New PCV experiment......

[TLewis4095]

Originally Posted by RCowan

Is this the mechanism of excessive oil consumption in the early LS1s with the ring-flutter issue at high rpms? (REF #01-06-01-023A)

My 99 has burned some oil from day 1 and it has increased every time I increased the stall. Oil gets black fast. Different heads/cams didn't really change it much, just higher stall. The entire intake manifold has an even film of oil inside and the intake ports of the heads are stained with it, same amount each one. Now with my 4200 stall I burn a qt of Mobil1 every ~300 mi. I tried the "orificed" PCV which did nothing. I had an AMW catch can on the dirty side years ago which caught a small fraction of the total. Did the LS6 valley conversion, no change. This has been the single most frustrating PITA with this car.

Yes, the early LS1's have a very high percentage of ring flutter due to the lower tension.....only fix for that is a re-ring. I have to agree that the vented valley cover orfice is a n issue especially after a motor has been apart. Debris can clog it up and then it is even more restricted. I like to pull from the rear of the drivers side valve cover, and have the fresh air enter the pass side frnt. This allows very little restriction and a very complete "flush path" through the crankcase.

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

One thing I was wondering here. On a car with a vaccume pump setup thats is ideal. Lets say it pulls enough vaccume that the relief valve does not get triggered. Where does the fresh air source come from that evacutes/replaces these harmfull gasses out of the crankcase?

If it does not pull enough vacuum to open the relief valve then it is either pulling it past seals or the blow-by is to excessive and you need to check rings/piston/bore. Try the routing I recomended and post the results......that may be your fix.

[LS6427]

Originally Posted by TLewis4095

Yes, that is spot on. I would suspect a restricted LS6 valley cover vent or a excess blowby issue. Cap the valley cover and pull the crankcase from the drivers side rear valve cover fitting.....

Do you think its better to pull vacuum from the drivers side valve cover...rather than pulling from the pass valve cover or valley cover port?

You think it'll pull less oil out using the drivers side valve cover?

EDIT:::: I read you post above.....I'm gonna try that this week. Use a clear hose to see if oil is getting sucked through it.

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[TLewis4095]

Good luck....make SURE you have a PCV valve in the drivers side valve cover to control the amount pulled....or if you have the RevX can that it is plumbed inline.

Originally Posted by LS6427

Do you think its better to pull vacuum from the drivers side valve cover...rather than pulling from the pass valve cover or valley cover port?

You think it'll pull less oil out using the drivers side valve cover?

EDIT:::: I read you post above.....I'm gonna try that this week. Use a clear hose to see if oil is getting sucked through it.

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[LS6427]

Originally Posted by TLewis4095

Good luck....make SURE you have a PCV valve in the drivers side valve cover to control the amount pulled....or if you have the RevX can that it is plumbed inline.

I'm getting the new fixed PCV valve for it. I've had the older style in there so far.

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[Yahelou]

any updates on this method? I have been thinking about gettin rid of the pcv system altogether and just using breathers.

[Jayh]

Well I just went 50/50. Im pulling dirty air from my front passenger side valve cover via manifold vacuum and using the throttle body fitting to push air into the driver side rear valve cover instead of the unmonitored method with the filter i previously had on.

[TLewis4095]

Originally Posted by Yahelou

any updates on this method? I have been thinking about gettin rid of the pcv system altogether and just using breathers.

This thread has most all you could want to know:
My catch can routing ok?

And here is a short explanation:

The oil mist/vapor that results in the oil coating the intake is only one of the many combustion byproducts and harmful compounds that are evacuated from the crankcase. The oil mist/vapor is a suspension caused by the internal parts flinging it so it needs a chance to slow-down & cool to condense the suspension to droplets that are then trapped in the can. But the harmfull stuf is the acids, water vapors, carbon particles, and unburn't fuel that if not flushed out will cause harm over time by coroding the internal parts and contaminating your oil causing it to protect less & less. What you have sounds like mainly water vapor & some unburnt fuel, etc. It to will condense to droplets and be caught by the can where the other gasses will be drawn through and burnt in the combustion chamber & then the cat.

The cars of today ALL have closed crankcase ventelation systems, and ALL will result in some oil in the intake. Some are worse than others (our LS based especially) so that is the reason we modify the systems to prevent this. To test and see if you need one, simply unbolt your TB from the intake & reach in with a white paper towel (into the intake snout). If it comes out clean, you have no issue. If it comes out oily, you do.

The problems we see the most are where people will delete the PCV system and just run breathers, or worse...open hoses hanging down from the valve covers where they will pull dirt & debris directly into your motor. The breathers relieve excess crankcase pressure & are filtered to keep dirt out, but do nothing to evac or flush the harmfull products out. So each time you run up to operating temp the harmfull crap "flashes" off to vaoprs and unless pulled out with vacuum. remain in the crankcase for the most part and when you shut down & the motor cools, they re-condense into droplets inside your motor and coat the internals & contaminate the oil. This is accumulative so over time damage results.

Any questions anyone has please post them and I will do my best to answer them for you. This is a very misunderstood issue and the only solution is knowledge. Far to much misinformation out there by assumptions and the thinking of 30 years ago.

[JFM-jr]

Here is a question I have wondered about. On a vaccume pump setup there is no source of fresh air. How do these motors avoid the shortcomings you describe?

[LS6427]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Here is a question I have wondered about. On a vaccume pump setup there is no source of fresh air. How do these motors avoid the shortcomings you describe?

The line from the top of the TB to the passenger side valve cover is really the only way for fresh air to enter the crankcase with a stock factory PCV system. If you use an external vacuum pump, just leave that TB line hooked up and you'll have no difference between the intake vaccum method or an external vaccum pump method.

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[XtremeDime]

So capping off the port thats rear facing on the pass valve cover, then running a regular PCV hose with valve from the forward facing port on the pass valve cover to the tb and a breather on the driver side cover? What do you think about the evacuation method into the exhaust? Would you run the driverside port to the exhaust on this setup? Thanks for the write up!

[JFM-jr]

Originally Posted by LS6427

If you use an external vacuum pump, just leave that TB line hooked up and you'll have no difference between the intake vaccum method or an external vaccum pump method.

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This is my point here with a vaccume pump there IS NO fresh air intake it dont exist . . . . . .

[LS6427]

Originally Posted by XtremeDime

So capping off the port thats rear facing on the pass valve cover, then running a regular PCV hose with valve from the forward facing port on the pass valve cover to the tb and a breather on the driver side cover? What do you think about the evacuation method into the exhaust? Would you run the driverside port to the exhaust on this setup? Thanks for the write up!

No.....if you're gonna use the exhaust vaccum setup I think the best way to do that is.....run the line to the exhaust, then pull crankcase air/gases from the drivers side valve cover....then a breather/filter on the passenger side valve cover port.

Thats it.....cap everything else off. One way for air in....one way for air out.

Put a one-way check valve in the line from the exhaust and the PCV valve in-line also. Or maybe don't even use a PCV valve. Try it both ways and see if WITHOUT the PCV valve you don't get a smoke trail behind you when you go WOT...if you do, put the PCV valve in, that will fix that problem.

This will allow fresh air to enter the pass side valve cover, then flow from there down into the crankcase and up to the other valve cover and out through the vaccum line.

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[LS6427]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

This is my point here with a vaccume pump there IS NO fresh air intake it dont exist . . . . . .

What I'm sayinmg is....add a fresh air intake breather/filter to the external vaccum set-up system.

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[XtremeDime]

Originally Posted by LS6427

No.....if you're gonna use the exhaust vaccum setup I think the best way to do that is.....run the line to the exhaust, then pull crankcase air/gases from the drivers side valve cover....then a breather/filter on the passenger side valve cover port.

Thats it.....cap everything else off. One way for air in....one way for air out.

Put a one-way check valve in the line from the exhaust and the PCV valve in-line also. Or maybe don't even use a PCV valve. Try it both ways and see if WITHOUT the PCV valve you don't get a smoke trail behind you when you go WOT...if you do, put the PCV valve in, that will fix that problem.

This will allow fresh air to enter the pass side valve cover, then flow from there down into the crankcase and up to the other valve cover and out through the vaccum line.

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Thanks for the help! Ill try that out when my car is running again.

[LS6427]

Originally Posted by XtremeDime

Thanks for the help! Ill try that out when my car is running again.

BTW...I used to be in Anchorage all the time for work. I friggin loved that place. Used to stay at the Hilton downtown. I was there every month for about 6-10 nights for a 2-year period. It was my base for 2 years going back and forth to Asia and the Middle East. I don't know how many times me and my friends would "walk" into the "F-Street" bar and stumble out. Good thing the Hilton was literally a 1 minute walk. Hows that place doing, still have that big cheese block on the bar?

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[XtremeDime]

Originally Posted by LS6427

BTW...I used to be in Anchorage all the time for work. I friggin loved that place. Used to stay at the Hilton downtown. I was there every month for about 6-10 nights for a 2-year period. It was my base for 2 years going back and forth to Asia and the Middle East. I don't know how many times me and my friends would "walk" into the "F-Street" bar and stumble out. Good thing the Hilton was literally a 1 minute walk. Hows that place doing, still have that big cheese block on the bar?

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Haha oh god F street? Their drinks will kick your ass all night, and ya, they still got the cheese block. Town itself is growing at a ridiculous rate and we just got our first snow fall a couple days ago. The car scene is still nothing mentionable.

[LS6427]

Originally Posted by XtremeDime

Haha oh god F street? Their drinks will kick your ass all night, and ya, they still got the cheese block. Town itself is growing at a ridiculous rate and we just got our first snow fall a couple days ago. The car scene is still nothing mentionable.

Yeah, I'm from Lauderdale/Miami where the clubs/bars are nuts....and I was impressed with the drinks at F-Street. I still go through there sometimes but its not my home base anymore. We usually will stop for a night and then continue on to Asia the next morning, but sometimes we have to just stop for gas and keep on flying. We can't drink on the nights we stay over to rest because we have to fly the next day.......but I NEVER pass up a chance for the Halibut dinner at F-Street.

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[XtremeDime]

Ive never ate he food there, I honestly dont even like F Street beyond its iced teas its always way too crowded and just not my scene.