money!
i planned out my forced induction route back when i was making about 1/3-1/4th of what i'm making now, but it seems like as soon as the money was available, my priorities became more clear than ever.
i'm still slowly heading in that direction and use nitrous in the meantime.
i've got 42lb injectors. next step is heads and a blower cam. thing is, i'm considering higher compression 5.3 heads and forgetting about the supercharger since i'm doubting i will ever be able to justify it given that i value streetability more these days.
if someone droppeed $50k in my lap, i'd probably have a dozen other uses for it before supercharging my camaro ever came to mind. a few years ago, i'd have it ordered before the money was in hand.
at 5800 feet, big displacement NA cars limp around gasping for air while little turbo cars run circles around them.
the air is so thin at that altitude you could run (little exaggeration) 15:1 compression with 40 degrees of timing on 85 octane.
in all seriousness, when i was in colorado last month i ran into a guy with an evo who ran 30lbs of boost on e85 with stock internals(?) and turbo. you almost have to go with forced induction at that altitude.
at 5800 feet, big displacement NA cars limp around gasping for air while little turbo cars run circles around them.
the air is so thin at that altitude you could run (little exaggeration) 15:1 compression with 40 degrees of timing on 85 octane.
in all seriousness, when i was in colorado last month i ran into a guy with an evo who ran 30lbs of boost on e85 with stock internals(?) and turbo. you almost have to go with forced induction at that altitude.
Ok but i still dont get what he was trying to say. It sounds like he is trying to say that at sea level, and turbo car isn't much of an advantage over a NA car.
Ok but i still dont get what he was trying to say. It sounds like he is trying to say that at sea level, and turbo car isn't much of an advantage over a NA car.
Hes saying that N/A cars are more venerable to the change in air density. So at a low altitude, if a N/A car and a FI car run the same times... with a change of altitude the FI car would lose less time then the N/A car, therefore the FI would be faster.
So if a N/A and a FI race at high elevation and are even, at low elevation the N/A would be faster.
I chose FI because i like everything about it... but also because its cheaper for higher horsepower.
How much would it cost to build a N/A car that is 600 or 700hp? Your talkin about building a large displacement $15-20k motor.
Now if your goal is 450-500hp its pretty easy w/ a stock block and makes sense to do N/A, but the cost gets exponentially more expensive with minimal hp gains.
The beginning of FI is very very frustrating. Getting everything running together and getting all the kinks out is very very tough. Its more draining mentally then anything else, because everytime something gets fix something else goes wrong. And many many people quit here. Eventually everything gets worked out... about the time you know every inch of the car... and its COMPLETELY worth it.
I voted money, but it's about 70% money, 20% not liking nitrous, and 10% that I think it's badass to have an all motor car. I could have already put nitrous on the car, but I don't like the idea of refilling bottles, worrying about bottle pressure, etc. If I had the money, though, I'd have put a blower or turbo on the car a long time ago.
__________________
2002 Z28 M6 - Full weight street car
Quote:
Originally Posted by w3s1c0a5t
And ya the rest of us hate you for all the action you get...
Dependability, I've pulled my 2jzgte engine in favor of an LS1 2001 SS engine.
I had a low mi jdm engine, I was constantly chasing down issues and rarley enjoying a daily ride that could haul butt.
The turbos were fun, but I want a car that I can put together and than drive, with only oil changes and tune ups.....
Now if you have the "Hook up" resources and an endless wallet and some one who can tune the engine/FI combo so it won't self detonate, and if all the little fragile pieces that keep this turbo engine running don't fail and destroy your engine, than and only than can your really enjoy a turbo driven engine.
BTW, chasing parts was a pita for the 2j, at least the LS1 has a lot of easily obtained parts, and that wonderful thing called displacement.
The LS1/2 rules for under ~600hp, after that it might not be a bad idea to use FI.
JMHO, I'm not a mechanic and I value dependability along with my tiring roasting fun.
Good luck on your journey!
B
Money and modding a boosted car never ends.
When I built my grand prix it was a never ending build.
First was the turbo, then the intercooler and bigger injectors.
Then the tranny went boom. So I bought a built tranny.
Then I wanted more power. So I got a stage 2 turbo cam from zzp and zzp stage 2 heads. Boost went up to 22 psi on a tune!! Then I needed much better tires. It just goes on and on. To much money in the end. But I had one hell of a fast grocery getter!!!!
at 5800 feet, big displacement NA cars limp around gasping for air while little turbo cars run circles around them.
the air is so thin at that altitude you could run (little exaggeration) 15:1 compression with 40 degrees of timing on 85 octane.
you almost have to go with forced induction at that altitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxrillixx
Hes saying that N/A cars are more venerable to the change in air density. So at a low altitude, if a N/A car and a FI car run the same times... with a change of altitude the FI car would lose less time then the N/A car, therefore the FI would be faster.
So if a N/A and a FI race at high elevation and are even, at low elevation the N/A would be faster.
at 5800 feet, big displacement NA cars limp around gasping for air while little turbo cars run circles around them.
the air is so thin at that altitude you could run (little exaggeration) 15:1 compression with 40 degrees of timing on 85 octane.
in all seriousness, when i was in colorado last month i ran into a guy with an evo who ran 30lbs of boost on e85 with stock internals(?) and turbo. you almost have to go with forced induction at that altitude.
Yup yup....
I am VERY proud of getting 11's here out of my street car.
NEVER had a DA under 7900.
Now to sniff 11.5x....
__________________ 1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS.6 #1747 531.1 RWHP 481.3 FT/Pounds 7.650 at 92.66 (Bandimere Speedway -- 5800 feet -- 7900 Density Altitude) 11.902 at 117.29 (5800 feet -- 7900 Density Altitude)
Location: A place where they rather build another mall instead of a much needed dragstrip
Posts: 494
Money still #1
Nobody for fear of N2O......
__________________ 02 Z/28
Lid, Ram Air, borla exhaust with electric cut out, UD Pulley,Yank SS3600, LCA's
--------------------------
Awating the big install: Moser Ford 9" 35 spline-3.25-Locker-LCA brackets (from E.P.P.) 3.5" aluminum D.S. (from E.P.P.) UMI Adj. T. arm w/ relocation Trans mount, & D.S. Loop.
money!
i planned out my forced induction route back when i was making about 1/3-1/4th of what i'm making now, but it seems like as soon as the money was available, my priorities became more clear than ever.
i'm still slowly heading in that direction and use nitrous in the meantime.
i've got 42lb injectors. next step is heads and a blower cam. thing is, i'm considering higher compression 5.3 heads and forgetting about the supercharger since i'm doubting i will ever be able to justify it given that i value streetability more these days.
if someone droppeed $50k in my lap, i'd probably have a dozen other uses for it before supercharging my camaro ever came to mind. a few years ago, i'd have it ordered before the money was in hand.
Ummm.... A S/C cam will be much milder and have better manners than a all out H/C setup that would make good power.....
I saw a stock procharged 6.0 GTO make nearly 500 rwhp with nothing but the PC. 9 psi is all.....Well yea he had a nice exhaust too.
__________________ Just an average LS1
Strano springs and sways, Koni 4/4's, UMI PHB .
417rwhp/383tq
12.02/113 on heavy 17/9.5 ZR1 OEM Concepts + MT/DR's
I would agree with most of what others have said. Between cost of *properly* setting up a nitrous or FI kit, and the additional risks I've chosen to stay NA
Hes saying that N/A cars are more venerable to the change in air density. So at a low altitude, if a N/A car and a FI car run the same times... with a change of altitude the FI car would lose less time then the N/A car, therefore the FI would be faster.
So if a N/A and a FI race at high elevation and are even, at low elevation the N/A would be faster.
So the density of the air doesn't affect the turbo car then at sea level then?
All you are going to get is a closer race....the FI car would just cram in denser air and make even MORE power. It's only because you CAN pressurize the air at high altitude that allows a serious advantage.
Once you take that away and all things are equal, if you are moving more air; you are making more power. PERIOD.
I like the simplicity of n/a, but in the end; its $. There is nothing more fun than a power adder car done well.
__________________ 94 Mustang GT 5spd - AFR 165s .499/.510 etc...boost
95 M6 Trans Am :SOLD:
I voted simplicity as it would be harder to work on the car with FI under the hood, also I feel my car is plenty fast enough for what I do with it. I would like to try some nitrous but afraid of what could go wrong. I would say money is a very big factor in going FI. Its not just the cost of the turbo or blower kit, everything in the drivetrain has to be upgraded & thats where it really starts to add up. A local guy had his GTP upgraded with a nice intercooled turbo kit. Having that done & the tranny beefed up cost was around 10K, more than the car is worth. FI is a blast but its not cheap.
I voted simplicity but I'll also add that the weight over the front end is a big disdavantage to me. If i can make my power goals without having to add 100lbs to the front end then its a no brainer to me. I'm more of a handling guy so I guess I care about it more than all of the drag racers on here but it's an important issue with most types of FI to me (N2O and rear mount turbos exempt, obviously).
__________________ 99 FRC- Full exhaust, Blackwing CAI, Ls6 intake
NOS is a no way for me. Turbo and supercharger are too much. Heads and cam is the way to go
__________________ CJ/31/blk male www.fquick.com/CJLS1Z28TA 2000 Chevrolet Corvette FRC M6(Pewter) 1999 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 M6(Hugger Orange) Under Construction...
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