Did Royal Purple destroy my engine? NOW WITH PICS!
03-31-2010, 10:03 AM
#1
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Did Royal Purple destroy my engine? NOW WITH PICS! Here is a question for all of you. At the time, I didnt know Royal Purple had gone down the drain, and now I am kicking myself for it.
I bought a 2000 Trans Am LS1/T56. When I bought it, it came with 6 quarts of 5w30 Royal Purple and a Purple filter in the back of it (Bought the car on a wednesday). Since the car was right at 3k on the existing oil, I decided to change it that Saturday. I put in the RP and the filter. Not even 1k later, the engine started ticking. 500 miles later, it was ticking LOUDER. I pulled the valve covers, checked the rockers, even changed the pushrods, the sound was still identical.
Last Friday I changed the oil again (still, less than 2500mi on the royal purple), to try and figure out if it was lifter related. I put in Castrol Syntec 20w50 and a AC Delco filter. After that, I drove to Tampa (180mi), stayed in Tampa until Sunday evening and drove home, the ticking never changed pitch.
Monday comes and it is pouring rain, so I took the wife to work in my truck, and picked her up in the Trans Am. On the way home, it sounded like it was knocking, but only slightly, as I could barely hear it over the ticking. Tried to verify that it was knocking, but couldnt so I went inside for the night. Tuesday came, and wife drove it to work and home. I asked when I got home how the car was, and she said it stalled out 3 times. I went over and started the car and it was like midgets with hammers were inside the engine, the ticking had changed to full blown knocking, now the engine is dead (still have 40# oil pressure warm at idle). It still runs, but I am not driving it anymore.
When I put in the RP, I had ~38 oil pressure warm at idle. When I changed it out, I was ~22psi oil pressure warm at idle. Put in Castrol, ~40-42 warm at idle, and 500 miles later, still have ~40 warm at idle. Did the Royal Purple break down??? I didnt see any metal in the oil when I changed it, it was still pretty clean. The engine itself seems squeeky clean (at least the heads and valve covers, rockers and pushrods), so I dont think it was a sludge issue.
Any ideas???
UPDATE:
Here is what happened:
Lifters:
Cam lobe #1 (1st lobe on the front of the cam)
Cam lobe #2 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 2nd dead one)
Cam lobe #3 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 3rd dead one)
Cam lobe #4 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 3rd dead one)
The pieces of metal that I found in the pan werent bearing after all, it was the sides of that first lifter, along with the needle bearings.
I bought a 2000 Trans Am LS1/T56. When I bought it, it came with 6 quarts of 5w30 Royal Purple and a Purple filter in the back of it (Bought the car on a wednesday). Since the car was right at 3k on the existing oil, I decided to change it that Saturday. I put in the RP and the filter. Not even 1k later, the engine started ticking. 500 miles later, it was ticking LOUDER. I pulled the valve covers, checked the rockers, even changed the pushrods, the sound was still identical.
Last Friday I changed the oil again (still, less than 2500mi on the royal purple), to try and figure out if it was lifter related. I put in Castrol Syntec 20w50 and a AC Delco filter. After that, I drove to Tampa (180mi), stayed in Tampa until Sunday evening and drove home, the ticking never changed pitch.
Monday comes and it is pouring rain, so I took the wife to work in my truck, and picked her up in the Trans Am. On the way home, it sounded like it was knocking, but only slightly, as I could barely hear it over the ticking. Tried to verify that it was knocking, but couldnt so I went inside for the night. Tuesday came, and wife drove it to work and home. I asked when I got home how the car was, and she said it stalled out 3 times. I went over and started the car and it was like midgets with hammers were inside the engine, the ticking had changed to full blown knocking, now the engine is dead (still have 40# oil pressure warm at idle). It still runs, but I am not driving it anymore.
When I put in the RP, I had ~38 oil pressure warm at idle. When I changed it out, I was ~22psi oil pressure warm at idle. Put in Castrol, ~40-42 warm at idle, and 500 miles later, still have ~40 warm at idle. Did the Royal Purple break down??? I didnt see any metal in the oil when I changed it, it was still pretty clean. The engine itself seems squeeky clean (at least the heads and valve covers, rockers and pushrods), so I dont think it was a sludge issue.
Any ideas???
UPDATE:
Here is what happened:
Lifters:
Cam lobe #1 (1st lobe on the front of the cam)
Cam lobe #2 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 2nd dead one)
Cam lobe #3 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 3rd dead one)
Cam lobe #4 (idk what lobe it actually is, but this is the 3rd dead one)
The pieces of metal that I found in the pan werent bearing after all, it was the sides of that first lifter, along with the needle bearings.
Last edited by SpecV44; 04-06-2010 at 08:07 AM.
03-31-2010, 11:01 AM
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I don't understand why people think that using a higher viscosity of oil is beneficial.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
03-31-2010, 11:36 AM
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Oh great, I just used royal purple for the first time last week then this thread shows up.
No but seriously, i really dont think its oil related. A few of my friends around here use it in there lsx motors, and so far no oil related problems. Its probably just a cowincedence.
No but seriously, i really dont think its oil related. A few of my friends around here use it in there lsx motors, and so far no oil related problems. Its probably just a cowincedence.
03-31-2010, 12:49 PM
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I don't understand why people think that using a higher viscosity of oil is beneficial.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
I agree about the 10psi per 1k rpm, and it still jumped up to 40psi off idle. I just find it wierd that this happened, and other people have said the same thing.
I only changed to the 20w50 to see if it quieted down the lifters (if it was lifter noise). Quite apparent now that it was not lifter noise.
Although the car is modded, it doesnt get driven hard, as it is the wife's DD and she is very afraid of it, so driving it hard is out of the picture.
I will tear it down, possibly this weekend. I am going to start tearing the car down tonight so I can drop the engine this week and get my 5.3 put in this weekend so she still has a car to drive.
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I feel bad for you and hope it's back on the road better than ever in no time
03-31-2010, 02:16 PM
#9
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yeah, 5.3 is going in this week, then will tear down the LS1. Working on finding a 6.0L block atm. it will be built better than before, so im good. i have been planning on yanking the motor in 3 weeks, but it didnt hold till then, oh well.
03-31-2010, 02:19 PM
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I'm thinking it's not the oils fault. Hopefully the person who sold it to you had the mods done by a reputable shop and you could start there. Gl man!
-SS
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03-31-2010, 02:36 PM
#11
You probally washed out that STP that had that car running quiet when you put the RP in there and now it started knocking. You might want to check your rearend for sawdust too!
03-31-2010, 03:07 PM
#12
Unfortunately I agree. Did you know the person you bought it from? Did he/she seem shady? I'd put my money on the fact that it had oil pressure problems and that's why they sold it. I know it is easy to overlook things on a car when you are looking at them but did you notice what the oil pressure was when you test drove it?
03-31-2010, 03:48 PM
#14
Not the oils fault...sounds like a spun bearing to me and maybe there was thick oil in it when you bought it to cover up the "tick" which was the bearing on the way out, and then more and more run time finally got it to spin the bearing to what you have now.
Do not drive it anymore for sure, sorry to hear about your luck.
Do not drive it anymore for sure, sorry to hear about your luck.
03-31-2010, 04:58 PM
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any time you think it's the oil save some and have it tested. most of the time the used oil analysis will point you in the direction of what happened in the engine. The report gives you wear metals that are in the oil. That will let you know what is failing inside.
03-31-2010, 11:21 PM
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the guy didnt seem to be shady or anything of that nature, he met me at his house, took me to a parking lot with bright lights to look at the car, even let my wife drive it back to his house even though she isnt the greatest at driving a stick. we signed the title in his dining room and chatted for a bit, seemed like a really nice guy. I dont think he would have done this on purpose, especially when he tried to tell me everything about the car that he knew.
I still have the oil filter, but the oil itself has been gone for a while (drained and then the drain pan got rained on later in the day).
I still have the oil filter, but the oil itself has been gone for a while (drained and then the drain pan got rained on later in the day).
04-01-2010, 05:41 AM
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I don't understand why people think that using a higher viscosity of oil is beneficial.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
Let me give you an example.
lets say you are running a 10-30 and you have 40psi then it goes to 20psi. This means the oil is experiencing less restriction. Possible that a bearing started to go bad and you now have more tolerance this equaling less resistance so you will see a reduction in psi. The reduction in psi could be caused by the pump also. It is possible that you are having an issue with the bypass.
So now that there is an issue you put a heavier oil in and you see an increase in pressure. Well this is because it takes more pressure to move the thicker oil. But you have to remember with the thicker oil you are also reducing the volume of flow.
What i am getting at is if there is a problem the heavier oil will just make it worse because you end up getting less volume of oil and therefore less lubrication.
Also remember a general rule off thumb is only 10 psi is needed per 1k rpm. But we are so use to 40psi it is harder to accept that rule.
Your initial problem sounded like valve train like previously stated. Now who knows.
Is the car stock?
i personally would start by pulling the heads and looking at the lifters and cam. that is the easiest thing.
What where you thinking?
Unless you rebuilt the engine with different bearing clearances the owners manual is the correct viscosityto use.
The guage in the car is just iinformational it is not the whole story. The part of the story missing in this case is the point of least resistance, oil viscosity and flow volume.
Keep your fingers crossed and maybe the problem won't be real costly.
04-01-2010, 06:53 AM
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the guy didnt seem to be shady or anything of that nature, he met me at his house, took me to a parking lot with bright lights to look at the car, even let my wife drive it back to his house even though she isnt the greatest at driving a stick. we signed the title in his dining room and chatted for a bit, seemed like a really nice guy. I dont think he would have done this on purpose, especially when he tried to tell me everything about the car that he knew.
I still have the oil filter, but the oil itself has been gone for a while (drained and then the drain pan got rained on later in the day).
I still have the oil filter, but the oil itself has been gone for a while (drained and then the drain pan got rained on later in the day).
04-01-2010, 07:46 AM
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I had a similar expirence. Started using the RP, let the wife drive the car and hydra-locked. punched 3holes in the block. It turned out to be a blown head gasket, but at the time I wanted to blame the RP.