Short version: I think it's BS. Reason: thermodynamics.
Long version:
If this is what I think it is (hydrolysis, then burning the resulting H2 & O2 in your engine), then depending on how it's hooked up, it's one of two things:
If you charge the battery driving it at home, then lyse the hydrogen in the car, then burn it, it's an extremely inefficient way of making your car partially battery powered
if you run the thing off your altinator, it's bs, or else thermodynamics is wrong.
why: (this especially for the second one) Anytime you convert energy from one form to another, you are -never- 100% efficient with the process. So in the case that your alternator runs it, you burn gasoline->turn an alternator, make current*V->take some of the electric power, lyse water->burn resulting split water in the engine. Which is where you started with the gasoline. Every one of these steps is going to waste energy, so you would have been better off spending the energy used to split the water...driving the wheels. By the time you burn the hydrogen, probably <30% of the energy you pulled off the engine to turn the alternator is returned. In the case that you charged the battery, you could have much more efficiently have converted the battery's power to mechanical power by using an electric motor.
If any of the above is wrong, the only thing I can think of is it's some kind of super catalyst which makes the heat engine more efficient. But I have very strong doubts about that.
LOL @ this entire thread. Besides the thermodynamics issue which I and nitro junkie mentioned.....do you think that GM would not make a "$50 fix" to increase car MPG by a noticeable amount?
...end of thread.
__________________ 2002 Camaro Z28 Lid | Ported TB | ASP Pulley | Pro 5.0 | Hooker Catback| BMR SubFr |Tokico HP Shocks | Earl's SS Br Lines | Hawk HPS Pads | PS Cooler
LOL @ this entire thread. Besides the thermodynamics issue which I and nitro junkie mentioned.....do you think that GM would not make a "$50 fix" to increase car MPG by a noticeable amount?
...end of thread.
oops, sorry, didn't mean to pretty much duplicate your post; I missed it when I skimmed thru.
Short version: I think it's BS. Reason: thermodynamics.
Long version:
If this is what I think it is (hydrolysis, then burning the resulting H2 & O2 in your engine), then depending on how it's hooked up, it's one of two things:
If you charge the battery driving it at home, then lyse the hydrogen in the car, then burn it, it's an extremely inefficient way of making your car partially battery powered
if you run the thing off your altinator, it's bs, or else thermodynamics is wrong.
why: (this especially for the second one) Anytime you convert energy from one form to another, you are -never- 100% efficient with the process. So in the case that your alternator runs it, you burn gasoline->turn an alternator, make current*V->take some of the electric power, lyse water->burn resulting split water in the engine. Which is where you started with the gasoline. Every one of these steps is going to waste energy, so you would have been better off spending the energy used to split the water...driving the wheels. By the time you burn the hydrogen, probably <30% of the energy you pulled off the engine to turn the alternator is returned. In the case that you charged the battery, you could have much more efficiently have converted the battery's power to mechanical power by using an electric motor.
If any of the above is wrong, the only thing I can think of is it's some kind of super catalyst which makes the heat engine more efficient. But I have very strong doubts about that.
not that i totally agree with this hydrogen thing, but i don't think your statement is totally correct. what you're looking at the is net effect. if the net effect of adding this system to your car increases gas mileage then it works, and the energy used to create the reaction is less than the energy created from it. on the other hand, if you have a decrease in gas mileage then the amount of energy you put into the reaction is more than what you get out.
I see him today so hopefully I will have a weeks worth of data for you.
__________________ 02 WS-6 Patriot Stg 2 l 224/228 Comp Cam l FAST 92mm l 96mm TB l Circle-D 3700 l MWC 9" W/3.70's l 3800 lb raceweight 11.41@119.12 MPH 1.54 60' 400 RWHP
Here's the real story behind high gas prices...
[Sarcasm mode on]
It's all about democrats and their global warming nonsense. Since simply telling America that their big gas guzzling SUVs were ruining the environment didn't work, they are now jacking up the price of gas to 'sour the milk' per say. This will cause people to lean towards smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles which will save the Alaskan polar bears from becoming extinct. [Sarcasm mode off]
I do beleive that oil companies do buy up technology that is potentially threatening that is inexpensive. I could beleive that if someone created a fuel system that could boost gas mileage dramatically, it would be bought up, but that's called free market trade.
Ever watch the movie Tucker? That occurs in real life with the oil industry as well. Patents are always bought and shelved to prevent competition.
A gasoline engine is highly inefficient yet it is the preferred means of powering vehicles. There will always be some type of loss factor-that doesn't necessarily mean that something won't work.
I was told today he is getting 15% or 5 MPG increase on a single canister. He is wanting to increase to three soon but doesn't have them fabbed yet.
__________________ 02 WS-6 Patriot Stg 2 l 224/228 Comp Cam l FAST 92mm l 96mm TB l Circle-D 3700 l MWC 9" W/3.70's l 3800 lb raceweight 11.41@119.12 MPH 1.54 60' 400 RWHP
Actually republicans are the ones who are helping the oil companies, not to say they just voted against taking away a 17 billion $ tax break from oil companies. Yes democrats are saving polar bears, but if you have heard about the drilling process and the 20 years it would take to get the oil from the ground in alaska and to the market, the end relief would be at most $1.44 off a barrel of oil. Now which seems better? Taking away tax breaks and force oil compaines to seek alternative fuels? Or drill, kill polar bears, and wonder why gas prices are still sky rocketing? Like intercooled2 said the guy got 15% increase with a small kit the technology is there and at affordable prices there just not in wide use like oil. Not trying to argue just facts I have read gas man gas prices are killing me. Im up for anything that might help alittle.
__________________ http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/image....ine=11925067352001 Black TA A4 Black ZR1's deep dish 17x9 / 17x11
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04 GTO donor motor- Saved by the goat
I've seen several vids on youtube about these browns gas / H.H.O. kits. They seem to help a gasoline engine use less petrol per mile. Of course it seems too good to be true and there is a lot of skepticism going around (me included). There simply needs to be more testing!
This would be a great project for a high school physics class. What a great fund raiser for a school, right? The class could make it a year long project and do all the technical research and figure out the optimal ratios of H.H.O. to gasoline and so on. Then after the extensive project, engineer and produce kits to sell.
Maybe I am a conspiracy theorist and I have no evidence to support it, but I think the technology is out there to get more miles and performance out of gasoline and it is being witheld in order to feed the oil companies who in turn feed other enterprises to surpress technology. Everybody is happy and making a lot of money and they have all of us by the nutsack.
What really impresses me is the diesel engines running off of used cooking oil. Driving one of those veggie cars past a gas station would be extremely satisfying.
Basically all we want to know is does it work? I'm looking into one too what if something goes awry thought like lets say for instance to much h20 or something along those lines. I'm just concerned about something going wrong and blowing my motor up.
I spoke with him yesterday and he has three canisters going now. Will let you know if he improves on his 5 MPG increase over the single. I should have taken a picture
__________________ 02 WS-6 Patriot Stg 2 l 224/228 Comp Cam l FAST 92mm l 96mm TB l Circle-D 3700 l MWC 9" W/3.70's l 3800 lb raceweight 11.41@119.12 MPH 1.54 60' 400 RWHP
Location: Ridgecrest, CA (back from iraq... stuck in Alaska)
Posts: 190
i know every one is very skeptical about this whole thing but that guy isnt the only one doing this my father owns and runs his own trucking company and has seen many kits already being made for 18 wheelers that will cause you to use roughly 30 percent less fuel. hell that sounds good to me. even if it was only 10 i would do it considering the prices of gas. the technology isnt rocket science geez just look up electrolysis on youtube the shits easy as hell and takes very little Amperage to run... there for not drawing more power and energy off the motor... i think i have buddies whos car sterios draw rougly 10 times the amps it would take to run the system.
__________________
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MTI Air lid, LS6 Intake, Ported TB,SLP Cam, Ti Retainers, Comp Springs, Manly Pushrods, Double roller Chain, SLP Pump, ASP underdrive pulley, BMR Strut tower brace, BMR Sub-frame connectors, BMR Rear control arms, Hooker Longtube headers, 3exhaust, QTP Cutout. Koni 4/4's Strano Springs, Vredestein 18/9.5 in front and 18/10.5 in back
Actually republicans are the ones who are helping the oil companies, not to say they just voted against taking away a 17 billion $ tax break from oil companies. Yes democrats are saving polar bears, but if you have heard about the drilling process and the 20 years it would take to get the oil from the ground in alaska and to the market, the end relief would be at most $1.44 off a barrel of oil. Now which seems better? Taking away tax breaks and force oil compaines to seek alternative fuels? Or drill, kill polar bears, and wonder why gas prices are still sky rocketing? Like intercooled2 said the guy got 15% increase with a small kit the technology is there and at affordable prices there just not in wide use like oil. Not trying to argue just facts I have read gas man gas prices are killing me. Im up for anything that might help alittle.
You're misinformed.
First off, tax breaks to oil companies are GOOD. BUSINESSES DON'T PAY TAXES! Whatever the taxes are, they pass the cost to the consumer through the goods they sell. If you raise taxes on oil companies, the oil companies will NOT pay. They will just tack that price onto the cost of gasoline and you and I will pay it. A company is NOT going to LOSE MONEY by producing goods. They are either going to make you pay their taxes or they won't produce the goods. With the Democrats' plan, you get expensive gas or no gas. With the Republican's plan, you get ample, cheaper gas tomorrow.
It DOES NOT take 20 years to get oil to the market. That is a BS statistic. It would take about 5 years to get the oil to the market. However, it won't take 5 years for prices to come down. You obviously have no idea how the market works. Oil is traded on a futures market. Speculators gamble on oil's future price based on current events. This is how oil is sold - contracts are bought months in advance for today's price so businesses will have supply ready months in the future. If speculators see we are SERIOUS this time and we are moving towards energy independence (drilling for our own oil, building more refineries and cutting down government red tape), you will see an immediate drop in oil prices based on speculation in the futures markets. THAT is how the market works. This is why the Democrats can get away with doing what they're doing. Ignorant people like you have no idea how the market works, yet you still vote.
"$1.44 off a barrel of oil?" Are you serious? This is the single dumbest thing you could have possibly said because it shows how seriously ignorant you are. Over half the cost of a barrel of oil is because of supply concerns and a weak US Dollar. Producing our own oil today with the promise of getting off foreign oil tomorrow would be good for a short-term $40 dollar a barrel drop in oil prices, easily.
You know what sounds better? Drilling NOW, then offering tax incentives to companies to produce means of future clean energy is the smart way to go about it. Getting off oil and coal, no matter what we dump into the system, is an easy 50-100 years away, no matter what we do. How about we not DESTROY the ENTIRE AMERICAN ECONOMY in the process?
Seriously, do you have ANY idea what you're talking about? If you wanted to protect the environment, you'd want AMERICA to drill for the oil. If we don't take it, China, India, Russia, Cuba and the rest of the world will. We have the HIGHEST clean drilling standards in the WORLD. If other nations drill for oil and they spill it, they don't clean it up. We do. We have environmental regulations on our manufacturing plants. The other guys don't. That means the same oil that would cause minimal environmental damage tapped by the USA would cause maximum damage tapped by China or India. Your post is simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say.
It's important to note that the Democrats are doing this because the average uninformed idiot will just blame the president, and the Dems want POTUS BAD. This is all a charge at the presidency in classic "blame Bush for anything and everything" fashion when Bush and the Congressional Republicans are the only ones trying to fix the problem.
headed-ws6, you're everything wrong with the American public. Guys like you are what got us into this mess. Education is key. Educate yourself and try again. This energy non-crisis is almost entirely government created. We're the ONLY oil-producing nation in the WORLD that isn't drilling offshore that has a coastline.
Well I jumping in this post a little late but o well. I was cruising down the road and a red SS truck pulled up next to me I wasn't going to waste my time, but I said the hell with it. After his ass beating we pulled over the gas station and started talking about his truck. At first I didn't belive him he had Hydrogen. Well come to find out it was all home made stuff that he uses. 34MPG in a 6.0 truck. The guts of his system was six mason jars up in the front grill. The jars contained water with stainless steel rings inside, the rings were attached to a positive and a negitive source that was switched in the cab. When the switch was flipped the current ran though the jars causing gas to build up in the jars. The gas then went from jars to a spliter that ran to the vaccaum booster for low idle and crusing. When the truck was under a real load there was another line that was positioned in front of the thorttle body. HE also said he was getting 21 mpg while pulling a 24 foot trailer from the keys to Pensacola. I thought the idea was bad ass. He fills the jars up maybe every two weeks if they are low due to the heat here.
