Automotive News, Media & Press - This could be bad news for the Volt

With an estimated $40K price tag.... this could be bad news for the Volt.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2344243,00.asp

One of the world's first electric car makers dating back to 1907 is under new management and poised to thrust itself back into the EV market.

Revived last year with the help of China Youngman Automotive Group and the ZAP brand, Detroit Electric has teamed up with the Malaysian auto company PROTON to produce a series of affordable electric cars.

The company plans to employ its patented electric drive system along with long-lasting Li-ion batteries, utilizing two Proton vehicle platforms. This scheme, Detroit Electric says, should yield 270,000 "Pure Electric Vehicles", manufactured in India and sold in Europe, UK, China and the United States.

These days the electric car movement, dominated by posh, sporty celebrities like the Fisker Karma and the upcoming Tesla sedan, boasts countless fans, but few real drivers. This new partnership could change that with new, family-friendly EVs priced between $23,000 and $26,000 for the city range model and between $28,000 and $33,000 for the extended range model.

Learn more about the planned Detroit Electric models here. http://detroit-electric.co.uk/

In my eyes, the Tesla Roadster was kind of a flop... Why is everyone championing their supposed sedan when they had all of their setbacks?

Yea.... but the Tesla was a $100K car... or thereabouts anyway. This new sedan is is about $25K. A lot cheaper than the $40K est for the Volt.

The one advantage the Volt does still have is the supplemental gas engine.

Yea.... but the Tesla was a $100K car... or thereabouts anyway. This new sedan is is about $25K. A lot cheaper than the $40K est for the Volt.

The one advantage the Volt does still have is the supplemental gas engine.

Any company can say anything and still never deliver. I'm thinking those electric scooters that you picked up for your kids at Cosco over Christmas is what we would get from Malaysia. Last for a couple of weeks and thats it.

If its a vehicle from GM or even one of the Japanese companies, you will get a fully developed modern vehicle, something from China or Malaysia and you may be buying a Yugo.

I said from the beginning that the Volt was priced way to high.

I'll go this way or Aptera over the volt. The volt is aimed at Prius owners and the like. Problem is, at the same time the new Prius will be out. I was all about the volt until i saw this. Its fucking 2009 people. There is no reason for us to be driving so many fosil fuel powered cars. We have had the technology for a long time. I cant wait to own my first pure EV. I didnt know anything about this company, i'm excited. If GM wants to do something about its future, they should be developing a pure EV rather than a new hybrid. Its retarded. Oil tycoons are the only reason we havnt had electric cars since the 50's.

Nice post, thanks for sharing

The problem with pure electric vehicles powered by batteries is the recharging. Unless they can get the cars to be able to recharge in under a half hour, they're simply not practical, especially for use in cities. Seeing as how 90% of parking in cities is street parking, how are you going to charge the car overnight? How are you going to charge the car in the parking lot/garage while you're at work?

As James May put it, "If we make something that goes 40 yards and takes 6 hours to bring back to life, we'll have gone backwards." And that's exactly what battery powered electric cars are, a step backwards. This is why the Volt is such a big step. It provides "eco-friendly" transportation without requiring an entirely new infrastructure to be created. It's a great in-between vehicle while the hydrogen infrastructure gets built, and it's possible that the Volt lasts well into the age of hydrogen-powered commuting, because gas stations aren't going anywhere until at least 2050.

I said from the beginning that the Volt was priced way to high.
1) new technology is always priced high (think hrbrids when they first showed up)

2) GM's AWESOME UAW workers

3)part sourcing etc; that shit is comming from all over the world (LG is making the batteries)

price will go down, new things always start high

The problem with pure electric vehicles powered by batteries is the recharging. Unless they can get the cars to be able to recharge in under a half hour, they're simply not practical, especially for use in cities. Seeing as how 90% of parking in cities is street parking, how are you going to charge the car overnight? How are you going to charge the car in the parking lot/garage while you're at work?

As James May put it, "If we make something that goes 40 yards and takes 6 hours to bring back to life, we'll have gone backwards." And that's exactly what battery powered electric cars are, a step backwards. This is why the Volt is such a big step. It provides "eco-friendly" transportation without requiring an entirely new infrastructure to be created. It's a great in-between vehicle while the hydrogen infrastructure gets built, and it's possible that the Volt lasts well into the age of hydrogen-powered commuting, because gas stations aren't going anywhere until at least 2050.


The new models coming out have their place but it isn't for everyone. I think 280 miles which is the range of some of the pure electic's is fine for most people but no ideal for people going on a vacation trip...we'll see how it all plays out! I'd like to get one too!!

The problem with pure electric vehicles powered by batteries is the recharging. Unless they can get the cars to be able to recharge in under a half hour, they're simply not practical, especially for use in cities. Seeing as how 90% of parking in cities is street parking, how are you going to charge the car overnight? How are you going to charge the car in the parking lot/garage while you're at work?

As James May put it, "If we make something that goes 40 yards and takes 6 hours to bring back to life, we'll have gone backwards." And that's exactly what battery powered electric cars are, a step backwards. This is why the Volt is such a big step. It provides "eco-friendly" transportation without requiring an entirely new infrastructure to be created. It's a great in-between vehicle while the hydrogen infrastructure gets built, and it's possible that the Volt lasts well into the age of hydrogen-powered commuting, because gas stations aren't going anywhere until at least 2050.



Its a snowball effect. Thats why its failing up till now. You cant half ass it. Everyone needs to jump in becuase unless everyones helping, it will fail. And what i mean by that is that citites need to put charging docks on the streets where people park. Businesses and garages need charging docks. If everyone got on the same page, this isnt just doable, its an obvious solution.

Here, well in Sacramento and San Francisco(i jump between the two), there are charging docks everywhere. And they are the kind that charges twice as fast as the standard. Like at the Rosevill Galleria, the biggest mall around here, you can plug your car in and shop for two hours and have a 45 mile range from a dead battery. Or office buildings, you can plug in your car and the battery will reach full capacity/full charge in about 4 hours. And with these cars offered by Detroit Electric, thats 300 miles not 30. Thats exactly like filling up and i think %99 of people put there dont use an entirely full tank in one day without stopping somewhere for a few hours.

And those charging docks believe it or not are mostly left over from The EV-1, Ranger and RAV4 days. Back then everyone DID jump on it and get excited and leave it to GM and Honda to kill it. Probably why you dont see more of it now

The new models coming out have their place but it isn't for everyone. I think 280 miles which is the range of some of the pure electic's is fine for most people but no ideal for people going on a vacation trip...we'll see how it all plays out! I'd like to get one too!!

It doesnt have to all of a sudden be nothing but EV's everywhere. I think we all need to DD electric cars and save the gas guzzlers for the weekend fun and trips. Why couldnt you have an EV-1 in the garage next to the Suburban and Corvette? EV-1 gets you to work everyday and the grocery store. Corvette gets you to the beach on the weekend. Suburban gets you to family vacations.


ALTHOUGH, with gas the way it is, even at only(ha!!!) $2.50/gallon, its almost as cheap to fly. But i think we just need EV's to take care of everyday commuting until the technology has been improved enough to give us all a 1000 mile range in a 20 minute charge which i believe it will one day reach. They could always put two battery packs on deck. Or something like those portable cell phone instant charger things lol your car dies you just plug in a box that gives it an instant charge.

I'll go this way or Aptera over the volt. The volt is aimed at Prius owners and the like. Problem is, at the same time the new Prius will be out. I was all about the volt until i saw this. Its fucking 2009 people. There is no reason for us to be driving so many fosil fuel powered cars. We have had the technology for a long time. I cant wait to own my first pure EV. I didnt know anything about this company, i'm excited. If GM wants to do something about its future, they should be developing a pure EV rather than a new hybrid. Its retarded. Oil tycoons are the only reason we havnt had electric cars since the 50's.

Nice post, thanks for sharing

Whow... did those words just come from someone here on ls1tech.com. (I should have typed pl@entlsx.com just to see the word filter change it. LOL!!!)

Anyway.... I can't say I wouldn't mind owning a EV for around town running.... but it certainly could not ever be a replacement for a regular car.... at least not yet.

As one poster hit on.... until recharge times and/or range gets improved a purely EV is DOA.

I would consider buying one as a commuter car if they were dead reliable and charged in a few hrs time. I like the idea of the reserve gas engine though, what if you can find a charging station/safe place within the 150mi range of the other full EV's? I like the 350-400 mi range knowing that all i need to do to keep going is put a couple gallons of regular gas into my generator. :D

I do like the Idea of the hydrogen honda though, issue with that is how many hyrdo fill station do you honestly see around town?

I am planning on buying the volt or any equivelant BEV vehicle that will be around in 2012. I live in L.A. and commuting is a bitch and fuel prices last summer when I was getting 8mpg was not fun. I'm all for EV's and after watching that documentary "who killed the electric car" last winter I'm a definite believer in their viability for most people. If anyone hasn't watched it I recommend you do, we had the technology 10 years ago let alone 18 years ago when the EV1 came out.

All of these upstarts make wild, wild claims and it hardly ever materializes into what they say it will. In fact none of these cars (including the Volt) are proven to work as advertised.

The technology and affordability for producing a viable electric car (meaning they work as well and as efficientily as our gasoline cars) is so far off, and may even never happen. You guys put way too much stock in stories like this.

I am planning on buying the volt or any equivelant BEV vehicle that will be around in 2012. I live in L.A. and commuting is a bitch and fuel prices last summer when I was getting 8mpg was not fun. I'm all for EV's and after watching that documentary "who killed the electric car" last winter I'm a definite believer in their viability for most people. If anyone hasn't watched it I recommend you do, we had the technology 10 years ago let alone 18 years ago when the EV1 came out.



EVERYONE needs to watch that. Definately will change your views on some things like the inner thought process of GM and just how little we all mean to them in the bigger picture.

People found a parking lot full of "retired" EV-1's and they picketed outside for a good amount of time, i cant remeber how long. I want to say three weeks or 2 months lol. They even got a bunch of people to offer $80,000 a piece for those cars. They made a check out to GM for over a million dollars. And then GM came outside and loaded all the cars up and took them and crushed them.

All of these upstarts make wild, wild claims and it hardly ever materializes into what they say it will. In fact none of these cars (including the Volt) are proven to work as advertised.

The technology and affordability for producing a viable electric car (meaning they work as well and as efficientily as our gasoline cars) is so far off, and may even never happen. You guys put way too much stock in stories like this.


Youre wrong its been proven. Watch that documentary. The EV-1 and ranger and rav 4 all got a decent range and charged quick. On top of that, they interview the battery makers who said the technology existed, and was ready for further improvement and they didnt understand why gm didnt opt for the longer range, and they said anyone who believes batteries dont have the rrange or charge time was mislead. Its all in that film. Whats the difference between now and then? GM was legally obliged to build them. When the CAFE standard was lifted, all of a sudden they all got destroyed. I think that paints a pretty clear picture. The technology exists but they are purposely not using it probably because back then the oil giants were like "hey, GM, listen up. In MID-2000's we're going to fake a gas crisis and gas will reach nearly $5/gallon. We just cant have this technology out when that happens. So here, take %30 of our profits and let us have free rein and after a few years or so, you can introduce a half assed version of this car (volt) and you'll look like heroes."

Youre wrong its been proven. Watch that documentary. The EV-1 and ranger and rav 4 all got a decent range and charged quick. On top of that, they interview the battery makers who said the technology existed, and was ready for further improvement and they didnt understand why gm didnt opt for the longer range, and they said anyone who believes batteries dont have the rrange or charge time was mislead. Its all in that film. Whats the difference between now and then? GM was legally obliged to build them. When the CAFE standard was lifted, all of a sudden they all got destroyed. I think that paints a pretty clear picture. The technology exists but they are purposely not using it probably because back then the oil giants were like "hey, GM, listen up. In MID-2000's we're going to fake a gas crisis and gas will reach nearly $5/gallon. We just cant have this technology out when that happens. So here, take %30 of our profits and let us have free rein and after a few years or so, you can introduce a half assed version of this car (volt) and you'll look like heroes."

I've seen it, it has an agenda and bias, and you need to think about it much more critically.

The EV1 was hardly a practical car or an affordable car or a profitable car for it's maker. It is not a replacement for the large, convenient vehicles with long ranges and quick refill times we all enjoy today.

Making cars is a business and people have wildly varying needs. Nobody has made any money selling purely electric cars, nobody has bought them (or leased them) in huge quantities and the technology to support the type of operation we're used to and expect in gasoline-powered cars at a price people can bear simply doesn't exist. There's no arguing against that unless you're a fervent zealot who is blind to these realities.

Toyota's profit margin on hybrids is slim and they've been nurturning that technoloy for over a decade. They also are packaged and operate much like the cars the entire world is used to. Yet they still make up a very small portion of the overall new car market and the Prius is far and away the most popular. Of all the new technology hybrids make the most sense.

But what is most sensible overall remains building a small, very efficient and excellently executed automobile. They are the most convenient, the most affordable and save the most resources for those who care, and if GM really wants to have any type of future they have to absolutely get serious about making an excellent compact car and making a profit at it.

Where is the documentary you are speaking of. (I want to see it.... not to poke fun at it either.... I think EV technology is promising.... but just not quite there yet.... Hopefully that will change soon.)

Who Killed the Electric Car, you've probably heard of it.

It is on google video.

The Volt is the right idea...internal combustion engine and EV...however 40k is terrible. Might as well buy a Bimmer or a Caddy for the fam.

W

Who Killed the Electric Car, you've probably heard of it.

Oh... that video. Yeah.... I ran into it awhile back when there was a thread about the EV1. (Well... it wasn't a tread about the EV1 but someone had thought GM had killed the Volt project due to an old headline.)

I agree with WECIV.... Volt is the right idea... but @ $40K... it's going to be a no go for a lot of people.

I've seen it, it has an agenda and bias, and you need to think about it much more critically.

The EV1 was hardly a practical car or an affordable car or a profitable car for it's maker. It is not a replacement for the large, convenient vehicles with long ranges and quick refill times we all enjoy today.

Making cars is a business and people have wildly varying needs. Nobody has made any money selling purely electric cars, nobody has bought them (or leased them) in huge quantities and the technology to support the type of operation we're used to and expect in gasoline-powered cars at a price people can bear simply doesn't exist. There's no arguing against that unless you're a fervent zealot who is blind to these realities.

Toyota's profit margin on hybrids is slim and they've been nurturning that technoloy for over a decade. They also are packaged and operate much like the cars the entire world is used to. Yet they still make up a very small portion of the overall new car market and the Prius is far and away the most popular. Of all the new technology hybrids make the most sense.

But what is most sensible overall remains building a small, very efficient and excellently executed automobile. They are the most convenient, the most affordable and save the most resources for those who care, and if GM really wants to have any type of future they have to absolutely get serious about making an excellent compact car and making a profit at it.

Being biased works both ways. I understand what your saying but people also thought the Prius would never sell and it's done really well sales wise. It's not all it was cracked up to be but it's a step in the right direction and after a few more steps in that direction we'll be right where most people say we could never be.
And the reason nobody has made any money or sold many any BEV's before is because nobody has produced any of note. The only time someone did, the EV1 people were CAMPING outside impound lots and offering GM full value for USED electric cars. People were BEGGING to buy electric cars and nobody was selling except for Toyota which sold 400 Toyota BEV RAV4's in the 90's for 40K. And I just read that one of them sold for $7x,xxx at an auction. We're talking about a Rav 4 here man.
The technology is there, the demand is there but the commitement is not there yet on the part of the manufactor's.
Time will tell but I'm already planning my new DD on what will be around in 4 years. And like someone was saying I'm gonna keep my gas toys but for everyday boredom on the LA fwy's I know a BEV will work very well for my needs.

Inductive charging on the fly. Power strip embedded under the road way. Car picks up power from a tuned antenna.

Its completely possible.

^^^^ Only one problem.... that would COST WAY TOO MUCH to implement.

They didnt sale a lot becuase they didnt make a lot. What they did make people wanted so badly that they offered above market value like stated above. Ford ranger Evs today are still going for $30,000. Rav4's are going for seriously $50,000. Th prius is the first mass produced car even close to this type and its doing tremendously well. Theres more demand for these cars that almost anything else, When was the last time you saw people lined up begging abd crying to buy back a used car? Granted Gm has never before leased and then canceled a car but still.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/1116838797.html

The Volt is going to be low production. That has alot to do with its cost.

GM has also already admitted that it will take years for the Volt to be profitable for GM.... if ever.

GM has also already admitted that it will take years for the Volt to be profitable for GM.... if ever.

I think a good reputation, improved image, and even new group of customers, is pretty damned profitable.

Go to Tesla Motors and read about their new Model S. Impressive. Base price is expected to be $50K

- 300 mile range
- 45 minute QuickCharge
- 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds
- Seats 7 people (really just 5 adults)

^^^^ No that is pretty impressive. (Tesla Motors)

I think the Volt is a better choice.... at least for now.

GM has also already admitted that it will take years for the Volt to be profitable for GM.... if ever.

I think a good reputation, improved image, and even new group of customers, is pretty damned profitable.


I HOPE this is one time GM is WRONG!!!!!! Hopefully VOLT will be a success and make GM a boatload of money!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope it may even lead to a high performance sports car model!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HOPE this is one time GM is WRONG!!!!!! Hopefully VOLT will be a success and make GM a boatload of money!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope it may even lead to a high performance sports car model!!!!!!!!!!!!

At the best, it could be as profitable as a Prius, and I can't find any hard numbers that say the Prius makes a dime for Toyota. Only Closed door statements by Japanese executives saying it is profitable? Considering the Prius is almost 100% Japanese made (read; expensive) I wouldn't be surprised if they lose money on every one.

Whats disconcerting is the automatic assumption that a Foreign company can do no wrong and any American company must be bad. Put that in your Chinese made simulac and drink it.

Actually.... I read where the Prius is profitable for Toyota... but has a razor thin margin.

Actually.... I read where the Prius is profitable for Toyota... but has a razor thin margin.

I’ve read the same thing, but when I started looking closer there have been some statements that don't jive. And when Jim Press, the Former N. American President for Toyota states that the Japanese Government paid for all of the Battery/Hybrid development on the Prius, it comes as no surprise that you don't know who is being honest. Toyota denies it of course, which I'm sure is part of that losing face crap they are so feverant about.

"Losing Face" = "Getting Caught with your pants down" just sounds nicer!

I think with their Yen getting stronger against our dollar as much as it has, whatever profits they might have been getting has probably gotten smaller if not disappeared too.

I think with their Yen getting stronger against our dollar as much as it has, whatever profits they might have been getting has probably gotten smaller if not disappeared too.

This is true, when I was at Nissan, there was a drive to keep the yen to dollar as close as possible to 100:1 or greater. If I remember right, it dropped into the eighties, and they were freaking. I was doing Engineering work, Localizing parts with suppliers here in the US to increase domestic content, which was done to make the company more profitable. As a positive, it brought jobs here. Many Japanese hated doing this, but the financial gain was too big of a driver to ignore. While the Criteria to accept Localized parts bordered on impossible, the Finance people in the company loved it. In my tenure there, we brought several sub-components and Tires on line that were US made.

Sorry off topic.

Any company can say anything and still never deliver. I'm thinking those electric scooters that you picked up for your kids at Cosco over Christmas is what we would get from Malaysia. Last for a couple of weeks and thats it.

If its a vehicle from GM or even one of the Japanese companies, you will get a fully developed modern vehicle, something from China or Malaysia and you may be buying a Yugo.I agree 100%. :nod: