Automotive News, Media & Press - GM may shed Pontiac, Saturn, and/or Saab to get bail-out money

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amIqBBYGRh5Q&refer=worldwide

I can't believe it. I like the Saab cars, Pontiac is an American staple, and Saturn is finally getting some decent cars.

Way to go GM...Way to go.

Seriously, that's the idea they have? That's all they can come up with? I think there needs to be a serious shake up in terms of the top brass at GM.

Pontiac means nothing to me anymore if theres no Firebird or similiar. Everything they've given us has not been as captivating as the Firebird. Yes the quality is up, but its come in the form of a niche roadster and reused australian pieces everything else is crap and/or borrowed from another platform. If they can't do better lets focus on chevy. Thats what the camaro is telling us people.

Saab eh born from jets killed by ugliness. They've always have been an odd ball and I've never liked them.

Saturns dent proof, but not economy proof. They've gone too upmarket. Just roll their affordability and no haggle pricing into an entry level chevy car and get rid of the rest.

Why aren't they mentioning GMC getting the axe. They are the most guilty of rebadging.

This is all my opinion. For GM to survive it must have more focus and thats why I think they are talking about killing off some brands. With all of the brands I think they are spreading sales across their brands and keeping the dealer network happy. Take a step back continue improving chevy and Cadillac and rebuild the base through this transitional period. There will be a set back and job losses, but just think about making the product better and grow naturally not spam the board with rebadge specials.

I hope it all works out for this company and this country in the long run. I've only driven and bought AMERICAN and will continue.

finally GM is doing the right economic decision. Saab and Saturn should have been dropped a long time ago!! Pontiac has been continuing the line of grand prix and grand ams, didn't make enough sales w/ GTOs, blah...so I understand their decision. Rick Wagoner ( HAVE FAITH)

I have never like Saturn but they do have a following with people that want a better value with more fuel mileage (and ugly cars).

GMC should be getting shit canned before Saab and Saturn. Only GM would leave a division of useless rebadged SUVs and trucks and then kill off Saab which actually has a couple of decent cars in its line-up.

GM needs more cars and less trucks/SUVs. That has been my major complaint about GM for over 8 years standing.

3 billion was invested in Saturn to remake it and it's sales are the lowest they have ever been. The other brands are no better off.

Believe it or not, these brands are all lost causes.

3 billion was invested in Saturn to remake it and it's sales are the lowest they have ever been. The other brands are no better off.

Believe it or not, these brands are all lost causes.Lost causes?
Well then I guess we should all just throw in the towel and give up then, it's all over I take it?

Based on that ultra negative and completely dismal outlook I guess I really should order an '09 (or '10) Corvette to put away for future use so I'll always have a fresh one on hand because, according to your statements, only GM is hurting yet all other carmakers are doing very well right now.

This shit comes around every couple of months. I think Hummer was the last division to really get run through the rumor mill for the one that is going to be shut down, yet I keep see GM ads pimping the new H3 and last I checked Hummer is still around. If Hummer can survive these guys can survive.

Right now given the econ no one is buying cars, so of course sales are down these brands.

GM is officially and actively trying to sell Hummer, there's no rumor there. I don't think they will can Pontiac, but like that whole company, it needs major restructuring. For instance, why the hell does GM's "performance" division need an Aveo-based car, the G3? The G5 XFE gets better mileage than the G3 (37 mpg compared to 34 mpg). The G8 and Solstice are the only Pontiacs with performance potential now, and neither are selling well.

Lost causes?
Well then I guess we should all just throw in the towel and give up then, it's all over I take it?

Based on that ultra negative and completely dismal outlook I guess I really should order an '09 (or '10) Corvette to put away for future use so I'll always have a fresh one on hand because, according to your statements, only GM is hurting yet all other carmakers are doing very well right now.

Only GM (along with the other two) are in front of our government begging for your money to cover their asses.

GM is officially and actively trying to sell Hummer, there's no rumor there. I don't think they will can Pontiac, but like that whole company, it needs major restructuring. For instance, why the hell does GM's "performance" division need an Aveo-based car, the G3? The G5 XFE gets better mileage than the G3 (37 mpg compared to 34 mpg). The G8 and Solstice are the only Pontiacs with performance potential now, and neither are selling well.

GM can't sell it's own brands like Pontiac, they would simply stop making them like Oldsmobile.

The issue with these brands is that none of them actually sell or really turn a profit.

Pontiac got substantial investment in new product the past couple of years only for all of them to fail miserably. The G8 is the latest Pontiac that nobody wants. The G6 is GM's rental queen and they have to give it away to get people to buy them. The Solstice was an expensive little car that doesn't make any money and didn't sell well after the initial run on them. The brand is synonymous not with performance, but rental cars with ugly grilles. The Holdens were nice but killed by and wasted on the brand. It's sales are no so hot and a substantial amount of them go to fleets.

Saturn recieved over three billion dollars invested in an entirely new product line and image. Sound familiar? Just like Oldsmobile did. Just like Oldsmobile people really aren't too fond of the brand name and those who were suddenly found that the very cheap and cheerful little cars they liked are no longer available. The ION was replaced with the imported Astra for instance, which costs substantially more. Saturn sales are the lowest they have ever been.

Saab has always been money wasting cause. Why GM bought it I'll never know. Prior to GM's full ownership the brand's highest sales were in the 90s and have dropped ever since. It hardly moves any cars and it requires constant investment from the mothership. It's been nothing but a drain on GM.

Buick and GMC also have to go, and I would almost put money on that happening eventually as well. Buick is GM's Mercury or Lincoln, it's not taken seriously by anyone other than it's shrinking base of retirees. GMC is an all rebadged truck brand, something Chevrolet already has covered better and cutting another all-truck brand would look good for Congress and on the balance sheets.

You guys and your Buick stuff, You forget GM sells cars overseas! Infact that is almost 50% of their sales. China is going to surpass America in demand for cars in the next 3 to 5 years, maybe sooner now.
The top selling import in China is BUICK! GM was the first import car company to sell over 1,000,000 units in China. Most of those BUICK. What makes money for GM in China?
BUICK. That is why Buick stays.
Pontiac and Saturn will go away. They won't sell because they don't want to have to give up some of the desgins that go with the name, like the LSX, Ecotec and 3.6 engines.

There's no reason Buick cannot be phased out here and continue to be sold in China.

But the China bubble has burst along with the global downturn, and last I knew Buick is not the number one brand in China anymore.

There's no reason Buick cannot be phased out here and continue to be sold in China.

But the China bubble has burst along with the global downturn, and last I knew Buick is not the number one brand in China anymore.

Import brand.

Import brand.

Last I read it was Volkswagen.

epic fail gm wake up

Should have done this a long time ago!!! Why is Buick not getting the AXE? I know it sells in the PRC...keep it there. But...

Chevy and Caddy are all GM needs right now (for cars).

W

Last I read it was Volkswagen.

You are right VW is it 08.

Heres my take:

Keep Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick for overseas
Streamline the product lineup and focus on having the best in each segment similarly to the imports. Ie Best small car, midsize, crossover, suv and pickup. Offer them with different trim levels and engine options ie. 4, 6, hybrid and performance.
Stop competing with there own offerings and work on building model recognition. There is no need to have the Enclave, Acadia, Transverse, Outlook. (all the same suv).

GM can't sell it's own brands like Pontiac, they would simply stop making them like Oldsmobile.

The issue with these brands is that none of them actually sell or really turn a profit.

Pontiac got substantial investment in new product the past couple of years only for all of them to fail miserably. The G8 is the latest Pontiac that nobody wants. The G6 is GM's rental queen and they have to give it away to get people to buy them. The Solstice was an expensive little car that doesn't make any money and didn't sell well after the initial run on them. The brand is synonymous not with performance, but rental cars with ugly grilles. The Holdens were nice but killed by and wasted on the brand. It's sales are no so hot and a substantial amount of them go to fleets.

Saturn recieved over three billion dollars invested in an entirely new product line and image. Sound familiar? Just like Oldsmobile did. Just like Oldsmobile people really aren't too fond of the brand name and those who were suddenly found that the very cheap and cheerful little cars they liked are no longer available. The ION was replaced with the imported Astra for instance, which costs substantially more. Saturn sales are the lowest they have ever been.

Saab has always been money wasting cause. Why GM bought it I'll never know. Prior to GM's full ownership the brand's highest sales were in the 90s and have dropped ever since. It hardly moves any cars and it requires constant investment from the mothership. It's been nothing but a drain on GM.

Buick and GMC also have to go, and I would almost put money on that happening eventually as well. Buick is GM's Mercury or Lincoln, it's not taken seriously by anyone other than it's shrinking base of retirees. GMC is an all rebadged truck brand, something Chevrolet already has covered better and cutting another all-truck brand would look good for Congress and on the balance sheets.

No argument there. The only Buick model worth saving is the Enclave, and it could easily be re-badged a Cadillac. Since the SRX is getting downsized for its next generation, the Enclave could easily be adopted by Caddy.

I agree selling off Saab and Saturn however, Pontiac needs to stay.

I went to a Saturn dealer ship today and it was a miserable sight. There were no potential customers looking around on the lot. Sadly, the vehicle service department was packed full of cars that needed some sort of of warranty work. Saturn = More expensive identical rebadge Chevys and Pontiacs that dont sell. Saturn was a 3 billion dollar mistake.

Saab has some very exciting and advanced technology that Cadillac and Buick could use. Ex. XWD and their turbo motors. Strip Saab and give to Buick and Caddy.

GM needs to turn Pontiac into a Scion division. Attract the youth with very modern designed vehicels thats very competitively priced. Pontiac needs to look like the Britany Spears. Sexy, young, cheap(affordable), and full of drama. It will sell.

This is what GM should look like:

Chevy = Toyota, Nissan, Honda
Caddy = MB, BMW, Lexus
Pontiac = Scion
GMC = ??? maybe commercial only
Hummer = Land Rover, Jeep
Buick = Infinite, Acura

Hope there will be a G8 with Chevy badges!!!

W

Here's how I would structure things:

Chevy = Standard + Performance cars (no trucks)
Cadillac = Luxury
GMC = Trucks & SUV's

Pontiac has an Identity crisis..I say dump it..They don't put much effort in designing anything. They pretty much just bring over the Aussiemobiles

I think that the Pontiac line of cars are much better looking than what Chevrolet has to offer, and the G8 is one of the few new cars that i would be interested in buying.

the way i see it...they definlty need to shed Buick, saturn, and saab. they should kill off the civilian market for the hummers and only make the ones specific for military contracts; do that only if you can still turn a profit, if not sell it.

chevy and cadillac in my opinon need o stay. gmc should just make the work trucks, work van etc. pontiac is a tough call. its not the best, but its not the worse. but i really dont see any potential for the brand right now :(

Here's how I would structure things:

Chevy = Standard + Performance cars (no trucks)
Cadillac = Luxury
GMC = Trucks & SUV's

Couldn't agree more

Hope there will be a G8 with Chevy badges!!!

W

thats an easy one

http://themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/lumina-ss-themotorreport.bmp

Call the Chevy V8 a Chevelle.

W

thats an easy one

http://themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/lumina-ss-themotorreport.bmpVery nice.
I love the G8 line and I do hope they bring it over to Chevrolet in the event that Pontiac is removed from the roster.
It could be a perfect marriage...the base G8 (V6 or V8) could be the Impala, the G8 GXP could become the Impala SS and the Ute/pickup model could be the El Camino. :nod:





Call the Chevy V8 a Chevelle.That could work as well. :nod:

For instance, why the hell does GM's "performance" division need an Aveo-based car, the G3?

I don't see Pontiac as a performance division any longer.

GM's top performing cars are the Corvette, Camaro, and some Cadillac models. The V8 G8 model comes in behind all those.

When people think "GM performance", they think Corvette.

Here's how I would structure things:

Chevy = Standard + Performance cars (no trucks)
Cadillac = Luxury
GMC = Trucks & SUV's

I like this line-up.

I've been a supporter of dropping GMC, but it might be a good idea to keep it on as the truck brand. However, I'd guess that Chevy (and the Silverado nameplate) has more customer loyalty than GMC. GM would need to investigate this option more in-depth.

As for cars though, all GM needs is Chevy and Cadillac for domestic sales.

The whole problem with Saturn is that it was originally intended as an import fighter....well the imports have moved up-market into Chevrolet/Pontiac territory, and Saturn has no business up there....but GM tried to squeeze a third brand in nonetheless!

Here's how I would do it....

Pontiac-Scion looks, Kia prices.

Chevrolet-move slightly downmarket, price-wise

Buick- re-form as a vogue brand, heavy on the style, but still luxurious enough for the market-area it is in.

Cadillac-Move upmarket towards MB and Maybach territory.

Kill Hummer, Saab, Saturn and GMC. Just turn the GMC dealers into "Chevy Trucks" dealers. Problem solved.

And yes, I also agree those aussie cars need to be Chevrolets....

I agree selling off Saab and Saturn however, Pontiac needs to stay.

I went to a Saturn dealer ship today and it was a miserable sight. There were no potential customers looking around on the lot. Sadly, the vehicle service department was packed full of cars that needed some sort of of warranty work. Saturn = More expensive identical rebadge Chevys and Pontiacs that dont sell. Saturn was a 3 billion dollar mistake.

Saab has some very exciting and advanced technology that Cadillac and Buick could use. Ex. XWD and their turbo motors. Strip Saab and give to Buick and Caddy.

GM needs to turn Pontiac into a Scion division. Attract the youth with very modern designed vehicels thats very competitively priced. Pontiac needs to look like the Britany Spears. Sexy, young, cheap(affordable), and full of drama. It will sell.

This is what GM should look like:

Chevy = Toyota, Nissan, Honda
Caddy = MB, BMW, Lexus
Pontiac = Scion
GMC = ??? maybe commercial only
Hummer = Land Rover, Jeep
Buick = Infinite, Acura

Hummer=GONE
Buick=GONE(Or overseas only)

Here's how I would structure things:

Chevy = Standard + Performance cars (no trucks)
Cadillac = Luxury
GMC = Trucks & SUV's

Believe me when I say the Chevy Silverado isn't going anywhere.

GMC needs to get the ax.

Here's how I would structure things:

Chevy = Standard + Performance cars (no trucks)
Cadillac = Luxury
GMC = Trucks & SUV's

i agree. i've always liked the GMC trucks better than the Chevy's anyway. they can't drop Caddy, and obviously Chevy cars are the foundation which GM stands on...everything else is dead weight that appeals to a very specific group of people and is costing them money.

guess ile be buying a ford next :supergay:

guess ile be buying a ford next :supergay:

Speaking of which, Ford needs to either "restart" Mercury or kill it off already. I think it would do well if Mercury received all those sweet cars from Europe we don't get. Just think, the Focus RS, Mondeo, SportKA, Fiesta, and to top it off, bring us a new Cougar/Capri based on the Mustang, and make one of those RWD large sedans from their Aussie division as the flagship. This would be easy.

I also want to see Lincoln pushed back upmarket towards BMW/MB range.

I don't see Ford doing those things anytime soon.

W

I don't see Pontiac as a performance division any longer.

GM's top performing cars are the Corvette, Camaro, and some Cadillac models. The V8 G8 model comes in behind all those.

When people think "GM performance", they think Corvette.

Most people don't anymore, hence the quotations denoting irony in the phrase ;)

GMC is toast. It's a completely redundant brand. Chevrolet already sells a higher volume of trucks and other manufacturers already use their main brands, Ford and Toyota, to sell all sorts of trucks. The political and economic climate is also not friendly for a an all-truck, all-gas guzzler brand. Especially when your company is begging for billions of dollars from the government.

Here's the bottom line.

GM needs to be structured to make money. It hasn't been for a very long time. That doesn't mean "fit" or "redefine" or "keep" all it's brands. GM is a business and they must stay in business. We already know the branding ladder is hugely outdated and no longer a viable business model. It's been obvious for years.

What that means is you identify your core business and strongest brands, which is Chevrolet and Cadillac, and you eliminate everything else. There is nothing any other GM brand does that the two main brands don't already do or couldn't do better. You eliminate the other brands because they directly overlap with, cannabalize and divert valuable resources (money and manpower) from your core business. The core business must be the best it can be and adequately supported for the company to make money.

It hasn't been. This has been a big GM problem for at least the past decade and longer actually. I've warned for years online that it's got to change or the market will eventually make GM change it.

Sadly, it looks like GM has to be made to do it or face extinction.

i personally think that the sky is an awsome car specially the turbo, way better than solctive, the aura is a millin times more refined than an altima, looks better, the new hatch they have is awsome, the solution is not making competition within the same company..... cobalt=g6, solctice=sky, etc, again its only a name,

Gm needs to go bacnkrupt so they can get renegotiated their labor to be competitive in the market. nothing is going to save them unless they make more of a return on the cars they sell, also they are playing in real hot territory haveing those korean cars Daewoo rebadge as chevys, they should just do it for south america and other 3rd world countries.i would never buy that aveo, another rebadge is those suzukis like the reno and the 4 door one, its sold in south america as a chevy.......only car i see in that are having a future is the cobalt, because iof its solid body and good engines....but those korean cars are just scary.......


this is Ecuador where im from originally look at the damn markups, oh and i was informed that they killed the reno over there and its cousin a year ago or so over there, think suv are expensive here, check these, gas over there is like .99 cents

http://www.chevrolet.com.ec/vehiculos/modelos-precios/modelos-lista.html#2


i just sold my trailblazer for less than 10 grand and its was an 05 i should of taken it to ecuador and got sticker price

So there goes the "excitement" brand. Thanks GM.

Holden exports facing stop sign

Philip King | November 29, 2008

HOLDEN'S export program to the US will hang in the balance next week as General Motors considers ditching the Pontiac brand and 11,000 unsold export Commodores gather dust.

Adelaide-built Commodores are shipped to the US as Pontiac G8s, but GM is reviewing prospects for three of its eight divisions, with Pontiac top of the list, in a desperate bid to cut costs and secure $US50 billion ($76 billion) in federal funds.

The plan, which must be ready for US legislators by next weekend, leaves a question mark over the future of Pontiac, Saab and Saturn, according to Bloomberg reports, while Hummer is already up for sale.

The Holden-built Pontiac G8 is part of the problem, as it is struggling to find buyers.

Just 13,000 have been bought since shipments began at the beginning of the year, and inventory levels exceed 11,000 cars -- or 283 days' supply -- the third-worst for any GM model, according to specialist US website Automotive News.

Potential Pontiac G8 buyers must now factor in an uncertain future for the brand.

"It's a challenging business environment for carmakers around the world," said a spokesman for GM Holden, Jonathan Rose. "We're very proud of our export program."

He denied Holden was adding to Pontiac's woes, and said export shipments were continuing. Mr Rose played down reports yesterday that Holden is planning to build a four-cylinder car alongside the Commodore.

"We're looking at many options," he said.

"But we don't have any announcement to make."

The 82-year-old Pontiac division is one of GM's oldest, but its "affordable performance" models peaked in the 1970s.

The Holden Monaro built here until three years ago was used to revive the famous Pontiac GTO nameplate, and 32,000 were sold stateside between 2003 and 2005.

But Pontiac's 1000 US dealers have been hit hard by the collapse of the car market, with sales down 21 per cent this year.

Despite this, Holden is adding a high-performance G8 version to the line-up, and the Commodore Ute, rebadged as the Pontiac G8 Sports Truck, will be exported late next year.

Holden desperately needs fresh overseas markets to keep its Adelaide factory running, with Commodore sales down 16per cent this year.

The company expected US demand for Pontiac G8s to boost exports, but recently announced plans to shut its factory for 25 days in the first quarter next year, in addition to its four-week Christmas holiday closure.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24723356-13232,00.html

cobalt=g6Cobalt is cousin to the G5 actually, but I knew what you'd meant. :)





only car i see in that are having a future is the cobalt, because iof its solid body and good enginesI agree. And even better, the already very decent Cobalt will eventually be replaced by the Cruze which will be an all new and hopefully even better small sports coupe/sedan replacement. :thumb: :nod:

I think a big part of the G8 not selling is the styling. The front is ugly, in a 2000 Grand Am sort of way. Rest looks like any other car on the road. I think the Charger/300c are much better looking. Not to mention the V6 G8 gets bad gas mileage compared to an Avalon, Camry, Maxima, and is a lot worse than a Camry/Accord with a 4 banger.

Pontiac just hasn't been the same since the demise of the Trans Am/Firebird. Only interesting products have been ugly rebadges of some Holdens.

I think a big part of the G8 not selling is the styling.

Everything else Pontiac carries also doesn't sell. Not even the G5 when fuel prices were $4 per gallon. The G6 is Pontiac's volume and nearly half of them go to fleets instead of consumers.

That tells you something about the brand overall - it's dead.

Everything else Pontiac carries also doesn't sell. Not even the G5 when fuel prices were $4 per gallon. The G6 is Pontiac's volume and nearly half of them go to fleets instead of consumers.

That tells you something about the brand overall - it's dead.

IMO they let them die out like this. If the G6 is only going to fleet sales, than something will have to step in and take its place in the future and it will more than likely be something from the Chevy line.

As much as I hate to say it, just kill Pontiac. The "driving excitement" was killed a long time ago when all they did was take the drivetrain to other cars. There is nothing unique about the car anymore. It looks like Cadillac has taken over in this department anyways. They don't even try to put any thought behind the cars anymore in the Pontiac line. If they kept it all RWD or made it something unique it would have worked. IIRC the original G8 they designed back in the late 90's was suppose to be AWD with a blown V6 pushing 300hp and it got the axe and was just a pipe dream.

The other thing I don't understand is all of the Pontiacs looking similar. It doesn't seem like it is a big deal when Dodge, Chevy, BMW, Audi, Porsche do it, but when Pontiac carries over some signature designs everyone bitches, or maybe it is just me. :eyes:

When it all comes down to it, they don't advertise for crap. Only commercials I ever see for half the lineup of their cars are on their website, none ever on TV. I think someone even posted once that for the Firebird the only commercial that was used was the Hungry one, the other two were floating around on the website.

I believe if Pontiac had designed their own GTO with some better styling they may have sold as many as the Bandit cars in the 70's. But no,they take a short cut & bring over a redesigned Holden. Shit, I have been saying for 5 years now, If they had a Judge version of the GTO that looked & performed, they would have sold a ton of them..I say blame Lutz the putz, I think he single handedly brought down Pontiac.JMO

GM should kill ever brand except Chevy and Cadillac. Make Caddy their only upscale division and Chevy their everything else division. GMC has nothing specific so it needs to be killed. Buick is a useless division it needs to be killed. With those two dead no point in just having Pontiac since most dealers currently are GMC/Buick/Pontiac. Kill Saab no one buys those ugly cars. Kill Saturn. Take any models that sell and stick them under the Chevy name. GM for too long has been competing with itself, they need to trim down their lines and their dealer network.

They need to declare bankrutpcy to kill all of these brands though so they can break all their contracts with the dealers otherwise they will have to pay so much to close the dealerships they might as well go out of business.

I think the whole family face design idea needs to be shit canned. I hate the same face on every car a company sells. That damn Chevy grill/bar looks OK on the trucks and like crap on all of the cars. Brand identity will come from one simple place......... THE EMBLEM. Each car needs its own design.

I think the whole family face design idea needs to be shit canned. I hate the same face on every car a company sells. That damn Chevy grill/bar looks OK on the trucks and like crap on all of the cars. Brand identity will come from one simple place......... THE EMBLEM. Each car needs its own design.

:werd: I HATE that as well..... I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!

If Pontiac doesn't go away..... they seriously need to lose that grand am/ grand prix double grill that shows up on every model!!!!!!!

I think the whole family face design idea needs to be shit canned. I hate the same face on every car a company sells. That damn Chevy grill/bar looks OK on the trucks and like crap on all of the cars. Brand identity will come from one simple place......... THE EMBLEM. Each car needs its own design.

Thank you


Whats the point of buying a car that looks like all the rest, its pointless!

Uh just make the G8 a chevy and there ya go!


No need to axe the car, but it needs HSV body work or somthing to spice the car up



Pontiacs are so fucken plain, all they have are grills and hood scoops

THATS IT!

Its a joke what that brand is, they need to get cut off

Uh just make the G8 a chevy and there ya go!


No need to axe the car, but it needs HSV body work or somthing to spice the car up



Pontiacs are so fucken plain, all they have are grills and hood scoops

THATS IT!

Its a joke what that brand is, they need to get cut off

No, it needs to look like it's own car. Leave the HSV bodywork on Holden cars. Make it an Impala and make it LOOK like an Impala; not just like every other Chevy except the Corvette. Maybe that is one reason the Corvette sells so well, it doesn't have that family grill/bar crap in the front.

Maybe it's just me.... but I HATE grills on cars.

I prefer them as bottom breathers.... like the Firebird/Trans Am and Corvette..... even the Oldsmobile Aurora. They just look better without grills, IMO.

lol... remind me to never buy a vette!

I buy a TA, they stop making them, I buy GTP , they stop making the Grand Prix, now they may stop making Pontiac ... i'm cursed!

Eh, pontiac was almost axed once before, but were saved essentially by muscle cars and racing... there's nothing left to save pontiac this time.

call me crazy but hell, just start selling Holden or Vauxhall (whatever you want to call it) over here. Don't bother wasting money rebadging them.

lol... remind me to never buy a vette!

I buy a TA, they stop making them, I buy GTP , they stop making the Grand Prix, now they may stop making Pontiac ... i'm cursed!

Damn dude! Go buy a Hummer and Buick :punch:. LOL.

I don't mind grills on cars, but they need to reflect the styling of that particular car. The big crosshair looks stupid on the Dodge cars also. Works for the truck, sucks on everything else.

lol... remind me to never buy a vette!

I buy a TA, they stop making them, I buy GTP , they stop making the Grand Prix, now they may stop making Pontiac ... i'm cursed!

Duly noted :D