Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - little advice on a 454 swap

zup guys, I am looking to get an ls1 trans am,however even though i love the ls1,i would like to say that i have a 454 in my car?why you ask?,because as the old saying that has wistoood the test of time,there is no replacement for displacement(even if i can get the same power from a built Ls1) Originally im trying to decide wether to get an ls1 body shell(no engine or trans) and then buy a 454 and trans and swap that in,(or buy a running ls1,sell the drivetrain and then swap in the 454 and trans.

As far as the engine goes,It would be comming off a 1998 Gmc sierra 2500 crewcab, 7.4L,i believe the stock hp numbers are 290hp and 320lbs of torque? I was woundering if this 454 is even capable of making at leat 500hp to the wheels without big money into it.assuming i have the engine and tranny(what tranny should i get to match?want a 6 speed if possible) how much do you think i would spend on the engine to get to 500hp?also this will be a daily driver,so i would like to keep this engine as reliable as possible.

thanks and let me know,

IM A BBC MAN MYSELF I WOULD THROW A RAT IN THAT PUPPY IN NANOSEC! BUT W/AN LSX BLOCK "YOUU COULD" GET 500ci W/AN LS BLOCK AND COME OUT CHEAPER IN THE FAB DEPT.

I'm in the middle of doing a 427 swap right now and what ^^^^ said is pretty much dead on.

I've spent almost as much money to get the 427 in the car as I have on the 427 it's self. Thats not including trans or rear end. (keep in mind this is a SBC) a BBC is even more expensive.

Somethings to keep in mind about doing this swap: BBC or SBC swap and cheap don't go together. To make it look good you are going to spend cash and alot of it.

Personally I wanted to slap a 540 stroker in my car but decided against it after I looked at all the numbers. Plus I got a screamin deal on the 427.

With that being said, there is something to be said about a big block Camaro.

I wish you luck and if you have any question feel free to ask.

~Jim~

500rhp without a power adder is going to be expensive,especialy with that year engine.About all you can use from it is the block,and even it is completely different from the older 454's

The newer blocks arent as open to the aftermarket like the older Mark blocks.

just build an LSX 454 stroker. to do big block, you would need the t56 swap from a LT1 car since the ls1 parts will not interchange. then there is the motor mount issue,custom headers, clearancing for the distributer(which you will no longer be able to take out with the motor still in the car), oh and im pretty sure your radiator would need to change, and probably youralternator and power steering brackets and power steering pump(youd have to have the type II pump since its alotr smaller...had to do this on my 84 z28 454swap)...

if you bought a high mile or roller ls1 car, you could simply bolt in your lsx stroker and only worry about building your transmission and replacing your rearend. both of which you will need to do in addition to all the other things listed above with the big block swap...

I'm going through the very same dilemma . You can easily make 500 to the tire with a big block . You don't have to spend a lot of money to do it either . An ls1 t56 will bolt up with a different bellhousing and work just fine . I just can't make up my mind . The cost of a 500 ci lsx is pretty expensive . A pretty stout big block can be built for the same money . You'll just need to fab headers and deal with a few other items . I really want the big block but I want a six speed and it takes alot of money to build a t56 to handle a strong bbc .

Great points guys,what i was thinking of doing is ported heads,cam,and bolt ons(dont know how much hp that would get me,even if it was only about 400hp that would be fine and would probably be less expensive but achievable?As far as fabricating what exactly is it that i would have to fabricate and why would it be so expensive?im planning on doing most of the fab up work myself.This will be a daily driver and it will have all the interior except for back seats,back quarter inner panels and maybe even the door panels.I would be getting rid of all the ac components and relocating the battery.

Like v8pwr said,i really want a six speed because it will be a daily driver and wont be going to the track at all and thats another reason i would be willing to have like 380-450hp to the wheels,emphazis on reliability.As far as clearance,i will be fabing up a custom hood as well.

Regardless of what engine you select you are going to need a much stronger trans and rear. I'll give you some numbers for which to play with. 500 RWHP is roughly 600FWHP. Give or take what percentage you lose through the drive train. I'm figuring around 20%.

A nice 454 LSX will cost in the neighborhood of around 15K when done. Drop the engine in hook up the harness get the comp set up and get new fuel lines.

A BBC making 600FWHP is going to cost right around 8-9K for a cheaper one. a good one 700FWHP will be near 14K. Now throw on a new K-member A-arms while your at it, shocks, springs, Radiator, new fans, fuel system headers (either custom or the worked hookers) new steering rack, new gauges plus all the fab work and a new hood.

This should bring you to right around 15K or more. obviously these are all rough numbers but putting in a BBC requires you to change/ modify every system in the car.

Regardless of what you are going to put in the car LS or BBC, here are some rules to live by. Do it once do it right. You'll be kickin yourself if you have to pull a 454 because it blew a rod. I don't advise going halfway.

Run through some of the numbers and you'll figure it out. Like I said I'm doing this right now with a SBC and its adding up in a hurry I'm already 15K deep and I havent even made it to the trans and rear.

~Jim~

yea! what he said! plus the lsx block is capable of 2500 hp! just in case you step UP and really listen to him and do it right the 1st time!, then you can put some turbos on it later and not spend a grip upgrading for the turbos. because nothing can satisfy this insatiable adreinalin jones but horsepower! you will see!
stmfhyr"

well like I said,this will never go to the track and im not looking to go over 500hp,i just want a fast street daily driver,maybe not even 500hp,if it was 400 that would do.I just want to do all motor no juice or turbos etc.

Just get a LS1 and throw some nice heads and a large cam in it and call it a day.

4K at most and your at your goal and you don't have to fart around with turning your car into a science project.

Like I said earlier, there is something to be said for a BBC Camaro but if you are going to go that route make the engine worth the trouble. At least 700FWHP.Once you commit to that kiss 30k goodbye when it's said and done. Remember a BB weighs a good amount more then a SB. You need the extra horse with that thing.

Another option would be to look at shafiroff they have a 434 SBC that makes 625 on pump gas around 9K.

~Jim~

If you only want 380-450 to the wheels stick with a heads and cam ls and save plenty of cash . I want a bbc to make big power on motor as I love the sound of a v8 with a nasty idle and I love rpms . My ideal car would be powered by a 550 ci DRCE 3 and make peak around 8500+ . Not everything has to be converted in your car , BMR and others offer k members . You have a lot of options . The most important thing is spending your money wisely . A dream in the garage isn't as much fun as reality on the road .

point well said,god damn,i guess you cant have everything.Ls1,cam,heads,bolt ons and suspension it is,maybe ab ore as well.

10 k to build a 600 fwhp big block. I guess if you buy everything new maybe sheesh. Dont worry I am building a mild 400 horse for my f body swap. And Gen VI big blocks are not hard to find parts for at all.

i put a 454 in my 95Z it cost me some change at my buddys chassis shop ( halls customs ) however going this route i used motor plates and it saved alot of hacking. i still have my entire wiper cowl and i can still run a rear mount distributor

IM A BBC MAN MYSELF I WOULD THROW A RAT IN THAT PUPPY IN NANOSEC! BUT W/AN LSX BLOCK "YOUU COULD" GET 500ci W/AN LS BLOCK AND COME OUT CHEAPER IN THE FAB DEPT.

The ERL 500 inch short block's are like 14k.

Unless you are wanting to make 800+hp N/A or something I would stick with a LS motor.

Pick up an aluminum LS block then pick up a Iron LS block or Iron BBC block......

Now if you get an aluminum BBC block............


10 k to build a 600 fwhp big block. I guess if you buy everything new maybe sheesh. Dont worry I am building a mild 400 horse for my f body swap. And Gen VI big blocks are not hard to find parts for at all.

You can get 600 hp out of a descent cam and descent heads haha.

Throw in a mild cam and port match everything and you will have easy 400 range to the wheels with a BBC.

Regardless of what engine you select you are going to need a much stronger trans and rear. I'll give you some numbers for which to play with. 500 RWHP is roughly 600FWHP. Give or take what percentage you lose through the drive train. I'm figuring around 20%.

A nice 454 LSX will cost in the neighborhood of around 15K when done. Drop the engine in hook up the harness get the comp set up and get new fuel lines.

A BBC making 600FWHP is going to cost right around 8-9K for a cheaper one. a good one 700FWHP will be near 14K. Now throw on a new K-member A-arms while your at it, shocks, springs, Radiator, new fans, fuel system headers (either custom or the worked hookers) new steering rack, new gauges plus all the fab work and a new hood.

This should bring you to right around 15K or more. obviously these are all rough numbers but putting in a BBC requires you to change/ modify every system in the car.

Regardless of what you are going to put in the car LS or BBC, here are some rules to live by. Do it once do it right. You'll be kickin yourself if you have to pull a 454 because it blew a rod. I don't advise going halfway.

Run through some of the numbers and you'll figure it out. Like I said I'm doing this right now with a SBC and its adding up in a hurry I'm already 15K deep and I havent even made it to the trans and rear.

~Jim~


Your post is really off. The stock BBC crank will handle 800hp pretty easy and with a 2 bolt main, about the same for the rods. Get some good pistons, find a nice used single plane intake, some nice used aluminum heads, a good carb, a good cam and valvetrain and you could make 600 EASY, no bottle, just N/A. 8-9k is highway robery. My old junk had old heads and an old cam and I am sure it was making closer to 600 to the wheels, factory crank and rods.

A GOOD 454-500 inch LSX SHORT BLOCK will cost 14-15k.

MANY shops out there that will build a GOOD 1,000hp BBC intake to oil pan for about 14k...

not to mention the gas milage difference from a 600 fwhp bbc vs. any built ls motor.

Juiced:

You'll have to give me some names to these shops that'll build you a 1000HP BB for 14K.

Granted right now people are probably looking to sell but I haven't seen any selling at that price. A good reputable 540 700FWHP was going for just under 12K around me. Thats from the builder direct not used. Minus the carb, headers and ignition.

I was indeed wrong on the LSx build. I remember hearing that price but I thought it was for a complete. My mistake.

Regardless, you can always make power on the cheap but you run the risk of having to build it twice or possibly more then that. I like to have it built right the first time. If I have to over build the rotating assembly thats fine but I have the piece of mind. I've known to many racers who have tried to build on the cheap and blew the engines up.

~Jim~

There are some local shops and builders that will do it (not sponsors), the don't gouge you on the prices of parts and sometimes have some left overs that they will give you a deal on. All of them build some of the fastest cars in the area and midwest.

Some shops go overkill for just a 700FWHP 540 you don't needs a forged crank or rods or anything like that, some shops will say you do. There are at least two locals that will build you a 540 to make 800-900hp all day long and on the street. You find yourself a deal on a block and heads if they don't have any along with an intake, carb, oil pan, they do the port work and internals and for a lot less then you might think.
One of them has built at least one with more power and less CUI then one of Steve Smichdt (sp?) and did it on Steve Dyno and the motor cost quite a bit less.

To many people are go go ga ga over so many shops not knowing that most of the time you are just paying for the name and a lot of shops will sell you a "custom cam" but in reality they just called Comp or someone and got what they said to get. There is one porter out there that does work from time to time for one of the top LS shops in the country so you might get a set of race ported heads from this company but that company just had this guy do that work and marked up the price a little.

One shop here will build you a 540 to make 750hp on the street, two other guys will build you one that will make A LOT more on the street. One will build a 408 or so LS motor to make 600-700+hp on the street, 800+ track only BEFORE the 300 shot for both.

Juiced:

If you can, please PM me some of these shop names. 1000hp motor for that kind of cash is unheard of around my parts.

Like I said before I'm a guy who likes to have the insurance of high quality parts. When your spending that kind of money to me the extra 2-3K is worth it. I guess to each his own. I've always stuck by the principal of do it right the first time so you don't have to worry about future upgrades or abuse.

I'll agree with you that a lot of builders charge for the name but some shops your paying for their expertise and their proven results Steve Morris for example.


~Jim~

big displacement plus turbo=:D

Juiced:

If you can, please PM me some of these shop names. 1000hp motor for that kind of cash is unheard of around my parts.

Like I said before I'm a guy who likes to have the insurance of high quality parts. When your spending that kind of money to me the extra 2-3K is worth it. I guess to each his own. I've always stuck by the principal of do it right the first time so you don't have to worry about future upgrades or abuse.

I'll agree with you that a lot of builders charge for the name but some shops your paying for their expertise and their proven results Steve Morris for example.


~Jim~

Sometimes parts like Summit parts are cheap but are another brand just a different label. Summit bearings are in reality King bearings. A lot of the big power guys run them. The IK series or whatever Brodix SBC heads you can get with a Summit name on them for like $400 less. At least one guy had them show up in Brodix boxes.... The summit AN fittings are made by Earl's....

You have a PM.

Juiced:

Thanks again for the info.

I understand what your saying about rebranded parts. I personally have not had that much expirence with rebranded parts so I can't really comment on it but I know it happens.

I like summit they are good about standing behind their products. I could see using rebranded items from them. I have never had a problem getting items refunded or replaced from summit.

Any whoo, to the OP do your home work and get started.

Good luck.

~Jim~