, EWP
RPS Street Twin Lite, and Pfadt Coil overs, Sways, bushings kit, RPM Stg III
For all your Performance needs:Vengeance Racing678 513 7105 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...s-results.html
First of all, Im no idiot. All of you arm chair Quarter backs, please step back, and take a deep breath. It sickens me to see some of the bullshit tossed around in this thread.
That stock pump WILL HANDLE the power, WITH OUT A DOUBT, that dougs car was going to make. Infact, it did when it left. It had ZERO fuel supply issues, with a 1.20 PE, and an AFR of 12.3!!!!! 12.6 at peak Tq. and NO fuel pressure drop off. I check that stuff, I have been doing this quite some time. But Gee, you would never know that by some of the beyond idiotic responses in this worthless drivel of a thread. yes, I am very upset, if you cannot tell.
As for the KR, its obviously due to LACK OF FUEL from an unknown cause??! water in the fuel hurt the pump? Ground, or power wire issues that popped up after? Maybe the pump failed? Did we think about that one? I mean, stock cars have fuel pumps fail!
The car had 21 @ Peak Tq, and 23 at peak power. Yea, thats Crazy Timing for an 11:1 motor with a DCR under 9. Were such a worthless shop shipping cars that we have no clue how to tune
Doug forgets that back in 2005 or 2006 when he originally did heads/cam, He could not afford to pay for everything when it was said and done. We let the car leave, and he was allowed to slowly pay off his bill. How is that for a stand up shop Gentlemen? Seriously, do you see the shit Im being put through right now with this bullshit thread? Do you see why Im upset? Dont you guys think I have a right to be upset?
Unfortunately I was out of town when doug picked up his car. I do not, and am not aware of any issues what so ever when it left. My guys would do anything any customer asked of them if they were getting ready to drive CROSS COUNTRY with a new combo. I put PLENTY of miles on his car making sure it was in tip top shape. It left in tip top shape, as you can see by the timing table and final dyno graph. No butchery, no bullshit, nothing but a quality combo that made Sick power for what it was.
Louis
__________________ Louis@LGMotorsports.com 972-429-1963
Cyber Grey 09 Z06 Stock for now....
01 SS A4
520/520 SAE Dynojet 2 psi, 402 CID LS3|G7x1 cam| 11.0:1 SCR|PT88| 4" down pipe|Stock catback just getting started www.LGMotorsports.com www.LGMRacing.com
First of all, Im no idiot. All of you arm chair Quarter backs, please step back, and take a deep breath. It sickens me to see some of the bullshit tossed around in this thread.
That stock pump WILL HANDLE the power, WITH OUT A DOUBT, that dougs car was going to make. Infact, it did when it left. It had ZERO fuel supply issues, with a 1.20 PE, and an AFR of 12.3!!!!! 12.6 at peak Tq.
and NO fuel pressure drop off. I check that stuff, I have been doing this quite some time. But Gee, you would never know that by some of the beyond idiotic responses in this worthless drivel of a thread. yes, I am very upset, if you cannot tell.
As for the KR, its obviously due to LACK OF FUEL from an unknown cause??! water in the fuel hurt the pump? Ground, or power wire issues that popped up after? Maybe the pump failed? Did we think about that one? I mean, stock cars have fuel pumps fail!
The car had 21 @ Peak Tq, and 23 at peak power. Yea, thats Crazy Timing for an 11:1 motor with a DCR under 9. Were such a worthless shop shipping cars that we have no clue how to tune
Doug forgets that back in 2005 or 2006 when he originally did heads/cam, He could not afford to pay for everything when it was said and done. We let the car leave, and he was allowed to slowly pay off his bill. How is that for a stand up shop Gentlemen? Seriously, do you see the shit Im being put through right now with this bullshit thread? Do you see why Im upset? Dont you guys think I have a right to be upset?
Unfortunately I was out of town when doug picked up his car. I do not, and am not aware of any issues what so ever when it left. My guys would do anything any customer asked of them if they were getting ready to drive CROSS COUNTRY with a new combo. I put PLENTY of miles on his car making sure it was in tip top shape. It left in tip top shape, as you can see by the timing table and final dyno graph. No butchery, no bullshit, nothing but a quality combo that made Sick power for what it was.
Louis
And that's the reason why I asked for data. Post a data log showing the fuel pressure dropping, then go from there and determine root cause. Sorry Doug, but again, this is why you need to step up and figure out exactly what's going on with your car so you don't have to place blame where it's not due.
Just about everytime I drive my car I data log, just to make sure things are working right. It's far from factory stock anymore, and things can go wrong.
Log some data and see exactly what's happening at your 3500 rpm / half throttle position. It seems like something isn't right that you can let the rpms rise. You say you saw the fuel pressure drop, but did you look at voltage as well? Maybe you have an alternator / battery issue.
Again, not trying to put you down, but trying to help you see that there could be other issues. Something deffinitely changed since you left LGM since they were able to dyno it without an issue.
Also, didn't your stock cube setup make ~490rwhp? So if you had a bad fuel pump, it would have shown there as well. I can't beleive you're making 490 rwhp at 3500rpm and half throttle.
Something just doesn't sound right. But I'm sure Ron will get to the bottom of it and you'll be happy.
Wow Louis, be mad all you want but I called, emailed, pm'd and left messages totaling approximately 100 attempts and now that you hear I had a problem with the car you finally respond. Wow!
Louis is telling the truth about me in 05 and 06 being allowed to leave with a balance of 1300+ in 05 and 6600 in 06. I did not pay it off slowly, it took 2 weeks and 6 weeks respectively. That's part of the reason I was so pissed that for 1500 and change my car had to sit and wait for me to come get it when it could be brought back as originally talked about if the timing was right. By the history of paying off and maintaining excellent communication with your father I was shocked that I had to take time off work, by a ticket, and then drive home which all added up to a huge loss for me over a balance of 1500. I could understand if it I was a new customer, and/or screwed you over in the past, but I never did. I've spent in the range of 35000 at LGM. You could've done me a huge favor by giving me the 10 days I requested and the money would've been in your hands. Oh well things change, the economy is bad and you are running a business not a charity.
On the fuel pump issue. It may have very well been ok when you finished it. However something was awry when I was driving it at the time of pickup, but it was so slight I didn't know what I heard. I attempted to get someone to go for a ride with me but no one could spare 5 mins. I was also told that the car is perfect, don't worry so much, we took care of you. The slap in the face came after I had been home for awhile and after doing the oil change I decide to test her out now that I have my Drag radials on. Fresh oil change, stickier tires, bad ass motor, wow I can't wait. Comes out of the hole very mean, I was quite impressed. Then it began to make the strange noises I have been talking about once it got in the 3800-4000 rpm range. When I call you guys Bobby answers the phone and when I start to explain my situation he says to everyone in the office hey guys Doug the worry wart is on the phone and all you hear is laughter. Bobby and I are/were friends not sure what the situation is after this and to laugh and make jokes at my expense is not professional at all. Anthony got on the phone after I decided to call back later, he really tried to diagnose everything for me over the phone and was very understanding and professional. Too bad Anthony wasn't there when I had picked up the car. I babied the car all the way home and never heard a strange noise at all. Just pure sex from the smooth exhaust note. Once I changed the oil and got on it the problems started to become obvious. I had sent Louis numerous emails, pm's, messages etc and never got to talk to him, and you'd think spending the money I was spending and had already spent he'd have been happy to talk to me. Sadly to say this is the first time I have talked to him. I don't want to bash Louis because he has seriously hooked me up on a few occasions. Credit for my block, free cam for cam swap, credit for my catback, and several other things. The point I am making is I made several attempts to have a fuel pump upgrade done so I would feel safe about my new motor. My stock pump had been working hard ever since 2005 and I believe it was fatigued and or is failing. I also had to insist upon upgrading from 30#svos to 42# injectors. I didn't feel safe with the 30's. I also had a line lock ordered. Not billed and not installed. I was assured the the bill would be modified and the line lock would be installed, again it wasn't. I really wanted it to make it easier to heat the rear tires for the track. You know make it idiot proof. I just wish I had been able to speak to Louis about my wishes on my engine build, I am the one paying the bill. I didn't say Louis do some experimenting and I'll pay the bill. I feel had I been listened to about wanting to upgrade my fuel pump for a few hundred more dollars and labor costs none of this would be happening. Louis and crew have treated me like family since 2005 all the more reason I was pissed off for being laughed at and not taken seriously about my complaints, and none of my messages to Louis were ever answered. If this is a bit of a ramble I am sorry, but I am pretty upset that certain facts are being left out. Mainly how Louis never responded to approximately 100 messages sent to and left for him. Anthony was the only one that tried to help. For 600 bucks I'd have had a new beyond up to the task fuel pump and all of this could've been avoided had LGM just talked to there most supportive customer.
Louis thank you for all the hook ups over the years, but you let me down with the poor communication until now.
Anthony, you are the man in the office, and thanks for the apology and being sympathetic to how I feel.
Bobby, you and I were like brothers man, I am still in your debt for giving me a place to stay in 06. Why do you think I did so many referrals to you (so you can get that commission), plus you guys are still a great shop I just happened to have had a bad experience because my wishes weren't listend to completely. Basically a victim of bad circumstances.
Mike R, you are the shipping master, thanks for getting my wheels/tires home so quickly.
Sean You should be tech of the year for the amazing amount of work you put in for me in 2006 in such a short time. Thats why I took you out to dinner bro.
Mikey, we didn't talk much but keep up the good work.
Lou, thanks for the generosity you showed me in 05 and 06, but it seems things have changed.
Jonathan, thanks for the ride from the airport, and keep up that diet we discussed. You are doing great.
Sorry for all of this, but what can a person do when he is not taken seriously and his wishes are not met and keep in mind that I am the one paying the bill...........Even if what I am asking for is not the best, if I am paying for it then you should do it with the explanation that I am taking a risk and LGM assumes no responsibility. Asking to upgrade my fuel pump and injectors is not a hard request. Just add it to the bill. What a shame.
__________________ 2000 FRC LS2 402 - 541 rwhp 505 rwtq Tuned by Vengeance Racing
TFS 215's (59cc) Custom Cam, 1 7/8 ARH, Ported FAST 92, UD Pully, EWP
RPS Street Twin Lite, and Pfadt Coil overs, Sways, bushings kit, RPM Stg III
For all your Performance needs:Vengeance Racing678 513 7105 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...s-results.html
Last edited by allngn_c5; 06-02-2009 at 09:52 PM..
Louis what do you have to say about when the a/c is turned on it causes the RPMS to shoot up and hold at 3000 rpms ?? How about the stalling I am experiencing ? For the time you guys had the car those issues shouldn't have been present. Slight surging I can accept, it is expected when running a decent sized cam.
No worries, just remember all of this could've been avoided had you just answered an email, pm, or phone call. The worst thing is that we'd be on LS1tech at the same time, I'd click your name and it showed "activity" reading private message from allngn_c5. Well if you took the time to read it, then why didn't you respond ?? I am at a loss. Read it and ignore it, why? Oh well, its all done now. A couple more grand out of my pocket (courtesy of the members that bought my parts THANKS) and she'll be perfect.
Keep in mind that I am not saying anything negative about the quality of the build. Just saying that I as the customer was not listened too about what I wanted done. Vengeance assures me that they will do what I ask, and price for the work is very fair. Again sorry it had to go down like this. Maybe if I was a Texas local instead of a Michigan resident you'd have been a little more willing to listen because I'd be able to drop in anytime and talk to you face to face vs hoping for a response via email or pm etc.
Please lock this thread Pat G or whoever.
__________________ 2000 FRC LS2 402 - 541 rwhp 505 rwtq Tuned by Vengeance Racing
TFS 215's (59cc) Custom Cam, 1 7/8 ARH, Ported FAST 92, UD Pully, EWP
RPS Street Twin Lite, and Pfadt Coil overs, Sways, bushings kit, RPM Stg III
For all your Performance needs:Vengeance Racing678 513 7105 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...s-results.html
So if I got this straight...there might be fuel pump issues, so instead of fixing the fuel pump and moving on, you are replacing the heads, cam, headers, etc in addition to the fuel pump?
Don't get me wrong...I've spent money twice (and even more) on the same parts because I wasn't happy the first time around, but this sounds a bit excessive.
__________________ Steve Meents
2002 Camaro SS - Built using advice from the internet. Runs 14s.
2007 Toyota Tacoma - Beater
Quote:
Originally Posted by nncfan8
Looks like a 300c butt fucked a solstice and this is their retarded love child.
I am very busy. I have a major ADD problem, and I am not the best when it comes to returning peoples calls, or following up. I sit in the dyno room and research and develop new parts, products and methods for LGM. My brain goes a million mph, its what gives me the creativity, but hinders the reliability.
Thats why I have a sales staff and techs. We operate with over 10 full time employees, so that I do not have to worry about follow ups other than what I do on the message boards, which are 99% of the time forwarded to the sales guys, and any questions they have, they ask me, and report back to the customer.
Times are very tough doug. Given your current personal issues at home, the terrible economy, the pay cut everyone at LGM got, and the reduction in hours, we could not be left footing any portion of your bill no matter how reliable you had been in the past. Sorry brother, its nothing personal, its just business.
As for your high Idle, the TB kicked my ass. Strait up, no joke, I faught and faught with it day after day, cold start up after cold start up for almost a month since we had the car for a bit of time. It was not perfect, but it was damn good given the baseline I had to start with.
I am not sure what to tell you doug. Bashing LGM after everything we did for you and everything you did for us certainly was not the right thing to do.
If you know LGM, you know we strive to make things right if they go wrong.
I bought your old motor. I hooked you up on the catback, I swapped cams no charge, I tried to give you the best combo given the monetary budget I was handed. Quite frankly, It kicked fucking ass. Reused your old 58cc 205s, updated the cam, tested some exhaust on it, swapped the TBs like underwear, all in the name of Rear wheel HP, and trying to take care of Doug because He has taken care of us.
I let YOU pay the driver to bring the car down here in october because I didnt need to make any money on it, I just wanted to hook you up. I couldnt give parts for free, or big discounts, all I could do was cheap labor and let you make the deals to keep me, the middle man, out of it.
Thats all doug, nothing more. We never meant any harm. The discussions we have had on the phone is due to you being treated like a brother here, always busting balls, but in the end, taking care of you no matter what. I know you know that.
As for you not getting a fuel pump? We were indeed on a MAJOR budget with your car. We have NEVER needed one for your combo. Why do we need to spend the money on that, when we, as a shop, have never needed one for your power level? WE tried to get your back on everything we did with that car Doug, that included not selling you a fuel pump and the labor, when it wasnt needed.
Take care
Louis
__________________ Louis@LGMotorsports.com 972-429-1963
Cyber Grey 09 Z06 Stock for now....
01 SS A4
520/520 SAE Dynojet 2 psi, 402 CID LS3|G7x1 cam| 11.0:1 SCR|PT88| 4" down pipe|Stock catback just getting started www.LGMotorsports.com www.LGMRacing.com
Let's try to give this thread some closure. Great reply Louis.
__________________ 2009 Pontiac G8 GT Vararam, EFI Live tuned, Cruising in 4 cylinder mode, hauling on 8. 2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAEMods list, Idle Sound Clip, WOT video, 183.092mph video 2007 Suburban 5.3L K&N FIPK, EFI Live tuned for max power and fuel economy. 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 sold: 12.12@112.70mph, 150.942mph Texas Mile. LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here. Custom LSX drivability & dyno tuning by appointment only.
just getting started 
until you know what you are talking about bro.
