Automotive News, Media & Press - Official - GM Starving Pontiac to Death, Ditching Saab, Saturn and HUMMER

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2009/Pontiac/2009.pontiac.solstice.20236106-E.jpg

By Robert Farago
January 11, 2009

Time to update “the future of car?” Yup. GM’s Car Czar has admitted that Pontiac has a new motto: “Pontiac is toast.”

Automotive News [sub] reports that Bob Lutz has admitted that GM is trimming Pontiac’s line-up to five vehicles– if you count the Solstice hardtop as a separate model. Which we don’t. That leaves Pontiac with four vehicles: the doomed Australian-sourced G8, the G5, the Toyota co-production Vibe and the dead-in-the-water “we don’t need no stinkin’ trunk space” Solstice.

Maximum Bob’s admission that Pontiac is being strategically reviewed to death comes hard on the heels of GM NA Prez Troy Clarke’s assertion that GM will “follow through with plans to shrink to four core brands.” That would be Buick, Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC; ditching HUMMER, Saab, Pontiac and… Saturn.

”‘We’ve entered into a very, very open and candid dialogue with our Saturn retailers,” Clarke said. Saturn, launched 19 years ago, has been successful in terms of brand attributes, he said. But ‘it just hasn’t been a good business for us… We need some breakthrough options here. We can’t continue brands that have no prospect of earning their way.’” It took them how long to figure this out? And, by the way, whose fault is that?

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Why is GMC staying around?

Would it be possible to throw the G8 at Chevrolet as an Impala?

Woohoo!

HUMMER, Saab, Pontiac and Saturn have been off my radar for years. Last car I liked from any of those brands was the Bonneville GXP, gone since '05. They offer nothing worthwhile now, IMO.

No loss. Less waste means we'll see better cars from the remaining brands.

gay...poor pontiac :(

I like the solstice but just not practical to me being a two seater and when do get a two seater likely get a vette. Still nice looking and with turbo pretty nice preforming car.

I liked the older two door supercharged grand prixs. I was not impressed when they went to four door only grand prixs.

I liked of course the firebirds and especially TA and in my life have owned a 77 bandit as my first car in 1978, thru the years have owned a 78 TA, 81 formula , 80 ta and 96 TA,97 TA and 99 TA my current ride. Only owned one camaro the 96z that currently own.
Also owned 84,85 and 86 pontiac fieros.

Hummer are cool but too big and not my style. Saturn never really did it for me the Sky is a nice looking car and decent performer in turbo form. None of the other saturns held any interest. Saab is interesting company but never really liked the styling of most of the Saabs.

It is only in Gms best interest to not have so many similar cars . I mean they used to have like six versions of their minivan. That was really stupid.

Why is GMC staying around?

Would it be possible to throw the G8 at Chevrolet as an Impala?

Work truck fleet. They released sales numbers for 2008 and the #1 selling vehicle by volume was the GMC Sierra and #2 was the F150. Who can argue with that.

I say this will be a good thing. It will end a good amount of the wasteful money burning that has been going on for decades.

hey, if all this fat trimmed fat will produce better cars down the road (i.e. camaro ) I'm all for it. Whatever it takes to get this company churning again

Work truck fleet. They released sales numbers for 2008 and the #1 selling vehicle by volume was the GMC Sierra and #2 was the F150. Who can argue with that.

Propping up a brand entirely for low-profit margin fleet sales is quite an expensive endevour, especially considering the brand is entirely Chevrolet clones.

Saturn has been doomed ever since GM reintegrated it with the rest of GM. When Saturn first started out it took pains to appear non-GM. Seperate dealers, seperate TV ads, etc. I grew up on the East Coast and knew people who swore they'd never buy American, but owned a Saturn because they didn't associate the name with the Big Three. When Saturn was focused on being an asian import better and appearing slightly asian itself, it did great on the coasts and in markets that were typically unfriendly to GM.

Then GM brought Saturn into the fold, now GM runs these sales and mentions all their brands "See your local Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, GMC, Saturn, Saab, Hummer, etc" dealers today! Saturn got lumped in to the Big Three and suddenly just became the Euroe version of Chevy.

Saab these days doesn't really have a place in North America. It basically overlaps with various Buicks and some Cadillacs. No need for it to sell in North America.

I'm a Pontiac man and hope it soldiers on as kind of the rear wheel drive brand of GM. Bring up V8 sedans, wagons, etc from Australia and sell them in a niche market. The G8 has won all kinds of awards, but they don't seem to be moving.

Tri-Shield
I disagree, GMC is quite valuable, if you compare a Chevy product to a GMC product, the GMC product typically costs more. When my father was buying work trucks he bought Expresses because they were cheaper than a virtually identical Savannah. As near as I can figure it GMC is the 'pestrige' truck brand. Peel off the Silverado sticker and replace it with a Sierra sticker, mark the price up, sell it and enjoy the larger profit margin. The vehicles are designed by the same people (they're nearly identical half the time), produced on the same lines, so it costs GM little to keep them going.

GM needs to get rid of Buick as well. No sense in keeping that brand, it is just another batch of rebadged and redundant vehicles. The goal is to keep Buick as a mid-level price range between Chevy and Caddy, but they could easily just make a lower priced Caddy or more expensive Chevy and get rid of Buick altogether. I know Buick is more popular in other countries like China, well they can just keep that brand overseas perhaps.

Chevrolet = passenger cars (no trucks or SUVs)
GMC = all trucks and SUVs
Cadillac = high end cars and SUVs

Simple.

I'm guessing that Buick is being kept alive solely because they think it might tarnish the brand in China if they were to drop it here.

GM has been slowly homogenizing the contents of its divisions since the 1950's. Time was when divisional product was unique and there was competition between the divisions. Brand loyalty was fierce and GM reaped the profits from all of them.
Beancounter geniuses figured out all the savings that GM could achieve by having the divisions use identical parts for everything. Badge engineering became GM policy and their marketshare shrunk as it went forward.

Traditionalists argue that Pontiac died when the last Pontiac V8 was produced in 1981. They are probably right.

I'm guessing that Buick is being kept alive solely because they think it might tarnish the brand in China if they were to drop it here.

Buick actually has pretty good customer loyalty. A lot of those people are the walking dead (senior citizens that do 25 mph in the left lane with the blinker on), but hey they are a loyal.

My mother was one telling me how for my grandfather his goal in life was to get a Buick, and once he got that Buick he'd arrived damnit!

I wonder if Buick is being kept around for the older generations that are loyal to it / desirious of it. It could be once they die off Buick dies or else tries to reinvent itself. For a lot of the younger crowd the last car they made that any of us want was the GNX, so I don't see them selling to us, but we're not the only car buyers out there.

Also Buick has a pretty good history for not sucking. Yeah the cars are boxy, kinda ugly, but they are #3 in reliability. When I was looking for a DD I seriousily considered a Buick.

HUMMER, Saab, Pontiac and Saturn have been off my radar for years. Last car I liked from any of those brands was the Bonneville GXP, gone since '05. They offer nothing worthwhile now, IMO.

No loss. Less waste means we'll see better cars from the remaining brands.

Wait, so you liked the Bonneville which was a FWD sloppy barge rental car, but the RWD, classy, sleek sports sedan G8 is off your radar??? You need to adjust the radar to stop picking up grandfather cars and start looking for nice ones...
http://www.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2007/221/pn2007g8gtshowcar22113981.jpg
The G8 is arguably the best Pontiac sedan ever.

I guess pontiac's perceived quality is so crappy these days it may not make sense to try and reinvent them like they did with saturn, which was arguably unsuccessful.

American's just don't want the monaro/commodore I guess. It's called the Chevrolet Lumina in Saudi Arabia.

I guess pontiac's perceived quality is so crappy these days it may not make sense to try and reinvent them like they did with saturn, which was arguably unsuccessful.

American's just don't want the monaro/commodore I guess. It's called the Chevrolet Lumina in Saudi Arabia.

their perceived quality is bad, my gf has a 2000 grand am which is absolutely terrible (everything electrical has gone wrong in that car) and no one wants to try the new stuff.

Why they don't just keep the Holden name here in the states is beyond me. All of the holden cars look better than the pontiac counterparts IMO and holden would be a name people wouldn't associate with pontiac

Wait, so you liked the Bonneville which was a FWD sloppy barge rental car, but the RWD, classy, sleek sports sedan G8 is off your radar??? You need to adjust the radar to stop picking up grandfather cars and start looking for nice ones...

The G8 is arguably the best Pontiac sedan ever.

he's just having moderator PMS :lol:

id say the G8 did pontiac good compared to the GTO.

i like tony's idea of the fleet lineup. its more sensible and organized than what they have now.

I feel somewhat sorry for saturn it seemed as if they were getting a second wind.

the loss of Pontiac will be devastating, leave it to the blood thirsty, cut throat executives priding themselves with yachts, and pricey vacations while America's corner stone industry erodes from a sea of heartless import horse shit

Wait, so you liked the Bonneville which was a FWD sloppy barge rental car, but the RWD, classy, sleek sports sedan G8 is off your radar??? You need to adjust the radar to stop picking up grandfather cars and start looking for nice ones...
The G8 is arguably the best Pontiac sedan ever.Yeah really LOL, well said. :nod:

Wow.. I hope the G8 lives as something else. Very cool car.

Wait, so you liked the Bonneville which was a FWD sloppy barge rental car, but the RWD, classy, sleek sports sedan G8 is off your radar??? You need to adjust the radar to stop picking up grandfather cars and start looking for nice ones...
http://www.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2007/221/pn2007g8gtshowcar22113981.jpg
The G8 is arguably the best Pontiac sedan ever.

You need to adjust your brain to accept that not everyone likes the same look. BTW, what car in my sig is a Grandfather car? I sold all those already. :P

I'm just not feeling the G8 as a 4-door. Although, I will say that the G8 would have made a cool looking coupe. Bonneville GXP was a much better looking sedan (I like longer 4-door cars), and had it been RWD it would have been perfect.

Leave it to GM to get this wrong, I wouldn't expect any less these days.

GMC should go.

Buick should go.

Saturn should stay as it had inroads in a market area GM is weak in...got to think long term...oh wait...it's GM they never think long term...or much at all...beyond next quarter.

The Sky looks so much better from the front than the Sol, I hope the Sol gets a nose job as it badly needs one.

Wait, so you liked the Bonneville which was a FWD sloppy barge rental car, but the RWD, classy, sleek sports sedan G8 is off your radar??? You need to adjust the radar to stop picking up grandfather cars and start looking for nice ones...
http://www.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2007/221/pn2007g8gtshowcar22113981.jpg
The G8 is arguably the best Pontiac sedan ever.

:stupid:

that G8 GXP is :smokin2: & :pimp:; I'm just not crazy about 4-door sport cars. Don't get me wrong, it is beautiful, but IDK, i'm just not "there yet".

Basically EVERYTHING is "up in the air" and potentially on the chopping block; wven the new Camaro. The next couple of yrs will, IMO, really define the future of future cars, models, and such. I wouldn't bank on anything right now.

The Sky looks so much better from the front than the Sol, I hope the Sol gets a nose job as it badly needs one.

I completely agree with this. In my opinion, the Sky looks 10 times better than the Solstice.

I do feel bad for Saturn and Pontiac, as I think they should just merge and cover the "entry level" vehicle stuff, keeping the Astra/Aura/Sky/Vue and keep the Pontiac G5/G6/G8. My girlfriend just bought a new Astra a few months ago, and it is a pretty nice little car (for what it is). The Aura could be kept or ditched, wouldn't phase me either way. The Vue/Equinox/Torrent are basically the same, so pick one and ditch the others, and the Saturn Outlook reminds me a lot of the new GMC Acadia, so pick one of those also (I prefer Outlook, but whatever). Keeping the Solstice over the Sky just doesn't make that much sense - I'd have to compare the sales volume to judge that decision.

I still don't understand the whole "GMC/Chevy truck" line of thinking. I mean, if they are trying to reduce redundancy, this seems like the FIRST place to start.

The ONLY thing wrong with the G8 is the name. They need something more catchy or go with one of the popular old names. A lot of it is just in people's heads. As soon as I have the money, I want a GXP because its a great car for a decent price. I can get past the name

The ONLY thing wrong with the G8 is the name. They need something more catchy or go with one of the popular old names. A lot of it is just in people's heads. As soon as I have the money, I want a GXP because its a great car for a decent price. I can get past the name

What I can't get past is the 4 doors. It saddens me that Pontiac's most powerful performance car has 4 doors. That's just not my style.

Pontiac really missed the boat here, they gave us a bland-looking GTO from '04 to '06, but at least it was a coupe. Then, they give us a nice, edgy/sharp looking G8, but it's got too many doors.

G8 styling with GTO door configuration AND the GTO nameplate would have been an awesome car, though. Too bad they missed that ticket.

Chevrolet = passenger cars (no trucks or SUVs)
GMC = all trucks and SUVs
Cadillac = high end cars and SUVs


Thats what I've been saying for the past two years. Buick should be kept, just not in the US.

I am a big fan of the G8, so I hope they keep it as a Chevy. I do like the solstice as well.

I hope GM brings back Oldsmobile. :chug:

If a brand or product is dropped it's for one simple reason.

No enough units were sold. :bang:

If you want a product to stick around do somethng besides take a test drive. :emb:

:angel: Jakes Dad

I never ever figured out why GM stopped making the 55 through 57 chevy. :barf:

G8 styling with GTO door configuration AND the GTO nameplate would have been an awesome car, though. Too bad they missed that ticket.

Or they could have done a 2-door and 4-door versions. Similar to what Infinity does with the G35/37. I love the G8 as is, but I do agree that a 2-door would be better as I prefer 2-doors :)

What I can't get past is the 4 doors. It saddens me that Pontiac's most powerful performance car has 4 doors. That's just not my style.

Pontiac really missed the boat here, they gave us a bland-looking GTO from '04 to '06, but at least it was a coupe. Then, they give us a nice, edgy/sharp looking G8, but it's got too many doors.

G8 styling with GTO door configuration AND the GTO nameplate would have been an awesome car, though. Too bad they missed that ticket.

While i agree that a 2 dr would have been better it would have been more costly to design as i don't believe they make a Holden on that platform in 2 dr. Then the demand for 2dr cars in the states isn't as high and less functional and that's not what GM was going for with the G8. They wanted something to replace the Grand Prix. i just think that there wasn't enough demand for a 2dr. to justify the cost

You need to adjust your brain to accept that not everyone likes the same look. BTW, what car in my sig is a Grandfather car? I sold all those already. :P
Alright I meant no offense to you, and the 3 cars in your sig are of course great. But with that said the Bonneville has nothing on the G8, even the base model.


I'm just not feeling the G8 as a 4-door. Although, I will say that the G8 would have made a cool looking coupe. Bonneville GXP was a much better looking sedan (I like longer 4-door cars), and had it been RWD it would have been perfect.
Inside and out IMO its 80s ugly in comparison to the G8. It was using an outdated slush box in an outdated chassis. The interior couldn't really be much worse:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/cc/images/2004bonnevilleint.jpg
Compared to:
http://zeusville.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/holden-commodore-ss-03-interior.jpg



What I can't get past is the 4 doors. It saddens me that Pontiac's most powerful performance car has 4 doors. That's just not my style.

Pontiac really missed the boat here, they gave us a bland-looking GTO from '04 to '06, but at least it was a coupe. Then, they give us a nice, edgy/sharp looking G8, but it's got too many doors.

G8 styling with GTO door configuration AND the GTO nameplate would have been an awesome car, though. Too bad they missed that ticket.
While I agree they should have made a coupe version, the 4 doors looks great and doesn't bother me one bit. Who cares that their most powerful car is a 4 door? Its a world class sports sedan that rightfully competes with the likes of BMW in performance and driving experience. Think about having Corvette-like performance, yet you look behind you to notice a large back seat, two more doors and lots of trunk space, that's awesome. This is one of the things I loved about the 1st gen CTS-V I drove. If you were wearing a blind fold driving (metaphorically) you'd never know it was a sedan because it drove like a proper sports car. But it wasn't trying to be a sports car, it was being the elegant and sophisticated sports sedan that it was built to be. The G8 is no different, but has more muscle car in the place of a little less polish. Im guessing you think the G8 wants to be a sports car, which is not the case.

I for one am glad to see saab go, as a more than livid 900 S driver, I couldn't express less satisfaction with them or their product line. Saab may have built airplanes, but I wouldn't trust them to build a quality stool.

But with that said the Bonneville has nothing on the G8, even the base model. Inside and out IMO its 80s ugly in comparison to the G8.....The interior couldn't really be much worse....

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Inside and out, I just like the Bonneville's look better. Again, that's with the as-is G8 sedan. Appearance wise, had Pontiac come up with a 2-door version of the G8 that retained all other styling cues (other than the extra 2 doors), I'm sure I would have liked it better than a '04-'05 GXP Bonneville. As for interior, I've sat in both and I actually prefer the Bonneville interior. I was not really impressed at all with the interior of the G8 GT that I sat in at the '08 NAIAS.

It was using an outdated slush box in an outdated chassis.

No arguement here. I would have loved to see the Bonneville built on a nice, longer [than the G8] RWD structure with an LS1/LS2 under the hood (since no LS3 was available in '04-'05). I just really liked the long, full-sized appearance of the car, which is correct for a luxury sedan. And IMO, the only cars (not counting SUVs) that should have 4 doors are luxury cars or econo-boxes.

Who cares that their most powerful car is a 4 door? Its a world class sports sedan that rightfully competes with the likes of BMW in performance and driving experience. Think about having Corvette-like performance, yet you look behind you to notice a large back seat, two more doors and lots of trunk space, that's awesome.

This is where our disconnect is. I really don't want to look behind me and see a large back seat, two more doors, and/or lots of trunk space when driving a sport/performance car. Those are all things that I like to see in a luxury sedan. Usually, all those considerations (rear seats, cargo space, etc.) cause for some compromise in styling. I'll bet that if the G8 was designed as a coupe, the look that you already love would be even more aggressive and plain badass. Just think about a 1970 Chevelle hardtop coupe vs a 1970 Malibu 4-door. Generally, they are the same car.... but the coupe looks soooooooo much better. ;)


This is one of the things I loved about the 1st gen CTS-V I drove. If you were wearing a blind fold driving (metaphorically) you'd never know it was a sedan because it drove like a proper sports car. But it wasn't trying to be a sports car, it was being the elegant and sophisticated sports sedan that it was built to be. The G8 is no different, but has more muscle car in the place of a little less polish. Im guessing you think the G8 wants to be a sports car, which is not the case.

My view is this: If you want a muscle/performance car, then things like a spacious back seat and large trunk are likely not top on your list of concerns.....styling and performance likely is though. This is why I'd like to see a coupe version. People wanting a 4-door luxury car that also moves should in fact be looking at (and likely would be looking at) something from Cadillac, like the CTS-V, or STS-V.

Work truck fleet. They released sales numbers for 2008 and the #1 selling vehicle by volume was the GMC Sierra and #2 was the F150. Who can argue with that.

They are fleet vehicles. I doubt anyone would mind buying a Chevrolet if there were no GMC's around. Have you ever seen a Chevrolet commercial truck dealer?


Tri-Shield
I disagree, GMC is quite valuable, if you compare a Chevy product to a GMC product, the GMC product typically costs more. When my father was buying work trucks he bought Expresses because they were cheaper than a virtually identical Savannah. As near as I can figure it GMC is the 'pestrige' truck brand. Peel off the Silverado sticker and replace it with a Sierra sticker, mark the price up, sell it and enjoy the larger profit margin. The vehicles are designed by the same people (they're nearly identical half the time), produced on the same lines, so it costs GM little to keep them going.

You may be right that there might not be a reason to cut them if they are making a profit - but if they didn't exist, there are no other "high-end" brands from any manufacturer. They could buy a highly optioned Chevrolet (like a LTZ - or maybe the Denali trim could be given to Chevrolet). That said, They may position GMC to be more like Buick and drop the lower trim levels like SLE as well as the Canyon and Acadia.

GM needs to get rid of Buick as well. No sense in keeping that brand, it is just another batch of rebadged and redundant vehicles. The goal is to keep Buick as a mid-level price range between Chevy and Caddy, but they could easily just make a lower priced Caddy or more expensive Chevy and get rid of Buick altogether. I know Buick is more popular in other countries like China, well they can just keep that brand overseas perhaps.

Chevrolet = passenger cars (no trucks or SUVs)
GMC = all trucks and SUVs
Cadillac = high end cars and SUVs

Simple.

I've also thought that there is no need for Buick. If they want to cater to a mid-upper segment, they could make a lower-level Cadillac. With that said, would that compromise the Cadillac brand (remember the Cimmaron)?

I do disagree that the Chevrolet should give up truck and SUV sales to GMC. There is a reason why Chevrolet has it all under one roof.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Inside and out, I just like the Bonneville's look better. Again, that's with the as-is G8 sedan. Appearance wise, had Pontiac come up with a 2-door version of the G8 that retained all other styling cues (other than the extra 2 doors), I'm sure I would have liked it better than a '04-'05 GXP Bonneville. As for interior, I've sat in both and I actually prefer the Bonneville interior. I was not really impressed at all with the interior of the G8 GT that I sat in at the '08 NAIAS.





Out of curiosity, how old are you?

Out of curiosity, how old are you?

Yes, I am older than you judging by your profile age. But I'm probably not as old as some of you seem to think. Just look at the cars I own. ;)

4 doors = utility or luxury to me, not performance oriented or sport appearance. Just a matter of preference.

I think you might be missing my point. I don't feel that the Bonneville is a better car (in theroy) than a G8, I just think that the Bonneville was a more appropriate sedan than the smaller G8. I would love to see a car that retains most of the G8 styling, but without the extra rear doors.

Again, think '70 Chevelle 2-door vs '70 Malibu 4-door. Same general car, yet the coupe looks so much better (I think 99% of people would agree with that).

What I can't get past is the 4 doors. It saddens me that Pontiac's most powerful performance car has 4 doors. That's just not my style. Pontiac really missed the boat here, they gave us a bland-looking GTO from '04 to '06, but at least it was a coupe. Then, they give us a nice, edgy/sharp looking G8, but it's got too many doors.
G8 styling with GTO door configuration AND the GTO nameplate would have been an awesome car, though. Too bad they missed that ticket.I agree ... it's tough for me to consider a four door. But BMW has made the four door sports sedan a commonplace with numerous great 5-series models going back to the '70's. This car fits that category and does well in it.

Seriously guys, some of you would say scrap GMC over Chevrolet? No offense, but the last 10 years the GMC trucks looked a lot better than the Chevys, and sold better too. Yes we all know they are the same truck, except for front end, rear end, and some slight interior upgrades. But generally, they always looked better. Especially the few times Chevy decided to change the front end/grill on the Silverado, many people disliked it and bought the GMC. Plus look at the Sierra Denali with quadrasteer, very tasteful mods, motor upgrade. If you've owned both in the last 10 years, you know what I am talking about.

Resolution: Keep Sierra truck, Denali, even new Acadia, scrap every other model.

Hands down, the new 2009 Sierra Denali crew cab is the Best looking, driving, performing pickup out there.

My girlfriend just bought a new Astra a few months ago, and it is a pretty nice little car (for what it is). The Aura could be kept or ditched, wouldn't phase me either way.The Astra seems like a pretty cool small car, I bet it handles quite well for a basic FWD coupe/sedan.
I love the Aura, great mid size family sedan and good looking car but fortunately the similar Malibu will live on to keep that line going.
I am concerned what will happen to the Saturn/Sky line seeing as both Saturn and Pontiac are going away. Those are great little sports cars (I prefer the looks of the Sky as well btw but I still love both), it'd be a shame to see them both go. :nono:

I agree with Tony's line up and have said several times in the recent past that is what should happen. Bring the G8 to Chevrolet and get rid of the stupid alpha-numeric name. That is an Impala-Grand Prix-Cutlass-Skylark-Gran Sport-Biscayne-Caprice-Tempest-Chevelle........just pick one of the big car names from the past and use it.
The Sky should come to Chevrolet as the new Monza or Vega:D.

I think people may shy away from "Vega." That's like Ford calling the new Focus the "Pinto."

i agree that GMC should stay but in LIMITED models. Sierra/Denali and Acadia. Only GMC truck i'd own is the Denali and the Acadia's are NICE and see ALOT of them on the road. Sky should come over as a Chevy model and so should the G8. It'll be an interesting few years when this all starts to happen:( Since Pontiac will be starved to death i bet we'll see a Buick Trans Am WS6 before long:D

The Astra seems like a pretty cool small car, I bet it handles quite well for a basic FWD coupe/sedan.
I love the Aura, great mid size family sedan and good looking car but fortunately the similar Malibu will live on to keep that line going.
I am concerned what will happen to the Saturn/Sky line seeing as both Saturn and Pontiac are going away. Those are great little sports cars (I prefer the looks of the Sky as well btw but I still love both), it'd be a shame to see them both go. :nono:
The Astra does quite well, although I think it isn't geared the best in "automatic" trim (you're in 4th gear at around 35 mph, if not a bit sooner). It is a "foreign" car though, so there are some subtle changes to get use to. She has about 4300 miles on it in 3 months, and it seems to be running smoother now - all in all a solid little car for what it is.

I agree with the Malibu surviving at the expense of the Aura. There is so much redundancy in the GM stable that I overlook some of the more obvious ones...

Since Pontiac will be starved to death i bet we'll see a Buick Trans Am WS6 before long:D
I guess a "Buick Firehawk" would be just as fitting as the Firehawk G8... :nono:

I guess a "Buick Firehawk" would be just as fitting as the Firehawk G8... :nono:

A GNX Firehawk would be more worthy than a G8 Firehawk. I'm not saying it would be worthy, just closer to be being worthy.

Seriously guys, some of you would say scrap GMC over Chevrolet? No offense, but the last 10 years the GMC trucks looked a lot better than the Chevys, and sold better too. Yes we all know they are the same truck, except for front end, rear end, and some slight interior upgrades. But generally, they always looked better. Especially the few times Chevy decided to change the front end/grill on the Silverado, many people disliked it and bought the GMC. Plus look at the Sierra Denali with quadrasteer, very tasteful mods, motor upgrade. If you've owned both in the last 10 years, you know what I am talking about.

Resolution: Keep Sierra truck, Denali, even new Acadia, scrap every other model.

Hands down, the new 2009 Sierra Denali crew cab is the Best looking, driving, performing pickup out there.


that's about how i feel. our '98 Silverado hasn't lost its appeal to me, but for 99+ models, i'll take the GMC :nod: especially the '05+ models.

Hands down, the new 2009 Sierra Denali crew cab is the Best looking, driving, performing pickup out there.That's a fine lookin' truck. :thumb:

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Inside and out, I just like the Bonneville's look better. Again, that's with the as-is G8 sedan. Appearance wise, had Pontiac come up with a 2-door version of the G8 that retained all other styling cues (other than the extra 2 doors), I'm sure I would have liked it better than a '04-'05 GXP Bonneville. As for interior, I've sat in both and I actually prefer the Bonneville interior. I was not really impressed at all with the interior of the G8 GT that I sat in at the '08 NAIAS.
You are definitely part of the minority then. While the Bonneville's interior is functional it's painful to look at, it makes you feel like you are in a rental car from the 80s. The G8's interior on the other hand makes you feel like you are at least driving something worth while.

No arguement here. I would have loved to see the Bonneville built on a nice, longer [than the G8] RWD structure with an LS1/LS2 under the hood (since no LS3 was available in '04-'05). I just really liked the long, full-sized appearance of the car, which is correct for a luxury sedan. And IMO, the only cars (not counting SUVs) that should have 4 doors are luxury cars or econo-boxes.

You seem to be stuck in the 60s.
To me a "long, full sized appearance" usually means a boring, overweight car. Long front overhangs are an absolute appearance nightmare, which the Bonneville seems to suffer from. Example, look at the nasty front overhang on the DTS compared to the overhang on the CTS.
http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/izp/cadillac_dts_luxuryi_2009_exterior_sideview_640x48 0.jpg
http://image.motortrend.com/f/9498315/112_0709_09z+2008_cadillac_CTS+side_view.jpg

More often than not the typical 90s and older "long, full sized" American sedan has lots of wasted space that could have been trimmed down for weight savings and better aerodynamics.


This is where our disconnect is. I really don't want to look behind me and see a large back seat, two more doors, and/or lots of trunk space when driving a sport/performance car. Those are all things that I like to see in a luxury sedan. Usually, all those considerations (rear seats, cargo space, etc.) cause for some compromise in styling.

Your looking at it wrong. Its a luxury/sports sedan first, a muscle car/performance car second. This is no way is trying to replace the typical two door performance coupe, but rather its just another class of vehicle. And rightfully so the styling should be compared to other cars of its class (other sports sedans, not coupes). Think of it like a cheaper CTS with a V8.


I'll bet that if the G8 was designed as a coupe, the look that you already love would be even more aggressive and plain badass. Just think about a 1970 Chevelle hardtop coupe vs a 1970 Malibu 4-door. Generally, they are the same car.... but the coupe looks soooooooo much better. ;)

Apples to oranges.


My view is this: If you want a muscle/performance car, then things like a spacious back seat and large trunk are likely not top on your list of concerns.....styling and performance likely is though.

Agreed. But again you are looking at it wrong. This car is in no way trying to replace the 2 door coupe in your garage, but rather its providing a great comfortable daily driver without compromising performance. While their performance might be similar, they should not be compared because they are of a different class. This car is for someone looking for a 4 door sports sedan, not a 2 door coupe.

This is why I'd like to see a coupe version. People wanting a 4-door luxury car that also moves should in fact be looking at (and likely would be looking at) something from Cadillac, like the CTS-V, or STS-V.
Both of which are far more expensive than even the top of the line G8 GXP. Let me ask you, do you have a problem with the CTS-V? Does it bother you that Cadillac's fastest car is a 4 door?

You are definitely part of the minority then. While the Bonneville's interior is functional it's painful to look at, it makes you feel like you are in a rental car from the 80s. The G8's interior on the other hand makes you feel like you are at least driving something worth while.

I just can't agree with this. The materials in the G8 did not feel or look any nicer to me than the Bonneville GXP's. Just different taste I guess.

You seem to be stuck in the 60s.

Thank you (seriously). :) Dozens of beautiful domestic cars were built in the '60s, these days I can count on one hand how many domestic cars look really good to me.

To me a "long, full sized appearance" usually means a boring, overweight car. Long front overhangs are an absolute appearance nightmare, which the Bonneville seems to suffer from. Example, look at the nasty front overhang on the DTS compared to the overhang on the CTS.

I have no issues with an overhang on a 4-door car, nor does weight bother me (so long as it's offset with some extra power).

More often than not the typical 90s and older "long, full sized" American sedan has lots of wasted space that could have been trimmed down for weight savings and better aerodynamics.

Again, these are not concerns to me on a 4-door luxury car.


Your looking at it wrong. Its a luxury/sports sedan first, a muscle car/performance car second. This is no way is trying to replace the typical two door performance coupe, but rather its just another class of vehicle. And rightfully so the styling should be compared to other cars of its class (other sports sedans, not coupes). Think of it like a cheaper CTS with a V8.

I understand the concept of a sport sedan, for people that "want it all" from one car, but I just don't share that desire. I'd much rather have a coupe whenever possibile.

Apples to oranges.

How? The A-body cars of the '60s/'70s were all the exact same cars under the skin, other than the fact that you could have 2 or 4 doors. These were mid-sized cars in their day (just like the G8 is today). The coupes always looked better (opinion yes, but nearly ANYONE would agree with this). So I think it's safe (and fair) to say that a G8 coupe based on the same general style of the sedan pictured in this thread, would look better.


Agreed. But again you are looking at it wrong. This car is in no way trying to replace the 2 door coupe in your garage, but rather its providing a great comfortable daily driver without compromising performance. While their performance might be similar, they should not be compared because they are of a different class. This car is for someone looking for a 4 door sports sedan, not a 2 door coupe.

I think we're debating two different issues here. You're trying to sell me on the concept of a sport sedan.....I'm just trying to explain why I don't like the car personally....and what it would take to get me to like it. Remember, this debate started with me stating that Pontiac was off MY radar. That's just my personal preferance, because why the hell would I even consider a G8 4-door when I don't need or want 4-doors, and I can get the same performance and more muscular appearance out of a '10 Camaro SS, for the same price or less? Answer: I can't. Hence the reason why Pontiac is off the table for me.... if I buy something new, I can get much closer to what I want from Chevy, so that's where I'll go. If Pontiac had offered a G8 coupe, then I'd weigh that heavily against the Camaro before making a decision.

Both of which are far more expensive than even the top of the line G8 GXP. Let me ask you, do you have a problem with the CTS-V? Does it bother you that Cadillac's fastest car is a 4 door?

Not at all. It's a Cadillac, and although Cadillac used to offer a wide range of 2-door cars, they've never had a primary image of sport or performance....but rather luxury. Just so happens that they're now adding some balls to the luxury. Pontiac on the other hand was supposed to have more of a "performance" image, or at least GM has stated this in the past. I just think that the Pontiac brand would be better served by having a world class, aggressive appearing and category leading performance car with a 2 door option. Solstice does not fit that description at all, IMO.

I remember my dad always telling me back in 2002 that Pontiac wont live another 10 years. Guess he was right. :(

Their marketting has always sucked for just about any brand. The brands that are moved the most are the ones that are advertised the most. Anyone outside of the car world would have no idea what a G8 is. Same could be said with the modern GTO, but even badging it a GTO was a mistake in the first place and lack of options was a poor mistake.

I honestly don't see GM living past 10 years from now if they keep going in the direction they are going. Funny thing is that everything people bitch and moan about the similarities about the Pontiacs with the nose and that is happening with the Chevy lineup, but apparently it is totally different.:eyes: If you want to see what a Chevy G8 will look like, you probably don't have to look much further than the front and rear end of a Malibu. Instead of the grill being verticle it is going to be horizontal.

Also for the record, I would so rock a Bonnie GXP just like you RPM WS6.:pimp: Don't know what it is but the car has always kind of appealed to me. Even if it has a "rental" car type of interior, which I would guess that comes down to any car with some sort of leather or vinyl layers on it. :eyes:

For you RPM WS6 it's what a 2 door G8 coupe would have looked like. It's in Holden form but you get the idea.

http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/2/large/9080229.002.Mini8L1.jpg
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2008/2/large/9080229.002.Mini10L1.jpg

damn thats sexy. I don't understand people hating on the g8s. They are a great car inside and out, their only problem being lack of movement sales wise. Part of that may be their pricing, but quality isn't cheap.

The problem is it's too late. There's been too long of a pattern of mediocre offerings for people to jump right back into bed with the Big 3. It's gonna take time.