Automotive News, Media & Press - Big 3 CEO's

I was watching ABC news this morning and saw a piece on the Big 3 automakers and their begging for $25 billion in TAX PAYERS MONEY. These asswipes CEO's have the gall to show up in their private jets to grovel for assistance to keep their companies up and running. The reporter went up to the CEO's of GM and Ford and asked them about this, of course the slime balls try and evade his questioning. Following that the reporter states how the private jet flights from Detroit to Washington D.C. cost them approximately $20,000 each compared to the $800 it would have cost them to fly first class round trip. I wonder how many vehiciles Ford or GM would have to sell in order to make a $20,000 profit? Makes you wonder how they didn't find themselves in this situation sooner.

Oh and I almost forgot the CEO of FORD, Mullaly, got out of his jet and drove of in his Lexus LS 430!:emb: Way to go with that Ford Pride. BWAHAHAHAA!!!

How embarrassing!!! And who didnt come in his own private jet? That would be Big 3 wrecker, UAW Pres. Ron Gettelfinger. Anyone care to blame the UAW for forcing the big 3 execs for fly privatly? I heard Pres. "Pull my finger" Gettelfinger rips a nasty one on a plane maybe thats why lol!

Oh and I almost forgot the CEO of FORD, Mullaly, got out of his jet and drove of in his Lexus LS 430!:emb: Way to go with that Ford Pride. BWAHAHAHAA!!!

Sure that wasn't a rental????

I mean.... I don't see why anyone would fly to DC to drive his own personal auto.... if you see what I mean.

I just hope that they can get things togather so they can build some cool cars with a high performance engine, rear wheel drive, and a 6 speed trans. Could be electric for all I care as long as it is fast.

Sure that wasn't a rental????

I mean.... I don't see why anyone would fly to DC to drive his own personal auto.... if you see what I mean.


when he got back perhaps? i heard mullaly does own a lexus.

So they went in their private jets to ask for money for their company, yet nobody seems to make that big of a deal on AIG execs who spent 86K on a hunting trip. If nobody was getting a bailout then sure don't give them anything. But the banks have gotten a bailout, even though they were approving loans to everyone that came in for one. When the airlines wanted a bailout not that many people were against it. If everyone else got money why can't they? Have they run their companies down hill, YES. But so have the executives of other top companies.
-Joel

instead of the banks upping the interest on all these houses, doubling and TRIPLING some peoples payments, just fucking agree to refianance them at the original rate that they signed for and were able to AFFORD!! I don't see what the problem with that is?!

I don't like the fact that there is even a need for any kind of loans (I don't call them bailouts because, well, they're really NOT) but if any one of (or all) of these companies fail the 2nd Great Depression is almost certain to follow within 2 years.

I just hope that none of those on this board that are truly opposed to these loans aren't seen here posting a few years from now saying "oops, I might've been a little off in my unbending vehemence against our tax dollars going to help these 3 iconic and HUGE corporations because the soup at that West Main Street bread line really sucks". :nono:

Of course if it really were get that bad, anyone who frequents a bread line/homeless shelter probably wouldn't have internet access or even a computer anyway so I guess that's a bit of a stetch LOL. ;)

when he got back perhaps? i heard mullaly does own a lexus.

If so.... that is sad :(

He should be driving a Lincoln. If I were him.... I would be driving one of these http://www.lincoln.com/mks/home.asp

If so.... that is sad :(

He should be driving a Lincoln. If I were him.... I would be driving one of these http://www.lincoln.com/mks/home.aspI agree.

On a related note, does everyone realize that NO U.S. presidential candidate in history (well, in the history that we've had cars that is and only among candidates that even owned vehicles of course) was ever seen driving anything but a domestic nameplate vehicle?
Only this year there was some controversy surrounding some of Mrs. McCain's vehicular choices but otherwise these guys have gone out of their way to be sure that the American public saw them driving in ONLY GM/Ford/Chrysler cars/trucks.

It's not just by coincidence either. :usa:

I believe the current financial crisis is workable without big bank bailouts, big3 bailouts, loans whatever you want to call them.
Look, if the banks go belly up, they will be bought out by stronger banks. Survival of the fittest. Some economists think we would actually be stronger economically on the other side of this.
Also, the same for the big3. They may have to merge. The may have to go bankrupt. doesn't mean they have to close their doors forever.
Another point is the role mainstream media plays in a situation like this. They're very powerful, and can sway public opinion with their words. As long as we wake up and hear how bleak it is, we as a whole do things differently. We spend less, which takes money out of retail. We sell off our stocks, which brings the market down. It's a vicious cycle.
I'm not at all for rewarding bad behavior, or bad business choices. No bank will lend money to a failing company. Just ain't gonna happen.
For me, as a small business person, to get a loan, I have to have impeccable credit, good cash flow, plenty of assets, etc. AND A BUSINESS MODEL THAT MAKES SENSE. The big3 haven't shown any of that.
CEOs need to take a massive pay cut. I know I'm the last to get paid in my biz, not the first.
ALL top execs need to take a massive pay cut.
The jet fleets need to be sold off. I can understand needing a jet, but not A FLEET OF 8.
Fact is, the gubment approved the 700 bil bailout, and it hasn't stopped the economy from further decline. It hasn't stopped the corporate excess by firms such as AIG. So why even give it to them? Let them die off, and be bought up by a stronger bank for pennies on the dollar.
Same with the mortages. Let the ones that can't afford theirs, either re-negotiate, or get foreclosed on. Then the banks will be left with homes worth a fraction of the mortgage value, and they will be forced to sell them at fair market, to more than likely stronger buyers.
This is the ONLY way for it to work out in the long run. We cannot keep people in homes with inflated value. We cannot pump 25 bil into the big3 when they'll burn through it in one quarter. Then where will they be? Back asking for more? They won't be profitable in 3 months. The economy won't turn around in 3 months. Just doesn't make sense. Sorry........
Rant/OFF........:bang:

I have to say that I don't see a problem with them choosing not to fly commercial, but I do think they could have gotten together and flown out in one plane. Everyone is making a big to-do about the jet thing but that isn't why they were there. There are many reasons for the heads of these very important CEO's to fly privately. And I like how one member of Congress asked them if they were willing to sell their planes on the spot and fly back commercial! What a first class circus act.
Yes things have gotten out of hand with the Big 3, I'm not going to argue that but there is too much at stake to worry about how they got to D.C.

instead of the banks upping the interest on all these houses, doubling and TRIPLING some peoples payments, just fucking agree to refianance them at the original rate that they signed for and were able to AFFORD!! I don't see what the problem with that is?!

Actually quite a few banks are dropping interest rates. I know of quite a few people who have gotten loan modifications to drop their interest rate to the floor rate of 2.8%.

What makes me laugh about this entire situation is that just about every major foreign auto company in the world has been subsidized by its government while going through hard times. Then I have to hear people going on about how come these companies are doing fine right now and the big 3 aren’t. Well there where times when the big three where doing phenomenal and the Japanese companies need subsidies to stay in the American market. Hey we have to do something about these prick CEO’s because the fact is they make way to much even when they are running a company into the ground. However we shouldn’t let an entire industry go down the drain because of them.

the 2nd Great Depression is almost certain to follow within 2 years.


How so?!?!?! explain this one to me...

So they went in their private jets to ask for money for their company, yet nobody seems to make that big of a deal on AIG execs who spent 86K on a hunting trip. If nobody was getting a bailout then sure don't give them anything. But the banks have gotten a bailout, even though they were approving loans to everyone that came in for one. When the airlines wanted a bailout not that many people were against it. If everyone else got money why can't they? Have they run their companies down hill, YES. But so have the executives of other top companies.
-Joel

Yes, we do know about the shithead CEO's and managers of AIG and several other companies pulling the same kind of stuff. Please have enough damn sense not to side with these moronic CEO's or make excuses for their actions.:eyes:

I think Lee Iaccoca needs to come back and show these morons how to run a car company. You need a real car guy to run the show, not some pencil pushing big headed retard that takes advice from other non motorheads. I don't know what market research analysts they all have working for them, but they totally don't get it. Some of the latest cars to prove my point- Chrysler pacifica, Dodge Nitro, the Aztek, the GTO was a decent car but it was not what we might have envisioned it to look like or wanted it to look like. They're supposedly coming out with the G8 sport truck, but we all know it would be better marketed as a new El Camino. Pontiac is stuck on this kick of the "G" cars, I hate it say this to yourself several times and you'll have to agree it sounds dumb G6 V6 GT.

Yes, we do know about the shithead CEO's and managers of AIG and several other companies pulling the same kind of stuff. Please have enough damn sense not to side with these moronic CEO's or make excuses for their actions.:eyes:

I have enough sense thank you very much, and im not making excuses for the CEOs running the companies into the ground. But if other execs have watched their companies go downhill are getting bailouts, why can't they? Im sure if all these companies that wanted bailouts had to go in front of a committee in wachington they would have flown in private jets as well. The CEOs should have asked the guys sitting in front of them how many own or drove to work in an American car.
-Joel

I have to say that I don't see a problem with them choosing not to fly commercial, but I do think they could have gotten together and flown out in one plane. Everyone is making a big to-do about the jet thing but that isn't why they were there. There are many reasons for the heads of these very important CEO's to fly privately. And I like how one member of Congress asked them if they were willing to sell their planes on the spot and fly back commercial! What a first class circus act.
Yes things have gotten out of hand with the Big 3, I'm not going to argue that but there is too much at stake to worry about how they got to D.C.

I agree.... frankly when you are in the these guys shoes.... I doubt they every even thought, "Maybe I should fly commercial rather than using the company jet."

Now... with that said... maybe they should have thought about it... but you know they didn't.

You know they have a PR guy that should have suggested it to them if he was doing his job. At least put on the facade that you're trying to pinch pennies, especially when you're supposed to be on your hands and knees begging for money. I have a sister in law who has Downs syndrome so she's mentally handicapped. These guys are just downright retarded. The CEO's are so disassociated from the regular Joe(and please no more plumber jokes).

I think that anyone that does not want to help the American auto industry right now may be wrong on this issue.

If not helped right now the American auto industry will have substantially more major problems and might be a thing of the past if not helped. If they go bankrupt, who would buy a car from a bankrupt company and risk not having a warranty?



Nobody!


They would die, and if they do, how many other American companies are tied to the auto industry?

A shit load, so many that you would not even think of as an auto supplier, but many American business supply components or services of some percentage to the Auto industry in some way.


If the American auto industry fails, the economy would crash further down than it is right now, and I think this would have a tremendously negative effect on every Americans personal cash flow.

Due to the fact that the credit markets have crashed, many name brand companies are not able to get the cash they need to operate through the normal methods, you are seeing not only the auto makers have problems, but companies like GE, American Express, Starbucks, Circuit City, and many many others that have been great companies over the last several years. Everyday there is a new company on the rocks due to the tough economy and tough credit markets.

There are thousands or people that work in the auto industry, and maybe hundreds of thousands when we look at all of the suppliers related to the auto industry in some form. When all of these people are out of work and on unemployment, how will this affect all of us?


Yes the American Auto industry needs to change, but they also need some help with cash right now. Also maybe tax credits for anyone who is going to purchase a new auto that is built inside the US. A deal could be structured to help them with an agreement to reduce costs, and also a union concession so they can compete with the open market. Right now all foreign auto makers have a big advantage over the American auto maker just on union contracts alone. Would the union be better off to hold firm, not negotiate, let the companies fail and be out of work, or would they be better off to bend, and be flexible, and maybe have some sort of a bonus for workers tied to profits of the company, and keep working. Also make the CEO's pay be tied to profit.


If not helped, how many other companies will close due to so many people out of work and not spending any money. It will be a lot worse than it is right now, and that is for sure.


Every major city in our country is facing major budget problems and possible lay offs of government workers right now due to the fact that all business are slow and not spending money, not staying in hotels, pulling out of trade shows, and because of this the cities are not getting the tax revenue that they need to pay for the services they provide.


Yes, I think all government is bloated and should have major cost cuts, but the rippling effect of an economic slow downs reach is much farther than most people are aware of.


With all of this in motion right now, if we do not help in some way, and close down the American auto industry as we know it, and put all the workers that are tied to this industry either employed directly or indirectly by the big three on to unemployment, and have them all stop spending any money in to our economy, this will be a double whammy, and then we will see a real economic slow down. We will also see more home owners unable to pay for the homes they live in, real estate values drop further, and anyone with a home equiety loan will have the load called in due to the drop in their home's value, and if unable to pay the loan off in one lump, even more people forced out of their homes.

I think that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg right now if we let this happen. We send a ton of money out of our country right now by importing oil, and when we will only be buying imported automobiles, we will be sending more money out of our country, and letting more foreign country’s purchase our real estate with the profits the make on our hard earned dollar. Not good in the long term.

This will not be pretty, and will reach much farther than the rust belt states. We all know that the economy is not going good right now, companies can not pay their bills to each other, and banks are afraid to lend any money to anyone, now when the American auto industry dies because we did nothing, let the bottom fall out of today’s tough economy, and let’s see where we fall.

:confused:Just my thoughts, Jim.

We need to fix the problems that are preventing Americans from getting credit. And we need to put the blame where the blame needs to be: Clinton with his fair housing bill (and anyone in Congress that voted for it, especially Barney Frank), those in charge of Freddie/Sallie, etc. We need to take steps to make sure these people are removed from politics and from being anywhere near the top of any company for the rest of their lives.

We need to fix the problems that are preventing Americans from getting credit.

Yea but make damn sure these people actually qualify because we can all see what just handing money out to everyone does. Fact is many people complaining they can't get a loan shouldn’t be allowed to get one and are still stuck in the past thinking they should qualify. Credit is earned and even then there are many limits the sooner people realize that the faster this country will get back on track

I can see how my last post could be misleading. I do not want to give money to the public to make them able to afford things. Obama is wrong when he says "spreading the wealth around is good for everyone" and I do not support income redistribution. I do not support people getting loans they can not afford. But I think there are problems that we need to fix that are preventing the RIGHT people that CAN afford the loans from getting them.

I want Bill Gates to give me a million dollars just as much as the next guy. Difference is I know I don't deserve it, nor am I going to try and force him to give it to me.

No problem dragonrage I figured you meant that but just felt like going into greater detail lol. I'm not for redistribution of wealth either but I do support social programs that make grants/loans available to new and small businesses that QUALIFY kinda of the way they were set up during the years right after WWII.

just got an update last night that GM is selling their private jets and setting some factories at IDLE for at least another week to save money.

I agree with most points made either way. I hate companies who are driven into the ground like Circuit City by their own CEO who just drained the company with his paycheck and "expenses" and then resigned. Kinda ironic that he used to work for Best Buy......... Maybe he was still getting a paycheck from them.

I think the CEO's need to cut their own pay and expenses FIRST, in order to show America THEY MEAN BUSINESS. Cutting their salary is a bigger impact than laying off xxxx amount of workers. I also think they need to restructure their company layout. I dont think their should be managers on top of managers on top of managers........ and so on.

On the other end, who will really lose if the big 3 go under............ The workers, thats who. The CEO's will take their payout and go on the search for another company to suck dry while the average factory worker will face hardships finding another job.

/end rant..... that is all

I have no problem with them flying privately to go listen to a bunch of people who helped cause this financial crisis IN THE FIRST PLACE! The unmitigated gall of Congress to chastise private industry. That get's me every time. When those who forced banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford it, like myself, accept the blame for there role in this whole mess, then I'll listen to them complain about private industry. When Congressmen subject themselves to the same laws that they want everyone else to follow, then you can lecture me about flying in a private jet.

I have no problem with them flying privately to go listen to a bunch of people who helped cause this financial crisis IN THE FIRST PLACE! The unmitigated gall of Congress to chastise private industry. That get's me every time. When those who forced banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford it, like myself, accept the blame for there role in this whole mess, then I'll listen to them complain about private industry. When Congressmen subject themselves to the same laws that they want everyone else to follow, then you can lecture me about flying in a private jet.

Well said.

To be completely honest, I'm glad GM and the other American automakers are going under. They've had way too long to get their shit together but they were too comfortable where they were. Just like the other coorporate CEO assholes. I HATE the fact that so many people will lose jobs. Maybe the executives should just be fined, fired, and replaced. It'd be nice if the employees kept their jobs.

To be completely honest, I'm glad GM and the other American automakers are going under. They've had way too long to get their shit together but they were too comfortable where they were. Just like the other coorporate CEO assholes. I HATE the fact that so many people will lose jobs. Maybe the executives should just be fined, fired, and replaced. It'd be nice if the employees kept their jobs.

You understand that the big 3 going under will put 1 out of 10 people in this country out of work right?

You understand that the big 3 going under will put 1 out of 10 people in this country out of work right?

Agreed. People don't realize how many industries would be effected by the big 3 going down. It's not just the 2.5 million people that would potentially lose their jobs, but the dealerships and auto parts stores, even NASCAR would be effected.

Fortunately, they probably won't go down but be gobbled up by the foreign automakers.

From a business standpoint, they probably should file bankruptcy rather than accept some of the terms that I read Congress is offering them for help. They could use the bankruptcy courts to force out the unions or at least bring the unions down a notch to brings costs down. Or even move operations overseas.

[QUOTE=BTTM;10536325]Agreed. People don't realize how many industries would be affected by the big 3 going down. It's not just the 2.5 million people that would potentially lose their jobs, but the dealerships and auto parts stores, even NASCAR would be effected.
QUOTE]

And the Restraunt across the streets from the OEMs and the suppliers, and the clothing store where the workers shop at...........etc, etc, compounding the job loss until were crippled.

Yeh, let them go under and replace the 2-3 million American jobs with the 10% of that the Foreign OEMs have here!

To be completely honest, I'm glad GM and the other American automakers are going under.When I read shit like you just wrote I almost get the impression you'd also be happy to see a U.S. military base get bombed or even another terrorist attack on American soil.
One thing may have little to do with the other but that's about how friggin extreme, anti American and plain old stupid that a statement like that comes off as. :eyes:

.... It's a statement of ignorance... NO ONE SHOULD WANT TO GM, FORD, CHRYSLER GO UNDER!!!!

GM DOES make products equal to or better than anything made by that toy company.

All car companies have products that are crap, GM included. But very few of them don't have at least one or two good ones.

Even if you're one of those idiots that thinks anything other than Honda or Toyota sucks, you should still want the competition. Competition is what brings lower prices.

I hope that we as Americans do find a way to get our country and American businesses to get back on top and running again. If this economy keeps going down, all of us will feel the pain and have to adjust our life more than we have over the past year or so. I myself like to have the extra money and time to play with the toys in my garage. Every action will have an equial and oppisite reaction. I am in the transportation business and we have been in a down turn for the last 2 years. I do not see it getting any better, but getting worse. Where do we go from here. Jim.

Even if you're one of those idiots that thinks anything other than Honda or Toyota sucks, you should still want the competition. Competition is what brings lower prices.EXCELLENT point.
Anyone want to take a guess at what happens to current Toyota and Honda prices (AND QUALITY) if or when GM/Ford/Chrysler go under?

Yup you guessed it, $45k Camrys and Accords built in Taiwan and Mexico...no need to build (some of) them in the U.S. anymore and pay the higher labor rates when there is no one else out there to point fingers at them.
When you're suddenly the only game in town you can do whatever you please. :nono:

You understand that the big 3 going under will put 1 out of 10 people in this country out of work right?

You did read the part where I said I hate the fact that so many people will lose jobs, right? There is actually no short-term solution to this economic crisis. The bailout for the money-grubbers..I mean lenders will only be a small assistance to the problem. It's amazing to me how the "intelligent" people in charge of this country have allowed this to happen. Notice how the gas prices have just conveniently dropped all of a sudden. The prices were hiked for no reason and American oil companies should have been drilling in the many reserves they own. Simply put, the oil companies influence the government so much by lobbying senators they only hurt the economy. The reason I don't feel bad for GM is because I don't see how they didn't see this coming. It's certainly true that they can't make people buy their vehicles, but they can do something to make people WANT to buy their vehicles. That's where they fell short. They were too confident for too long. They said said no one would buy the Toyota Prius...wrong. Too much focusing on SUV's and trucks hurt GM in the long run. They saw for themselves what foreign automakers were selling. They saw for themselves what consumers purchased. They refused to get on board. I don't get it. Once again, I hate the fact that so many people will lose jobs and it's not they'll be able to find any work comparable to what they had. But, that's capitalism and big business for you and sometimes it just sucks.

When I read shit like you just wrote I almost get the impression you'd also be happy to see a U.S. military base get bombed or even another terrorist attack on American soil.
One thing may have little to do with the other but that's about how friggin extreme, anti American and plain old stupid that a statement like that comes off as. :eyes:

I can't change your views. I believe capitalism is the best form of government out there, but there has to be a time when the nation opens it's eyes to see that some things in this country don't work. Capitalism has it's flaws too, hopefully they will be fixed. Capitalism encourages greed in a lot of big businesses. America will bounce back. This nation is one of the youngest yet most powerful, it can be made even better while keeping MOST people happy. I'm far from being an extremist and I hope all terrorist burn in hell. Leave assumptions to people who can make intelligent ones.

.... It's a statement of ignorance... NO ONE SHOULD WANT TO GM, FORD, CHRYSLER GO UNDER!!!!

GM DOES make products equal to or better than anything made by that toy company.

They do make quality products. There is no question about that. They've been going down hill for a while. Once again, the employees don't deserve this..but what can be done now? Shit happens...regardless of the scale, and it sucks.

I believe the current financial crisis is workable without big bank bailouts, big3 bailouts, loans whatever you want to call them.
Look, if the banks go belly up, they will be bought out by stronger banks. Survival of the fittest. Some economists think we would actually be stronger economically on the other side of this.
Also, the same for the big3. They may have to merge. The may have to go bankrupt. doesn't mean they have to close their doors forever.
Another point is the role mainstream media plays in a situation like this. They're very powerful, and can sway public opinion with their words. As long as we wake up and hear how bleak it is, we as a whole do things differently. We spend less, which takes money out of retail. We sell off our stocks, which brings the market down. It's a vicious cycle.
I'm not at all for rewarding bad behavior, or bad business choices. No bank will lend money to a failing company. Just ain't gonna happen.
For me, as a small business person, to get a loan, I have to have impeccable credit, good cash flow, plenty of assets, etc. AND A BUSINESS MODEL THAT MAKES SENSE. The big3 haven't shown any of that.
CEOs need to take a massive pay cut. I know I'm the last to get paid in my biz, not the first.
ALL top execs need to take a massive pay cut.
The jet fleets need to be sold off. I can understand needing a jet, but not A FLEET OF 8.
Fact is, the gubment approved the 700 bil bailout, and it hasn't stopped the economy from further decline. It hasn't stopped the corporate excess by firms such as AIG. So why even give it to them? Let them die off, and be bought up by a stronger bank for pennies on the dollar.
Same with the mortages. Let the ones that can't afford theirs, either re-negotiate, or get foreclosed on. Then the banks will be left with homes worth a fraction of the mortgage value, and they will be forced to sell them at fair market, to more than likely stronger buyers.
This is the ONLY way for it to work out in the long run. We cannot keep people in homes with inflated value. We cannot pump 25 bil into the big3 when they'll burn through it in one quarter. Then where will they be? Back asking for more? They won't be profitable in 3 months. The economy won't turn around in 3 months. Just doesn't make sense. Sorry........
Rant/OFF........:bang:

Well said. Only the strong survive in capitalism...that's the way it's always been, and I don't necessarily agree with that.

Only the strong survive in capitalism...Historically speaking, you're absolutely correct.
But these are WAY different times.
If GM and/or Ford go under (they likely won't), even the strong will likely find it quite difficult to survive as well.
Capitalism itself could also ultimately fails someday. :nono:
There is no easy answer/quick fix here but the demise/destruction of our historic and iconic American auto industry is NOT going to produce positive results for anyone (in the U.S. and even abroad) other than the likes of Toyota/Honda/BMW etc.
I hope those companies have lots and lots of jobs lined up for all of you.

I was watching ABC news this morning and saw a piece on the Big 3 automakers and their begging for $25 billion in TAX PAYERS MONEY. These asswipes CEO's have the gall to show up in their private jets to grovel for assistance to keep their companies up and running. The reporter went up to the CEO's of GM and Ford and asked them about this, of course the slime balls try and evade his questioning. Following that the reporter states how the private jet flights from Detroit to Washington D.C. cost them approximately $20,000 each compared to the $800 it would have cost them to fly first class round trip. I wonder how many vehiciles Ford or GM would have to sell in order to make a $20,000 profit? Makes you wonder how they didn't find themselves in this situation sooner.

It's visually the same thing as pulling up to a homeless shelter, which is serving a free lunch to the REAL needy and less fortunate, in a stretch hummer limo, having the driver open the door for you, enter with the thousand's of dollar's attire on, and say "i'm homeless and hungry." At least LOOK broke if you are going to beg for money and free hand out's!

Historically speaking, you're absolutely correct.
But these are WAY different times.
If GM and/or Ford go under (they likely won't), even the strong will likely find it quite difficult to survive as well.
Capitalism itself could also ultimately fails someday. :nono:
There is no easy answer/quick fix here but the demise/destruction of our historic and iconic American auto industry is NOT going to produce positive results for anyone (in the U.S. and even abroad) other than the likes of Toyota/Honda/BMW etc.
I hope those companies have lots and lots of jobs lined up for all of you.

Historically speaking. Those are the key words. I just believe some changes need to be made so things like this don't happen in the future. After all, it would only be selfish for me to care what happens to this country/world during my lifetime. In the end, everyone can learn from a situation like this I suppose.