Alternative: How to Seafoam your car.
11-04-2009, 01:45 PM
#1
12 Second Club
Thread Starter
Alternative: How to Seafoam your car. Alternative: How to Seafoam your car.
Since the https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-your-car.html thread is over 50 pages now, it seems that people don’t want to read the whole thread. I understand. This is disappointing, though since such great arguments have been made for the pros and cons of Seafoam. Since people seem to only read page one and get only the positive arguments for Seafoam use, this post is dedicated to the argument against Seafoam as a top engine cleaner and the alternative.
First, I would like to say that I don’t know of any reason why you should not put Seafoam into your gas tank. There are plenty of people who have stated time and again that it does a great job of cleaning the fuel system.
Second, To ChocoTaco369: Much props to you for writing the famous how to thread. This is not meant to be an attack, simply an opposing viewpoint.
Engine Flush:
Many people have been putting Seafoam into their crankcase as an engine flush, then driving around for days or weeks before changing the oil. Please stop. Seafoam is a 100% petroleum product, or lightweight mineral oil. Pouring it into your oil is like diluting your oil with gasoline or sewing machine oil. You do not know how it will interact with the additives already in your oil. Then driving with this in your oil puts stress on the lubrication system possibly causing damage. To learn about engine oil and additives please read here:
http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
To flush your oil, if you feel it is necessary, you can buy Gunk Engine Flush, or use Seafoam if you must, but here’s the important part, it’s all in the technique. Do this after your top engine cleaning, (that will be discussed later).
1. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
2. Add the engine flush to a full crankcase.
3. Start the engine and let it idle for 5 minutes then shut it down. You will likely be able to hear the oil draining back into the crankcase since it will be so thin.
4. Change your oil right away. Give the oil a little extra time to drain completely as you will likely get more oil out of the engine than normal.
Top engine cleaning:
My problems with Seafoam as a top engine cleaner mostly stem from the fact that it is an old solution to a problem that has, in many ways, evolved. When engines were carbureted you could pour Seafoam into a running carburetor and it would be distributed throughout the intake just like the gasoline was. Our dry intakes don’t do this as well. The write up on how to Seafoam your car tells you to pour the liquid into the brake booster line. I’ve drawn a diagram on a picture of an LS type manifold that illustrates why this does not work for our cars.
My other point of contention with Seafoam is that it is a light-weight mineral oil that does not compress. When you pour it into the brake booster line you are flooding out the rear two cylinders and could cause significant damage to your engine if you are not careful. When the engine is shut down the Seafoam sits in the rear of the intake and those rear cylinders, but does nothing for the rest of the motor.
Enter the alternative: Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner p/n 04318001.
Here’s a picture:
MCCC is in an aerosol can and is an expanding foam product. You can buy it at your local Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer for about the same cost as Seafoam. You spray it into your motor from the PCV port at the start of the intake stream. This allows the mixture to be evenly distributed to all cylinders. When the engine is shut off it expands to fill the combustion chambers, intake runners and plenum. It coats every surface to clean more thoroughly.
But, Dave, what about the cool Seafoam smoke show? MCCC when used properly does give similar results, but a much more effective clean.
Below is the Jeep TSB for proper application of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner. I have inserted notes in BOLD that pertain to our LS engines:
NO: 18-22-98
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: Jun. 12, 1998
{I removed symptoms/vehicle specific data}
Here is the repair procedure.
1. Operate the vehicle until the vehicle reaches operating temperature.
2. Remove the air tube from the throttle body. On an LS engine remove the PCV tube that attaches to the intake just after the throttle body. Add a short piece of emissions hose to the nipple to make things easier.
3. With the engine at an idle, spray the entire contents of Mopar Combustion Cleaner, p/n 04318001, directly into the PCV Port. Allow the vehicle to load up with the cleaner to the point of almost stalling out.
Here is a picture I pirated from LS6427 that shows how/where this is done.
4. Shut the engine OFF after the entire can is ingested. I like having a second person do this so that they can shut the engine off at the point where the can of MCCC starts to sputter, and I don’t have to run around hoping that I shut the engine off fast enough.
5. With the hood closed and the vehicle parked inside the garage, allow the vehicle to soak for two to three hours. This will ensure that the engine will maintain its temperature and will allow proper solvent penetration.
6. **Drive the vehicle to fully warm up the engine.
7. If the vehicle is equipped with an automatic transmission, place the gear selector into L, if the vehicle is equipped with a manual transmission, place the transmission into first gear.
8. On a suitable road that will allow the vehicle to be driven safely at the posted speed limit, accelerate the vehicle until the engine reaches 4500 rpm.
9. Hold the engine speed at this rpm for 15 seconds.
10. Slow down and pull to the side of the road, then allow the engine to idle for five seconds.
11. Repeat Steps 7 through 10 two more times.**
12. With the vehicle at operating temperature and within the freeze frame data recorded for the diagnostic test, verify that the misfire condition has been corrected.
Thank you for reading a long post,
David
Disclaimer: You have just read my opinions. They may not be the same as yours. Do your own research, and don’t believe the marketing BS, just because the salesman said it was so.
Since the https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-your-car.html thread is over 50 pages now, it seems that people don’t want to read the whole thread. I understand. This is disappointing, though since such great arguments have been made for the pros and cons of Seafoam. Since people seem to only read page one and get only the positive arguments for Seafoam use, this post is dedicated to the argument against Seafoam as a top engine cleaner and the alternative.
First, I would like to say that I don’t know of any reason why you should not put Seafoam into your gas tank. There are plenty of people who have stated time and again that it does a great job of cleaning the fuel system.
Second, To ChocoTaco369: Much props to you for writing the famous how to thread. This is not meant to be an attack, simply an opposing viewpoint.
Engine Flush:
Many people have been putting Seafoam into their crankcase as an engine flush, then driving around for days or weeks before changing the oil. Please stop. Seafoam is a 100% petroleum product, or lightweight mineral oil. Pouring it into your oil is like diluting your oil with gasoline or sewing machine oil. You do not know how it will interact with the additives already in your oil. Then driving with this in your oil puts stress on the lubrication system possibly causing damage. To learn about engine oil and additives please read here:
http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
To flush your oil, if you feel it is necessary, you can buy Gunk Engine Flush, or use Seafoam if you must, but here’s the important part, it’s all in the technique. Do this after your top engine cleaning, (that will be discussed later).
1. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
2. Add the engine flush to a full crankcase.
3. Start the engine and let it idle for 5 minutes then shut it down. You will likely be able to hear the oil draining back into the crankcase since it will be so thin.
4. Change your oil right away. Give the oil a little extra time to drain completely as you will likely get more oil out of the engine than normal.
Top engine cleaning:
My problems with Seafoam as a top engine cleaner mostly stem from the fact that it is an old solution to a problem that has, in many ways, evolved. When engines were carbureted you could pour Seafoam into a running carburetor and it would be distributed throughout the intake just like the gasoline was. Our dry intakes don’t do this as well. The write up on how to Seafoam your car tells you to pour the liquid into the brake booster line. I’ve drawn a diagram on a picture of an LS type manifold that illustrates why this does not work for our cars.
My other point of contention with Seafoam is that it is a light-weight mineral oil that does not compress. When you pour it into the brake booster line you are flooding out the rear two cylinders and could cause significant damage to your engine if you are not careful. When the engine is shut down the Seafoam sits in the rear of the intake and those rear cylinders, but does nothing for the rest of the motor.
Enter the alternative: Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner p/n 04318001.
Here’s a picture:
MCCC is in an aerosol can and is an expanding foam product. You can buy it at your local Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer for about the same cost as Seafoam. You spray it into your motor from the PCV port at the start of the intake stream. This allows the mixture to be evenly distributed to all cylinders. When the engine is shut off it expands to fill the combustion chambers, intake runners and plenum. It coats every surface to clean more thoroughly.
But, Dave, what about the cool Seafoam smoke show? MCCC when used properly does give similar results, but a much more effective clean.
Below is the Jeep TSB for proper application of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner. I have inserted notes in BOLD that pertain to our LS engines:
NO: 18-22-98
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: Jun. 12, 1998
{I removed symptoms/vehicle specific data}
Here is the repair procedure.
1. Operate the vehicle until the vehicle reaches operating temperature.
2. Remove the air tube from the throttle body. On an LS engine remove the PCV tube that attaches to the intake just after the throttle body. Add a short piece of emissions hose to the nipple to make things easier.
3. With the engine at an idle, spray the entire contents of Mopar Combustion Cleaner, p/n 04318001, directly into the PCV Port. Allow the vehicle to load up with the cleaner to the point of almost stalling out.
Here is a picture I pirated from LS6427 that shows how/where this is done.
4. Shut the engine OFF after the entire can is ingested. I like having a second person do this so that they can shut the engine off at the point where the can of MCCC starts to sputter, and I don’t have to run around hoping that I shut the engine off fast enough.
5. With the hood closed and the vehicle parked inside the garage, allow the vehicle to soak for two to three hours. This will ensure that the engine will maintain its temperature and will allow proper solvent penetration.
6. **Drive the vehicle to fully warm up the engine.
7. If the vehicle is equipped with an automatic transmission, place the gear selector into L, if the vehicle is equipped with a manual transmission, place the transmission into first gear.
8. On a suitable road that will allow the vehicle to be driven safely at the posted speed limit, accelerate the vehicle until the engine reaches 4500 rpm.
9. Hold the engine speed at this rpm for 15 seconds.
10. Slow down and pull to the side of the road, then allow the engine to idle for five seconds.
11. Repeat Steps 7 through 10 two more times.**
12. With the vehicle at operating temperature and within the freeze frame data recorded for the diagnostic test, verify that the misfire condition has been corrected.
Thank you for reading a long post,
David
Disclaimer: You have just read my opinions. They may not be the same as yours. Do your own research, and don’t believe the marketing BS, just because the salesman said it was so.
Last edited by 91RS383; 11-04-2009 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Left out the [B]BOLD[/B] bits.
11-04-2009, 02:11 PM
#2
Nice, good job man, that'll be $10.00 for the use on my picture. j/k
One thing to add. As Dave mentioned....have a friend shut the engine off just as you feel/hear the can to "start" running out. If you let it run out and then try to run over and shut the engine off, you just let the running engine suck all the FOAM through the engine and out the exhaust. This will assure the inside of your exhaust pipes are real clean.
If you do it this way, assuring that the foam is inside the intake...you might get foam expanding out through the TB blade. So, you may want to take the bellows/hose off the TB and place a towel up against it so it doesn't squeeze out and waste some of it. You want the foam to stay in there and expand under its own expanding pressure.
Also, the foam will want to also come out of the vacuum port you just sprayed it into, I capped it off the second the can ran out. Otherwise it'll fill your PCV line if you pop it right back on and it could push it back into the PCV lines, thus decreasing its expanding pressure cleaning effect inside the top end. So just cap it or duct tape it for the sitting/soaking period. Then pop the PCV line back on and fire it up when you're ready.
.
One thing to add. As Dave mentioned....have a friend shut the engine off just as you feel/hear the can to "start" running out. If you let it run out and then try to run over and shut the engine off, you just let the running engine suck all the FOAM through the engine and out the exhaust. This will assure the inside of your exhaust pipes are real clean.
If you do it this way, assuring that the foam is inside the intake...you might get foam expanding out through the TB blade. So, you may want to take the bellows/hose off the TB and place a towel up against it so it doesn't squeeze out and waste some of it. You want the foam to stay in there and expand under its own expanding pressure.
Also, the foam will want to also come out of the vacuum port you just sprayed it into, I capped it off the second the can ran out. Otherwise it'll fill your PCV line if you pop it right back on and it could push it back into the PCV lines, thus decreasing its expanding pressure cleaning effect inside the top end. So just cap it or duct tape it for the sitting/soaking period. Then pop the PCV line back on and fire it up when you're ready.
.
11-04-2009, 08:22 PM
#5
Only reason this sucks is because some cars do not have a way to the intake manifold right behind the throttle body. And from the looks of it you don't want to spray this foam in front of the TB and hope it seeps in because it will just expand in the intake ducting. Oh well good write up anyway. I'm gonna try this on my LT1 soon. The Dodge dealership has tons of this stuff which was surprising because I've heard this stuff is hard to find.
11-04-2009, 10:43 PM
#6
Only reason this sucks is because some cars do not have a way to the intake manifold right behind the throttle body. And from the looks of it you don't want to spray this foam in front of the TB and hope it seeps in because it will just expand in the intake ducting. Oh well good write up anyway. I'm gonna try this on my LT1 soon. The Dodge dealership has tons of this stuff which was surprising because I've heard this stuff is hard to find.
Take your air filter out.....
Run the hose all the way up to the TB blade, 1 inch from it......
The other end out through the front or whatever.......
Have someone hold the rpm's up to no more than 900-1,000...or just above idle so you know for sure the TB blade is partially open....
Spray it in.....
It will all get sucked right into the intake, the entire can......
Then have the person shut it off right when the can starts running out....
Then sit and wait as normal.
Done.
works on any engine...except an ITB intake engine.....lol
.
11-04-2009, 11:49 PM
#7
If you have no port in the front to spray it into you can SIMPLY buy a 2 foot piece of 3/8" heater hose (like you see in the picture above in post #1) or whatever length you need for your car.
Take your air filter out.....
Run the hose all the way up to the TB blade, 1 inch from it......
The other end out through the front or whatever.......
Have someone hold the rpm's up to no more than 900-1,000...or just above idle so you know for sure the TB blade is partially open....
Spray it in.....
It will all get sucked right into the intake, the entire can......
Then have the person shut it off right when the can starts running out....
Then sit and wait as normal.
Done.
works on any engine...except an ITB intake engine.....lol
.
Take your air filter out.....
Run the hose all the way up to the TB blade, 1 inch from it......
The other end out through the front or whatever.......
Have someone hold the rpm's up to no more than 900-1,000...or just above idle so you know for sure the TB blade is partially open....
Spray it in.....
It will all get sucked right into the intake, the entire can......
Then have the person shut it off right when the can starts running out....
Then sit and wait as normal.
Done.
works on any engine...except an ITB intake engine.....lol
.
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11-05-2009, 07:38 AM
#10
12 Second Club
Thread Starter
The instructions on the can (which differ from the TSB posted above) say to spray MCCC directly on the throttle body. If you do not have a vacuum port at or very near the TB you can spray it at the TB blades or idle bleed. It expands slowly so it will get sucked in.
11-05-2009, 12:15 PM
#11
There was a guy on here who sprayed it right though his MAF screen to the side of the little air sensor wires. It worked perfectly. Then he just quickly sprayed MAF cleaner on his entire MAF when he was done to make sure it was clean. ***He didn't realize at the time that there was a vacuum line on the intake to use.***
But if you're already at operating temp, you can just take the MAF off and put the hose right up near the TB blade and slightly crack the blade while you're spraying it in. The engine will idle fine without the MAF.
.
11-05-2009, 05:41 PM
#14
If it sucks onto your hand no problem.....thats a perfect place to spray it in.
But isn't that a line that pushes air into the valve cover?
Where is your PCV line?
******If that line doesn't have suction. Your best bet, which will work perfectly is what I explained above. Run the hose up to the TB blade through that black bellows after the MAF. Take your MAF off while you do this. Have a friend SLIGHTLY crack the TB blade so its a tad bit more open then normal. It'll work just as good.
.
Last edited by LS6427; 11-05-2009 at 05:52 PM.
11-05-2009, 05:46 PM
#15
Also, to all those people who can't find MCCC...........go buy some Sea Foam "SPRAY", not the liquid, and spray that entire can into the top end the same way. That will get pretty nicely distributed throughout the entire top end....you just won't have that real nice expanding foam to really grow and press up against everything......but its better than nothing.
***Note...it will take a long time to empty the whole can of Sea Foam spray into it. So plan on 2-3 minutes.
.
***Note...it will take a long time to empty the whole can of Sea Foam spray into it. So plan on 2-3 minutes.
.
11-06-2009, 01:36 AM
#16
The CCV hose he is showing does have vacuum. It is used to pull vrakcase vapors and buildup back into the TB. Also just for the sake of clearing it up that CCV line already does go behind the blades of the TB. When I said some cars don't have lines like that at the TB I was not talking about the LT1 specifically.
11-06-2009, 01:52 AM
#17
The CCV hose he is showing does have vacuum. It is used to pull vrakcase vapors and buildup back into the TB. Also just for the sake of clearing it up that CCV line already does go behind the blades of the TB. When I said some cars don't have lines like that at the TB I was not talking about the LT1 specifically.
So if the suction on that LT1 line is alot less than the LS1....it might even be better because it won't suck it through so fast.
.
11-07-2009, 07:50 AM
#18
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I cannot find it anywhere around me, one of the parts guys I talked to told me it had been on backorder for 7 months.
another one told me they were using the stuff from GM as an alternative to MCCC cause they cant get it and the results were mixed from the tech's about the GM CCC, best answer I got was the GM stuff was "OK" but not as effective.
I really want to give the MCCC a try since the Seafoam only slightly took away my noise problem but it came back.
I'm going to research more to see if I can get some shipped to me or ??.
we'll see.
Thanks for the thread OP.
another one told me they were using the stuff from GM as an alternative to MCCC cause they cant get it and the results were mixed from the tech's about the GM CCC, best answer I got was the GM stuff was "OK" but not as effective.
I really want to give the MCCC a try since the Seafoam only slightly took away my noise problem but it came back.
I'm going to research more to see if I can get some shipped to me or ??.
we'll see.
Thanks for the thread OP.
11-07-2009, 02:26 PM
#20
I cannot find it anywhere around me, one of the parts guys I talked to told me it had been on backorder for 7 months.
another one told me they were using the stuff from GM as an alternative to MCCC cause they cant get it and the results were mixed from the tech's about the GM CCC, best answer I got was the GM stuff was "OK" but not as effective.
I really want to give the MCCC a try since the Seafoam only slightly took away my noise problem but it came back.
I'm going to research more to see if I can get some shipped to me or ??.
we'll see.
Thanks for the thread OP.
another one told me they were using the stuff from GM as an alternative to MCCC cause they cant get it and the results were mixed from the tech's about the GM CCC, best answer I got was the GM stuff was "OK" but not as effective.
I really want to give the MCCC a try since the Seafoam only slightly took away my noise problem but it came back.
I'm going to research more to see if I can get some shipped to me or ??.
we'll see.
Thanks for the thread OP.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Combu...Q5fAccessories
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