The objective of high performance wires is about creating a stronger spark, not a hotter one. There is no direct relationship between spark temperature and spark voltage. If you create a hotter spark, you are only increasing the chances of pre-ignition, engine knock, and damage to the pistons or crank.
Sorry, I misspoke. I used "hotter" when I meant "stronger." I'm not talking about the heat range of the plug. I'm making the point that if you get good ignition with 20k, 40k isn't going to get you anything.
There is a common misconception that the plug "burns" the a/f mixture when it simply ignites it. This is used as a marketing gimmick for "hot coils" in the old-school V8 world based on the belief that more voltage will equal better combustion, and therefore, more power.
__________________ 00 Formula Bright Silver A4 Bolt-ons, SS3600 stall, 3.42s; 12.47/109.62/1.71 09 G8 GT Black/Onyx 19's, sport pkg - stock - wife's car 69 GTO Judge 400 4 spd.
69 GTO 428 TH400 01 T/A SOM M6 - Sold
untill dyno charts are shown and the wires are tested. their really is no point in going with better wires. reliability wise 9-10 times the stock wires will last way longer. and i have yet to see anyone proove what "real" gains you will get form going aftermarket.
wasted money in my mind
__________________ 2001 a4 TA CONVERTIBLE with Dents and Scratches
I don't see how sponsors are allowed to make frivilous (sp?) claims. Oh well I guess thats part of the business. There is always a little "smoke and mirrors".
__________________ 2006 Xterra S - Magnaflow muffler, NISMO intake "Sounds like a tree fiddy brah" 2000 NBM Camaro SS - 350rwhp/tq SOLD
they aren't making false claims when there are little asterisks at the bottom that says Performance varies by application. A nice little loophole to their claims that allow their products to even harm your performance.
just take all claims with a grain of salt.
__________________ Clint
330i
PLEASE POST YOUR SPAM LINKS SOMEWHERE ELSE. THANK YOU
Any discussion of spark plug wire resistance as a figure of merit demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the physics of iginition systems. Zero ohm wire is some kind of scientific breakthrough? A 6 in inch length of 100 year old lamp cord has effectively zero ohms. There's a reason resistance is artificially inserted into spark plug wire, or even the plugs themselves. I won't say what it is, because that would spoil all the fun. Oh wait a minute, I forgot Ohms law. Less resistance equals more current, right? Gee, what a dummy I am. I also forgot that the resistance of the air gap across the spark plug is TENS OF FRIGGIN MILLIONS OF OHMS. Could any of the PhD rocket scientists here please calculate the effect on current of 10, 50, or even 1000 ohms has in a circuit where the load is measured in megohms?
I'm waiting.
Oh, and for the really smart dummies out there, I haven't forgotten that once an arc commences, it's a plasma, and no longer a plain old boring air gap, but the resistance is still up in the stratosphere compared to every other component in the circuit.
__________________ World's First Twin Screw Pontiac GTO
Blown H/C 408 and other stuff. Billet tires. Stage 3 keyboard.
, but the resistance is still up in the stratosphere compared to every other component in the circuit.
Not initially. Initially the resistance decreases, reaches a minimal value & then recovers as the current in the spark gap decreases.
Source: Resistance of spark channels
Plasma Science
Volume 34, issue 5, October 2006, pages 1610-1619
If you have something positive to add to the thread, then please share. It's both rude & ignorant to enter a thread & then attack those whom are trying to learn by discussing ideas & sharing information.
__________________ LSX powered MUNSTER.....Mod's list? 5 lbs per HP with a sh!t load of low end torque...Friend to all car people...Thanks LS1Tech
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As I don't have access to that paper, please cite some specific evidence that the resistance of the plasma channel is not orders of magnitude higher than metallic, or even resistive carbon conductors for a meaningful portion of the spark event, as opposed to measurements like "high" and "low." With voltages measured in the tens of thousands resulting in peak spark currents of 1-2 amps with racing coils, but more typically in hundreds of milliamps, I see no contradiction to my assertion that the DC resistance of the wires has no significant influence on a spark event dominated by the gap parameters and leakage inductance of the coils.
I didn't direct any attack at any individual contributor to this thread, nor was I attempting to stifle the highly scientific and academically stimulating nature of this discussion. However, your characterization of me specifically as rude and ignorant speaks for itself. Moreover, why did you wait until now to grace this thread with your vast knowledge of plasma physics, if its integrity was so important to you?
__________________ World's First Twin Screw Pontiac GTO
Blown H/C 408 and other stuff. Billet tires. Stage 3 keyboard.
Everyone has access to the paper, including you. Further, my characterization of your involvement in the thread is accurate. You absolutely atacked the thread contriibutors as a whole & the nature of the discussion.
If you had taken the time to read the thread prior to boring us w/ your wisdom, you would have seen that "the PHD rocket scientists" had discussed the air gap resistance long before you chose to use it as a platform to launch your attack.
The end result that us "PHD rocket scientists" are trying to achieve is optimum cornel size & burn time. In this thread, the learning is related to part of the ignition sytem. There is no reason to attack others for trying to learn & understand events not understood while discussing the issue.
Go back to your followers before they stray off track while planning for the "Big ending."
__________________ LSX powered MUNSTER.....Mod's list? 5 lbs per HP with a sh!t load of low end torque...Friend to all car people...Thanks LS1Tech
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Fine. I'll Join IEEE, pay a subscription fee, and purchase a copy of the paper, when it would have been far simpler for you to simply provide a link to a freely downloadable copy of it, or better yet, simply address my question about actual real world resistance of plasma channels, or even intelligently contradict my assertion that gap resistance values are orders of magnitude higher than other circuit elements with real data. Instead, you want to play this pseudo intellectual jousting match by tossing out quotes from IEEE papers and walking away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1-450
If you had taken the time to read the thread prior to boring us w/ your wisdom, you would have seen that "the PHD rocket scientists" had discussed the air gap resistance long before you chose to use it as a platform to launch your attack.
I certainly did read the thread. Camaroholic made an intelligent reference to gap resistance, which was subsequently ignored. Further interpretations of Ohm's Law assumed a zero value for gap resistance and calculated current based on wire resistance alone. There were also intelligent posts by RevGTO, Joecar, Justin, and others which were met with nothing more than superstition, misinformation, and unsubsubstantiated marketing hype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1-450
The end result that us "PHD rocket scientists" are trying to achieve is optimum cornel size & burn time.
Bullshit. Where's the "US?" You were not even part of this thread before you posted your objections to my post. Moreover, there was ZERO discussion of burn time or "cornel" size prior to your post I'm quoting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1-450
Go back to your followers before they stray off track while planning for the "Big ending."
What are you smoking?
It is clear that your objection to my post was based solely on its admittedly sarcastic tone, as you have been unable or unwilling to provide any substanitive rebuttal to my technical points. Your citation of a paper where the only sections freely available on the internet are the ones you quoted, combined with your implication that you were a contributor to this thread prior to getting all butthurt about my post, and the inclusion of topics never discussed, leave me with the indelible impression that you are far more of a bullshit artist than the type of quality technical contributor to are pretending to defend.
__________________ World's First Twin Screw Pontiac GTO
Blown H/C 408 and other stuff. Billet tires. Stage 3 keyboard.
Last edited by mistermike; 01-02-2009 at 09:27 AM..
leave me with the indelible impression that you are far more of a bullshit artist than the type of quality technical contributor to are pretending to defend.
There are hundreds of LS1Tech members of whom would dissagree. It's apparent that you won't hop off of your & until you've had the last word. So, I'll leave this for those actually interested in obtaining information.
Don't fret; I don't pretend the infomation to be of my own. Some of us actually give credit to to those we learn from.
For the Archives:
Here's what works best in my car, mod's in signature. Stock coils, MSD wires,
WeaponX plugs gapped to 0.46", ground strap drilled (through) below the electrode.
This set-up allows 17-18:1 Air/fuel ratio during normal driving & 2* more in timing advance @ WOT. Further, Air/fuel during WOT can be increased from 12.5 to 12.9 w/ the 2* more advanced timing without producing engine pre-detonation. MPG under normal driving is an avg of 4 MPG greater. Idle is improved w/ increased part throttle power.
Total resistance before that "PESKY" air gap is as low as it can be. The electrode design is superior to most & the cornel size & burn rate is as good as I've found.
As many of you know, I have tried several set-ups & tunes as we have discussed & evaluated different products,...etc.. Prior to the above noted combination, it was the V-power NGK gapped w/ a drilled (through) ground strap below the electrode that had performed the best, but less than the gains noted above. Prior to the V-power NGK it was a standard copper plug w/ a dimpled electrode & a drilled ground strap below the electrode.
Have tried the combo's w/ MSD, Taylor, Accel & Magnecore wires. It's also, a great idea to ground both ends of both heads w/ braided ground wire. Have learned from LS1Tech, experienced drag racers, experienced road course racers, trial & error & theory. The combination of all sources has led me to the current set-up.
Was hesitant to bring up the WeaponX plugs because there is a sponsor doing some final testing prior to introducing them to the board. I have no affiliation w/ the sponsor or WeaponX.
__________________ LSX powered MUNSTER.....Mod's list? 5 lbs per HP with a sh!t load of low end torque...Friend to all car people...Thanks LS1Tech
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I'm just going to interrupt the epeening to say a big THANK YOU to those that have posted to say how bad the Taylor's are. I've gone through two sets of them and had just assumed that was as good as it gets when running headers.
I'll be going with a different set now.
Thanks!
Dan - looking forward to not having to change plugs and wires everytime
__________________ 00 C5 FRC - vararam, fast 90/ls2, kooks with z06 ti mufflers.
& 
until you've had the last word. So, I'll leave this for those actually interested in obtaining information.
