Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - BBC, goal: 500+hp n/a your advice wanted

So i have a 454 bored .030 over that made low 3xx hp and ~390 tq. I would like to be at ~500 hp N/A and be able to throw a 100-150 shot on top of that.

What would you guys suggest? Let me know if you need more info!

sounds like your compression is real low. If it is your going to have a hard time getting there. I would get the compression up around 11.1 049 heads with big valves and bowl ported or 781`s solid cam around 250/260 on a 110 single plane intake and your there easy.

My 90 over 454 with trw dome pistions and a big hydralic cam with 049 head and big valves not even bowl ported ran 11.20s at 118 with 4.11 gears and a 10 inch converter.

Is this for a street car or a play toy?

Street / Strip car, more so on the street.

By the way, comfort is the last on my list. I'll DD just about anything, lol

Crank the compression up to at least 10.5, good aluminum heads, single plane intake, good carb, good cam and there you go have a nice day..... oh nice exhaust to.

The 468 BBC that I pulled out of my car had forged pistions with factory rods and crank and it took a 300 shot no problem and on a 2 bolt main block. Invest in some forged pistons and some ARP rod bolts and don't worry about the bottom end.

Yeah, only problem atm is since i bought the engine used with ~2k miles on it, what the guy tells me has it in could always possibly be wrong =/

But he said it has
-Keith Black Hyperutectic Flat Top Pistons
-7/16 ARP Rod Bolts
-Closed Chamber Heads from a 66 427 vette
-4.25 stroke cast steel crankshaft
-forged h-beam connecting rods

Cam Specs say..
- Hydraulic
- 14 dur @ .050
**If there's more I should list to help let me know

-It has a 750 holley double pump

Well, if what he said is true, you need to bumo up the cam size if you mean 215 duration @ .050, that is too small, you could go with 252/254 duration at .050 and .600 lift area and make 500 HP.

Would I be able to just install the Cam? Or will I have to do heads with it

How is this cam?
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2119&gid=279

I noticed in one post you said a 4.25" stroke crank. If that is true, you don't have a 468. In a .030" over 454 block, that would be a 496. With that many cubes and the 105cc chambers that come on the 1966 427 closed chamber heads, you will end up with close to 9:1 compression. Using a steel shim head gasket will up that a little (maybe 1/2 a point). I would still have the heads shaved to get the compression up to 9.75:1 (real measured compression). Keep the heads. Spend your money on a decent hydraulic roller cam (look at the Comp Thumper Series...tight LSA for good midrange torque). That along with good headers (1 7/8 primaries), intake (RPM air gap) and exhaust system should get you to your mark.

Put a custom swirl inducing air filter and run red valve covers and you could see 800hp, red valve covers reduce friction and a tornado intake will produce 10-12psi at 200+mph.;)
-Jeremy

I noticed in one post you said a 4.25" stroke crank. If that is true, you don't have a 468. In a .030" over 454 block, that would be a 496. With that many cubes and the 105cc chambers that come on the 1966 427 closed chamber heads, you will end up with close to 9:1 compression. Using a steel shim head gasket will up that a little (maybe 1/2 a point). I would still have the heads shaved to get the compression up to 9.75:1 (real measured compression). Keep the heads. Spend your money on a decent hydraulic roller cam (look at the Comp Thumper Series...tight LSA for good midrange torque). That along with good headers (1 7/8 primaries), intake (RPM air gap) and exhaust system should get you to your mark.

When I bought it, the guy said it was a 491 "stroker" motor, 454 bored .030 over to 491 but that didn't add up to me.

Any link to the cam or headers? that'd be awesome, it has Hooker Headers currently.

Put a custom swirl inducing air filter and run red valve covers and you could see 800hp, red valve covers reduce friction and a tornado intake will produce 10-12psi at 200+mph.;)
-Jeremy

Really? Fucking sick because my heads are already a yellowish, why doesn't that add like 100whp?

Should I get some stickers? Maybe a Nismo sticker will help. :engarde:

How is this cam?
http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2119&gid=279


That cam is a little small but with your compression it would probably be pretty good, I would take the heads off and mill the crap out of them but thats just me. Just put some nitrous on it and go, then later change the pistions.

I am not sure how to post links for you (I'm not very techno-savy!). I bought the cam from summit and a set of hooker super comps with 1 7/8 primaries for my 1971 monte Carlo (It also has a 496 in it). Another (and better) option is to contact Comp directly (compcams.com). They are very easy to work with. I sent an email about some beehive valve spring questions (to use on my big block) and they got back to me that day. They could make a good recommendation on the cam to use and they will also make sure you get the correct lifters, springs and retainers. The Thumper series might not like a big shot of nitrous (tight LSA)...better ask them about that too. Good luck!

I am not sure how to post links for you (I'm not very techno-savy!). I bought the cam from summit and a set of hooker super comps with 1 7/8 primaries for my 1971 monte Carlo (It also has a 496 in it). Another (and better) option is to contact Comp directly (compcams.com). They are very easy to work with. I sent an email about some beehive valve spring questions (to use on my big block) and they got back to me that day. They could make a good recommendation on the cam to use and they will also make sure you get the correct lifters, springs and retainers. The Thumper series might not like a big shot of nitrous (tight LSA)...better ask them about that too. Good luck!

Thanks a bunch for the info, I'm going to probably give them a call later to see their input

Really? Fucking sick because my heads are already a yellowish, why doesn't that add like 100whp?

Should I get some stickers? Maybe a Nismo sticker will help. :engarde:

No, no, no! You will need a non-functional spoiler for your roof and a 72" plasma tv mounted on the hood so you can watch engine diagnostics while driving. Take out your speedo too because real racers can feel speed, they dont need a gauge telling them about it.

No, no, no! You will need a non-functional spoiler for your roof and a 72" plasma tv mounted on the hood so you can watch engine diagnostics while driving. Take out your speedo too because real racers can feel speed, they dont need a gauge telling them about it.

Read my mind!



I actually drove about 3-4 months with a broken speedo, was awkward when you're guessing your speed with a cop on your ass running your plates :bang:

My speedo stopped working when i put my T56 in, it only went to 85 anyways, Lol.

Heads are #3872702

made L 3 67 (Dec 3, 1967 i presume)

So far I'm thinking ported heads + a bigger cam.

What will I need with the cam valvetrain wise?

Just trying to price it :bang:

Thanks everyone for helping

I could tell you want you need to get 500hp but it wont do any good with a stock converter and 3.08 gears, If you want a real 500 hp then you need at least a 3500 stall and 4.10 or 3.73 gears. I am guessing your car is around 3600lbs or so. You need screw in studs in the heads and roller rockers so you dont break the stock stuff.

Car has either 3:73 or 3:08s im not sure, and has a 2500 stall converter

Rocker studs are 7/16 ARPs

Take a look at the jan 09 issues of popular hot rodding.they do a buildup of a motor very similar to yours although they have afr heads.big cubes want compression and carb.650 plus horse.i think you should hit the 500 mark fairly easy.

The 2500 convertor may be plenty...depending on the internal design. When you see a stall rating for a converter, it is a general (not specific) number. That same converter may stall to 3500 behind a big block with 550ft-lbs of torque. As for the gears, 3.73:1 will probably be overkill. 3.08's might be a little too high, but a good compromise for a street car. I had a friend who ran low 12's with a trans am that had a stroked 455 in it. He had 3.23's. That thing would almost pull the front tires (with slicks)! I wouldn't worry too much about the gears and converter for now. Build the engine...run the car...and then see where you are at. Your biggest problem will be traction. I would spend money on some suspension parts (if your budget allows). Don't know what your car is, so I can't make any specific recommendations about suspension.

car is a 1970 Camaro

I was planning on working on suspension and getting some nittos but after dynoing wanted to work on getting closer to 500rwhp first rather than the 330/390

Dont spray it without Head STUDS!! you will lift the heads with anything more than a 100shot.

If you are going to port your heads then mill them as well! They are already off anyways, and it wont cost much for a machine shop to mill them down.

If I were you I would Mill/Port your heads, get a healthy hydraulic roller (Daily driving a solid roller sucks, valve lash adjustments FTL), and look at your carb/intake combo that is where you decide if you want your power in the midrange (rpm air gap) or up high (single plane victor jr.)

If you have the extra coin then just buy a set of cnc aluminum BBC heads (Dart, RHS, AFR) I am sure your 66' 427 heads would bring some dough on ebay or something!

Either way, GOOD LUCK! I love 70' Camaros almost as much as I love my x66 69' Camaro!!!

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2095&autoview=sku

Dont spray it without Head STUDS!! you will lift the heads with anything more than a 100shot.

If you are going to port your heads then mill them as well! They are already off anyways, and it wont cost much for a machine shop to mill them down.

If I were you I would Mill/Port your heads, get a healthy hydraulic roller (Daily driving a solid roller sucks, valve lash adjustments FTL), and look at your carb/intake combo that is where you decide if you want your power in the midrange (rpm air gap) or up high (single plane victor jr.)

If you have the extra coin then just buy a set of cnc aluminum BBC heads (Dart, RHS, AFR) I am sure your 66' 427 heads would bring some dough on ebay or something!

Either way, GOOD LUCK! I love 70' Camaros almost as much as I love my x66 69' Camaro!!!



Why would he lift he heads with 100 shot any thing will take 100 shot, I hit mine wiith 250 all the time with stock head bolts.

car is a 1970 Camaro

I was planning on working on suspension and getting some nittos but after dynoing wanted to work on getting closer to 500rwhp first rather than the 330/390


Who cares how much hp it has what do you want it to run in the 1/4 or do you just want to go around saying you have 500rwhp and run 12s not being an ass, just wondering what you really want.

Who cares how much hp it has what do you want it to run in the 1/4 or do you just want to go around saying you have 500rwhp and run 12s not being an ass, just wondering what you really want.

Well I do want it to do well at the track, I want to run a good time there and do well on the street digs/rolls.

I don't want it to be a dyno queen, I just thought it was very underpowered for a BBC

What cam do you have now? do you have more info on it? duration @50 and lift advertised duration? I wouldnt even worry about the dyno, just run it, tune it by time slips. All you need is good converter, gears and traction.

That's a big DUH on my part! I should have realized it was 1970 Camaro by looking at your posts a little more closely. For decent traction at the track (but still useable on the street), I would get a set of Caltack bars, remove the front sway bar (at the track), a cheap set of skinny front tires and some Hoosier Quicktime Pro's for the rear. Get some shims for your leafspring pads so you can drop your pinion angle to -2 degrees. Forget the Nittos. You'll have a real hard time hooking with those and a big block. I'd also stay away from drag shocks since you want to drive it. Light, skinny front tires and no sway bar will really help with the weight transfer.

Head info according to Mortec (http://www.mortec.com/bbc.htm)


3872702....65-66...oval..CLOSED..396, 427, 98cc chamber

Why would he lift he heads with 100 shot any thing will take 100 shot, I hit mine wiith 250 all the time with stock head bolts.

.....ok, go ahead and spray "any motor" with nitrous and tell me what happens. We are trying to give him decent build info...not "How to Blow Your Motor in 10 Seconds" He obviously Daily Drives it, so why would he chance nitrous on STOCK shit that he ISNT EVEN SURE is or is not there. If he wants to spray it at least tear it down an see what is really in the bottom end. Forged Pistons and ARP rod bolts w/ ARP head studs will make the motor safe to 250-300 shot. Along with a safe tune but that should be a given..

He also said he thinks he has hypereutectic pistons....which are SHIT for nitrous use.

.....ok, go ahead and spray "any motor" with nitrous and tell me what happens. We are trying to give him decent build info...not "How to Blow Your Motor in 10 Seconds" He obviously Daily Drives it, so why would he chance nitrous on STOCK shit that he ISNT EVEN SURE is or is not there. If he wants to spray it at least tear it down an see what is really in the bottom end. Forged Pistons and ARP rod bolts w/ ARP head studs will make the motor safe to 250-300 shot. Along with a safe tune but that should be a given..

He also said he thinks he has hypereutectic pistons....which are SHIT for nitrous use.


Well you said lifting the head, thats not going to happen but i agree the hyper pistions are not so good, but they should take 100 shot no problem if you can tun and have any brains at all. I have never blown up any engine with nitrous and i am 42 years old and have been doing this for 25 years. He doesn need to figure out what he has though.

This was the recommendation from comp cams

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=445&sb=2

And tomorrow I plan on calling a friends shop to see how much to get my heads milled/ported :D

This was the recommendation from comp cams

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=445&sb=2

And tomorrow I plan on calling a friends shop to see how much to get my heads milled/ported :D

If you plan on dropping $800-1000 on a cam kit then that cam will work fine, but you need to get a set of $400+ retrofit hyd roller lifters to use that camshaft. Just go with a hyd flat tappet cam like the 292 Magnum it makes GREAT power and will sound MEAN at idle. It gives a very nice and broad torque curve and will pull VERY HARD until 6500rpm with the right heads, dont over think it and stick with a proven combo the works and that cam flat works.

Porting and milling the heads will help, but you just cant make huge power with oval closed chambers to be honest. I'd say 500-550hp is really pushing it with low compression, remeber you cant flat mill a ton off of them but you can raise the comp a little, angle milling is an option but make sure the shop knows whatr their doing before the cut your heads. You can also run a steel shim type head gasket to get another .25 point or so and every bit is going to help in you quest for power with you mill. You can make a TON of torque with ovals and they are very good for the street, just dont expect too much from them as far as high RPM power. They get asthmatic above 6000 RPM and just cant move the air you need to rev it up..... My .36 cents hope it helps

BTW A 250 hit of juice is NOTHING for even a stock big block when tuned properly, dont listen to those who dont know!

My old BBC was a 468 with stock rods (including rod bolts) and crank with forged pistons and it loved a 300 shot....

Car was also shifted at 7000 (rectangular heads)

Head bolts were aftermarket but not ARP or anything, everything lived for at least 10,000 miles no problems.

BBC's are NOT SBC's. They will take a beating, even the stock main caps are HUGE, you could throw one and cause serious bodily injury to someone.....


Oval port head BBC heads suck when it comes to making some good power.

Dont spray it without Head STUDS!! you will lift the heads with anything more than a 100shot.


You sure about that? A bunch of us that are on or have been on a 300 shot with no head studs..... no problems at all.

If you plan on dropping $800-1000 on a cam kit then that cam will work fine, but you need to get a set of $400+ retrofit hyd roller lifters to use that camshaft. Just go with a hyd flat tappet cam like the 292 Magnum it makes GREAT power and will sound MEAN at idle. It gives a very nice and broad torque curve and will pull VERY HARD until 6500rpm with the right heads, dont over think it and stick with a proven combo the works and that cam flat works.

Porting and milling the heads will help, but you just cant make huge power with oval closed chambers to be honest. I'd say 500-550hp is really pushing it with low compression, remeber you cant flat mill a ton off of them but you can raise the comp a little, angle milling is an option but make sure the shop knows whatr their doing before the cut your heads. You can also run a steel shim type head gasket to get another .25 point or so and every bit is going to help in you quest for power with you mill. You can make a TON of torque with ovals and they are very good for the street, just dont expect too much from them as far as high RPM power. They get asthmatic above 6000 RPM and just cant move the air you need to rev it up..... My .36 cents hope it helps

BTW A 250 hit of juice is NOTHING for even a stock big block when tuned properly, dont listen to those who dont know!

Your car sounds awesome!

Yeah.. im thinking to do the heads and cam first so it makes decent power n/a then spray a 150 shot or so.

ill check out the cam you mentioned for sure! thanks

-Mike

So do you guys think i should opt for new heads opposed to getting mine ported?

You may as well, as a set of open chambers will totally kill your compression without a piston swap as well. Just keep it basic until you decide to build a new mill or tear down, freshen&upgrade.....

I'll see if I can find some pics of my car to post for ya to see!

Yeah, I want to build this motor to be decently beast, be able to do well on the street and on the track and then not touch the motor once it's decently set up a little.

And since I'll be content, I've thought about building a SBC piece by piece on the side so i can have a ton of fun with the car, and throw a built 350 in it i can rev to the moon and either boost or spray the piss out of it :devil:

Some heads on here but A little to big

http://www.midweststreetcars.com/smf/index.php?topic=3321.0

I still havent seen his cam specs. out of 3 pages of post. If you have flat top hyper's get some forged pistons with the right dome. then you fix the weakest link in your setup. Give us specs on cam... And then We can give you better advice. If you mill the shit out of your heads then you start having pushrod and intake issues. Why do it the retarded way when you can do it right.