Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - 305 sbc...

Anyone make any power with one of these? I know it's got a small bore and all, but a turbo or two can make up for a lot...

Well, assuming the logic of 1.5 HP per cube, 400 HP is not impossible, but a 350 will make 450. Other than that, boat anchor.

With a carefull parts selection you can get 475-480 HP NA engine with daily driver compatibility. However you can make more with a 350 block and the same money like Zone said.

If you are going to bother with a rebuild, might as well go with a 350. They use the same accesories and belt routing, so its just a direct drop in replacement. A carbed to carbed motor would require no rewiring, a TBI to TBI swap might require a few wiring projects, but nothing major. Probably the easiest motor upgrade possible.

if your "stuck" with a 305 don't be discouraged. Granted like the previous posters said the 350 has alot more opportunities but the 305 can be decent. However you said something about some boost, then of coarse your gonna want a stronger crank and rods and at that point i don't see it being worth it because you could do the same with the 350.

With stock internals, if you have a flat top motor, then your best bet would be to find some 87-92 vortech 305 truck heads with the 55cc combustion chamber. This way it'll make a hair over 11:1, do a little bowl and runner work and set them up with a good set of 130lbs seat pressure springs, go with a mild open plane intake (torker or similar), 600-750 cfm holley, and a pretty hot hydralic cam somewhere between .470-.510 lift. I had a similar combo in a 3rd gen firebird when i was in high school it had a th350/3500 stall and it ran 13.30's on the motor and a 125 shot dipped into the 11's (barely!)..Not saying you'd see that because mine had some great head work done to them.....But all in all, yes a 305 can make some ok power with the right parts. Good luck!!

Well, assuming the logic of 1.5 HP per cube, 400 HP is not impossible, but a 350 will make 450. Other than that, boat anchor.

Where'd you get 1.5hp per ci?

It is just a basic average for a motor running efficient for 93 octane. It is pretty acurate for the most part. But that is with the better parts in general, nothing mild and getting where old people dont like to DD anything running that lumpy and what not.

It is just a basic average for a motor running efficient for 93 octane. It is pretty acurate for the most part. But that is with the better parts in general, nothing mild and getting where old people dont like to DD anything running that lumpy and what not.

That may be true for a NA motor, but not really for a turbo engine. Mod motor guys are making more than 2/ci on pump gas, and even more with a little methanol injection. I'd bet with a good turbo setup, these "boat anchors" would be pretty nasty. Plus the smaller bore may actually be an advantage...

Duh...but then there is the fact that a 350 would make 120+ more HP than the 305, so ti is still a waste when it is cheaper to build a 350 no matter how you look at it.

That may be true for a NA motor, but not really for a turbo engine. Mod motor guys are making more than 2/ci on pump gas, and even more with a little methanol injection. I'd bet with a good turbo setup, these "boat anchors" would be pretty nasty. Plus the smaller bore may actually be an advantage...

sounds like u got something in the fire there.
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Duh...but then there is the fact that a 350 would make 120+ more HP than the 305, so ti is still a waste when it is cheaper to build a 350 no matter how you look at it.

That's theory, not fact. It could make more power. The wild card is the bore size, which could upset the displacement difference. For a street car, I don't think there's enough of a difference to call either one a "waste."

sounds like u got something in the fire there.
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We'll see. I'm looking for a new project, I just have to pull the trigger.

That's theory, not fact. It could make more power. The wild card is the bore size, which could upset the displacement difference. For a street car, I don't think there's enough of a difference to call either one a "waste."

It is simply, bigger bore=unshrouded valves. Not theory, fact. You can get 1000 HP out of a 400 SBC with twin turbos, on pump gas. A 350 cannot do it, but a 350 can make 850 or so on 93 with twins, a 305 is about 750.

And yes, buying more expensive pistons for a 305 when a 350 is cheaper is a waste of money of max power is the concern.

There is a reason a 350 SBC is the most commonly used motor in the WORLD.:chug:

It is simply, bigger bore=unshrouded valves. Not theory, fact. You can get 1000 HP out of a 400 SBC with twin turbos, on pump gas. A 350 cannot do it, but a 350 can make 850 or so on 93 with twins, a 305 is about 750.

That may be true for a naturally aspirated engine, but a turbo engine is a whole different ballgame. The smaller bore allows a higher knock threshold, so you can run more boost/compression for a given fuel, than a larger bore. You can see this same principle applied in NHRA Top Fuel as well as the Jeg's Engine Masters Challenge. In a turbo setup, boost is the name of the game. Not necessarily good ports/big valves.


And yes, buying more expensive pistons for a 305 when a 350 is cheaper is a waste of money of max power is the concern.

There is a reason a 350 SBC is the most commonly used motor in the WORLD.:chug:

A comparable, quality, dish/reverse dome piston is going to be maybe $200 difference from shelf stock, but for the 305 it will be custom taylored for the application. The right ringpack, compression height, taper/breakover, will all be custom made for the set up. It's worth the extra change if max power is concerned. This is only if you stroke it, though. Staying with the stock stroke, pistons are no problem.

Still not going to make the power of a 350, and the point in building a 350 for power is not reasonable to me either when you can build a 383.


Not to mention...the 305 will not make the torque of the bigger engines, TQ wins races.

Not to mention...the 305 will not make the torque of the bigger engines, TQ wins races.

A turbo is a TQ multiplier, and is what KCS is intending to use from the sound of things. He can also make 1000 FWHP with a 327 useing pump gas, Inovative Turbo proved that point years ago on a twin turbo setup.

Still not going to make the power of a 350, and the point in building a 350 for power is not reasonable to me either when you can build a 383.

Not to mention...the 305 will not make the torque of the bigger engines, TQ wins races.
Sure it will. You think that displacement is the ultimate factor in making power? :eyes:

You should check out what the mod motor guys are doing with their little 281ci stuff. Even the 2V modulars put a lot of bigger engines to shame....

I have a buddy has has one of those weiand blowers on his 305, it's a 1987 LG4 roller 305but that little bastard runs good. It's got the stock internals, worked heads, cam with that weiand roots blower and will put a new mustang GT to shame. It's in a third gen camaro. I don't know what numbers it puts down, my SS will eat it for lunch but for what it is the car will move. I'm sure a person could get some good power out of one, I'd be interested to see a turbo'd 400+ hp 305. Give it a shot!

Sure it will. You think that displacement is the ultimate factor in making power? :eyes:


No, but it is a major player, you dont see 496 BBC motors running with 540s and 565s, just like there is a reason no one uses a 305 for real competition.

You you can make power, bit anything will, there is a saying:

"You can take junk, and make it fast, but in the end all you have is fast junk."

No knocking you all the way, but for christ sake, why would you even want to argue that a 305 can make the power of a 350, bigger cubes, bigger valves...it all come into play. A smaller engine can make as much as a bigger engine, if it spins high enough, but you spin that bigger motor just as high with the proper matched components, you still have more power than the smaller engine. This is of course speaking of the same motor design.(ie:5.0/5.7/6.6:LS1/LS2/LS7:4.6/5.4) So, tell the guys on this site a fucking LS1 will make as much or more power than a LS7 and you will get flames to shit...maybe banned.

Depends on what kinda budget your working with. If your pretty tight with money, put the right parts into it and you can have a fun setup. If you got money to burn, with the prices of 350 2 or 4 bolt main blocks, your better off. What do I know though, my post count and itrader isn't that high.

know a guy that had a 630rwhp fox body with a 302.
howver a 5.0 windsor comes with a 4.00 bore, and the guy had some ford racing alum. heads, with cobra intake, made the power thru a th400
and t76 turbo

No, but it is a major player, you dont see 496 BBC motors running with 540s and 565s, just like there is a reason no one uses a 305 for real competition.

Sure it is, but it's role is greatly reduced with forced induction. Even the import guys are making 1000hp with 3L I6's. No reason a 305 Chevy would be a "waste" like everyone thinks it is. IMO, that's ignorant thinking. Like I said earlier, we are not talking "real competition," we're talking street cars. I don't think there's enough of a difference between the two to be concerned about for a turbo street car.


You you can make power, bit anything will, there is a saying:

"You can take junk, and make it fast, but in the end all you have is fast junk."


Back when our country was just getting started, someone said:

"Experience must be our only guide. Reason may mislead us."

The point there is that commen sense isn't always true. I asked for experience, if anyone had done it before. So far, all I've gotten is reason.



No knocking you all the way, but for christ sake, why would you even want to argue that a 305 can make the power of a 350, bigger cubes, bigger valves...it all come into play. A smaller engine can make as much as a bigger engine, if it spins high enough, but you spin that bigger motor just as high with the proper matched components, you still have more power than the smaller engine. This is of course speaking of the same motor design.(ie:5.0/5.7/6.6:LS1/LS2/LS7:4.6/5.4) So, tell the guys on this site a fucking LS1 will make as much or more power than a LS7 and you will get flames to shit...maybe banned.

I didn't want to argue, you did. I asked if anyone has done, not how it could compare to a 350. YOU brought that up, not me.

I never even mentioned RPM, I am only taking into consideration displacement and boost. Valve sizes are negligable for a turbo motor. Port flow is negligable. Swirl/tumble/quench/etc...all negligable when you have an air compressor cramming air through the inlet. I'd even venture to say that as far as a turbo motor is concerned, the most important aspects of the cylinder head is valve, guide, and seat material.

With that said, sure, it is possible an LS1 could make as much or more than an LS7. It all depends. :engarde:

Depends on what kinda budget your working with. If your pretty tight with money, put the right parts into it and you can have a fun setup. If you got money to burn, with the prices of 350 2 or 4 bolt main blocks, your better off. What do I know though, my post count and itrader isn't that high.

I think that makes you more credible these days, haha.

i know a stock 4.8 with upgraded springs, pump, and rod bolts made 700rwhp
and the engine dimensions for 4.8 are 3.786 x 3.268
this member on turbomustangs posted a dyno graph. of the engine.
with a 88mm turbo. it was in a truck thru auto trans.
alot of ppl didnt think the 4.8 would even turn the 88mm over. lol

i know a stock 4.8 with upgraded springs, pump, and rod bolts made 700rwhp
and the engine dimensions for 4.8 are 3.786 x 3.268
this member on turbomustangs posted a dyno graph. of the engine.
with a 88mm turbo. it was in a truck thru auto trans.
alot of ppl didnt think the 4.8 would even turn the 88mm over. lol

That's awesome! Where'd it spool up, like 4000? LOL

Sure it is, but it's role is greatly reduced with forced induction. Even the import guys are making 1000hp with 3L I6's. No reason a 305 Chevy would be a "waste" like everyone thinks it is. IMO, that's ignorant thinking. Like I said earlier, we are not talking "real competition," we're talking street cars. I don't think there's enough of a difference between the two to be concerned about for a turbo street car.



Back when our country was just getting started, someone said:

"Experience must be our only guide. Reason may mislead us."

The point there is that commen sense isn't always true. I asked for experience, if anyone had done it before. So far, all I've gotten is reason.




I didn't want to argue, you did. I asked if anyone has done, not how it could compare to a 350. YOU brought that up, not me.

I never even mentioned RPM, I am only taking into consideration displacement and boost. Valve sizes are negligable for a turbo motor. Port flow is negligable. Swirl/tumble/quench/etc...all negligable when you have an air compressor cramming air through the inlet. I'd even venture to say that as far as a turbo motor is concerned, the most important aspects of the cylinder head is valve, guide, and seat material.

With that said, sure, it is possible an LS1 could make as much or more than an LS7. It all depends. :engarde:

Show me a I6 import making 1k HP on pump gas, i fucking dare you.

There is a reason no one does much with a 305, it is that simple. It is a waste, no matter how you look at it when power is a goal, so, not considering the valves, and all the other bullshit like you said, cubic inches makes more power, especially in this case, the only upside i can give a 305 over a 350 is a lighter piston, big fucking deal.

BTW, a LS7 can make 750 FWHP or more on all motor, lets see you do it with a LS1...not going to happen. Lets see your stupid bullshit about boosting the shit out of it to make what a boosted LS7 could do...you got a broken ass block. Good luck with figuring that out too.


Thought it was negligible not negligable.

Show me a I6 import making 1k HP on pump gas, i fucking dare you.

Show me where I said that was with pump gas...I fucking dare you. :D


There is a reason no one does much with a 305, it is that simple. It is a waste, no matter how you look at it when power is a goal, so, not considering the valves, and all the other bullshit like you said, cubic inches makes more power, especially in this case, the only upside i can give a 305 over a 350 is a lighter piston, big fucking deal.

Don't forget the smaller bore. Unless, you don't know.....

I think the reason no one uses a 305 is because of ignorance, and I think you're proving that for me. You can make more power than you'd ever need with either one for a street car, so it REALLY doesn't matter. After that it's more of a question of which block is stronger or has less core shift, IF you can get that power to the ground. Or if you're trying to win a burnout contest.


BTW, a LS7 can make 750 FWHP or more on all motor, lets see you do it with a LS1...not going to happen. Lets see your stupid bullshit about boosting the shit out of it to make what a boosted LS7 could do...you got a broken ass block. Good luck with figuring that out too.

LOL, like I said...it all depends. I've seen an LS6 make 780hp to the tires on motor. It depends on the setup. The LS7 has it's drawbacks, which the LS1 can take advatange of. Once boost comes into play, it's a whole new ballgame. You do understand why titanium parts are BAD in extreme heat situations...right?


Thought it was negligible not negligable.

It sure is! Thanks.

Well shit, we are talking street cars, pump fuel, anything can make 1000 HP with tons of boost and and the fuel to keep it going.

If you do the same thing to a 305 and a 350, high dollar parts and all, you are simply fucking nuts to think a 305 will hold a candle stick to it in the short or long run. Then you are kicking yourself in the nuts saying that a 305 will do fine for the street when a 350 will last longer at the power level you want, less wear on internal parts.
You know there is a reason there are engine size restrictions in every class that runs power adders for a reason right? Because more cubes makes more power.


Shit, if if was a fifth of vodka, you would be dead from alcohol poisoning.

Well shit, we are talking street cars, pump fuel, anything can make 1000 HP with tons of boost and and the fuel to keep it going.

If you do the same thing to a 305 and a 350, high dollar parts and all, you are simply fucking nuts to think a 305 will hold a candle stick to it in the short or long run. Then you are kicking yourself in the nuts saying that a 305 will do fine for the street when a 350 will last longer at the power level you want, less wear on internal parts.
You know there is a reason there are engine size restrictions in every class that runs power adders for a reason right? Because more cubes makes more power.

Oh, I guess you're not familiar with Outlaw 10.5 racing:

Rules (http://www.outlawracing.com/THERULEBOOKS/OUTLAW105RULES/tabid/65/Default.aspx)
Engine
Any engine size allowed. Limited to single automotive type engine.
No C drive screw blowers allowed
The Max overdrive on any blower combination max 100 percent
Turbo combination limited to 91 mm any turbo over 91 mm must have approved reducer of 91mm

It seems they have NO LIMIT on engine size, but wait....they limit the power adder??!! :punch:

Like I said, for a street car, I don't think there is enough of a difference. Taking into account the 350's displacement advantage and the 305's ability to take more boost, I think it would be negligible, and neither would have much of an advantage over the other.


Shit, if if was a fifth of vodka, you would be dead from alcohol poisoning.
If *what* was a fifth of vodka?

305 better in ANY way to a 350? hahahahaha why do you think 90% of third-gens are slow? because they have a 305, that cannot compete with a 350, dollar for dollar, part for part, psi for psi. if you have a 305, cool boost it till it explodes, and then, for LESS money than it takes to build a 305 because 305 parts cost more than 350 parts, yes its true - been there, build a 350 that will outperform the 305 you could have built and still save money.

a 305 take more boost? at what boost level does that come into play? 30+? like you'll EVER get that high anyways.

and before ANYONE says a 305 is a "unique" thing, look at this:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/sailtexas186548/inspiration-unique-fork.jpg :secret2:

Well said, even if a 305 could take more boost, you will never put it in a situation to find out.

Here are your Ebay pistons.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=forged+305+pistons&_sacat=See-All-Categories

None worth a shit, so the extra money for some is going to be hard to find i guess for something to actually stay alive with boost...there goes that money thing again.

There are some out there i am sure...cannot wait to see the price.

305 better in ANY way to a 350? hahahahaha why do you think 90% of third-gens are slow? because they have a 305, that cannot compete with a 350, dollar for dollar, part for part, psi for psi. if you have a 305, cool boost it till it explodes, and then, for LESS money than it takes to build a 305 because 305 parts cost more than 350 parts, yes its true - been there, build a 350 that will outperform the 305 you could have built and still save money.

a 305 take more boost? at what boost level does that come into play? 30+? like you'll EVER get that high anyways.

and before ANYONE says a 305 is a "unique" thing, look at this:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/sailtexas186548/inspiration-unique-fork.jpg :secret2:

Cute picture. Again, all I hear is reason. The 305's smaller bore would allow more boost, or compression, for ANY given fuel. Where a 4" bore would detonate, the 3.756" would not. I thought this was a well known FACT...

Looking at experience, and the power levels the modular fords are making with their small ~3.5" bore, I see no reason to assume a 305 would be a waste to put money into. Experience shows that a sub 350ci engine can make more than enough power for a pump gas street car, even with small bores, but you guys act like there is some invisible wall, or unrelenting law of physics, that says a 305 will not make power. But I don't really see any good arguements to prove your point.

I didnt say it wouldnt make power, it is just cheaper and more cost efficient to build a 350, not to mention READILY available parts. <<<----there is my point.

You gotta be driving a fuckin honda.

Reminds me of a friends response to a joke about his genitals, he stated,"Its not the cubic inches, its the bore and the stroke."


Lets see this better smaller 305 make more power than a 454 with a turbo? What is your answer to that?

Here are your Ebay pistons.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=forged+305+pistons&_sacat=See-All-Categories

None worth a shit, so the extra money for some is going to be hard to find i guess for something to actually stay alive with boost...there goes that money thing again.

There are some out there i am sure...cannot wait to see the price.

Haha, is that where you shop for pistons? Ebay!? Haha, that explains a lot.

Actually, I am pretty sure I had said "custom", but luckily since it's a SBC, it won't be all that custom or expensive. Basically the same as a dish/reverse dome piston for a 383, but in a 3.756" bore size. All the "engineering" involved would basically be taking the CAD rendering of their low compression 383 piston, and scale it down. Haven't priced it, but I really don't think it would be that much extra. It's not a total redesign or anything.

Well, MFSOB, i cannot find decent slugs for a 305 anywhere...shit, i thought i would find something off the shelf somewhere.

You still didnt respond to the fact i didnt say it wouldnt make power. Or if it would make more power than a 454, how about a 400 SBC?

Just still dont get why you think a 305 will make more power, under any conditions other than a 350 having a disadvantage of shittier parts.

I didnt say it wouldnt make power, it is just cheaper and more cost efficient to build a 350, not to mention READILY available parts. <<<----there is my point.

You gotta be driving a fuckin honda.

I'm pretty sure you described it as "a waste," "boat anchor," "junk." I think you're wrong...that's my point. Remember, I just came to ask if anyone has made any power with a 305 Chevy. You are the one who immediately felt the need to interject your ignorance.

This was my opinion, i have sunk money into them, and it didnt pay off.


Well, assuming the logic of 1.5 HP per cube, 400 HP is not impossible, but a 350 will make 450. Other than that, boat anchor.


So go build a fuckin 262 V8 since it would make even more power you special fella.

Coulda swore you said something about "experience".

This was my opinion, i have sunk money into them, and it didnt pay off.

So go build a fuckin 262 V8 since it would make even more power you special fella.

Your comprehension skills are almost as bad as your reasoning, I never said it will make more power. I said it COULD. Remember when I said it all depends?

A 305 Chevy has enough potential to make for a pretty nasty street engine. You need to have a pretty decent knowledge of automotive engines to realize that. You obviously don't. It's not the best, baddest, most efficient, whatever, but it's certainly not a boat anchor. Ignorance is ignoring.

Man, go build your 305 and waste money on it. Sure you want to be different just like the other guys who dumped money in their 305s and now regret it. Take some advice from guys that have actually owned them and do a 350 or bigger. I gave my 305 away for free because I knew that it wasn't worth much.

do a search on thirdgen.org for Willie. he's running a splayed capped 305 tpi with twins...and i believe his pistons are JE's..."APBA" i believe is the line, as in American Power Boat Association, where they have classes that limit you to a 305, with blowers and such :D

and i built a 423hp 305 n/a a few years back, and it went faster than every one of Zones builds to date if i remember correctly :)

an engine builder once told me it doesnt matter the cubic inch of the motor if its boosted.
give him a day with 2 different cubic inch motors, and he will have the lesser motor making the same power as the larger motor.
case in point, tommy brewer ran limited street in his SVO with only a 363 inch motor and an f3, and was spanking guys running 4-500 inch boosted motors.
thanks for the link to this thread, btw. its quite entertaining.

do a search on thirdgen.org for Willie. he's running a splayed capped 305 tpi with twins...and i believe his pistons are JE's..."APBA" i believe is the line, as in American Power Boat Association, where they have classes that limit you to a 305, with blowers and such :D

and i built a 423hp 305 n/a a few years back, and it went faster than every one of Zones builds to date if i remember correctly :)

423hp all motor, not bad!

Just about everyone makes pistons for a stock stroke 305, but no one makes a stroker piston. I can understand, as it is probably not common, but I don't think it'd be too much to get some done.

Keith Black has a 2618 alloy forged piston made for them that is for a 3.75" stroke crank and has a 10cc dish to it. If you are useing 5.7" rods the part # is KB834 and if you have a 6" rod it is KB835. Then all you need is your bore size that you want to finish the part # off http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=440 . They should have them on the shelf and ready to ship for you. I use this stroker combo in a certain circle track class where I'm very limited for total cubic inches, and yes it does make more HP & TQ than the other 350's in this same class!! But hell bigger is always better, right.........:bang::bang::ripped:


EDIT: I gave this info out in another thread that we bolth replied to.

Actually, they make a 335 stroker piston. Didnt i tell you 400 HP is not impossible, especially at 1.5 HP per cube? I was speaking NA.

do a search on thirdgen.org for Willie. he's running a splayed capped 305 tpi with twins...and i believe his pistons are JE's..."APBA" i believe is the line, as in American Power Boat Association, where they have classes that limit you to a 305, with blowers and such :D

and i built a 423hp 305 n/a a few years back, and it went faster than every one of Zones builds to date if i remember correctly :)

My 1000$ 383 made about 500 HP with 9.6 to 1 compression, so i doubt that.

Your comprehension skills are almost as bad as your reasoning, I never said it will make more power. I said it COULD. Remember when I said it all depends?


Goes both ways there buddy, i we both have valid statements, but you are not listening to what i am saying. I simply told you ONCE AGAIN that HP per dollar, it is not efficient. And efficiency is important, you must be a honda owner...or a ricer rather. I understand taking something you have and running with it, but the cubes are just there for a 350, not to mention the aftermarket support. More air and fuel being burnt means more power.


Come on, tell me the 305 can make as much as a 400 SBC? Or a bigger motor, i am still waiting.



an engine builder once told me it doesnt matter the cubic inch of the motor if its boosted.
give him a day with 2 different cubic inch motors, and he will have the lesser motor making the same power as the larger motor.
case in point, tommy brewer ran limited street in his SVO with only a 363 inch motor and an f3, and was spanking guys running 4-500 inch boosted motors.
thanks for the link to this thread, btw. its quite entertaining.

Now are we talking Power to weight ratio? Lets stick with the same weight car and drive line.

Well I gave you a manufacture on the first page to look at. Keith Black has a 2618 alloy forged piston made for them that is for a 3.75" stroke crank and has a 10cc dish to it. If you are useing 5.7" rods the part # is KB834 and if you have a 6" rod it is KB835. Then all you need is your bore size that you want to finish the part # off http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=440 . They should have them on the shelf and ready to ship for you. I use this stroker combo in a certain circle track class where I'm very limited for total cubic inches, and yes it does make more HP & TQ than the other 350's in this same class!! But hell bigger is always better, right.........:bang::bang::ripped:

We are speaking of strokers now right? Last i checked the 350 SBC can be easily stroked to 396, so lets not get into that now shall we.:gtfo:

We are speaking of strokers now right? Last i checked the 350 SBC can be easily stroked to 396, so lets not get into that now shall we.:gtfo:

The limit of total cubic inches for that class is 360, so much for your stroker you are talking about JACKASS!!!!!!

Sometimes when you are so wrapped up in yourself, you can not see that you are being a fucktard.

Keith Black has a 2618 alloy forged piston made for them that is for a 3.75" stroke crank and has a 10cc dish to it. If you are useing 5.7" rods the part # is KB834 and if you have a 6" rod it is KB835. Then all you need is your bore size that you want to finish the part # off http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=440 . They should have them on the shelf and ready to ship for you. I use this stroker combo in a certain circle track class where I'm very limited for total cubic inches, and yes it does make more HP & TQ than the other 350's in this same class!! But hell bigger is always better, right.........:bang::bang::ripped:


EDIT: I gave this info out in another thread that we bolth replied to.

Thank you sir!! You are the man! :chug:

How much do they usually run? Around $500-600 or so?

Um besides the bashing and utter stupidity. you can build a 305 a number of different ways. But since this wont happen ever. I want to see this 500 horse 305.

Actually, they make a 335 stroker piston. Didnt i tell you 400 HP is not impossible, especially at 1.5 HP per cube? I was speaking NA.

I mentioned a turbo in the opening post...why would you talk naturally aspirated?


Goes both ways there buddy, i we both have valid statements, but you are not listening to what i am saying. I simply told you ONCE AGAIN that HP per dollar, it is not efficient. And efficiency is important, you must be a honda owner...or a ricer rather. I understand taking something you have and running with it, but the cubes are just there for a 350, not to mention the aftermarket support. More air and fuel being burnt means more power.

No, YOU are not comprehending very well. This is intended for a street car. I've said this three times now? Maybe four? I don't think there is enough of a difference to make any significant impact! They both have advantages, and disadvantages. In the end, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, bolt for bolt, I don't think there is enough of a difference to make either better or worse! By the time you get to a point where the 350 is THAT much more powerful, or the 305 is THAT much less unreliable, it's beyond the scope of a streetcar.

You have this narrow minded thought process that tells you small bore = bad! You probably still think you can see a engine's A/F ratio with EGT's! That was a common misconception rampant 20-30 years ago, and it still is today, even though there are tremendous volumes of information out there to prove otherwise. Remeber what I said, "reason may mislead us."


Come on, tell me the 305 can make as much as a 400 SBC? Or a bigger motor, i am still waiting.


IT CAN! Look at the 360ci NMRA Hot Street motors. They're making well over 800hp on the engine dyno. That's close to double that of what your average 400+ci motors make, and even more than a lot of 470-500ci Big Blocks. I said this before, and I'll say it again...it all depends.

Um besides the bashing and utter stupidity. you can build a 305 a number of different ways. But since this wont happen ever. I want to see this 500 horse 305.

Never say never...

i just took the link over here from thirdgen.org. this is pretty amusing...i think it's impractical to try to wring all this power out of a 305, but i don't think it's impossible...take it for what its worth, but look over at club rsx--it's not uncommon to see a 700+ hp k series, but they're boosted to kingdom come- and yes, most claim to run pump gas.

NHRA Super Stock! I personally know a guy, Larry Hodge, who runs a Monte Carlo 310ci, 416 casting heads 1.84/1.50 manley valves, +.700" lift solid roller, flattop pistons, 7800RPM shifts, 8700 across the stripe...6.50s at 105mph or something like that at out local 1/8 track. Idk about the 1/4 but he said when all said and done that it should go 10.30's or so.

Heads must maintain stock valve sizes and runner VOLUMES...BUT the use of epoxy is allowed. The runner is FULLY PORTED at the stock 163cc volume!

538hp!!!!....575+hp could be had ALL DAY at 13:1 with a REAL head on it!:devil:
BUTTTTT....a 383ci would make 675HP!!!! a 406ci would make 700...

Now are we talking Power to weight ratio? Lets stick with the same weight car and drive line.
im talking engine dyno, power for power. but the same applys in a chassis as well.
horsepower to weight ratio..... reminds me of johnny ricer. funny stuff!
im pissed at myself cause i posted in this thread.
thanks for the link.
:devil:

I think this would be interesting as a 305 will run forever as long as you take care of them. My old thirdgen had 211,000 on it and still ran strong. Now when it comes to boost doesn't a 305 use the same crank and rods as a 350? Same stroke correct? Most stock 305's also run around 8.5:1 compression too correct? Boost friendly compression stock for the most part. I've never seen a bad ass 305 but I'd be open to the possibility however if it was me I'd just build a 350. My 305 in my truck won't pull a dead whore out of bed and it's mildly built. They just don't make the torque the larger cubed motors make. Anyway.......... continue conversation...........

I remember a while back Hotrod magazine did a dyno shootout between two motors of about the same size, one was a large bore short stroke motor the other was a long stroke small bore. Both motors made almost identical horse power and torque numbers. I'll dig around and see if I can find that article.

Also check out Hotrod's pump gas drags or their Dragweek and see the motors those guys are running. Some of the smaller motors are out running the bigger ones, it all has to do with your combo and making sure it all works together.

Build that 305 and shut some of these people up.

OP must be the biggest fucking expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!

I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.

Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.

Now don't get all pissy either thinking i'm bashing you. it's just smarter to go with the 350.

If i was gonna turbo a honda i would much rather boost a K20A2 then a B16A. bigger, stronger crank/rods, ect.

I mentioned a turbo in the opening post...why would you talk naturally aspirated?



No, YOU are not comprehending very well. This is intended for a street car. I've said this three times now? Maybe four? I don't think there is enough of a difference to make any significant impact! They both have advantages, and disadvantages. In the end, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, bolt for bolt, I don't think there is enough of a difference to make either better or worse! By the time you get to a point where the 350 is THAT much more powerful, or the 305 is THAT much less unreliable, it's beyond the scope of a streetcar.

You have this narrow minded thought process that tells you small bore = bad! You probably still think you can see a engine's A/F ratio with EGT's! That was a common misconception rampant 20-30 years ago, and it still is today, even though there are tremendous volumes of information out there to prove otherwise. Remeber what I said, "reason may mislead us."



IT CAN! Look at the 360ci NMRA Hot Street motors. They're making well over 800hp on the engine dyno. That's close to double that of what your average 400+ci motors make, and even more than a lot of 470-500ci Big Blocks. I said this before, and I'll say it again...it all depends.

Alright, i am sorry you did not understand my first post, i was speaking of NA, i understand your speaking of boost. My original post was on NA terms.

A 305 is not as reliable when the ci is concerned since more boost is usually required to make the same power, wearing more on parts. Just how i am looking at it, that is what i comprehend.

NEVER DID I MENTION SMALL BORE BEING BAD A 350 has a smaller bore than a 400, i am no nocking it.

A for comparing a small motor making as much as a bigger motor like NMRA, it is because the smaller motor is spinning more RPM, yes, RPM makes more power if the induction supports it. You dont see a honda civic making 500 HP at 5500 RPM on motor, no matter how you slice it.

We seriously need to meet up and speak face to face, we are on different pages. I dont know as much about boosted application as i do N2O and NA. Allot of what i know comes from building NA/nitrous motors.

As far as boost, i have never sen a smallr motor make more power with the same mods, YES, a smaller motor can make more power than a bigger bubed motor if they are not on the same field, 30 lbs of boost on a 305 should make more than a 350 on 15. That is how i am understanding what you are saying, am i right?

The limit of total cubic inches for that class is 360, so much for your stroker you are talking about JACKASS!!!!!!

He never mentioned a stroked engine ASS HOE.:engarde::jest:

538hp!!!!....575+hp could be had ALL DAY at 13:1 with a REAL head on it!:devil:
BUTTTTT....a 383ci would make 675HP!!!! a 406ci would make 700...


Exactly.


I think this would be interesting as a 305 will run forever as long as you take care of them. My old thirdgen had 211,000 on it and still ran strong. Now when it comes to boost doesn't a 305 use the same crank and rods as a 350? Same stroke correct? Most stock 305's also run around 8.5:1 compression too correct? Boost friendly compression stock for the most part. I've never seen a bad ass 305 but I'd be open to the possibility however if it was me I'd just build a 350. My 305 in my truck won't pull a dead whore out of bed and it's mildly built. They just don't make the torque the larger cubed motors make. Anyway.......... continue conversation...........

Shit, my 94 GMC 350 has 280k miles, no smoke and runs like new.

305 uses shorter rods.

Same stroke.


There was a car craft in and out list i remember from a while back, something like:

In: GM has produced over millions of 350s over the years that can be had for next to nothing.

Out: There is some guy out there rebuilding a 305.

[QUOTE=ZONES89RS;11395214]

305 uses shorter rods.

Same stroke.


QUOTE]
fasle.
305 uses a 5.7 rod.
rod has nothing to do with cubic inches.
maybe you are thinking 400. 5.65 rod.

Exactly.




Shit, my 94 GMC 350 has 280k miles, no smoke and runs like new.

305 uses shorter rods.

Same stroke.


There was a car craft in and out list i remember from a while back, something like:

In: GM has produced over millions of 350s over the years that can be had for next to nothing.

Out: There is some guy out there rebuilding a 305.

400ci is what uses the shorter rods...305ci's use 5.7" long connecting rods as does the 350ci. 400ci uses 5.565" rods.

OP must be the biggest fucking expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!

I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.

Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.


Agreed x 2

My 1000$ 383 made about 500 HP with 9.6 to 1 compression, so i doubt that.


can you produce a timeslip for me? i'm betting it's all the same low 8 second runs you posted about on tgo...my 305 has been 7.81...

With the 2.73 gears it was a 8.3 seconds in the 1/8th. With 4.10s at the 1/4 it was 7.4 in the 1/8th and 11.89 in the 1/4.:chug:



fasle.
305 uses a 5.7 rod.
rod has nothing to do with cubic inches.
maybe you are thinking 400. 5.65 rod.

Yea, i was mixing with the 400, excuse me.

I remember a while back Hotrod magazine did a dyno shootout between two motors of about the same size, one was a large bore short stroke motor the other was a long stroke small bore. Both motors made almost identical horse power and torque numbers. I'll dig around and see if I can find that article.

Also check out Hotrod's pump gas drags or their Dragweek and see the motors those guys are running. Some of the smaller motors are out running the bigger ones, it all has to do with your combo and making sure it all works together.

Build that 305 and shut some of these people up.

Yeah I saw that, I think it was a couple of BBC's.

OP must be the biggest fucking expert on 305s, and cars in general at that, in the world!!!

I can honestly say that out of the few good shops i've worked at (latemodelracecraft for one)i have never seen a 305 come in unless it was to swap out with a 350+.. LMR by the way has a 116MM turbo so don't try bringing boost up with me.

Zane, not everyones brain is setup to accept logic.

Haha, have you even graduated yet? :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Alright, i am sorry you did not understand my first post, i was speaking of NA, i understand your speaking of boost. My original post was on NA terms.

A 305 is not as reliable when the ci is concerned since more boost is usually required to make the same power, wearing more on parts. Just how i am looking at it, that is what i comprehend

NEVER DID I MENTION SMALL BORE BEING BAD A 350 has a smaller bore than a 400, i am no nocking it.

Let me try to get you over here on the same page. I'm not saying the 350 can't make more power than the 305. I'm not saying that the 305 can't make more power than the 350 either. I'm saying that the difference is negligible for a streetcar on pump gas. Before you see any distinct advantage from either one, you'll be beyond what a streetcar could use, making it moot. A 305 vs. a 502 is a different story, but between a 305/335 and a 350/383, I really don't think it matters.


A for comparing a small motor making as much as a bigger motor like NMRA, it is because the smaller motor is spinning more RPM, yes, RPM makes more power if the induction supports it. You dont see a honda civic making 500 HP at 5500 RPM on motor, no matter how you slice it.

We seriously need to meet up and speak face to face, we are on different pages. I dont know as much about boosted application as i do N2O and NA. Allot of what i know comes from building NA/nitrous motors.

Sure, I practically live in The Woodlands. I go to MoCo full time. Maybe I'll see ya at a Friday night meet.


As far as boost, i have never sen a smallr motor make more power with the same mods, YES, a smaller motor can make more power than a bigger bubed motor if they are not on the same field, 30 lbs of boost on a 305 should make more than a 350 on 15. That is how i am understanding what you are saying, am i right?

Like I said, it all depends. I don't think the displacement advantage of a 350 is enough to make a difference when the smaller bore of the 305 can take more cylinder pressure for any given octane.

My hypothesis would be that if I built a 383ci motor and a 333ci motor, both 10:1 CR, same turbos, both ran 93 octane, the power output would be close. VERY close. While the 383 has an advantage of 50ci, it will detonate sooner than the 333. I think that the difference would be enough to upset that displacement advantage.

Hell, if someone GAVE me the 305, there's your winner right there.

So you dont think the extra 50 cubes makes sense to have for a aggressive street machine on boost? I mean, even if a 350 is more prone to detonate, you do not exactly have to push it as hard with as much boost anyways though right?

Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.

Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...


I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.

So you dont think the extra 50 cubes makes sense to have for a aggressive street machine on boost? I mean, even if a 350 is more prone to detonate, you do not exactly have to push it as hard with as much boost anyways though right?

Now i would like to see a comparo of this nature not for the HP, but to see what the torque difference would be.

Now, i have sprayed a stock 305 roller motor with a 200 shot for a long time till the fuel pup went bad, and i am sure you can figure out what happened from there...

I wont even build a 350 when it is the same price to build a 383, and honestly, the 396 kits are getting cheaper by the day.

Sure the 50ci makes sense, but doesn't more boost as well?

In the grande scheme of things, it really doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference. Just compare the mod motors and the LSx stuff. It seems like there really isn't that much of a power difference. Plenty of twin turbo 4.6L Fords are making ~1000hp on pump gas. You'd think all these 408-454ci LSx's should be making 1200-1800hp, but they make about the same power. Steve Morris, on the other hand, is upwards of 1600hp, but that's with nearly 600ci. At that power level, your average streetcar is really only good for roll racing, anyways.

Sure the 50ci makes sense, but doesn't more boost as well?

In the grande scheme of things, it really doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference. Just compare the mod motors and the LSx stuff. It seems like there really isn't that much of a power difference. Plenty of twin turbo 4.6L Fords are making ~1000hp on pump gas. You'd think all these 408-454ci LSx's should be making 1200-1800hp, but they make about the same power. Steve Morris, on the other hand, is upwards of 1600hp, but that's with nearly 600ci. At that power level, your average streetcar is really only good for roll racing, anyways.

Which is why I like mustangs so much....They do as much with less....Rev to 7k without a rough idle...You can have "stock" sounding mustang making 300-1000+ hp...The 4.6 DOHC anyway.

Well, i never see mod motors run worth a damn on motor, and IF they do, they have WAY TOO much money in them. On the boost side, yea, the cobra runs well in 03/04, but i see H/C/I LS1s pull them if they only have a few bolt ons, they cost so much more anyways.

The LS1 block is just not reliable for high boost, but the 6.0 and other bigger engones do way better, a LS7 should hit 1400 HP on pump gas i believe if set up right on a twin setup.

Damn mod motors are pricey, and i hate seing anyone with a 2v blow their motor up and put another 2v 4.6 in it when there are TONS of 5.4s out there.

I just want to see this NA 470 horse 305 daily driver engine on pump gas

You could get one to engine dyno that much NA, but after installation in a car, the belt system, and all the other nice drive line parts will probably get it down to the 330 RWHP, give or take which parts are used.

Thank you sir!! You are the man! :chug:

How much do they usually run? Around $500-600 or so?

Here is a quick internet link for ya, http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=19041&CtgID= .

That would be the ony way to build it, with 6.0 rods, IF i was to bother with one.

Here is a quick internet link for ya, http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/product.asp?ProdID=19041&CtgID= .

That's awesome. That's probably 100g lighter than most 4.00+ forged pistons, cheap too. Thanks again.

BTW KCS, i used a set of those KB forged line series, i dont know about what your doing, but for me, my NA 383 had no issues with them, screamed to 7k.

BTW KCS, i used a set of those KB forged line series, i dont know about what your doing, but for me, my NA 383 had no issues with them, screamed to 7k.

I'm sure they're OK, but the 1.133" compression has me worried for a turbo engine. With 1/16" rings, doesn't seem like there would be enough room to keep them far enough away from the combustion heat. :confused:

That is what i was thinking, it worked fine for my NA application though.

I'm sure they're OK, but the 1.133" compression has me worried for a turbo engine. With 1/16" rings, doesn't seem like there would be enough room to keep them far enough away from the combustion heat. :confused:

so u going thru with the build?
mpt70 and mpt76 are pretty good priced t4 turbos, spool pretty quick, excellent price.

I'm sure they're OK, but the 1.133" compression has me worried for a turbo engine. With 1/16" rings, doesn't seem like there would be enough room to keep them far enough away from the combustion heat. :confused:

The piston's are strong enough for you. How much boost are you planning to run with this build? If it's less than 15 lbs. then you will still be ok, but if its more than that you will need to use the 5.7 rod combo.

so u going thru with the build?
mpt70 and mpt76 are pretty good priced t4 turbos, spool pretty quick, excellent price.

Looks that way. I just got a cam/springs/retainers/etc. for my LS1, so it may be next month until I can get some cash for a 3rd gen F body.

I thought T4's were a smaller turbos, something more common on 4 bangers. I was thinking of a single turbo off a diesel or something. Build the longblock like a brick house, and just max out the turbo.

The piston's are strong enough for you. How much boost are you planning to run with this build? If it's less than 15 lbs. then you will still be ok, but if its more than that you will need to use the 5.7 rod combo.

I'm sure the piston will be strong enough, but I don't know if that 1.133" compression height will allow the 1/16 rings to be far away enough from the combustion heat. 1.133" is something you'd see for a NA motor, 1.300+ is more common for turbo/nitrous motors.

I'm sure the piston will be strong enough, but I don't know if that 1.133" compression height will allow the 1/16 rings to be far away enough from the combustion heat. 1.133" is something you'd see for a NA motor, 1.300+ is more common for turbo/nitrous motors.

Yes I do know this, however I was still talking about a turbo application. I have had several discussions with the tech people at Ross & JE about a high boost 327 combo for a customer of mine. At 30 lbs of boost they said that I could still run a 1.25" compression height piston & be safe. If I were you I would contact Silvolite, since they make the piston, and find out what they say the limitations are for the piston application at hand.

Looks that way. I just got a cam/springs/retainers/etc. for my LS1, so it may be next month until I can get some cash for a 3rd gen F body.

I thought T4's were a smaller turbos, something more common on 4 bangers. I was thinking of a single turbo off a diesel or something. Build the longblock like a brick house, and just max out the turbo.

T4 refers to the mounting flange of the turbine housing,