What all else does he have done for supporting mods? Thats impressive!
Not 100% sure on all his mods, I know he runs high-mid elevens (11.7 or 11.8??) on motor and high tens on a 125 shot. I know he has a 12 bolt with 3.73s, LTs, hooker catback, and MT ET street radials with slicks and skinnies and he is a Big guy. From a dig he would get me strickly bc Im on Nittos and I have insane amounts of trouble hooking on stock suspension and full weight. Our race was him on his stock Z28 wheels.
What if we look at strictly the quarter mile.. Take a stock 02 camaro with headers with a 3600 converter and a 224 cam vs the same car with a 4400 converter and a 240 cam.. What car will be faster in the quarter mile givin they are mated to the correct converter and gear choices.. 224 shifting at 6400 and 240 shifting at 6800? Tough to say
T1 = Tony1 (Nine Ball)
T2 = Tony2 (Nine Ball)
B1 = Brooke1 (99RedHawk)
C1 = Campbell1 (Raughammer)
C2 = Campbell2 (Raughammer)
X1 = just a name
R1 = just a name
S1 = Sanders1 (Colonel)
( I thought the X was because of all the other "X" grinds out at the time. I thought the R was a "race" grind). The First X1 that I know of went into Poolfanatics' car...
J-Rod you are doing some time traveling sir...geeze where does the time go...alot of us back in the day went big, then bigger, then really big and now have gone to custom grinds that a lot of people call mild now days and still make large power/torque numbers with stock like drivability...it is still and always will be all about the COMBINATION...too many guys have no plan when they start to mod their car..just throwing money and parts at it does not produce the best results ...
__________________ Y2K NBM 6 MT Z28 CP
DYNO TUNED BY RON & MIKE @ GMMG
THEY ARE NOW VENGEANCE RACING & DEVELOPMENT
HP/TQ ? IT'S STOCK THEY ALL SOUND LIKE THAT
POWER TOUR 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, & 09 ... YEAH I'M GOING IN 2010 TOO
What I don't understand is why anyone would get so bent out of shape over another person's cam choice?? What does it matter? It doesn't affect you does it??
I chose a 230/230 cam because I wanted the 'best' cam for what I was trying to accomplish. I could care less what anyone thinks of my cam choice nor do I care what anyone else purchases.
Most all of the cams have their place.
thank you....thats what im saying the reasonmost ppl pick a big cam is, put a tr 228 with 4.10s headers and a good clutch on the track with the same setup car but sporting a big cam and tell me how its going to go???....duh, they both can be extremely effective when set up correctly and sorry but im one that driveabilty does not bother me and i dont need to pull a trailor so screw the "power under the curve" last i checked the power under the curve does not win the race, red line over the quater does....unless you road race
__________________ A polluted 2000 trans am
431rwhp 391 rwtq mustang dyno
ported 241s, polluter cam, full boltons
thru headers and loudmouth
and a hsw dual nozzle 125 shot turbo coming soon...
thank you....thats what im saying the reasonmost ppl pick a big cam is, put a tr 228 with 4.10s headers and a good clutch on the track with the same setup car but sporting a big cam and tell me how its going to go???....duh, they both can be extremely effective when set up correctly and sorry but im one that driveabilty does not bother me and i dont need to pull a trailor so screw the "power under the curve" last i checked the power under the curve does not win the race, red line over the quater does....unless you road race
People still miss the who combo thing. Let me cite the a prime example. The other Black Z06 I drive has one purpose. Drag racing. Thats all its built to do. Tommy toook it over to Pat to do re-do the drivability side of the tune since tuning has just been getting better as the tools get better.
Anyway, Pat did a great job of getting the car all tuned up, new plugs, sensors, new injectors, and a fresh tune. The car made 504 RWHP and 430 RWTq. This jives with the last set of numbers we had on the car.
For a 346/347 with flat tops that is a stout number. But the car has 4.10's and you do one thing with the car. You drop the hammer at 7000+ and shift it at 7300 and you row gears for dear life. At the same time you try to keep it from chunking the rear out the back of the car. Thats all you do with the car. So, thats what our combo is set up for, and that is why the cam is spec'd like it is. A 244/248 112+0 on LSK lobes is not what I would normally direct someone to put into their daily driver.
Ok, we have road raced the car, but I'm really not a fan of running LSK lobes on a road course....
Again, the car was built with a purpose. People just seem to loose sight of that and try to emulate combos for the street that aren't really suitable for the street. Then they get their clocks cleaned by a car that drives better that has 20º less lobe and wonder whats going on.
John Lingenfelter was the first person who I know of who talked about that in his "packges" for the C4 Corvette. A buddy of mine had one, and for what it was it just flew. John sat down and figured out where someone would spend 90% of their time driving a vehicle. The he would optimize his packages (at that time ) to maximize those areas. This is that whole "power under the curve" thing folks keep trying to advocate.
If people would start doing things like looking at "average power" and looking at what it takes to boost that up, they'd probably step away from some of the gigantoid cams. But, I think as always there is a learning curve, and some folks come around and go from the "biggest that will fit" over to "the best for my combination".
I think my 232/232 isnt too big of a cam and it made 426whp and 371 tq, not too bad I dont think. I definetly didnt want to get into anything over the 236/236 mark I think thats getting a little big. Hell, I got a buddy with a custom grind 228/228 going 11.2-11.3 at 123mph. Not bad for a smaller cam compared to todays standards of small cams.
__________________ 2002 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 M6: Wilson 95mm TB, FAST 92mm intake manifold, SLP lid, Jethot coated Pacesetter longtubes, Magnaflow catback, QTP e-cutout, Powerbond 25% U/D pulley, SPEC stage 2 clutch, Spohn adjustable panhard bar, Spohn adjustable lower control arms, Elite Engineering billet catch can, PSI 232/232 cam, and a very unique paintjob.
I defenitely dont think you need a big cam in a street car but I dont disagree with people putting them in their drivers. If they could put up with it then its fine for them. I would like to do a mid 230 cam with a 3600 stall and a 4:10 gear in my street car.
Big cams have their place because lots of guys are trying to build budget racers and the cheapest way is to build a good cam only light weight car. If you look at the cam only list its dominated by pretty big cams.
__________________ 01 Z28- Magnaflow catback, A4, 4:10's, SLP Lid, more power coming soon......
94 Integra - daily driver
New Project: 275 Fox.......Details still in the works
If you buy a small cam, it means you have a small pen0r lol j/k
Actually it's often just the opposite. If you have a large unit, you don't need the big cam to make you feel good about your engine or yourself. Very few companies go broke stroking male egos by selling big cams to the unwary or underendowed.
There is a similar "theory" about the size of a wrist watch a guy wears vs. the size of his unit.
"Big watch...little dick!" was how fighter pilots often put it, especially when discussing navigators.
I knew a girl once who looked for guys who wore no watch at all...hmmmmm.
Use the correct cam for the job, and lie about how big it is...just like you do about you-know-what.
Jon
__________________ "Being able to "think outside the box" presupposes you were able to think in it." --Bob Lutz "You can't rape Mother Nature."--Tom Ankeny "Doin' what they say can't be done."--Bo Darville "Who gives a cluck?"--Stroker Ace
I gotta buddy right now that ran a MS4 and switched to a 226 and runs just as quick as he did with the MS4. Granted it comes to how your setup is rigged.
although i do love my current car MUCH more than my last one.. it is NO where near as fast..
226 cam setup.. BEST time of 7.40@91mph with 1.52-1.54 short times.. most runs are mid 7.4s.. these were done in about 80 degree weather.. these are all letting the car cool about 30 minutes to an hour between runs..
ms4 setup.. no matter the day/night/heat/hot lapped/etc etc etc it ran 7.2@95.5mph (mostly in 90 degree humid weather).. it lifted the wheels about a foot off the ground and then unloaded (stock suspension in a lite car is a bitch) and spun through the sixty foot.. did not have a tune for the heads and hit the 1-2 2-3 rev limiter..
the MS4 setup would have ran 6.7s-6.8s@97mph or so hooking on a good pass with a tune..
thats the nitty gritty..
now.. this car is full weight DD... the MS4 car WAS NOT! this car is properly setup (suspension) and the MS4 car WAS NOT! therefor the 226 cam would have pulled the MS4 car out of the hole by about 1-1 1/2 lengths and then the MS4 car would have came around it half track and kept pulling pretty steadily through the 1/8 (faster/longer the race the wider the gap would get between the two with ms4 out front)..
**IF** you set up a "big cam" car correctly, it will outrun a "small cam" car.. just the thing is, is you dont see too many properly setup Ms4 cars on the STREET.. people try to get an ms4 and DD with DD manners and shit in mind.. you cant do that.. you can not put a 3500 converter 373s ls6 intake stock heads and a crappy tune on it and expect amazing results as where a smaller cam you can do that with and it will show better results..
i had..
ms4
PRC stg1 ls6 (i know, they suck for that cam but $$$$)
4k stall (more like a 4500)
410s
LTs dumped before axle
Ported FAST 9090
etc etc
it was a FAST street car.. not many things running around would touch it (true DD cars that is) but most people would not have DD a car like that..
all in all, its the ENTIRE setup, not that cam.. if your setup is not performing to your expectations it probably is not the cam but something more along the lines of converter choice, head, intake choice, etc etc etc..
this has already been said in the thread..
thats my .02..
__________________ 00 Pewter T/A A4 - Full Weight DD - 7.40@91.7mph NA 2400DA Enough to bitch slap Ls1killer!
00 Onyx Black T/A A4 (girlfriends car) - Full Weight DD - RIP - 8.4@85.5mph NA 2400DA 98 Artic White T/A A4 - DD - SOLD - 7.20@95.7mph NA 2000DA spinning/no tune/stock suspension
Past Rides- 02 954RR, 02 F4i, 98 Z28 M6, 99 3.8 V6 Firebird, 95 3.4 V6 Camaro
although i do love my current car MUCH more than my last one.. it is NO where near as fast..
226 cam setup.. BEST time of 7.40@91mph with 1.52-1.54 short times.. most runs are mid 7.4s.. these were done in about 80 degree weather.. these are all letting the car cool about 30 minutes to an hour between runs..
ms4 setup.. no matter the day/night/heat/hot lapped/etc etc etc it ran 7.2@95.5mph (mostly in 90 degree humid weather).. it lifted the wheels about a foot off the ground and then unloaded (stock suspension in a lite car is a bitch) and spun through the sixty foot.. did not have a tune for the heads and hit the 1-2 2-3 rev limiter..
the MS4 setup would have ran 6.7s-6.8s@97mph or so hooking on a good pass with a tune..
thats the nitty gritty..
now.. this car is full weight DD... the MS4 car WAS NOT! this car is properly setup (suspension) and the MS4 car WAS NOT! therefor the 226 cam would have pulled the MS4 car out of the hole by about 1-1 1/2 lengths and then the MS4 car would have came around it half track and kept pulling pretty steadily through the 1/8 (faster/longer the race the wider the gap would get between the two with ms4 out front)..
**IF** you set up a "big cam" car correctly, it will outrun a "small cam" car.. just the thing is, is you dont see too many properly setup Ms4 cars on the STREET.. people try to get an ms4 and DD with DD manners and shit in mind.. you cant do that.. you can not put a 3500 converter 373s ls6 intake stock heads and a crappy tune on it and expect amazing results as where a smaller cam you can do that with and it will show better results..
i had..
ms4
PRC stg1 ls6 (i know, they suck for that cam but $$$$)
4k stall (more like a 4500)
410s
LTs dumped before axle
Ported FAST 9090
etc etc
it was a FAST street car.. not many things running around would touch it (true DD cars that is) but most people would not have DD a car like that..
all in all, its the ENTIRE setup, not that cam.. if your setup is not performing to your expectations it probably is not the cam but something more along the lines of converter choice, head, intake choice, etc etc etc..
this has already been said in the thread..
thats my .02..
I bet that combo, like somebody on here once said, "hit like a drunk irishman".
__________________ Trolling is a art Gamertag: General SetoX
thank you....thats what im saying the reasonmost ppl pick a big cam is, put a tr 228 with 4.10s headers and a good clutch on the track with the same setup car but sporting a big cam and tell me how its going to go???....duh, they both can be extremely effective when set up correctly and sorry but im one that driveabilty does not bother me and i dont need to pull a trailor so screw the "power under the curve" last i checked the power under the curve does not win the race, red line over the quater does....unless you road race
Ok man, I have followed your thread on your Polluter install. You are going to be running stock heads, LS6 intake, I didn't see anything about headers, no aftermarket fuel injectors. Only thing that will help you are those 4.10's. I'll tell you right now, that setup is exactly what people on this thread are pointing out. I am not trying to be a dick or put you on blast, but its the truth. That kind of cam will be put on a leash with those heads. Hell, if you don't have aftermarket injectors, it won't even make power. Again, I'm excited to see what your car puts down, I really am, but its not going to put down anywhere near what it should man. IMO that setup was not thought through properly or you were just very eager to get a big cam and didn't have the cash to support it. Also, how can you say screw under the curve power??? That just does not make a lick of sense! Read through this thread
Ok man, I have followed your thread on your Polluter install. You are going to be running stock heads, LS6 intake, I didn't see anything about headers, no aftermarket fuel injectors. Only thing that will help you are those 4.10's. I'll tell you right now, that setup is exactly what people on this thread are pointing out. I am not trying to be a dick or put you on blast, but its the truth. That kind of cam will be put on a leash with those heads. Hell, if you don't have aftermarket injectors, it won't even make power. Again, I'm excited to see what your car puts down, I really am, but its not going to put down anywhere near what it should man. IMO that setup was not thought through properly or you were just very eager to get a big cam and didn't have the cash to support it. Also, how can you say screw under the curve power??? That just does not make a lick of sense! Read through this thread
Caleb i spot on with this post.. the only thing i see that could be picked apart is the injectors.. i had some room to go with my stock injectors, although i had the larger 98s... still dont think it would have made a difference..
but big cam and MANIFOLDS!?!?!
i dont see the reasoning behind that AT ALL!!
ls6 intake, BLAH! good for smaller cams that stop breathing at 6k.. but for a cam such as the polluter that needs to breath at 6k+ the ls6 isnt going to cut it..
__________________ 00 Pewter T/A A4 - Full Weight DD - 7.40@91.7mph NA 2400DA Enough to bitch slap Ls1killer!
00 Onyx Black T/A A4 (girlfriends car) - Full Weight DD - RIP - 8.4@85.5mph NA 2400DA 98 Artic White T/A A4 - DD - SOLD - 7.20@95.7mph NA 2000DA spinning/no tune/stock suspension
Past Rides- 02 954RR, 02 F4i, 98 Z28 M6, 99 3.8 V6 Firebird, 95 3.4 V6 Camaro
01 SS Rally Red A4 #4987 
