I dont konow if this has been answered in this thread (21 pages is getting too long to read in full, sorry):
There are some "boxes" on the market that claims that when connected you can run anything from straight E85 to straight gasoline.
As I understand, what these boxes do is to richen the overall fuel delivery and relying on the fuel trims to be able to compensate.
My question is this: On a stock LQ4 engine would it be enough to richen the VE table by say 10% ?? I was thinking it is no need to buy a $450 box if I can do the same with my HP Tuner.
Here in Norway it is not practical to tune for straight E85 since there is only a few gas stations that carry E85 unlike in Sweden where it is all over the place......
NO, you should increase by 30% if you want to run E85. But it is easier and better to change your stoich to 9,8.
But if you want to run gas also then add 15% to ve, but remember that the PCM and stock lambda dont work very well over 4000rpm.
__________________ Black Pontiac Trans Am WS.7 - Runs on E85 And soon to be powered by Twin Turbos.
Hello from Sweden.... How to run your LS1 on E85
ok, so i changed my stoch AFR to 19.7 (max in ls1edit is 20) i know have a 10.9 to 1 AFR commanded. i bumped my WOT vs RPM to 1.402 (havent done any WOT yet). it seems to not be too far away i still have about 15%-20% 93 in it. LTFTS are -13 at the moment
__________________ ZL 402 ls6 heads p+p 2.02/1.575 full roller yella terra, 11:9 C.R.,224/228 .535 .538 114 LSA cam, exo-skel clutch,102mm lid, 85mm MAF, bellow, k+n, p+p 82mmTB,ls6 intake, 42# injectors, pacesetter LT's coated headers, 2.5 true dual W/H pipe and dual cut outs, BMR torque arm,SFC/s panhard bar, control arms, and shock tower brace, , HAL drag shocks, ASP pulleys, 4.10 gears, B&M ripper, ls6 slave, mcleod adj. master, Evans t-stat and water pump.150 shot soon! Atap/LS1edit
The commanded value is only a reference point for the PCM. The o2 sensors are there to tell the PCM if the AFR is stoich or not. You have extra gas in the tank, you said 15-20%, your Fuel trims are at -13% so they are adding 13% more fuel because the o2 sensor tells them thats how much fuel is needed for the AFR to be stoich.
Your messured AFR is 10.9, if you had 20% gas added to the E-85 you put in, that would make the ethanol/gas blend 35% gas and 65% ethanol.
The stoich value for E-65 would be right around 10.9
Your car is running the way it is supposed to.
Run out the tank you are on until it is nearly empty, then refill it with E-85 and you will be right where you want to be.
You should not set the stoich value to anything but stoich. If you are having fueling issues you need to tune the car.
If after the new tank your AFR is still off, there are lots of ways to fix the fueling, some better than others.
People will change the injector table or the MAF table or tune the VE table or all of the above. If you don't know how to do this, I suggest do alot of reading/learning before you try. It's not hard to make a mess of things, the PCM will make the adjustments for you until then.
When I switched my truck over, all I changed was the stoich value and it runs fine. I haven't checked it with my wide band to confirm it's right but I just passed emissions so why bother. I have my hands full with my car right now.
ya, i wanted to get the stoich set to 9.76. After that i adjust the LTFT's the best i can with the MAF tables...i dont have a wide band so i make sure my PE table is rich and i dont mess with the VE tables.
__________________ ZL 402 ls6 heads p+p 2.02/1.575 full roller yella terra, 11:9 C.R.,224/228 .535 .538 114 LSA cam, exo-skel clutch,102mm lid, 85mm MAF, bellow, k+n, p+p 82mmTB,ls6 intake, 42# injectors, pacesetter LT's coated headers, 2.5 true dual W/H pipe and dual cut outs, BMR torque arm,SFC/s panhard bar, control arms, and shock tower brace, , HAL drag shocks, ASP pulleys, 4.10 gears, B&M ripper, ls6 slave, mcleod adj. master, Evans t-stat and water pump.150 shot soon! Atap/LS1edit
i dont understand what is so hard to tune,i set my stoich AFR to 9.673 and filled my tank with E85 tuned my idle to part throttle to 4000 in speed density with the LTFT and had it dammed near spot on in thirty minutes. was way easier than with regular gas and has ran great ever since i will not switch back to gas.
__________________ 2000Firebird,KOOKS 1 7/8,SLPloudmouthII,SDPC LS2 402,AFR 205,11:1comp,Crane gold series rockers,Comp cam solid roller 243int248exhaust+.653int,.648exh on 113 sep,FAST 90mm,NW90mm TB,Delphi 42#s,Turbo400 w/tb,Yank 3200,BMR K-Memb&Trans mount,GRANNETELI LCA's,Moser 12bolt3.73
HPTUNED
2007 Suzuki GSXR 750
Replacement O2 for LC-1 is Bosch 17014 $50 or for the pimple popn' kid behind the parts counter, tell him/her you have a 2001 VW Golf 1.8L and need the front/pre-cat sensor.
why would you tune it that way?thats wrong you should not have changed your MAF table till your VE table is correct?You have to tune your VE table first you do not need a wideband to tune part throttle only wide openthrottle with a wide band, your making it to hard remember the KISS principle Keep IT Simple Stupid!No insult intended
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000ws6transam
ya, i wanted to get the stoich set to 9.76. After that i adjust the LTFT's the best i can with the MAF tables...i dont have a wide band so i make sure my PE table is rich and i dont mess with the VE tables.
__________________ 2000Firebird,KOOKS 1 7/8,SLPloudmouthII,SDPC LS2 402,AFR 205,11:1comp,Crane gold series rockers,Comp cam solid roller 243int248exhaust+.653int,.648exh on 113 sep,FAST 90mm,NW90mm TB,Delphi 42#s,Turbo400 w/tb,Yank 3200,BMR K-Memb&Trans mount,GRANNETELI LCA's,Moser 12bolt3.73
HPTUNED
2007 Suzuki GSXR 750
Replacement O2 for LC-1 is Bosch 17014 $50 or for the pimple popn' kid behind the parts counter, tell him/her you have a 2001 VW Golf 1.8L and need the front/pre-cat sensor.
so after 22 pages of this thread im a little stumped. i just decided to throw about 10 gallons of e85 on top of my 93. just to see what happens. seems to run smoother, but under little or part throttle it seems to have a shudder or a miss. i have stock fuel system for now but to run full e85 i will need a pump. say 255 walbro or such and some bigger injectors. correct? the tuning is where i always spend almost all my time and i have unlimited dyno time so i will strap it down and spend a day reading the thread and playing with my hp tuners. as far as hard parts though what is needed?
__________________ 99 B4C
small cam_ebay lts_kn filter_slp lid_4.10s_T/A cover_eagle alloy 17x8 with 555R nittos.
12.98 1/4 2.0 60ft on 245 street tires before gears and dr's.
sounds like you need a tune usually a studder or miss is a indication of running lean. You have to remember its like a totally different fuel not just higher octane rating.
__________________ ZL 402 ls6 heads p+p 2.02/1.575 full roller yella terra, 11:9 C.R.,224/228 .535 .538 114 LSA cam, exo-skel clutch,102mm lid, 85mm MAF, bellow, k+n, p+p 82mmTB,ls6 intake, 42# injectors, pacesetter LT's coated headers, 2.5 true dual W/H pipe and dual cut outs, BMR torque arm,SFC/s panhard bar, control arms, and shock tower brace, , HAL drag shocks, ASP pulleys, 4.10 gears, B&M ripper, ls6 slave, mcleod adj. master, Evans t-stat and water pump.150 shot soon! Atap/LS1edit
i have a tune, it runs excellent on pump gas im just guessing it leaned out with the 10 gal of e85. thats what the miss was about, that didnt answer my question though on what hard parts were needed to run e85 besides a pump and injestors.
__________________ 99 B4C
small cam_ebay lts_kn filter_slp lid_4.10s_T/A cover_eagle alloy 17x8 with 555R nittos.
12.98 1/4 2.0 60ft on 245 street tires before gears and dr's.
I've been on E-85 in a GTO for 2.5+ years now. 1.5 FI.
Very simple, basic, FYI. You can use up to a 50/50 mix of gas/E-85 without doing ANYTHING to it. IE, tuning. The ECM will adjust to richen the mixture up to about 20%. Then you will get a CEL after going farther...
E-85 requires about 25-30% more fuel so, Moving from 30 to 40# injectors adds the correct amount with little to no tuning. But why buy injectors and not add some headroom?
I've ran Walbro pumps for over a year with E-85 without trouble.
At 11# of boost 92 octane with 3 gallons of E-85 added to the tank runs great and allows timing >20 degress.
At 15# of boost that mix gives out, more KR than total timing. I saw about 3 degrees total timing and lots of KR.
At 15# of boost on E-85, with 190 degree air intake temp, and 25 degrees of timing I had no KR. It's hard to get that much fuel flow though. 60# injectors and Walbro pump are all maxed out.
All on stock LS2 GTO engine.
__________________ 2005 GTO A4, $1600 DIY Master Power T-70 .96 A/R turbo in the rear, HPT, Nitto NT-05's, and E-85. 7.54@104 8th mile on 2.0 60ft street tires 15 psi.
I've been on E-85 in a GTO for 2.5+ years now. 1.5 FI.
Very simple, basic, FYI. You can use up to a 50/50 mix of gas/E-85 without doing ANYTHING to it. IE, tuning. The ECM will adjust to richen the mixture up to about 20%. Then you will get a CEL after going farther...
E-85 requires about 25-30% more fuel so, Moving from 30 to 40# injectors adds the correct amount with little to no tuning. But why buy injectors and not add some headroom?
I've ran Walbro pumps for over a year with E-85 without trouble.
At 11# of boost 92 octane with 3 gallons of E-85 added to the tank runs great and allows timing >20 degress.
At 15# of boost that mix gives out, more KR than total timing. I saw about 3 degrees total timing and lots of KR.
At 15# of boost on E-85, with 190 degree air intake temp, and 25 degrees of timing I had no KR. It's hard to get that much fuel flow though. 60# injectors and Walbro pump are all maxed out.
All on stock LS2 GTO engine.
Do you have hp numbers for your 15lbs?
__________________
SS Front Mount Turbo 179mph in standing mile.
Cobra 163 standing mile. January 3, 2010
Standing 1 mile runs MILEMARKER-1.com
Not yet, I have #'s for 6 psi. 480/560. I want to get enough fuel before I get #'s for 15. I could do 10 but $$$ wasted? I have track times in my sig for 15.
When I was N/A and bone stock I gained 20 hp and 30 tq with E-85. I have dyno charts posted on ls1gto.com
__________________ 2005 GTO A4, $1600 DIY Master Power T-70 .96 A/R turbo in the rear, HPT, Nitto NT-05's, and E-85. 7.54@104 8th mile on 2.0 60ft street tires 15 psi.
I'm not sure what you've got going on there but if you are having big problems Go back to the oem tune.
instead of messing with ve and maf, or stoich, I'd use the injector table first and leave stoich at 14.7.
If you moved from stock 30# injectors to #42 then that makes you %40 richer all by itself. It should be running about %10 rich with E-85 on the oem tune in that case. Close to where you need to be without any tuning AT ALL. Then all you need to do to get LTFT's right would be to lean it out about %10 across the board.
This all assumes you kept the OEM 4 bar fuel pressure.
__________________ 2005 GTO A4, $1600 DIY Master Power T-70 .96 A/R turbo in the rear, HPT, Nitto NT-05's, and E-85. 7.54@104 8th mile on 2.0 60ft street tires 15 psi.
Last edited by ericwilloughby; 11-11-2009 at 06:08 AM..
already did the adjustment and re-did my whole injector table one at a time for the 42# (what a pain in the arse) i have a stock tune to mess with, if i want to star all over again.
__________________ ZL 402 ls6 heads p+p 2.02/1.575 full roller yella terra, 11:9 C.R.,224/228 .535 .538 114 LSA cam, exo-skel clutch,102mm lid, 85mm MAF, bellow, k+n, p+p 82mmTB,ls6 intake, 42# injectors, pacesetter LT's coated headers, 2.5 true dual W/H pipe and dual cut outs, BMR torque arm,SFC/s panhard bar, control arms, and shock tower brace, , HAL drag shocks, ASP pulleys, 4.10 gears, B&M ripper, ls6 slave, mcleod adj. master, Evans t-stat and water pump.150 shot soon! Atap/LS1edit
I think all of "our" lines are nylon and thus ok. I don't see how the strainer/sock could ever be a choke point.
__________________ 2005 GTO A4, $1600 DIY Master Power T-70 .96 A/R turbo in the rear, HPT, Nitto NT-05's, and E-85. 7.54@104 8th mile on 2.0 60ft street tires 15 psi.
