Automotive News, Media & Press - GM Suspends Future Product Development

Automotive News is reporting what many have suspected is going on at GM for awhile now. They are freezing all product development for 2009 and 2010.

R&D, design and engineering will stop. Products already too far along to halt will be released as planned including the Camaro, the Volt (we'll see) and CTS variants. Redesigning the Corvette, fullsize trucks and SUVs, the rollout of the Cruze, new midsized sedans, everything is in limbo.

Auto show presence is also going to be scaled back. Anyone who was at the Dream Cruise this year could see that in stark contrast to years before.

All in the name of trying to save every penny and avoid bankruptcy. GM's condition is critical.

Do you have a link to this? I'd like to read more. This is sad news though...

EDIT - Nevermind, I should never be too lazy to search... I found it.

Yep, it's sad to understand the condition GM is really in today. And be old enough to remember the great history GM has had.

They have made mistakes. The future GM, if there is a future, will be much different than ever before.

I think GM and Chrysler will become one company. It's very hard to get anything bought through GMAC credit. They aren't taking any more debt on for a reason.

GM's new logo - GM is Crying

:angel: Jakes Dad

^^^ it is sad but let's just hope there is a future no matter how bleak, as long as they can hang on for 5 more years I think they'll make it. but it will be a rough 5 years.

how can they survive without bringing out new vehicles?

how can they survive without bringing out new vehicles?:engarde:

Wow!

Corvette - we have the new ZR-1
Impala - everything from 30 mpg econo family car to a 5.3
Malibu - new in 2008 -
Cobalt- changed the SS from supercharger to turbo
new unit coming soon
HHR- now offered as a truck even a Supercharged version
Aveo - New for 2009

Trucks - Trailblazer is going
Equalbox is going
Traverse - new for 2009
Tahoe - It's even green
Susburban - sam old same old redesigned 2007?
Silverado - new for 2007

I respect your opinion. Please back-up your post!

:angel: Jakes Dad
Colorado - same old same old b ut it get a V8

Scary stuff, since this is GMs future. If GM is going down we all are all going to be in a much worse situation than we are now.

I wish every car and truck were two door, RWD, 600 hp. @10K

I've read many times GM isn't building what Americans want. In reality, this is what America bought in 2007 according to Forbes.

F-150 588K down 12.5%

Silverado 526K " 2.4% :chug:

Toyota Camry 398K up 6.4

Honda Accord 322K up 10.4%

Toyota Corolla 317K down 4.0%

Honda Civic 278K up 2.2%

Impala 270K up 12.6% :chug:

Nissan Altima 239K up 26.6%

Dodge Ram 214K down 29.3%

Honda CR-V 184K up 34.9%

If we were running GM what would you build? :D

:angel: Jakes Dad

My wife needs a new car soon, I started looking at the Traverse yesterday. The Chevrolet web site SUCKS. Took nearly a minute to load the Traverse page on a 3Mbit DSL connection, and they don't have a low bandwidth version available.

All that, and nowhere did I see / could I find the powertrain specifications on it (engine displacement, transmission). Cupholders sure, but nothing on the engine. :eyes: Go back to the main page, oh wait, gotta reload the whole stinking flash page again. I gave up and found what I was looking for off-site.

Maybe they could save some money by firing their well paid web programmers and bring back some old school HTML folks that can make a reasonable web site. :lol:

Maybe they could save some money by firing their well paid web programmers and bring back some old school HTML folks that can make a reasonable web site. :lol:

All of the GM websites are garbage compared to their counterparts. The Chevy site is probably the cheesiest of them all. Marketing departments are out of touch with reality some times.

The Chevrolet web site SUCKS. Took nearly a minute to load the Traverse page on a 3Mbit DSL connection, and they don't have a low bandwidth version available.

Must be a user error on the website.. :D NO problems here, checked on two laptops and two desktops. Took all whole 20 secs to load even with the flash intro. Again you are using DSL :bang:

[QUOTE=Jakes Dad;10383567]Yep, it's sad to understand the condition GM is really in today. And be old enough to remember the great history GM has had.

I think GM and Chrysler will become one company. It's very hard to get anything bought through GMAC credit. They aren't taking any more debt on for a reason.

Just read another story that there is going to be a major announcement on the GM/Chrysler merger right around election time (Nov.4th). Right now I guess GM is looking for $10 billion and a promise not to dissolve Chrysler completely in order to get the loan/bailout approved...

The Traverse is assembled in the old Tennessee Saturn plant. Has one basic engine - Indeed it's the 3.6 with 281 or 288 hp.

I assume it's identical to the Saturn whatever as well as the Buick but don't tell anyone. It's got the new Chevrolet nose. From our seen one you've seen them all design team. :D

:angel: Jakes Dad

:engarde:

Wow!

Corvette - we have the new ZR-1
Impala - everything from 30 mpg econo family car to a 5.3
Malibu - new in 2008 -
Cobalt- changed the SS from supercharger to turbo
new unit coming soon
HHR- now offered as a truck even a Supercharged version
Aveo - New for 2009

Trucks - Trailblazer is going
Equalbox is going
Traverse - new for 2009
Tahoe - It's even green
Susburban - sam old same old redesigned 2007?
Silverado - new for 2007

I respect your opinion. Please back-up your post!

:angel: Jakes Dad
Colorado - same old same old b ut it get a V8


i asked a question. feel free to answer without sarcasm. i still think its a bad idea to halt future products. in case you didnt notice GM isnt doing well right now with its current lineup. but neither is anyone else.

Sucks to hear, but they will pull out of it.

My wife needs a new car soon, I started looking at the Traverse yesterday. The Chevrolet web site SUCKS. Took nearly a minute to load the Traverse page on a 3Mbit DSL connection, and they don't have a low bandwidth version available.

All that, and nowhere did I see / could I find the powertrain specifications on it (engine displacement, transmission). Cupholders sure, but nothing on the engine. :eyes: Go back to the main page, oh wait, gotta reload the whole stinking flash page again. I gave up and found what I was looking for off-site.

Maybe they could save some money by firing their well paid web programmers and bring back some old school HTML folks that can make a reasonable web site. :lol:

While I agree with you that the website sucks, it wasn't any harder than clicking one of the three "traverse models" buttons to find powertrain information at the very top of the list.

All I can say is Im not surprised. This is what happens when a car company completely looses touch with their potential buyers. They have been a step back for so many years ago that this news is just the logical ending. I think in the future GM will go away and only Chevrolet as a company will remain.

All I can say is Im not surprised. This is what happens when a car company completely looses touch with their potential buyers. They have been a step back for so many years ago that this news is just the logical ending. I think in the future GM will go away and only Chevrolet as a company will remain.


cadillac too but that might be it in NA.

The decision makes sense given their condition and what the auto market is likely to be for the next couple of years. Hopefully development will kick in to bring fresh product on line just as the auto market begins to recover.

In the meantime, they may need to go bankrupt ... probably the best thing that can happen for the long haul.

It's sad to see GM go. Had to sell my GM stocks last week.

The only way they're gonna survive our current situation, is if American buyers finally realize that it's better for us to spend $22k on an American car than to send $20k to Japan. Sometimes you've gotta suck up your personal loss for the gain of your country. At this rate, we may as well hold up a white flag for Japan to come take over. Our people have no loyalty to ourselves, or they're just plain ignorant.

but why buy that american car that has a lot shittier build quality, long term use and the like?

America needs to build what they want and at our expectations otherwise we'll buy elsewhere.

but why buy that american car that has a lot shittier build quality, long term use and the like?

Shittier build quality then what; a Hyundai, a Kia, a Mitsu or a Suzuki or the POS Toyota RAV4 that I have that only has 39k on it and is falling apart. Yeh GM has real shitty build quality compared to the vehicles above. People need to wake up and realize that not all "Foreign" vehicles are "Superior", The one common thread these "Foreign" companies have is they don't support American Jobs and there are plenty that have worse build quality then many GM vehicle.

Why did GM stop dev on the Cruze? That is what they need to be pushing.

The only way they're gonna survive our current situation, is if American buyers finally realize that it's better for us to spend $22k on an American car than to send $20k to Japan. Sometimes you've gotta suck up your personal loss for the gain of your country. At this rate, we may as well hold up a white flag for Japan to come take over. Our people have no loyalty to ourselves, or they're just plain ignorant.I cannot agree with you any more than I do right now. :nod: :usa:

but why buy that american car that has a lot shittier build quality, long term use and the like?Says who?:huh:
Generalize much? :eyes:





America needs to build what they want and at our expectations otherwise we'll buy elsewhere.Speak for yourself. And please don't use terms/phrases such as 'America needs' and 'we'll buy' like that because it implies that everyone agrees with you.
And simply put, not everyone does.

i asked a question. feel free to answer without sarcasm. i still think its a bad idea to halt future products. in case you didnt notice GM isnt doing well right now with its current lineup. but neither is anyone else.


Sorry, I took your original post about GM being in trouble because they don't bring out new products; more of a statement than a question.

The reason GM has stopped future products is: THEY ARE BROKE. No one will allow them to borrow more money. Their stock is almost worthless.

You asked me to answer with no sarcasm. "In case you didn't notice GM isn't doing well right now with it's current lineup." was your statement! I guess you've missed the fact since I began posting here. I work for a Chevrolet dealer. I've been in and out of the auto related business for the past 40 years. Still don't have all the answers, just an opinion!!

You made the statement GM isn't doing too well with it's current line-up.

I identifed two of the best selling 10 products in 2007 were Chevrolet. Not bad. I wish there were more. Interesting, how Consumer Reports says the Malibu is one of their best of the best. The Honda was another pick. Interesting, how one of the top 10 in sales made the best of the best list.

It's hard for the car companies to build products people are willing to buy. What is selling, in volume, that GM doesn't make?

And again, if you ran GM what would you make?:bang:

GM has too many duplicate products.. The biggest problem for GM is the service department.

:angel: Jakes Dad

The reason GM has stopped future products is: THEY ARE BROKE. No one will allow them to borrow more money. Their stock is almost worthless.

:angel: Jakes Dad

I can't start to say how much I HATE this!!!!!!!

I've been a GM customer for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! :usa:

I can't even imagine how bad things will be IF GM goes under. And no doubt IF GM goes under.... Ford and Chrysler will either be first or right behind them.... or thereabouts anyway.

They(GM) have been going through $1 Billion per month of cash.... I hate to think it.... but I wonder how long they will last even with a bailout???

I hate to say it... but the idea of a company going out of business that makes your car/truck you just bought makes for poor consumer confidence..... warranty issues.

Still though... I can't imagine the US government will allow the US auto industry to go belly-up.

I think GM will still still be around for many years to come.... although we may see a much differant GM and as another poster stated..... GM may go away and just become Chevrolet.

A bailout only puts off the inevitable for GM and won't help the company last long.

Sadly, the US government probably isn't going to let GM or Ford go bankrupt like they should. All three US automakers would be vastly better off bankrupt and have an opportunity to reorganize without all their brands, plants, and dealers.

GM would have been in a better position had it sized itself down to Chevrolet and Cadillac years ago.

A bailout only puts off the inevitable for GM and won't help the company last long.

Sadly, the US government probably isn't going to let GM or Ford go bankrupt like they should. All three US automakers would be vastly better off bankrupt and have an opportunity to reorganize without all their brands, plants, and dealers.

GM would have been in a better position had it sized itself down to Chevrolet and Cadillac years ago.

I argee. It doesn't fix the cash flow issue. Just gives them more time to dwell in this failure.

I think GM will still still be around for many years to come.... although we may see a much differant GM and as another poster stated.....I agree. :usa:

Time to start saving for my 2020 Toyota Corvette??? :(Not me. :disgust: :barf:
I'd sooner take the bus...unless of course that'll be made by Toyota/Honda as well LOL. :lol:

Me too.

I hated the thought so much I had even went back and deleted the post.

I don't know.... a bailout "may" be the right answer.... that is IF GM use it wisely. Which will mean.... dumping some product lines.... shrinking the size of the company and reducing cost.

I haven't bought anything other than a GM product in years :usa:

.... I really don't want to have to buy a Toyota somewhere in the future. :(

There's a reason why dinosaurs are extinct
(except for 'gators). We need cars made by
small furry mammals. American small furry
mammals, but mammals nonetheless. The
reptiles in charge have no friggin' clue.

Won't see me buy a new car any decade
soon. This one was enough. Car is fine,
but the economics are just stupid. At
least for anyone who can slap Bondo,
shoot paint (or use a brush, like my last
beater) and turn a wrench.

Lucky for Toyota there are still plenty of
apartment-dwellers without opposable
thumbs.

I don't know.... a bailout "may" be the right answer.... that is IF GM use it wisely. Which will mean.... dumping some product lines.... shrinking the size of the company and reducing cost.

And firing the whole executive branch.
Sadly, I also think the best thing for GM is to down size, but I think Chevrolet should be cars only, and GMC be trucks only, and then Cadillac. I have a lot of mixed feelings on the GM/Chrysler merger, makes me kind of nausious....

I haven't bought anything other than a GM product in years :usa:Same here. :thumb:




I really don't want to have to buy a Toyota somewhere in the future. :(Same here. :nono:

And firing the whole executive branch.
Sadly, I also think the best thing for GM is to down size, but I think Chevrolet should be cars only, and GMC be trucks only, and then Cadillac. I have a lot of mixed feelings on the GM/Chrysler merger, makes me kind of nausious....

Sorry... but believe me when I say that the Silverado isn't going anywhere.

Back when it was like this GM was doing better...

Chevy - a mix of some smaller cars, larger cars, some SUVs, and trucks, vans.
GMC - trucks bigger trucks and vans and the like.
Saturn - small cars
Pontiac - mostly cars, with more of a performance edge to them
Buick - little more luxury cars but without breaking the bank. In between Chevy and Cadillac.
Cadillac - full-blown luxury cars.

Right now there is so much of the same vehicle between all of them that it almost gets confusing. I think they need to get them more individualized again.

Maybe I'm off base but that is how I used to see GM vehicles.

Sorry, I took your original post about GM being in trouble because they don't bring out new products; more of a statement than a question.

The reason GM has stopped future products is: THEY ARE BROKE. No one will allow them to borrow more money. Their stock is almost worthless.

You asked me to answer with no sarcasm. "In case you didn't notice GM isn't doing well right now with it's current lineup." was your statement! I guess you've missed the fact since I began posting here. I work for a Chevrolet dealer. I've been in and out of the auto related business for the past 40 years. Still don't have all the answers, just an opinion!!

You made the statement GM isn't doing too well with it's current line-up.

I identifed two of the best selling 10 products in 2007 were Chevrolet. Not bad. I wish there were more. Interesting, how Consumer Reports says the Malibu is one of their best of the best. The Honda was another pick. Interesting, how one of the top 10 in sales made the best of the best list.

It's hard for the car companies to build products people are willing to buy. What is selling, in volume, that GM doesn't make?

And again, if you ran GM what would you make?:bang:

GM has too many duplicate products.. The biggest problem for GM is the service department.

:angel: Jakes Dad

good answer. however GM continues to lose money and sales every quarter and i dont think stopping future product development is a good idea with the way the industry changes so quickly. isnt that part of the reason theyre in this mess?

but yes serv. dept do suck though a few brands are highly rated.

Back when it was like this GM was doing better...

Chevy - a mix of some smaller cars, larger cars, some SUVs, and trucks, vans.
GMC - trucks bigger trucks and vans and the like.
Saturn - small cars
Pontiac - mostly cars, with more of a performance edge to them
Buick - little more luxury cars but without breaking the bank. In between Chevy and Cadillac.
Cadillac - full-blown luxury cars.

Right now there is so much of the same vehicle between all of them that it almost gets confusing. I think they need to get them more individualized again.

Maybe I'm off base but that is how I used to see GM vehicles.

I agree. Back in the 60's and before, all of the GM brands had their on engines. In the 70's GM started creating "corporate engines" when they got caught putting Chevy engines in their other brands. I think this is when all the GM brands started on their way to looking too similar. I can see why they did what they did, as it had to have cut a lot of cost. But at the same time, then do they really need all these brands, especially after they no longer have a "rocket engine" in an Oldsmobile, etc. Bob

I don't know.... a bailout "may" be the right answer.... that is IF GM use it wisely.

They squandered billions upon billions, why would anyone give them more?

They squandered billions upon billions, why would anyone give them more?

Didn't stop Wall Street from getting a 700 billion dollar check.

Just saying....

I personally look forward to the day when I can hire all my unemployeed ex-GM friends to do my yardwork for me. We'll see who bragging about their payrates then.

I don't know.... a bailout "may" be the right answer.... that is IF GM use it wisely.


They squandered billions upon billions, why would anyone give them more?

Well... I did say IF!!!

But.... I think before the US government would allow the entire US auto industry to fail.... you may find that the auto "bailout" becomes little more than a subsidy...... especially when you consider the banking and AIG bailout(s).

In other words.... I expect to see several bailouts(2 or more) before the US government throws in the towel on the US auto industry.

I think any bailout ought to bust 'em up,
into smaller unrelated companies like before
the marques lost all their independent
personality. We need competition and
variety of choices, not a bland monolith
that just plays badge games. Big and
bloated is the problem, big and bloated
and living on loans is not the solution.

Building something you really believe in,
for a customer base you can focus on,
is a more likely way to succeed. Or at
least a better way to die.

Trouble is, without a zillion piece-of-tinfoil
money-losing econoboxes in your product
mix, CAFE will screw the muscle (work or
play) segment.

We need the "open-source automobile".

Give them the loans with "conditions".

You can bet this; The Japanese wouldn't let their #1 automotive company go down the tubes and niether would the Koreans. The people there, and their governments realize the need to support their OEMs...We could learn a lesson in that.

Give them the loans with "conditions".

You can bet this; The Japanese wouldn't let their #1 automotive company go down the tubes and niether would the Koreans. The people there, and their governments realize the need to support their OEMs...We could learn a lesson in that.Absolutely and 100% TRUE!
In fact, Japan has been 'nurturing' and subsidizing their automotive industry (among other industries) all along. The combination of Sony, Toyota, Panasonic, Honda etc has been called Japan, Inc. for many years now and their is a valid reason for that.
Need help selling cars in your home market? Simple, just charge Japanese citizens $50k for a Malibu and only $20k for a Camry :rolleyes: and guess which one they'll buy.

I think it's time for the U.S. to start taxing/tariffing the crap out of import nameplate brand vehicles (and NOT just the ones brought in on boats) just like they do to U.S. nameplate brands in their home nation.
Want a Camry or Accord that badly? Ok, $45k please and the excess cash gets put back into a fund to help pay unemployment and health benefits for unemployed/displaced American auto workers.

Gotta be careful when you suggest tarrifs. There are ramifications to many far beyond the immediate parties. Example: steel tarrifs to save the jobs of steel workers. Price of foreign steel went up to match the higher price of US steel. Steel industry saved, yay!

What happened next? Let's look at one company in one industry: Caterpillar. An average bulldozer has what, 50,000 pounds of steel in it? An increase in the price of steel really hits them hard. Companies like Caterpillar and those who made large equipment realized it was cheaper for them to close down plants here in the US, build new plants in Europe, hire non-union workers, build the large equipment overseas, and ship them back to the states. Same thing happened with most if not all of the larger farm tractors. Very few of them are made in the US anymore. Sooo...to save steel industry jobs we enacted a steel tarrif that killed off (along with the help of union labor costs) many times more manufacturing jobs.

That being said, if there are cases like Japan imposing massive taxes and tarrifs on products coming in, we should mirror their policies without hesitation or delay.

Back on topic, I hate to see development halted. I understand they are out of money and trying to survive but stopping development to save cash ensures lower revenue in the coming months and years. To me this signals they have given up on planning for a tomorrow and are just trying to survive today...pretty much making the prospect for a tomorrow even darker.

Gotta be careful when you suggest tarrifs. There are ramifications to many far beyond the immediate parties. Example: steel tarrifs to save the jobs of steel workers. Price of foreign steel went up to match the higher price of US steel. Steel industry saved, yay!

What happened next? Let's look at one company in one industry: Caterpillar. An average bulldozer has what, 50,000 pounds of steel in it? An increase in the price of steel really hits them hard. Companies like Caterpillar and those who made large equipment realized it was cheaper for them to close down plants here in the US, build new plants in Europe, hire non-union workers, build the large equipment overseas, and ship them back to the states. Same thing happened with most if not all of the larger farm tractors. Very few of them are made in the US anymore. Sooo...to save steel industry jobs we enacted a steel tarrif that killed off (along with the help of union labor costs) many times more manufacturing jobs.

That being said, if there are cases like Japan imposing massive taxes and tarrifs on products coming in, we should mirror their policies without hesitation or delay.Good point, it is a potentially slippery slope/fine line that needs to be walked.
Make it direct then...if a base Malibu sells for $45k in Japan then a base Camry sells for $45k in the U.S.
Fair is fair.
And yes, that should apply to a Camry built in Kentucky or Indiana as well as one built in Japan or Thailand.

Gotta be careful when you suggest tarrifs. There are ramifications to many far beyond the immediate parties. Example: steel tarrifs to save the jobs of steel workers. Price of foreign steel went up to match the higher price of US steel. Steel industry saved, yay!

What happened next? Let's look at one company in one industry: Caterpillar. An average bulldozer has what, 50,000 pounds of steel in it? An increase in the price of steel really hits them hard. Companies like Caterpillar and those who made large equipment realized it was cheaper for them to close down plants here in the US, build new plants in Europe, hire non-union workers, build the large equipment overseas, and ship them back to the states. Same thing happened with most if not all of the larger farm tractors. Very few of them are made in the US anymore. Sooo...to save steel industry jobs we enacted a steel tarrif that killed off (along with the help of union labor costs) many times more manufacturing jobs.


Poor comparison.
One is a commodity/raw material.
The other is an end user product.
Apples & Oranges.
Tariffs on automobiles would work fine.

Look what Tariffs did for Harley Davidson to help them get back on their feet!

Poor comparison.
One is a commodity/raw material.
The other is an end user product.
Apples & Oranges.
Tariffs on automobiles would work fine.

Look what Tariffs did for Harley Davidson to help them get back on their feet!:werd: :nod:

Poor comparison.
One is a commodity/raw material.
The other is an end user product.
Apples & Oranges.
Tariffs on automobiles would work fine.

Look what Tariffs did for Harley Davidson to help them get back on their feet!

:werd: :nod:

I couldn't agree more. Everyone says that a car made in America is an American car, but when all of the profits go out of the country and our economy, what good are we doing. I understand that Americans are working in the factories, but it's not enough. We should have a 1:1 trade relation. For every 1 car that Toyota wants to sell here, they have to purchase one American car by the big three or pay a premium.

The biggest problem with this country right now is the difference between imported goods verses exported goods, and to correct that, the guy who promised "CHANGE" had better start to do something about it. He campaigned against giving tax breaks to US companies, but without those tax breaks and incentives, we'd be going under at a quicker pace. How about we coincide those tax breaks with tax penalties for NON-American companies to operate and sell in the US.

GM forever.

GM forever.:werd: :usa: :cool: :thumb:

^^^^^^^Agreed!!!!!!!!!!

GM for life.

It's sad to see GM go. Had to sell my GM stocks last week.

The only way they're gonna survive our current situation, is if American buyers finally realize that it's better for us to spend $22k on an American car than to send $20k to Japan. Sometimes you've gotta suck up your personal loss for the gain of your country. At this rate, we may as well hold up a white flag for Japan to come take over. Our people have no loyalty to ourselves, or they're just plain ignorant.

i agree 100%. say isn't that a honda in your sig???

GM IS forever SCREWED.

Fixed.

Since my father was 18 my family has not owned any product except a chevrolet. I had chrysler in the driveway for 3 months and he told me i better have a chevy soon or the chrysler was getting junked.

We did our part to help.

:engarde:

Wow!

Corvette - we have the new ZR-1
Impala - everything from 30 mpg econo family car to a 5.3
Malibu - new in 2008 -
Cobalt- changed the SS from supercharger to turbo
new unit coming soon
HHR- now offered as a truck even a Supercharged version
Aveo - New for 2009

Trucks - Trailblazer is going
Equalbox is going
Traverse - new for 2009
Tahoe - It's even green
Susburban - sam old same old redesigned 2007?
Silverado - new for 2007

I respect your opinion. Please back-up your post!

:angel: Jakes Dad
Colorado - same old same old b ut it get a V8

Everything on that thing is all trash. I wouldn't spend more than 10k on any of those shitboxes.

Corvette and their trucks is all they have.

Everything on that thing is all trash. I wouldn't spend more than 10k on any of those shitboxes.

Corvette and their trucks is all they have.


My '06 Cobalt SS runs quite well, here is a link to it.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=57

Car&Driver rates the new turbo Cobalt SS as one of the best small cars you can buy. Here's a pretty cool video of the new Cobalt on the track.
http://www.autojab.com/video-2008-chevrolet-cobalt-ss-turbo-in-nurburgring/ Bob

Everything on that thing is all trash. I wouldn't spend more than 10k on any of those shitboxes.That's fine.
Not everyone can be an educated consumer. ;)

Anyone who would not at least consider the latest versions of these awesome GM or Ford vehicles available right now at virtual FIRE SALE prices is in my opinion, no offense, a friggin' idiot.
To pay $20k for a base Civic when a Cobalt/G5 is only $11k after discounts/rebates? You'd have to be REALLY stupid. :lol:

I'll stick to BMWs thank you.

Though I agree, the G8 GT under $30 is a steal. I just would not even consider driving any of the other vehicles on that list. Consider is one thing, I don't even acknowledge they exist. I hate riding in them, nevermind driving them. The GM daily drivers have come a long way, but they've also got a long ways to go.