Exactly. Probably could still handle a huge shot of n20, since it will be forged. But "ideally" it is not as safe as spraying a 408 with the shorter stroke.
__________________ 2001 Z28 M6: FTRA w/ 85mm lid, Patriot LS6 Stage II Heads 59cc, Mamo Ported FAST 92/92, Scorpion 1.8 RR, 60# Injectors, 2-255 LPH Fuel Pump System, 160* Thermostat, Double Roller Timing Chain, LT Headers, OR Y-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, HP Tuners, Dynojet tune.
Moser 12 Bolt w/ 4.10's, LCA's, Monster Clutch, Koni 4/4, Strano Springs, Adjustable PHB, etc... 418 Stroker w/ PatG cam- Results to come
speaking of spray, that's not one of his goals. so let's keep it @ all motor, no spray, no FI. cheapest way to get to 500rwhp & 470+rwtq. whether it be a 408 w/ TF/AFR heads & ported FAST, or something different in which the heads doesn't cost as much to come by the power. he'll probably buy a shortblock & then seek out different top end parts from different places to finish it, whether they be new or used parts.
__________________ 98 White TA... project.
HPE Heads/Cam, Fast 90/NW 90, Moser 12 bolt, Built 4l60e, TCI 3400, B&M cooler, YT roller rockers, QA1 12 way adj,
BMR & Hotchkis suspension, Racetronix fuel pump, 6 pt, Dry NOS, Drilled/Slotted rotors, Kooks 1 7/8", Borla, Raptor hood, etc.
You don't need expensive heads, just a set that will flow good. I have budget heads, hopefully they will not hold me back too much for my build. If he is buying a shortblock, you'll have plenty of options. Obviously depends on the shortblock budget, or the entire budget. If budget is tight, look for an LQ9. Seems to be the best bang for the buck. It comes with a 4.000" bore already. You can take it .030 over also for more cubes. Then decide if you want a 4.000" stroke (408cid) or a 4.100" stroke (418cid). I would invest in a FAST 92/92 combo, or something similar and a decent set of heads. Then choose a cam that fits the needs of the owner, whether it's going to be daily driven for awhile or just a weekend car, or drag car. The camshaft will determine how the "beast" will act.
__________________ 2001 Z28 M6: FTRA w/ 85mm lid, Patriot LS6 Stage II Heads 59cc, Mamo Ported FAST 92/92, Scorpion 1.8 RR, 60# Injectors, 2-255 LPH Fuel Pump System, 160* Thermostat, Double Roller Timing Chain, LT Headers, OR Y-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, HP Tuners, Dynojet tune.
Moser 12 Bolt w/ 4.10's, LCA's, Monster Clutch, Koni 4/4, Strano Springs, Adjustable PHB, etc... 418 Stroker w/ PatG cam- Results to come
but once you buy a LQ9 and have it stroked, wouldn't you spend as much money for parts & machine/assembly cost as what a new shortblock ready to go will cost? I'll definitely sell him on a ported 90 or 92. I just don't think we'll find as much HP out of ported LS6's compared to those that come from trickflow & afr. they seem to put out big numbers on nearly every setup I see
__________________ 98 White TA... project.
HPE Heads/Cam, Fast 90/NW 90, Moser 12 bolt, Built 4l60e, TCI 3400, B&M cooler, YT roller rockers, QA1 12 way adj,
BMR & Hotchkis suspension, Racetronix fuel pump, 6 pt, Dry NOS, Drilled/Slotted rotors, Kooks 1 7/8", Borla, Raptor hood, etc.
but once you buy a LQ9 and have it stroked, wouldn't you spend as much money for parts & machine/assembly cost as what a new shortblock ready to go will cost? I'll definitely sell him on a ported 90 or 92. I just don't think we'll find as much HP out of ported LS6's compared to those that come from trickflow & afr. they seem to put out big numbers on nearly every setup I see
I think I would go with the assembled short block. It is very close in price to have one built as it is to buy it built. Plus if you buy it built from a sponsor, you know you're getting a goot motor. As for heads, I'd pick the L92 heads, or keep watch in the classifieds on here and try to pick up som AFRs or something comparable. They usually pop up frequently and don't cost much.
but once you buy a LQ9 and have it stroked, wouldn't you spend as much money for parts & machine/assembly cost as what a new shortblock ready to go will cost?
Used LQ9 is around $400, give or take. Forged rotating assemblies can be found for around $2500, give or take. A couple hundred for machining and balancing and we're around $3200 or so.
How much do 408+ shortblocks go for? I'm not sure exactly...
Maybe close in price. I went LQ9 route because my mechanic is building and blueprinting the engine and he'll warranty it for a year. Can't beat that. If something goes wrong, I have that going for me. If I were to order an assembled shortblock, no chance of a warranty.
Back to you though, sorry. I would contact some of the vendors for pricing on an assembled shortblock to your likings. 99Blanco seems to have a good builder and pricing, as well as TSP.
__________________ 2001 Z28 M6: FTRA w/ 85mm lid, Patriot LS6 Stage II Heads 59cc, Mamo Ported FAST 92/92, Scorpion 1.8 RR, 60# Injectors, 2-255 LPH Fuel Pump System, 160* Thermostat, Double Roller Timing Chain, LT Headers, OR Y-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, HP Tuners, Dynojet tune.
Moser 12 Bolt w/ 4.10's, LCA's, Monster Clutch, Koni 4/4, Strano Springs, Adjustable PHB, etc... 418 Stroker w/ PatG cam- Results to come
Used LQ9 is around $400, give or take. Forged rotating assemblies can be found for around $2500, give or take. A couple hundred for machining and balancing and we're around $3200 or so.
How much do 408+ shortblocks go for? I'm not sure exactly...
Maybe close in price. I went LQ9 route because my mechanic is building and blueprinting the engine and he'll warranty it for a year. Can't beat that. If something goes wrong, I have that going for me. If I were to order an assembled shortblock, no chance of a warranty.
Back to you though, sorry. I would contact some of the vendors for pricing on an assembled shortblock to your likings. 99Blanco seems to have a good builder and pricing, as well as TSP.
So since the price is near the same, the issues are this:
- if you build it yourself for the same price as a vendor, you can afford to put in better parts such as CompStar rods instead of Eagle.
- if you build it yourself for the same price as a vendor, you can put in better rings
- if you build it yourself for the same price as a vendor, you can use better pistons
- if you build it yourself for the same price as a vendor, you know it was done right and with care, and you have only yourself to blame if something goes wrong
__________________
Black 2001 C5 Corvette Tuned by BLUECAT Stock long block, 212/218 truck cam, LG Street headers & X-pipe, Z06 Ti mufflers, upgraded drivetrain. (And a P1SC.)
this has been a very informative thread.i was wondering what you guys would suggest for me(noob w/no mechanical experience).right now i have a bone stock ss and im currently up grading the all the stupid flaws in this f bodies(tick adj master an short throw right now for power shifts) next is a full suspension then drivetrain to handle whatever i decide to throw in it.
like one of you stated with the l92/ls3 427 that what i really want to get into down the road but it kind of sucks that i can't mod my ls1 a little an be happy for a few yrs(because it can't swap over) before i drop that kind of dough on engine i want.what it be cheaper to do 402 stroked to a 418 because of bolt ons like the fast 92/92 will swap?
if it helps im a weekend warrior tearin up the streets for fun and going to the track an running for good numbers with some of my buddies.what do you all suggest?
this has been a very informative thread.i was wondering what you guys would suggest for me(noob w/no mechanical experience).right now i have a bone stock ss and im currently up grading the all the stupid flaws in this f bodies(tick adj master an short throw right now for power shifts) next is a full suspension then drivetrain to handle whatever i decide to throw in it.
like one of you stated with the l92/ls3 427 that what i really want to get into down the road but it kind of sucks that i can't mod my ls1 a little an be happy for a few yrs(because it can't swap over) before i drop that kind of dough on engine i want.[size="3"]what it be cheaper to do 402 stroked to a 418 because of bolt ons like the fast 92/92 will swap?[/SIZE]
if it helps im a weekend warrior tearin up the streets for fun and going to the track an running for good numbers with some of my buddies.what do you all suggest?
I'm doing a 364cid stroked to 418cid. If you get a 402, just leave it a 402. But, yes, my decision was based on the fact that just about everything I threw at my LS1 can be swapped to the new build (LQ9).
__________________ 2001 Z28 M6: FTRA w/ 85mm lid, Patriot LS6 Stage II Heads 59cc, Mamo Ported FAST 92/92, Scorpion 1.8 RR, 60# Injectors, 2-255 LPH Fuel Pump System, 160* Thermostat, Double Roller Timing Chain, LT Headers, OR Y-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, HP Tuners, Dynojet tune.
Moser 12 Bolt w/ 4.10's, LCA's, Monster Clutch, Koni 4/4, Strano Springs, Adjustable PHB, etc... 418 Stroker w/ PatG cam- Results to come
I'm pretty sure my brother is going to buy the Firehawk as a roller from me. So we're discussing new build options for him, because I think I'm going to sell my 8.7:1 CR 347 that's in it. We're debating whether we should do a 347 procharged, LQ4/LQ9 iron block procharged, maybe 408 procharged, or a NA motor... 402 LS2, 408 iron, 416, etc. He may drive it 5 times a week for awhile, but eventually only about twice a week it'll be driven. He's also a fan on the "big cam" sound. I know how much money he's got to spend matters on what to do, but right now I'm leaving that open. Power goals are at least 500rwhp, 475+rwtq. This will be through a 6 speed. Eventually there will be a 9" in future mods.
How much $ difference will it cost between a built 347 & built 408, with same heads/cam/etc? If only like $1000 he would rather go with the bigger motor. Also, what CR for optimal power on a 402/408/416 NA setup pump gas?
As for the difference of either NA or Procharger, NA gives you the idea that you have to change your build to increase power numbers quite a bit. So I'm afraid he'll be like everyone else and want more power after 500rwhp, especially since he will already be spending money on bigger injectors & fuel pump upgrades. Is it worth the cost difference to go with a smaller LS based motor & procharger, or should he use that extra money for better flowing heads/intake?
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=54
This Corvette was built using the stock LS1 crank, and topped off with Patriot LQ9 stage 2 heads, nothing trick to it. With an ATI ProCharger D-1SC at 16 psi it made 740 rwhp on our Mustang Chassis Dyno. The owner took his daughter on a vacation in it and got 28 mpg. It was also used extensively on a closed road course that is 2.1 miles in length for two years, and saw more wot than most cars do in a lifetime. Bob
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curious whats the cost to stroke a 408 to a 418? is it really even worth it? i know its as simple as na or FI but is it really a difference?
I don't think stroking a 408 to a 418 is worth it. Like I mentioned above, mine was a 364 that is being bored and stroked to a 418. If you have a 408 already, stick with it...
Only difference (typically) is the stroke length. The 408 will be 4.030" X 4.000" and the 418 I'm doing will be 4.030" X 4.100". Hoping for more torque this way and big numbers without the need to rev too high since this will remain a street car mostly.
__________________ 2001 Z28 M6: FTRA w/ 85mm lid, Patriot LS6 Stage II Heads 59cc, Mamo Ported FAST 92/92, Scorpion 1.8 RR, 60# Injectors, 2-255 LPH Fuel Pump System, 160* Thermostat, Double Roller Timing Chain, LT Headers, OR Y-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, HP Tuners, Dynojet tune.
Moser 12 Bolt w/ 4.10's, LCA's, Monster Clutch, Koni 4/4, Strano Springs, Adjustable PHB, etc... 418 Stroker w/ PatG cam- Results to come
