Automotive News, Media & Press - Car & Driver Short Take - 2010 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500

Just all ate up with power.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/mustang_shelby_central/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_short_take_road_tes t/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_1/2095219-1-eng-US/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_1_gallery_image_lar ge.jpg

BY AARON ROBINSON
June 2009

At 86 years old, Carroll Shelby should consider putting his name on something more appropriate. Bags of prunes, perhaps? But there it is, pasted across the rump of a 540-hp, Corvette-priced, mega-Mustang. The faithful rejoice.

The 2010 Shelby GT500 goes on sale in May at a base price of $48,175, replacing the 2007–2009 Shelby GT500, as well as the limited edition, $80,000 2008–2009 Shelby GT500KR.

All 2010 Mustangs get new, curvier sheetmetal over bigger shoulder pads. The Shelby GT500 gets mostly the same, plus a distinct face and an aluminum hood gouged by a single large heat vent. A trapezoidal grille cap finishes off the nose as one big flaring nostril. This cap “traps” the hood behind it, in industry parlance, helping seal up the front end to better deliver cold air to the radiator and engine intake. It also looks far more evocative of past ponies than the base ’10 Mustang with its “shingle” hood overhanging the grille.

Big Ol’ Engine, Should it be Quicker?

Lifted from the limited-edition Shelby GT500KR, the 5.4-liter four-cam 32-valve V-8 with its Eaton 2300 intercooled supercharger turns a new twin-disc clutch that is easier on the left leg and has smoother take-up. A resonance chamber in the intake snorkel dampens supercharger whine while letting pass more of the V-8’s bellicose bawl during 4.6-second blasts to 60 mph.

Remember when 540 horses were enough to win Indy or set a Bonneville record? The Shelby lunges forward with a fearsome roar when you mash it, the acceleration making you startlingly heavy in the seat. Even so, Ford thought our 12.9-second quarter-mile was slow by a half-second, but after two test sessions in imperfect conditions—and after letting Ford’s own hot shoe take the wheel—we were unable to better the times. Ford figures the car should run 12.5-second quarters, maybe quicker. Maybe so—we await the proof. Meanwhile, it’s no quicker than a Chevy Camaro SS, which is about $17,000 cheaper.

We found the Shelby’s modest times even more surprising considering the friction-type limited-slip differential was shortened to a 3.55 ratio from a 3.31 in the previous GT500 for quicker jack-rabbiting. The 155-mph (electronically governed) sixth gear in the Tremec TR6060 transmission also is taller. The resulting 22-mpg highway rating cuts $300 off the federal guzzler penalty, now a mere $1000.

A Shelby Built by Ford

Actually, Shelby doesn’t build this Shelby. The authors are keen young engineers in Ford’s 60-member Special Vehicle Team. Tall, slender, Nordstrom’s-dressed Jamal Hameedi, 39, led the GT500 project—he should really have his name on the trunk, but that might cause trouble at border crossings. And Shelby is the ol’ Shel, the ol’ Snake, and this may be the last, live revelation from the Church of Shelby’s ancient deity, so he gets top billing.

Sweat expended to stiffen up the steering and body control pays off with a firmer on-center feel, more natural weighting, and less body teeter in corners. In GT500 coupes (the more flexy convertible makes do with older, softer settings), spring rates rise over last year’s GT500 to cut roll and pitch, but the front anti-roll bar has a thinner wall to make it less rigid, which quells understeer, we’re told. Steering-shaft flex was reduced with a firmer coupling at the steering-wheel tilt-joint, and a new type of Tokico front strut paired with new Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires delivers graceful path control and sticky cornering grip if not the twitching, telegraphic steering of a Honda (with 58 percent of almost 4000 pounds on the nose, could it ever?).

Confident in Corners

Considering it’s basically a humble, blue-collar suspension of front struts and a rear live-axle, the Shelby thunders confidently through corners without the disconcerting rear-end dance we’d expect from so much horsepower laden on such a simple chassis. The Dearborn Iron Works has learned how to make their Mustangs behave.

Details: Hand-applied body stripes—echoed by matching leather stripes in the seats—can be optionally deleted if you’re only buying a GT500 because they’re out of Tauruses. Twin four-inch exhaust tips blow the gasses out below a wide spoiler with a Gurney flap to cut rear lift. The retro shift knob is glued up from several small pieces by a company that makes billiard balls.

This GT500 promises the same straight-line performance as the limited-edition KR for perhaps $30,000 less. Well, it wouldn’t be the ol’ Shel without a little snake oil on tap.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/mustang_shelby_central/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_short_take_road_tes t/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_6/2095289-1-eng-US/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_6_gallery_image_lar ge.jpg

Highs: All ate up with power, Shelby provenance, more composed than a Mustang should be.

Lows: Corvette money gets a live axle, nose heavy and feels it.

Specifications

PRICE AS TESTED: $50,895 (base price: $48,175)

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 113 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 182 ft
Roadholding, 200-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89 g

http://www.laredogroup.com/images/car.and.driver_logo_client.gif (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/mustang_shelby_central/2010_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_short_take_road_tes t)

12.9 @ 113 for 51K......ha.

Beautiful car but cannot wait to hunt them down in a 2010 SS :)

W

12.9 @ 113 for 51K......ha.

C&D is notorious for pathetic testing. I'm sure guys like you and I will have those cars running right. A simple blower swap gives you a 10.50 at 135mph car that drives like stock and that will last forever. Overall, the GT500's are awesome cars. The 2010 model is even better. We'd all like them to weigh less and to be less expensive, but $50K isn't really all that much anymore.

Motortrend went 12.7 @ 118mph into a strong head wind. Still, that's not very good. Ford claims 12.30's @ 118mph. The 118mph traps are better though. That's 11 second territory at least. It's pulled 0.96g on the skidpad too.

I'm just happy that we have OEM's cranking out high HP vehicles. Hopefully GM can scrape enough (taxpayer) money together to get the blown Z/28 to market.

C&D is notorious for pathetic testing. I'm sure guys like you and I will have those cars running right. A simple blower swap gives you a 10.50 at 135mph car that drives like stock and that will last forever. Overall, the GT500's are awesome cars. The 2010 model is even better. We'd all like them to weigh less and to be less expensive, but $50K isn't really all that much anymore.

Motortrend went 12.7 @ 118mph into a strong head wind. Still, that's not very good. Ford claims 12.30's @ 118mph. The 118mph traps are better though. That's 11 second territory at least. It's pulled 0.96g on the skidpad too.

I'm just happy that we have OEM's cranking out high HP vehicles. Hopefully GM can scrape enough (taxpayer) money together to get the blown Z/28 to market.

Agree with everything, but they went 113 mph trap and didn't mention anything that would have caused that ~_~ Car and Driver is really shitty I know, but trap speed should be somewhere higher.

Car and Driver is really shitty I know, but trap speed should be somewhere higher.

There's the problem! :lol:

This car isn't very impressive in terms of straight line performance in stock trim. However, it has tons of potential. I think that's what that car is really all about. A $40K price tag sure would be nice though.

I suggest a few of you read that article again. After C&D drove it, one of Fords drivers stepped in and did WORSE. While the GT500 may not be, that particular car is a dud.

There's the problem! :lol:

This car isn't very impressive in terms of straight line performance in stock trim. However, it has tons of potential. I think that's what that car is really all about. A $40K price tag sure would be nice though.

Oh I know about the potential, I don't know if it was you or someone else who showed a GT500 that somebody swapped twin 67 mm turbos onto and it made 1000+rwhp on stock internals. And ran fast as shit.

Nice looking car, for just another $7k+ it might be able to keep up with a stock C6Z.

There's the problem! :lol:

This car isn't very impressive in terms of straight line performance in stock trim. However, it has tons of potential. I think that's what that car is really all about. A $40K price tag sure would be nice though.

When you pay $50k+ for a car, you're not looking for potential. Your looking for performance. They need to deliver more performance at that price point. Period.

It's also ridiculous that this thing has 540hp and can't break into 11's stock. That's insane. This is one of the many problems that make American muscle cars look so wasteful. It's one thing if they are only tops in a straight line...I can deal with that because muscle cars are about more than just performance...there's an aura to them also. But they have got to do better with the power they have in this car.

When you pay $50k+ for a car, you're not looking for potential. Your looking for performance. They need to deliver more performance at that price point. Period.

It's also ridiculous that this thing has 540hp and can't break into 11's stock. That's insane. This is one of the many problems that make American muscle cars look so wasteful. It's one thing if they are only tops in a straight line...I can deal with that because muscle cars are about more than just performance...there's an aura to them also. But they have got to do better with the power they have in this car.

A 12.3 1/4 mile is what I expect from a 50k car.

I guess you can blame the weight for them not going into the 11s but I believe the 2011 Gt500 is going to get a aluminum block which is going to make it save around 80 lbs so we can expect alittle better numbers.

Im also impressed by the skidpad numbers and like others said the potential in this car is amazing.

WEAK!!!!:devil:

I think the 2010's look so much better than the previous models. It's got a lot of potential for sure.

A 12.3 1/4 mile is what I expect from a 50k car.

Well you'd be hard pressed to get that out of this car. I guess if you can launch like Evan Smith or Ranger...you'll get those numbers every saturday night...but to the rest of the world, this is a mid-twelves car at best. For 540hp and $50k, that's a ripoff. Hell, the C6 can be had cheaper and will run mid-low twelves for even a driver just lightly acquainted with the concept of launch technique.

Basically, i'm just saying that it's the principle of this car that bothers me. It's very cool in appearance and stature...no doubt. But Ford should have realized an issue when the first GT500 could barely break mid-twelves with 500hp. Instead of working on reducing weight or tweaking the driveline...they just heap on more power. More power that does very little. THAT'S what bothers me with this car.

I aint impressed with any of ford's driveline. When I go to the local dragstrip all Ford's stuff typicaly goes slower than mag tested times. GM stuff typically goes faster.

I aint impressed with any of ford's driveline.


Not even the T-56? ...which happens to be the exact same trans that's in your car.


When I go to the local dragstrip all Ford's stuff typicaly goes slower than mag tested times. GM stuff typically goes faster.

There is no LSx in the world that can keep up with Ford's that run the same class. That is a fact. Just keep that in mind.

Well you'd be hard pressed to get that out of this car.

How can you possible know that? No one has even run these things on an actual drag strip yet. That's pure speculation.


For 540hp and $50k, that's a ripoff.

If you can't afford one, don't buy one. If you don't like it, don't buy one. It's pretty simple.

It's just a car. Why do you sound so pissed off? :lol:

Not even the T-56? ...which happens to be the exact same trans that's in your car.



There is no LSx in the world that can keep up with Ford's that run the same class. That is a fact. Just keep that in mind.

Its not a T56 anymore unit....TR-6060.
I'm not impressed by the performance for the price, but the potential is astounding.

I aint impressed with any of ford's driveline. When I go to the local dragstrip all Ford's stuff typicaly goes slower than mag tested times. GM stuff typically goes faster.
:eyes: What's the local dragstrip that you see all these less than impressive Ford's at ????

I could see myself picking up a used one of these in the future. :pimp:

When you pay $50k+ for a car, you're not looking for potential. Your looking for performance.

Exactly, I don't wanna spend 50K and then have to drop 5K in it to make it "perform". A '02-'04 ZO6 for half the money would eat one of these.

How can you possible know that? No one has even run these things on an actual drag strip yet. That's pure speculation.

It is speculation. So is your comment that this car has "tons of potential". They are both pretty safe predictions however, since the car has a supercharger...it should indeed do well in the aftermarket...and since Ford has only added 40hp, we should be looking at another 10th or two off the 2009 GT500's runs. So yeah, both comments are speculation...but both are pretty safe bets.



If you can't afford one, don't buy one. If you don't like it, don't buy one. It's pretty simple.

It's just a car. Why do you sound so pissed off? :lol:

That's just my point...I CAN afford one, and I like the looks and the presence. I'm pissed off because even with all those positives, Ford still fails to deliver the complete package like GM has with the Camaro. Despite the fact that Ford has had far more time, and far more experience with their respective platform, GM managed to toss out an all new design that whoops it in the overall category.

With GM not delivering a supercharged Camaro, this new GT500 could have been my next toy...instead i'll be buying a C6Z or a Camaro SS and a blower.

There's the problem! :lol:

This car isn't very impressive in terms of straight line performance in stock trim. However, it has tons of potential. I think that's what that car is really all about. A $40K price tag sure would be nice though.

I am glad you came in here. I hate it when people talk shit about 03/04 Cobras and the GT500 being slow. Yet they drive slow ass 300 rwhp cars...

It is speculation. So is your comment that this car has "tons of potential". They are both pretty safe predictions however, since the car has a supercharger...it should indeed do well in the aftermarket...and since Ford has only added 40hp, we should be looking at another 10th or two off the 2009 GT500's runs. So yeah, both comments are speculation...but both are pretty safe bets.





That's just my point...I CAN afford one, and I like the looks and the presence. I'm pissed off because even with all those positives, Ford still fails to deliver the complete package like GM has with the Camaro. Despite the fact that Ford has had far more time, and far more experience with their respective platform, GM managed to toss out an all new design that whoops it in the overall category.

With GM not delivering a supercharged Camaro, this new GT500 could have been my next toy...instead i'll be buying a C6Z or a Camaro SS and a blower.

So you don't find it anymore disappointing that a new Camaro SS weighs ~3,900 and runs high 12s/low 13s with 426hp? You also act like the Camaro isn't built on a platform that has been out for several years, and was already used in several cars. So it's not really "an all new design" like you claim it is. It's a new body and a resurrected name.

So you don't find it anymore disappointing that a new Camaro SS weighs ~3,900 and runs high 12s/low 13s with 426hp? You also act like the Camaro isn't built on a platform that has been out for several years, and was already used in several cars. So it's not really "an all new design" like you claim it is. It's a new body and a resurrected name.

1. The fully loaded Camaro SS (SS2) weighs in under 3900lbs. There are plenty of other equipment levels that weigh far less. The GT500 is 3900lbs...you don't have any choices about that.

2. The SS runs high 12s with 426hp in magazines. The 2010 GT500 runs high 12s with 540hp in magazines. So to answer your question exactly, NO I DON'T find it dissapointing at all. Ford has set the bar, and GM has surpassed it. Now just imagine what Camaros with 540hp are going to do.

3. I haven't said the Camaro uses an "all new platform". I have said the Camaro is "all new". Two very different things.

1. The fully loaded Camaro SS (SS2) weighs in under 3900lbs. There are plenty of other equipment levels that weigh far less. The GT500 is 3900lbs...you don't have any choices about that.

2. The SS runs high 12s with 426hp in magazines. The 2010 GT500 runs high 12s with 540hp in magazines. So to answer your question exactly, NO I DON'T find it dissapointing at all. Ford has set the bar, and GM has surpassed it. Now just imagine what Camaros with 540hp are going to do.

3. I haven't said the Camaro uses an "all new platform". I have said the Camaro is "all new". Two very different things.
You might not have come out and said that outright, but you definitely insinuated it.
Despite the fact that Ford has had far more time, and far more experience with their respective platform, GM managed to toss out an all new design that whoops it in the overall category.

And the new GT500 has run mid 12s in other tests, and the previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s. There is no reason to believe that the new GT500 can't do better. Whereas nobody has run anything better than high 12s in the new Camaro SS (regardless of the fact that it surely can). And there is a reason that I put ~3,900lbs. As in, around 3,900lbs. We know you think F-bodies are the cat's meow, but you're acting like the new Camaro is the 2nd coming of Jesus or something.

And the new GT500 has run mid 12s in other tests, and the previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s. There is no reason to believe that the new GT500 can't do better.

The previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s with phenomenal launches. The new one has 40hp more. That'll be good for another 10th or two. So it's still a low-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. The new Camaro should be a mid-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. Give THAT car 540hp, just for comparison's sake, and you're possibly looking at mid-elevens (more likely high elevens). THAT'S where this GT500 SHOULD BE.

We know you think F-bodies are the cat's meow, but you're acting like the new Camaro is the 2nd coming of Jesus or something.

I love this comment here. Bravo.

You defend the Mustang and anything Honda like it's your grandmother's life, and then have the nerve to accuse ME of bias?

Classic.

Even so, Ford thought our 12.9-second quarter-mile was slow by a half-second, but after two test sessions in imperfect conditions—and after letting Ford’s own hot shoe take the wheel—we were unable to better the times.


What's up with that? Even Ford's driver couldn't do better? I like this GT500 better than the previous version; but WTF? Curious to see what numbers real owners will get at the track.

What's up with that? Even Ford's driver couldn't do better? I like this GT500 better than the previous version; but WTF? Curious to see what numbers real owners will get at the track.

Just because they work for Ford doesn't mean they can drive worth a flip.

The previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s with phenomenal launches. The new one has 40hp more. That'll be good for another 10th or two. So it's still a low-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. The new Camaro should be a mid-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. Give THAT car 540hp, just for comparison's sake, and you're possibly looking at mid-elevens (more likely high elevens). THAT'S where this GT500 SHOULD BE.



I love this comment here. Bravo.

You defend the Mustang and anything Honda like it's your grandmother's life, and then have the nerve to accuse ME of bias?

Classic.

Ricer. And I don't "defend" anything. I contradict stupid.

Ricer. And I don't "defend" anything. I contradict stupid.

You don't contradict anything. At least not successfully. Apparently you don't know the difference between stupid and genius...if you did you'd take care of your own issues before wasting others' time.

Seriously, all you've done on this site is pop into every Mustang and Honda related thread and bash everyone who doesn't worship them.

Calling me ricer just puts the icing on the cake. I own five vehicles currently and not a single one of them is an import. Your car is, however, and you call me ricer. You don't contradict stupidity, you promote it.

I'd put the rolleyes smiley here, but it just doesn't cut it anymore.

:corn: :chug:

Just because they work for Ford doesn't mean they can drive worth a flip.

True, but you would at least think they would have more seat time behind the wheel to wring a better ET.

True, but you would at least think they would have more seat time behind the wheel to wring a better ET.

These big car mag drivers spend a lot of time behind the wheel you would think but look at some of the shit times they've pulled off.

Does Evan Smith still work for MM&FF? I haven't looked through one in a couple years. I'd like to see him do a comparison between the GT500 and Camaro that way nobody can claim driver error. If I'm not mistaken, he got a stock LS1 Camaro into the 12.8 range.

You don't contradict anything. At least not successfully. Apparently you don't know the difference between stupid and genius...if you did you'd take care of your own issues before wasting others' time.

Seriously, all you've done on this site is pop into every Mustang and Honda related thread and bash everyone who doesn't worship them.

Calling me ricer just puts the icing on the cake. I own five vehicles currently and not a single one of them is an import. Your car is, however, and you call me ricer. You don't contradict stupidity, you promote it.

I'd put the rolleyes smiley here, but it just doesn't cut it anymore.
So you're a genius, eh? That's hilarious. And if you haven't noticed, 93.27% of the threads in the Kill Stories section are about Mustangs/Hondas, so I'm sorry if you don't like me posting in them. And a PERSON being a ricer has nothing to do with what car they drive.

Does Evan Smith still work for MM&FF? I haven't looked through one in a couple years. I'd like to see him do a comparison between the GT500 and Camaro that way nobody can claim driver error. If I'm not mistaken, he got a stock LS1 Camaro into the 12.8 range.

:engarde: MM&FF and GMHTP mag's have done this before, back a few years ago. I say let Evan lay down some numbers in the best conditions, then an average Joe who has some experience with each car. This will give best case examples as well as average times.

I am glad you came in here. I hate it when people talk shit about 03/04 Cobras and the GT500 being slow. Yet they drive slow ass 300 rwhp cars...

Slow ass 300 rwhp cars with a ton of potential.

See what I did there?

Exactly, I don't wanna spend 50K and then have to drop 5K in it to make it "perform". A '02-'04 ZO6 for half the money would eat one of these.

Actually, you are at 550whp for 1700 in the older ones, and it will probably be at that power level for a granbd or som on the new car, since they already have a nice intake on them.

Not to mention you can be at 800rwhp for 7k or so.
I don;t look at what nay car does stock when making a purchase decision. I look at what I can mae it dow within a budget. What fun is driving around a stock car?

The previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s with phenomenal launches. The new one has 40hp more. That'll be good for another 10th or two. So it's still a low-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. The new Camaro should be a mid-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. Give THAT car 540hp, just for comparison's sake, and you're possibly looking at mid-elevens (more likely high elevens). THAT'S where this GT500 SHOULD BE.

I agree with all of this. No one here is bashing this car, just expressing disappointment. There is no doubt this car is capable of plenty, it should just have it from the factory for this kind of money, and it doesn't.

I really hope that GM releases the Z28 model. Assuming it comes out with the 550 hp LSA (as speculated), I'd really like to see someone defend the GT500 against it.

Actually, you are at 550whp for 1700 in the older ones, and it will probably be at that power level for a granbd or som on the new car, since they already have a nice intake on them.

Not to mention you can be at 800rwhp for 7k or so.
I don;t look at what nay car does stock when making a purchase decision. I look at what I can mae it dow within a budget. What fun is driving around a stock car?

This takes all logical comparison out the window. If you are just going to compare what a car is capable of rather than what it can do from the factory (for $50K+), then we might as well compare this to the '03 and '04 Cobras. I mean, they are capable of a lot, and they did it 6 years ago!

The previous GT500 hit low-mid 12s with phenomenal launches. The new one has 40hp more. That'll be good for another 10th or two. So it's still a low-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. The new Camaro should be a mid-twelves car in the hands of a top driver. Give THAT car 540hp, just for comparison's sake, and you're possibly looking at mid-elevens (more likely high elevens). THAT'S where this GT500 SHOULD BE.



I love this comment here. Bravo.

You defend the Mustang and anything Honda like it's your grandmother's life, and then have the nerve to accuse ME of bias?

Classic.
I am starting to question your logic here.
There is nothing "magical" about either car. If you gice the camaro "540hp" it is not going to faster becuase it is a camaro.
The new car is also geared more agressively tha the older car.

I suggest a few of you read that article again. After C&D drove it, one of Fords drivers stepped in and did WORSE. While the GT500 may not be, that particular car is a dud.

You're assuming that the Ford guy was a driver. He was probably an engineer.

When you pay $50k+ for a car, you're not looking for potential. Your looking for performance.

I agree with you on this one to an extent. The C6's don't perform very well IMO for what their MSRP is. Low to mid 12's with similar mph to this GT500.
That's comparing a 4,000lb four seater to a 3,200lb 2 seater. Not too bad considering the GT500 is only going to be a few tenths off that pace.


They need to deliver more performance at that price point. Period.

I would love to see it run 10's stock, but it doesn't. It will definitely run 11's with a CAI kit, exhaust, and a tune. Add a pulley and drag radials and it'll run 10's. You won't find another car to run 10's that easily for the price...unless you buy an old POS and dump money into it.

C5 Z06's aren't that much faster than the new GT500 all things considered. A few tenths is meaningless IMO in stock trim since no one leaves their car stock.


It's also ridiculous that this thing has 540hp and can't break into 11's stock. That's insane. This is one of the many problems that make American muscle cars look so wasteful. It's one thing if they are only tops in a straight line...I can deal with that because muscle cars are about more than just performance...there's an aura to them also. But they have got to do better with the power they have in this car.

It's 4,000lbs. What did you really expect? :jest:
...and it's not making 540 to the wheels either.

Its not a T56 anymore unit....TR-6060.
I'm not impressed by the performance for the price, but the potential is astounding.

Yes Chris, I know that. ;) I was making a comparison between a Ford and a GM driveline.

Exactly, I don't wanna spend 50K and then have to drop 5K in it to make it "perform". A '02-'04 ZO6 for half the money would eat one of these.

Great, a R1 would eat a Z06 for much less money too. There's another bad comparison for you while we are comparing apples and oranges.

It is speculation.


So is your comment that this car has "tons of potential".

No, actually my comment is fact. People in the industry have already been testing these cars. Previous model years prove it as well.


They are both pretty safe predictions however, since the car has a supercharger...it should indeed do well in the aftermarket...and since Ford has only added 40hp, we should be looking at another 10th or two off the 2009 GT500's runs. So yeah, both comments are speculation...but both are pretty safe bets.

Your comment is speculation. Mine is not.



That's just my point...I CAN afford one, and I like the looks and the presence. I'm pissed off because even with all those positives, Ford still fails to deliver the complete package like GM has with the Camaro. Despite the fact that Ford has had far more time, and far more experience with their respective platform, GM managed to toss out an all new design that whoops it in the overall category.

You sure are concerned about the performance of a stock car. :confused:
Stock sucks. 99% of stock cars are slow. Nothing new there. That's why we modify them.



With GM not delivering a supercharged Camaro, this new GT500 could have been my next toy...instead i'll be buying a C6Z or a Camaro SS and a blower.

So instead of being pissed at GM because they are too inept to produce a blown Z28, you're pissed at Ford because they actually built a blown Mustang. :nono:


I am glad you came in here. I hate it when people talk shit about 03/04 Cobras and the GT500 being slow. Yet they drive slow ass 300 rwhp cars...

It's ironic isn't it? Guys driving 12 and 13 second cars are the ones who always do the complaining! :D


The SS runs high 12s with 426hp in magazines. The 2010 GT500 runs high 12s with 540hp in magazines.

Magazine racing is for ricers. You know that.


So to answer your question exactly, NO I DON'T find it dissapointing at all. Ford has set the bar, and GM has surpassed it. Now just imagine what Camaros with 540hp are going to do.


Bench racing is for ricers too. Again, something you know.

Actually, you are at 550whp for 1700 in the older ones, and it will probably be at that power level for a granbd or som on the new car, since they already have a nice intake on them.

Not to mention you can be at 800rwhp for 7k or so.
I don;t look at what nay car does stock when making a purchase decision. I look at what I can mae it dow within a budget. What fun is driving around a stock car?

You can't fix the GT500's weight and crappy weight distribution though....

It's not all about 1/4 miles times. At least not to me.

f


Great, a R1 would eat a Z06 for much less money too. There's another bad comparison for you while we are comparing apples and oranges.

















I compared a cheaper better performing car to another car. You compare a bike and bring up apples to oranges? Makes no sense, I was talking about a C5 ZO6 not a C6, says it clear as day in my post.

I compared a cheaper better performing car to another car.

You're comparing two cars that are in completely different classes.
Should we compare a stock eliminator car to a 10.5 outlaw car?

Makes no sense, I was talking about a C5 ZO6 not a C6, says it clear as day in my post.

Regardless, comparing a C5 or a C6 to a GT500 is apples and oranges.

I agree with you on this one to an extent. The C6's don't perform very well IMO for what their MSRP is. Low to mid 12's with similar mph to this GT500.
That's comparing a 4,000lb four seater to a 3,200lb 2 seater. Not too bad considering the GT500 is only going to be a few tenths off that pace.

The problem with that is the C6, unlike the GT500, can also turn and brake. That's why you don't see people complaining about them. The GT500 is disappointing because the same year C6 can do everything better for similar cost, whether or not they are in the same class.

You're assuming that the Ford guy was a driver. He was probably an engineer.


Assuming it was an engineer is somehow better? At least I'm going on the "hot-shoe" description (again, read the article), which certainly would NOT describe an engineer.

The problem with that is the C6, unlike the GT500, can also turn and brake. That's why you don't see people complaining about them. The GT500 is disappointing because the same year C6 can do everything better for similar cost, whether or not they are in the same class. The only reason these cars are being compared is due to power output and price range. Dissect each vehicle and the only thing simular between them both are rear wheel drive,big brakes, 6 spd trans,and a V8 engine.

The problem with that is the C6, unlike the GT500, can also turn and brake. That's why you don't see people complaining about them.

.96 on the skidpad = can't turn? :confused:


The GT500 is disappointing because the same year C6 can do everything better for similar cost....

Except put someone in the back seat. Two very different cars. Not everyone can fit into a C6. They are pretty small.

I agree with you on this one to an extent. The C6's don't perform very well IMO for what their MSRP is. Low to mid 12's with similar mph to this GT500. That's comparing a 4,000lb four seater to a 3,200lb 2 seater. Not too bad considering the GT500 is only going to be a few tenths off that pace.

The GT500 is a few tenths of the pace of a C6 that is 120hp less powerful. You neglected to mention that rather pertinent fact.

It's 4,000lbs. What did you really expect? :jest:
...and it's not making 540 to the wheels either.

You seem to be starting to see my point here.

No, actually my comment is fact. People in the industry have already been testing these cars. Previous model years prove it as well.

Both our comments fit the same bill. They are speculation until there is proof out there. There is no more proof out there that a 2010 GT500 has "potential" than there is that it will run low twelves. You can't dispute that factually, I know this.


You sure are concerned about the performance of a stock car. :confused:
Stock sucks. 99% of stock cars are slow. Nothing new there. That's why we modify them.

You sure are concerned about making known that this car mods well. You are making my point for me.

So instead of being pissed at GM because they are too inept to produce a blown Z28, you're pissed at Ford because they actually built a blown Mustang.

Did you even read what I said?

You're comparing two cars that are in completely different classes.
Should we compare a stock eliminator car to a 10.5 outlaw car?



Regardless, comparing a C5 or a C6 to a GT500 is apples and oranges.
It's not apples and oranges, price points are in the C5Z's favor and the C6 is about the same price.

If you wanna get into "apples and oranges" why compare a NA car to a FI car?

You can go on and on and on....bottom like is the car perfoms below where it should for the power/money.

.96 on the skidpad = can't turn? :confused:





What a car does on the skidpad had little to do with overall track performance though. The cars are nose heavy and will push into corners. And at nearly 4000 pounds they will not be fun,or easy to toss around a track. If someone is looking for a track car this would not be the car for them.

What a car does on the skidpad had little to do with overall track performance though. The cars are nose heavy and will push into corners. And at nearly 4000 pounds they will not be fun,or easy to toss around a track. If someone is looking for a track car this would not be the car for them.

Tell that to the numbnuts (Wesman02, surprise) who said that the new Camaro SS is "much better in every aspect" than the 370Z :eyes:.

I get the point guys. $50K is too much for you and you're pissed that the car doesn't perform like you think it should. So now what? Cry and complain about every car that doesn't cost and perform exactly like you think it should?

Guys have already run 7's in GT500's and they've also won quite a few road course events. Every stock car for $50K and under is slow. Corvettes, Mustangs, fbodies, etc. If they weren't, we would not be modifying them.

I get the point guys. $50K is too much for you and you're pissed that the car doesn't perform like you think it should. So now what? Cry and complain about every car that doesn't cost and perform exactly like you think it should?

Guys have already run 7's in GT500's and they've also won quite a few road course events. Every stock car for $50K and under is slow. Corvettes, Mustangs, fbodies, etc. If they weren't, we would not be modifying them.

You are still missing the real point i'm trying to pound home here. Lots of cars under $50k don't perform like we all wish they would...but there's only one of those that has 540hp...the GT500. THAT, AGAIN, IS MY PROBLEM. Yeah the C6 may not be THAT FAST, yeah the Camaro may not be THAT FAST...etc...but give ANY of those cars 540hp, and they would be THAT FAST.

The point is that this car is pricey, has tons of horsepower, and is just pretty fast. Instead of addressing things that would turn this car into a true bargain performer...Ford just heaps on more power...and accomplishes very little in the process.

540hp.. 113 mph trap speed is a solid 12 sec car. I like the new looks of it too!! I don't like the weight but your not going to get away from that.

You are still missing the real point i'm trying to pound home here. Lots of cars under $50k don't perform like we all wish they would...but there's only one of those that has 540hp...the GT500. THAT, AGAIN, IS MY PROBLEM. Yeah the C6 may not be THAT FAST, yeah the Camaro may not be THAT FAST...etc...but give ANY of those cars 540hp, and they would be THAT FAST.

The point is that this car is pricey, has tons of horsepower, and is just pretty fast. Instead of addressing things that would turn this car into a true bargain performer...Ford just heaps on more power...and accomplishes very little in the process. I have read what you have said and i evaluated and looked at other vehicles at this cars weight. 540 hp /510 ft-lb tq doesn't always equate 11 second quartermile times. The price of entry into this horsepower level is expensive and i'm sure Mr. Shelby isn't letting Ford use his name without some cost. The only car i can find in my current Road&Track mag that comes close to this level of power is of course the Corvette Z06 with 505hp/470 lb-ft and thats at price as tested $79,595 dollars. The 11.7@123.7 is better than the GT500 and the 3190-lb curb weight is also.

I get the point guys. $50K is too much for you and you're pissed that the car doesn't perform like you think it should. So now what? Cry and complain about every car that doesn't cost and perform exactly like you think it should?

Guys have already run 7's in GT500's and they've also won quite a few road course events. Every stock car for $50K and under is slow. Corvettes, Mustangs, fbodies, etc. If they weren't, we would not be modifying them.

Unit why do you bother with these kids. All they have is a beat down 98 LS1 with free mods. To them thats the fastest thing ever. They will never get it...

This takes all logical comparison out the window. If you are just going to compare what a car is capable of rather than what it can do from the factory (for $50K+), then we might as well compare this to the '03 and '04 Cobras. I mean, they are capable of a lot, and they did it 6 years ago!

Is your car stock? None of mine have ever stayed stock. That is just the way I am. Therefore, performance that can be extracted by bolt ons is very important to me as a buyer, as well as the engine's strength. I have been sayin for years that I would end up with a GT500, or the new Z28 (which looks doubful now). The one I would choose would be the one with the stronger shortblock. I don't have brand loyalty like some of the blind people aroung here. I have a power/forced induction loyalty.

Lot's of guys do compare the GT500 to the terms, and the Shelby is better.

Is your car stock? None of mine have ever stayed stock. That is just the way I am. Therefore, performance that can be extracted by bolt ons is very important to me as a buyer, as well as the engine's strength. I have been sayin for years that I would end up with a GT500, or the new Z28 (which looks doubful now). The one I would choose would be the one with the stronger shortblock. I don't have brand loyalty like some of the blind people aroung here. I have a power/forced induction loyalty.

Lot's of guys do compare the GT500 to the terms, and the Shelby is better.

You are missing the point here. With "fast" being subjective here, 540 hp is not as fast in the GT500 as it would be in a 4th Gen or an '03-'04 Cobra (I'll leave the Vettes out, since it is "not fair").

The car is heavy.
The performance numbers are low considering the power it boasts and the price tag it carries.
That is the point.

The "potential" of this car, or any car, should not be debated.

.96 on the skidpad = can't turn? :confused:

How many G forces a car can generate in a 200ft circle has little to no indication of its handling.

I have read what you have said and i evaluated and looked at other vehicles at this cars weight. 540 hp /510 ft-lb tq doesn't always equate 11 second quartermile times. The price of entry into this horsepower level is expensive and i'm sure Mr. Shelby isn't letting Ford use his name without some cost. The only car i can find in my current Road&Track mag that comes close to this level of power is of course the Corvette Z06 with 505hp/470 lb-ft and thats at price as tested $79,595 dollars. The 11.7@123.7 is better than the GT500 and the 3190-lb curb weight is also.

So then let me ask you this...since we've seen what 500hp and now 540hp equates to in this car, would you say that further horsepower increases would be a positive thing for this car?

I only ask because it's part of my point. Since this is a supercharged car and has "tons of potential" as Unit put it, and since 540hp is really going to do very little over the 500hp that didn't do too much for the car to begin with, is this maybe the point where Ford should start to work on things like weight reduction, handling, and fuel mileage and just stick with the 500hp rating?

You are missing the point here. With "fast" being subjective here, 540 hp is not as fast in the GT500 as it would be in a 4th Gen or an '03-'04 Cobra (I'll leave the Vettes out, since it is "not fair").

The car is heavy.
The performance numbers are low considering the power it boasts and the price tag it carries.
That is the point.

The "potential" of this car, or any car, should not be debated.

You will always get the "but a pulley change and an exhaust will..." excuses from the same guys on this forum. They just don't get the factory performance argument because they can't afford these kinds of cars new...they are always buying them used and modded. It's all they know.

I mean I love my car some of the time...it's great for surprising unsuspecting Vettes and Cobras on the highway, and for showing off at cruises and car shows...but i'm getting tired of the "modded out" feel of the car. It's insanely loud...which gets old, it rides rough, thanks to it's aggressive suspension, and no matter how fast it is, how great it handles, and how nice the custom interior is...it's still a '99. I'm ready for something new...this time i'm going for a car that doesn't need to be modded out to really perform...that's why I won't be going after the GT500. I can buy a C6Z and throw some CCW's on it and maybe a cool hood or something and be done with it. Or I could go with a loaded Camaro SS and a Magna Charger...and be done with it. Then I will have a ~540hp supercharged Camaro that should be good for at least a second better in the quarter than the GT500.

That's what i'm getting at here.

Maybe first you need to figure out what kind of car you actually want, because a Corvette should never be compared to a Mustang/Camaro.

Maybe first you need to figure out what kind of car you actually want, because a Corvette should never be compared to a Mustang/Camaro.

Does that mean I can't be torn between which one I want?

Maybe I want the world-beater supercar...or maybe I want the badass what-the-fuck-you-lookin-at attitude of the musclecar.

Somedays I want one, somedays I want the other. I'm not about to buy both, the wife would kick me out of my own house...and niether of those cars are big enough for me to live in.

And you're torn between the two for intangible reasons at times, right? That's what causes people to like certain cars over others. Most of the people that buy GT500s love Mustangs, and are willing to pay $50k for one. It doesn't matter to them how much better the C6 is. Recognize that, and move on.

And you're torn between the two for intangible reasons at times, right? That's what causes people to like certain cars over others. Most of the people that buy GT500s love Mustangs, and are willing to pay $50k for one. It doesn't matter to them how much better the C6 is. Recognize that, and move on.

Dude i'm not even going to waste my time on you if you are going to keep doing this. All you do is pick out the small details of my points that you actually have something intelligent to respond with, and ignore the rest because you have nothing to stand on.

IF you would actually READ my ENTIRE explanation, you wouldn't have to make posts like the ones above, because you'd see that we are not actually in disagreement in the areas you have cherry-picked.

It's also ridiculous that this thing has 540hp and can't break into 11's stock. That's insane. This is one of the many problems that make American muscle cars look so wasteful. It's one thing if they are only tops in a straight line...I can deal with that because muscle cars are about more than just performance...there's an aura to them also. But they have got to do better with the power they have in this car.

That's just my point...I CAN afford one, and I like the looks and the presence. I'm pissed off because even with all those positives, Ford still fails to deliver the complete package like GM has with the Camaro. Despite the fact that Ford has had far more time, and far more experience with their respective platform, GM managed to toss out an all new design that whoops it in the overall category.

As you can see by my previous posts, I have not, and would never, dispute what you have posted above. I like the GT500 for the intangible reasons you speak of, but for me, those reasons are not enough to overcome the car's shortcomings.

If you are going to keep responding to my points this way, i'd prefer that you just overlook my posts and move onto others.

Saw a Blue GT500KR a couple weeks ago-----sounded very loud when he took off.....guy was about 75.....cool.

You will always get the "but a pulley change and an exhaust will..." excuses from the same guys on this forum. They just don't get the factory performance argument because they can't afford these kinds of cars new...they are always buying them used and modded. It's all they know..

That is making a rediculous assumption. I refuse to buy a modded car. 90% of the time you are buying someone else problem child that they are tired of messing with.
You get that arguemnt becuase I am sure everyone on here has at least a couple grand tied up in aftermarket upgrades. It is what "we" do. I think it's foolish for anyone who anticipates modding a car to not take performance per $ of upgrades into account when they buy something. Using ulitmate potential is pointless becuase you can make anything fast with limitless funds.

I mean I love my car some of the time...it's great for surprising unsuspecting Vettes and Cobras on the highway, and for showing off at cruises and car shows...but i'm getting tired of the "modded out" feel of the car. It's insanely loud...which gets old, it rides rough, thanks to it's aggressive suspension, and no matter how fast it is, how great it handles, and how nice the custom interior is...it's still a '99. I'm ready for something new...this time i'm going for a car that doesn't need to be modded out to really perform...that's why I won't be going after the GT500. I can buy a C6Z and throw some CCW's on it and maybe a cool hood or something and be done with it. Or I could go with a loaded Camaro SS and a Magna Charger...and be done with it. Then I will have a ~540hp supercharged Camaro that should be good for at least a second better in the quarter than the GT500.

That's what i'm getting at here.
If you don't care about what a car will do modded, that is fine. I guess most of us "grow up" at some point. If I didn't car about speed, I would get an Audi S5 though. That way the guys that do mod their cars won't be constantly trying to mess with me and showing me tail lights. That will always get to me I bet.
For the time being, it will be a Hellion powered GT500 for me, although a CTS-v might be a nice compramise :)

You are missing the point here. With "fast" being subjective here, 540 hp is not as fast in the GT500 as it would be in a 4th Gen or an '03-'04 Cobra (I'll leave the Vettes out, since it is "not fair").

The car is heavy.
The performance numbers are low considering the power it boasts and the price tag it carries.
That is the point.

The "potential" of this car, or any car, should not be debated.
...and 540hp in a fox body would be even faster. Cars get heavier as time goes on. That is just the way it goes. I would think the list is very short of cars that get a power increase and a weight decrese as the model progresses, especially on completley redisgned chassis.

Stock for stock teh Shelby is faster, and mod for mod they are faster. The only guys who care about weight are the guys with the older version trying to justify their own car. It is stupid.
The new Camaro is exactly the same way. Faster stock, faster with the same mods. Just becuase cars get heavier does not mean they are not better.

Unit why do you bother with these kids. All they have is a beat down 98 LS1 with free mods. To them thats the fastest thing ever. They will never get it...

So why do you keep posting like you're gods fucking gift to humanity? You sit here and call everyone "kids", well guess what grandpa, move on with the times. You're a friggin joke, you ask why he bothers, but why do you? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only person tired of your pointless posts and trying to start crap. I guess we're all kids who are poor and cannot afford better cars right? Because we all drive stock "300rwhp" cars who obviously cant know anything or have opinions about other cars right? Grow the fuck up, get a mother fucking life, and get off your high horse you arrogant prick. You're no better than the bum down the street laying on the fucking heater vent from the subway.


On to other things, the new GT500 looks nice. I like the new front end, and like said it has potential. Just my 2 cents.

Blackbird24, let me ask you a question. Since you are disappointed with a $50k car producing 540hp and mid 12 second quarter miles then what do you think about the Lamborghini Gallardo? Its AWD, weighs almost 4,000lbs, has 500HP, and can barely best the GT500's 1/4 mile times at 4 times the cost.

...and 540hp in a fox body would be even faster. Cars get heavier as time goes on. That is just the way it goes. I would think the list is very short of cars that get a power increase and a weight decrese as the model progresses, especially on completley redisgned chassis.

Stock for stock teh Shelby is faster, and mod for mod they are faster. The only guys who care about weight are the guys with the older version trying to justify their own car. It is stupid.
The new Camaro is exactly the same way. Faster stock, faster with the same mods. Just becuase cars get heavier does not mean they are not better.

So you're saying car will get heavier, making 500+ hp necessary for the car to get out of its own way, and this is just the way it is going to be? Aren't we pushing for more fuel efficient vehicles? (And by we, I mean car manufacturers.) What better weigh than to shed weight? Wasn't this the #1 problem with the previous GT500? So they address it by adding 40hp and regearing the car? It just seems half-assed. But if you have a hard on for this, by all means go get one.

I'll never say this car sucks. It is a very respectable vehicle. The numbers just don't seem to be matching up. I'd say the same thing about the Z28 if it comes out with a 550 hp LSA and throws down a high-12 second quarter mile run.

As far as this gem:
I would think the list is very short of cars that get a power increase and a weight decrese as the model progresses, especially on completley redisgned chassis.
I could spend the rest of my night proving this inaccurate, but you'd just deflect it. There were plenty that got power increases and had weight loss from the 90's, and that's just off the top of my head. I don't see DOT's safety standards increasing that much in the past 5-6 years.

Blackbird24, let me ask you a question. Since you are disappointed with a $50k car producing 540hp and mid 12 second quarter miles then what do you think about the Lamborghini Gallardo? Its AWD, weighs almost 4,000lbs, has 500HP, and can barely best the GT500's 1/4 mile times at 4 times the cost.

I'd use the Mustang answer here and say "apples and oranges."

So why do you keep posting like you're gods fucking gift to humanity? You sit here and call everyone "kids", well guess what grandpa, move on with the times. You're a friggin joke, you ask why he bothers, but why do you? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only person tired of your pointless posts and trying to start crap. I guess we're all kids who are poor and cannot afford better cars right? Because we all drive stock "300rwhp" cars who obviously cant know anything or have opinions about other cars right? Grow the fuck up, get a mother fucking life, and get off your high horse you arrogant prick. You're no better than the bum down the street laying on the fucking heater vent from the subway.


On to other things, the new GT500 looks nice. I like the new front end, and like said it has potential. Just my 2 cents.

Not bad for a newbee with 17 posts. :jest:

So why do you keep posting like you're gods fucking gift to humanity? You sit here and call everyone "kids", well guess what grandpa, move on with the times. You're a friggin joke, you ask why he bothers, but why do you? I'm pretty sure i'm not the only person tired of your pointless posts and trying to start crap. I guess we're all kids who are poor and cannot afford better cars right? Because we all drive stock "300rwhp" cars who obviously cant know anything or have opinions about other cars right? Grow the fuck up, get a mother fucking life, and get off your high horse you arrogant prick. You're no better than the bum down the street laying on the fucking heater vent from the subway.


On to other things, the new GT500 looks nice. I like the new front end, and like said it has potential. Just my 2 cents.

One piece of advice to you. Chill out and grow some thicker skin or this place will really get to you if his comment did.

It looks more like a catfish than the 4th gen camaro's do lol

One piece of advice to you. Chill out and grow some thicker skin or this place will really get to you if his comment did.

Oh I'm good, I dont typically say anything and just read but I felt like saying something last night :D

So you're saying car will get heavier, making 500+ hp necessary for the car to get out of its own way, and this is just the way it is going to be? Aren't we pushing for more fuel efficient vehicles? (And by we, I mean car manufacturers.) What better weigh than to shed weight? Wasn't this the #1 problem with the previous GT500? So they address it by adding 40hp and regearing the car? It just seems half-assed. But if you have a hard on for this, by all means go get one.


at this point its more expensive to make the car lighter and maintain creature comforts. its easier and cheaper to add a CAI and a tune.

at this point its more expensive to make the car lighter and maintain creature comforts. its easier and cheaper to add a CAI and a tune.

Not to mention they needed a quick solution to keep interest on the car as the '11 car is supposed ot get the new Aluminum motor.

Not to mention they needed a quick solution to keep interest on the car as the '11 car is supposed ot get the new Aluminum motor.

exactly

it sounds like a pretty major overhaul is slated for 2011 :devil:

Um anyonbody else notice that the 2010 Camaro SS for 41k with 426 hp runs a 13.0 @ 111, and this 51k car with 540 hp runs 12.9 @ 113. Wait hold on, and the cheaper car has IRS?????? Um something is wrong with this picture. And though Car and Driver may suck testing the 1/4, but they are still faster than Automobile and Road and Track. Motor Trend can usually keep up.

Blackbird24, let me ask you a question. Since you are disappointed with a $50k car producing 540hp and mid 12 second quarter miles then what do you think about the Lamborghini Gallardo? Its AWD, weighs almost 4,000lbs, has 500HP, and can barely best the GT500's 1/4 mile times at 4 times the cost.

I want to touch on this. I think his deal is that the GT500 doesn't really do anything special for the $50,000 price tag. Ok its a 2+2 muscle car with great mod potential for power, good. While the car does perform good, for the price the car isn't quicker than the competition, doesn't handle better, doesn't brake better, and isn't built better. The only real reason to own the car is if you are a Mustang follower.
When you are paying high dollar for something like the Gallardo you are paying for the high quality/race materials, build quality and construction, higher dollar chassis/brakes/suspension/engine components, and of course the name. While you can say "well the Gallardo can probably be beat around a track by the cheaper ZR1", you need to read the previous sentence. The ZR1 doesn't match the Gallardo's build quality. You see the Gallardo has something to justify its higher price. The GT500 on the other hand doesn't really. I wish Ford would have focused on making it more like a "Z06", loose weight, focus on brakes and suspension(IRS) and getting the power to the ground.

So what will all of you do when GM is gone? More complaining I suppose.
You guys must bitch about fbodies all day, every day. Lord knows they are full of short-comings.
I guess it's irrelevant because they are extremely cheap, in price tag and in quality. MSRP must
be all that matters since there is an awful lot of crying about it. :cry:

More complaining I suppose.
You guys must bitch about fbodies all day, every day. Lord knows they are full of short-comings.
I guess it's irrelevant because they are extremely cheap, in price tag and in quality. MSRP must
be all that matters since there is an awful lot of crying about it. :cry:

And the Mustang just oozes with quality, right? Come on. Neither are exactly at the top of the food chain when it comes to quality. Even with it's shortcomings I've always preferred the F-body over the Mustang. However, I sat in the both the 2010 Mustang GT and 2010 Camaro SS and I felt the interior layout and design of the Mustang was light years ahead of the Camaro.


So what will all of you do when GM is gone?


Buy used GM vehicles. :jest:

So then let me ask you this...since we've seen what 500hp and now 540hp equates to in this car, would you say that further horsepower increases would be a positive thing for this car?

I only ask because it's part of my point. Since this is a supercharged car and has "tons of potential" as Unit put it, and since 540hp is really going to do very little over the 500hp that didn't do too much for the car to begin with, is this maybe the point where Ford should start to work on things like weight reduction, handling, and fuel mileage and just stick with the 500hp rating?
The thing that remains to be seen is a competent driver behind the wheel of the car. According to Road&Track the '08 Shelby GT500KR @ 3885 curb weight ran 4.7 sec to 60mph and 12.9@116.0 in the 1/4 mile. This being actually slower than the times they got from a '07 GT500 with times of 4.6/12.8@113.2 with a curb weight of 3950. True enough this was on different days probably with other variables (IE) temperature,condition of track surface,etc. Looking at this one would think 40 hp and 30 lb-ft 3.73:1 gearing and less weight actually hurt performance. Being a person that have driven and seen many Mustangs with similar increase run slightly quicker i comprehend obviously something is amiss here. Traction maybe a part of the problem but watching several video's and reading reviews most credit the car for actually being better in a small way than the KR. The "Weight" is obviously going to stay unless they reduce it with light weight components like: aluminum/magnesium/titanium/fiberglass/balsa wood/fiberglass/space frame....... oh wait that would be the Z06 :D Just kidding :angel: It might have something to do with the drop-clutch starts and lift-throttle shifts .

I want to touch on this. I think his deal is that the GT500 doesn't really do anything special for the $50,000 price tag. Ok its a 2+2 muscle car with great mod potential for power, good. While the car does perform good, for the price the car isn't quicker than the competition, doesn't handle better, doesn't brake better, and isn't built better. The only real reason to own the car is if you are a Mustang follower.
When you are paying high dollar for something like the Gallardo you are paying for the high quality/race materials, build quality and construction, higher dollar chassis/brakes/suspension/engine components, and of course the name. While you can say "well the Gallardo can probably be beat around a track by the cheaper ZR1", you need to read the previous sentence. The ZR1 doesn't match the Gallardo's build quality. You see the Gallardo has something to justify its higher price. The GT500 on the other hand doesn't really. I wish Ford would have focused on making it more like a "Z06", loose weight, focus on brakes and suspension(IRS) and getting the power to the ground.

That's pretty much it.

I would also note that if you compare the Camaro SS and GT500 on things other than just straight line performance, you may also get a better idea of what i'm getting at. The Camaro has decent power...not a ton like the GT500, but decent power, and of course, TONS of potential just like the GT500. It also has a better suspension, better brakes, a more stylish and comfortable interior, and it's cheaper. When 500hp didn't dazzle anyone in the 2009 GT500, why did anyone think 540hp was going to do anything more? I would have expected Ford to focus on suspension, brakes and as much weight reduction as reasonably possible. Those upgrades would have gone alot further than the extra 40hp...and they probably could have upped the fuel mileage even more...another feature that's worth more than 40hp these days.

So what will all of you do when GM is gone? More complaining I suppose.
You guys must bitch about fbodies all day, every day. Lord knows they are full of short-comings.
I guess it's irrelevant because they are extremely cheap, in price tag and in quality. MSRP must
be all that matters since there is an awful lot of crying about it. :cry:

You do an awful lot of crying about power. So I would be so brave as to say that it must be the ONLY thing that matters to you. So some people prioritize price highest on their list, some prioritize power highest...etc. Just a difference of opinion. I think it's ridiculous to compromise quality, style and comfort all in the name of having a factory forged V8 with a supercharger that's super cheap to get gobs of power out of. Power gets old faster than style and comfort...at least in my mind. You obviously disagree. Big deal.

So what will all of you do when GM is gone? More complaining I suppose.

I will watch in amazement, as Ford fails to capitalize and files for Chapter 11. You act as if Ford is doing so much better. Their time is coming, just wait. :secret2:

I will watch in amazement, as Ford fails to capitalize and files for Chapter 11. You act as if Ford is doing so much better. Their time is coming, just wait. :secret2:

Chapter 11 >>>>>>> bailout.

but

bailout with chapter 11 ending > *

So I would be so brave as to say that it must be the ONLY thing that matters to you.

Brave? No, you'd be wrong.


So some people prioritize price highest on their list, some prioritize power highest...etc.

Obviously. If price is you're biggest concern about a car, look for something cheaper.


I think it's ridiculous to compromise quality, style and comfort all in the name of having a factory forged V8 with a supercharger that's super cheap to get gobs of power out of.

Have you ever driven a GT500? They are WORLDS better than an fbody in terms of comfort and quality. You apparently didn't have any issues with poor quality when you bought your fbody...and they are definitely poor quality cars. Great performers, but poor quality.


I would have expected Ford to focus on suspension, brakes and as much weight reduction as reasonably possible.

Brembos aren't good enough for you? What brakes do you have on your fbody?

http://i40.tinypic.com/ng9isz.jpg

I can't speak for him but my Bird has Laser brakes. I stop with focused beams of electromagnetic radiation.

I can't speak for him but my Bird has Laser brakes. I stop with focused beams of electromagnetic radiation.

Watch out for detached retinas! :lol:

Brave? No, you'd be wrong.

Well your car (and attitude) certainly fooled me.

Have you ever driven a GT500? They are WORLDS better than an fbody in terms of comfort and quality. You apparently didn't have any issues with poor quality when you bought your fbody...and they are definitely poor quality cars. Great performers, but poor quality.

I have ridden in a 2007. I fully expect the car to be of higher quality than my 1999. However, it is still not what anyone would consider "great" from a quality standpoint.

To respond to the second part of your statement, no, I have had ZERO quality issues of any kind with my TA. It has been a wonderful car from that standpoint...incredibly cheap to maintain, and fast and stylish. However I will not venture to say that it is a "high quality" vehicle. If it was, I wouldn't have been motivated to completely redo the stock interior with all the leatherwork I did. Now it's as nice as any BMW. But that's beside the point anyway.

Brembos aren't good enough for you? What brakes do you have on your fbody?

I was speaking in comparison to the GT500's competition...where, despite the fact that it has Brembos...it does not fare well in braking performance.

A name alone doesn't guarantee stellar performance. Lots of cars that come equipped with Brembos don't brake all that well. Sizing and application matter too.

I have ridden in a 2007.

:hail:

Sounds like you're an expert then. :rolleyes:

Unit you are not going to win this one... These guys will always find something wrong with the GT 500. You and I know the real deal.

If it was, I wouldn't have been motivated to completely redo the stock interior with all the leatherwork I did. Now it's as nice as any BMW. But that's beside the point anyway.





Leather doesn't make a car have a nice interior. A T/A with great leather still doesn't have a nice interior.

Leather doesn't make a car have a nice interior. A T/A with great leather still doesn't have a nice interior.

How do you know? You haven't been in it. I don't venture to say that simply replacing the cheap leather on the seats with good leather makes the TA interior "as nice as any BMW". That's moronic. There's ALOT more to it than that.

Unit you are not going to win this one... These guys will always find something wrong with the GT 500. You and I know the real deal.

Wow...here's a gem.

Care to bestow upon us lowly peasants your infinite wisdom by explaining what "the real deal" is?

Care to bestow upon us lowly peasants your infinite wisdom by explaining what "the real deal" is?

No I don't. Thanks for asking...:eyes:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/texas-members/1101820-g-force-kb-2-8h-2009-shelby-gt500-w-dyno-video.html

No I don't. Thanks for asking...:eyes:

OH TEH NOES!!1!!11 TEH ROLLEYES!!!1!!1!!!!one

I hope I haven't offended you oh great and powerful keeper of the "real deal".

:eyes: <--- OH NOES THERE IT IS AGAIN!!1!!1!!!

I like the 2010's. can't wait to start seeing them around where i live. Once I see all 3 of the new muscle cars running around here i'll be one happy dude.

I love the GT500 and I do think is a good car for the money.

Low 12 second car,with good handling(yes I do think it's going to handle good considering how the GT is doing),and have a motor that can handle 800rwhp+ thats a very good deal in my book and theirs not alot of cars that can offer that....other than the vette.

Also the car is going to lose 80lbs later on with the aluminum version of the engine helping it improve handling and 1/4 mile time.

I hope I haven't offended you oh great and powerful keeper of the "real deal".



The period goes before the last quotation mark. That offended me. :D

College registration open now for summer classes. :chug:

The period goes before the last quotation mark. That offended me. :D

College registration open now for summer classes. :chug:

Haha...and you're wrong there too.

http://www.home.sol.se/plusn/fotball.gif

Nice try anyway.

Do you actually have anything of value to add to this thread or are you just here for our amusement?

I'd just like to know so I can stop wasting my time (and others time) on you and move on.

No value here.

How do you know? You haven't been in it. I don't venture to say that simply replacing the cheap leather on the seats with good leather makes the TA interior "as nice as any BMW". That's moronic. There's ALOT more to it than that.





Then would you care to ellaborate?

Then would you care to ellaborate?

If you sincerely are interested in my car, PM me and i'll happily send you some pics and info. I really don't want to waste everyone's time going on about my car in a thread about the GT500...we're already way off course here.

If you sincerely are interested in my car, PM me and i'll happily send you some pics and info. I really don't want to waste everyone's time going on about my car in a thread about the GT500...we're already way off course here.

Whoa whoa. You make a ridiculous claim saying that your interior is on par with any bmw, and now you want call others out on steering off course??

Prove it.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2uo56j4.jpg

Whoa whoa. You make a ridiculous claim saying that your interior is on par with any bmw, and now you want call others out on steering off course??

Prove it.

Alrighty then.

Let it be noted, you asked for it. I will not be blamed for this thread veering WAY off course. My comment about my interior was simply an aside used to make a point.

List of stuff done:
-All surfaces wrapped in vinyl or leather.
-Extensive seamwork throughout (armrests, gauge cluster, center console, a-pillars)
-New leather shift boot, e-brake boot, console door wrap.
-Custom leather wrapped and heated Recaro racing seats.
-silver metal-look radio bezel, shifter console trim, lower door trim and door handle trim
-all fasteners replaced (all plastic clips replaced with metal retainers or screws)
-two layers of sound deadening material throughout
-layer of foam added underneath all trim to eliminate rattles

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/blakbird24/interior.jpg?t=1240008227

That looks really good. :cheers:

Alrighty then.

Let it be noted, you asked for it. I will not be blamed for this thread veering WAY off course. My comment about my interior was simply an aside used to make a point.

List of stuff done:
-All surfaces wrapped in vinyl or leather.
-Extensive seamwork throughout (armrests, gauge cluster, center console, a-pillars)
-New leather shift boot, e-brake boot, console door wrap.
-Custom leather wrapped and heated Recaro racing seats.
-silver metal-look radio bezel, shifter console trim, lower door trim and door handle trim
-all fasteners replaced (all plastic clips replaced with metal retainers or screws)
-two layers of sound deadening material throughout
-layer of foam added underneath all trim to eliminate rattles

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/blakbird24/interior.jpg?t=1240008227

That's a crappy looking steeing wheel.

Is that a '03 Cobra gearshift handle? :lol:

Unit you are not going to win this one... These guys will always find something wrong with the GT 500. You and I know the real deal.

I just find it funny that people don't know WTF they are talking about yet they have so much hate for a car. I've "ridden in one". Give me a break.
The internet is hysterical sometimes.

Is that a '03 Cobra gearshift handle? :lol:

Looks like a C6 knob to me.
Wowwww a regular Fbody with GTO seats and red upholstery....you've set the new bar for luxury pony cars that cost less than 10 grand now. :eyes:

That's a crappy looking steeing wheel.

You got that right. The gauges look out of place too.

Looks like a C6 knob to me.
Wowwww a regular Fbody with GTO seats and red upholstery....you've set the new bar for luxury pony cars that cost less than 10 grand now.

Why so much hate? I simply posted what was requested based on a comment I made just to support a point, and now you want to get into debate about the interior of MY car?

Really...think about it. That's a rather poorly thought out comment.

I just find it funny that people don't know WTF they are talking about yet they have so much hate for a car. I've "ridden in one". Give me a break.
The internet is hysterical sometimes.

Oh give me a break. You've really turned into an ass these days. Your car is every bit the piece of shit that you claim mine is...so what makes you so much better?

How many GT500's have you driven? I already know the answer...but if you're going to talk so tough, lay it out there.

You got that right. The gauges look out of place too.



Why so much hate? I simply posted what was requested based on a comment I made just to support a point, and now you want to get into debate about the interior of MY car?

Really...think about it. That's a rather poorly thought out comment.

I made the "poorly thought out comment" when you made the very "poorly thought out comment" saying that your car is just as nice as a BMW.....when its not. Have you ever been inside a real luxury car? BMW, MB, Lexus, etc?

I made the "poorly thought out comment" when you made the very "poorly thought out comment" saying that your car is just as nice as a BMW.....when its not. Have you ever been inside a real luxury car? BMW, MB, Lexus, etc?

First - You have no idea how nice or not nice my car is. You've never seen it in person...let alone sat or ridden in it.

Second - Interior quality is highly subjective. The "nice as any BMW" comment didn't come from me. That came from a BMW DEALER...my neighbor, who is one of the biggest fans of my new interior that i've come across. He would beg to differ with anyone who wants to claim that my interior is not as nice as a BMW. And, with apologies to you fine folks, i'll take the opinion of a guy who drives any BMW he wants on a daily basis over the opinions of a bunch of nerds behind keyboards who have probably never touched such a car.

So to answer your final question, yes I have been inside a "real" luxury car. I come from a pretty well off family, and therefore have enjoyed them my entire life, thank you. BMW is my favorite, despite not being as fancy as MB or Jag and the like, they have more character and a harder edge (though that edge is dulling with time) than the others. MB is junk these days, and Lexus is JUST NOW starting to add some excitement to their styling. If I were in the market for such a car, i'd be tempted to go with Infiniti or Acura over the above, short of an M6 of course.

Alrighty then.

Let it be noted, you asked for it. I will not be blamed for this thread veering WAY off course. My comment about my interior was simply an aside used to make a point.

List of stuff done:
-All surfaces wrapped in vinyl or leather.
-Extensive seamwork throughout (armrests, gauge cluster, center console, a-pillars)
-New leather shift boot, e-brake boot, console door wrap.
-Custom leather wrapped and heated Recaro racing seats.
-silver metal-look radio bezel, shifter console trim, lower door trim and door handle trim
-all fasteners replaced (all plastic clips replaced with metal retainers or screws)
-two layers of sound deadening material throughout
-layer of foam added underneath all trim to eliminate rattles

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/blakbird24/interior.jpg?t=1240008227

That looks awesome bro.

That looks awesome bro.

Thank you sir.

Oh give me a break. You've really turned into an ass these days. Your car is every bit the piece of shit that you claim mine is...so what makes you so much better?

How many GT500's have you driven? I already know the answer...but if you're going to talk so tough, lay it out there.

What kind of idiot argues with the ADMIN of the board.

Before you get started, I've owned three F-bodies and the they don't compare to the performance of the 03/04 Cobras let alone the 2007+ GT500's. Both cars are $15K cars wrapped around $10-15K motors. Mod for mod and $$$ for $$$ GM can't touch the 03/04 and GT500 mustangs.

I have driven 2 and have a 2010 GT500 on order, need me to post the purchase agreement or is my word good enough.

What kind of idiot argues with the ADMIN of the board.



So in your eyes since he is a Admin he can't be wrong and whatever he saids is correct?

Doesn't matter who or what you are, this is a message board.

So in your eyes since he is a Admin he can't be wrong and whatever he saids is correct?

Doesn't matter who or what you are, this is a message board.

No, actually he provides a place for us to have an opinion and we arent paying to be here, so wheather you want to admit it or not he's still 51%.

Your point is valid, his isnt. Taking pokes at people because you can't admit you're bias is wrong regardless.

unit is no longer an administrator on LS1tech, just FYI. But, I am a moderator. There is nothing wrong with arguing with a mod or admin on here as long as its a good debate. Anything more than that could get you in trouble no matter who you're talking to.

Before you get started, I've owned three F-bodies and the they don't compare to the performance of the 03/04 Cobras let alone the 2007+ GT500's. Both cars are $15K cars wrapped around $10-15K motors. Mod for mod and $$$ for $$$ GM can't touch the 03/04 and GT500 mustangs.

I have driven 2 and have a 2010 GT500 on order, need me to post the purchase agreement or is my word good enough.

What does any of this have to do with whether or not the car is a POS? You can have a supercharger, turbocharger, or just a big ass motor in a pos, that doesn't change what it is. A mustang is 100% every bit as rudimentary as an f-body. If you call my TA a POS, you'd look like a moron trying to say a Terminator is any better. It may or may not be faster, but it's still a POS.

No, actually he provides a place for us to have an opinion and we arent paying to be here, so wheather you want to admit it or not he's still 51%.

Your point is valid, his isnt. Taking pokes at people because you can't admit you're bias is wrong regardless.

Admins are just as much fair game as anyone else. The main difference is that Admins and (for the most part) Moderators don't portray themselves as you have here. They can carry on a mature conversation without resulting to personal insults when they can't hang. They can realize when they are out of their league and bow out. Most importantly, they have the ability to swallow their pride and stay silent in the face of stupidity in order to keep threads under control. The lack of these attributes is, i'm sure, at least in part responsible for some former moderators having lost their titles (that's not directed at anyone involved in this thread, but I do know of a few past moderators that rightfully are no longer holding that title).

A good example is Sarge's post above...and his previous posts really. Notice how he doesn't use words like "idiot" in his post. Though he clearly was thinking in that direction in replying to me...he spoke with respect. I, in turn, replied respectfully. I now have a more positive opinion of him because of the way he replied.

See how that works? Hopefully you're learning something here.

And as for the last part of your outburst...when have I denied bias? I'm as bias as any owner of a performance-oriented car. I chose my car many years ago because I liked it the most of all the choices I had. That makes me bias towards my car. You are biased (obviously) towards your current ride, just as Unit is his. I believe you are insinuating that I am a "fanboy". If you really think that, you haven't been paying attention to this thread at all. You can't just enter a thread at page 7, and start posting hard talk expecting to be taken seriously. You end up looking like a dumbass that way.

What does any of this have to do with whether or not the car is a POS? You can have a supercharger, turbocharger, or just a big ass motor in a pos, that doesn't change what it is. A mustang is 100% every bit as rudimentary as an f-body. If you call my TA a POS, you'd look like a moron trying to say a Terminator is any better. It may or may not be faster, but it's still a POS.



Admins are just as much fair game as anyone else. The main difference is that Admins and (for the most part) Moderators don't portray themselves as you have here. They can carry on a mature conversation without resulting to personal insults when they can't hang. They can realize when they are out of their league and bow out. Most importantly, they have the ability to swallow their pride and stay silent in the face of stupidity in order to keep threads under control. The lack of these attributes is, i'm sure, at least in part responsible for some former moderators having lost their titles (that's not directed at anyone involved in this thread, but I do know of a few past moderators that rightfully are no longer holding that title).

A good example is Sarge's post above...and his previous posts really. Notice how he doesn't use words like "idiot" in his post. Though he clearly was thinking in that direction in replying to me...he spoke with respect. I, in turn, replied respectfully. I now have a more positive opinion of him because of the way he replied.

See how that works? Hopefully you're learning something here.

And as for the last part of your outburst...when have I denied bias? I'm as bias as any owner of a performance-oriented car. I chose my car many years ago because I liked it the most of all the choices I had. That makes me bias towards my car. You are biased (obviously) towards your current ride, just as Unit is his. I believe you are insinuating that I am a "fanboy". If you really think that, you haven't been paying attention to this thread at all. You can't just enter a thread at page 7, and start posting hard talk expecting to be taken seriously. You end up looking like a dumbass that way.

aww yay you respect me LOL.

But seriously though, the staff here and 97% of its members are generally good people but just like in real life we all have our ups and downs. Good days and bad days. That is why we (the staff here) will not just instantly give you a perma-ban for arguing with one of us. I like all of you guys (even though we all have our disagreements) and have tons of respect for guys like Blackbird who modify their cars and do it very well.

I'll be the first to admit I drive a POS ('89 LX) even though it used to be decently quick til I blew it up, it didn't really matter. It was still a piece....I was NOT a fan of the interior whatsoever and just haven't done anything about it because it was more of a track car than anything else.

Now, lets all have a cold one, on Blackbird24 since he is feeling so generous tonight :chug:




-Chris

What does any of this have to do with whether or not the car is a POS? You can have a supercharger, turbocharger, or just a big ass motor in a pos, that doesn't change what it is. A mustang is 100% every bit as rudimentary as an f-body. If you call my TA a POS, you'd look like a moron trying to say a Terminator is any better. It may or may not be faster, but it's still a POS.



Admins are just as much fair game as anyone else. The main difference is that Admins and (for the most part) Moderators don't portray themselves as you have here. They can carry on a mature conversation without resulting to personal insults when they can't hang. They can realize when they are out of their league and bow out. Most importantly, they have the ability to swallow their pride and stay silent in the face of stupidity in order to keep threads under control. The lack of these attributes is, i'm sure, at least in part responsible for some former moderators having lost their titles (that's not directed at anyone involved in this thread, but I do know of a few past moderators that rightfully are no longer holding that title).

A good example is Sarge's post above...and his previous posts really. Notice how he doesn't use words like "idiot" in his post. Though he clearly was thinking in that direction in replying to me...he spoke with respect. I, in turn, replied respectfully. I now have a more positive opinion of him because of the way he replied.

See how that works? Hopefully you're learning something here.

And as for the last part of your outburst...when have I denied bias? I'm as bias as any owner of a performance-oriented car. I chose my car many years ago because I liked it the most of all the choices I had. That makes me bias towards my car. You are biased (obviously) towards your current ride, just as Unit is his. I believe you are insinuating that I am a "fanboy". If you really think that, you haven't been paying attention to this thread at all. You can't just enter a thread at page 7, and start posting hard talk expecting to be taken seriously. You end up looking like a dumbass that way.



Oh give me a break. You've really turned into an ass these days. Your car is every bit the piece of shit that you claim mine is...so what makes you so much better?

Yup, seems like alot of respect to me. Pot meet kettle.

How many GT500's have you driven? I already know the answer...but if you're going to talk so tough, lay it out there.

Well let's hear it then. Don't act like you know the answer when you clearly do not. Honestly, you're a hater...a bench racer and a magazine racer. You have zero experience with this car or any GT500 and yet you flap your gums like you're an expert. It's pathetic. Having "ridden in one" makes it that much more ridiculous. What's next? Maybe you've "seen one" and you've drawn conclusions based upon that? Maybe you've "read about one" in a magazine somewhere? :supergay:

Flat out pathetic, seriously.

The ironic thing is that I love the LSx platform and you can't take off your blinders long enough to understand that there is a world outside of it.
Mr. "I grew up in a wealthy family but I bitch like a 9yo school girl about a $50K car?" :jest: $50K is nothing for a car these days.

Do me a favor Chris, post up a pic of your ex-Ford GT. I'd like to hear how it's over-priced an an under performing car from a guy with a 300hp fbody.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c112/cbonds14/S5030161.jpg

Whoopsies... :emb: :D

I think someone has read about a Ford GT in a magazine once or has read something from a pimply faced 16yo kid online about it.
That must make it reality.

When I talk about something, I actually know WTF I'm talking about based upon real-world experience. For example...

http://i39.tinypic.com/1zwlzja.jpg

No magazine racing here. :nono:

http://i43.tinypic.com/30c2lmv.jpg

I actually won a little plaque. :lol:

Whoopsies... :emb: :D

its still in my post :devil:
hahah!

its still in my post :devil:
hahah!

Don't think I can't have that edited out! :D

Looks to me like someone else is "well off" Chris...and self-made...not some kid who grew up in a "wealthy family." Funny how a guy from a wealthy family has a problem with a $50K car. What a joke.

Don't think I can't have that edited out! :D

unit213-> view user profile-> edit user profile-> ban user-> permanent ban (ban never lifted)-> profit. :D

You took your buddy's GT to a car show? LOL. I forgot the one you took was the same color as mine :)

unit213-> view user profile-> edit user profile-> ban user-> permanent ban (ban never lifted)-> profit. :D


I dare you! :devil:

You'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong! :D



You took your buddy's GT to a car show? LOL. I forgot the one you took was the same color as mine :)

Fo' shizzle. Actually, I just wanted to hang out with some friends and they were at a local spot that has a car show. I parked it...and won a little award. :lol:

That car belongs to Jacques Nasser...former CEO of Ford Motor Company. He's is a great guy. We were talking about "Terminators" years before anyone knew about them.
I find it funny that people who don't know anything about the automotive industry run their mouths like they do.

Looks to me like someone else is "well off" Chris...and self-made...not some kid who grew up in a "wealthy family." Funny how a guy from a wealthy family has a problem with a $50K car. What a joke.

Wow...I remember when you used to be able to act like a grown-up. What happened?

You sir, are a child. You are no better than 100% of the Terminator owners i've known in my time, you give your own car a bad name. That's a shame. Then you wonder why it's tough for me to give respect to 03/04 Cobras...it's thanks to guys like you.

My rules have always been if you can't conduct yourself maturely in a discussion with me, i'm not going to waste my time with you.

So that said, i'm done with you.

Wow...I remember when you used to be able to act like a grown-up. What happened?

You sir, are a child. You are no better than 100% of the Terminator owners i've known in my time, you give your own car a bad name. That's a shame. Then you wonder why it's tough for me to give respect to 03/04 Cobras...it's thanks to guys like you.

My rules have always been if you can't conduct yourself maturely in a discussion with me, i'm not going to waste my time with you.

So that said, i'm done with you.

I owned a Terminator though.....:cry:



:jest:
this thread went to shit long ago.....

I dare you! :devil:

You'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong! :D




Fo' shizzle. Actually, I just wanted to hang out with some friends and they were at a local spot that has a car show. I parked it...and won a little award. :lol:

That car belongs to Jacques Nasser...former CEO of Ford Motor Company. He's is a great guy. We were talking about "Terminators" years before anyone knew about them.
I find it funny that people who don't know anything about the automotive industry run their mouths like they do.

You dared me! :jest:
LOL!

I owned a Terminator though.....:cry:

:jest:
this thread went to shit long ago.....

Yeah but I didn't know you then. You may have been the same way. I dunno. You're fine now.

And yes, this thread is so lost at this point that we might as well declare it the SS Minnow.

You dared me! :jest:
LOL!

Check your PM. :devil:

http://i44.tinypic.com/jzcrqt.jpg

And yes, this thread is so lost at this point that we might as well declare it the SS Minnow.

That's actually pretty funny! :lol:

Check your PM. :devil:

http://i44.tinypic.com/jzcrqt.jpg

I'm sorry sir! I just couldn't pass the opportunity up :jest:

Wow...I remember when you used to be able to act like a grown-up. What happened?

I ran into a babbler such as yourself.


You sir, are a child.

I'm a 6'7 250lb child. :devil:


You are no better than 100% of the Terminator owners i've known in my time, you give your own car a bad name.

...and you're no better than 100% of the fbody owners I've know in my time. You give car enthusiasts in general a bad name with your magazine racing.

Then you wonder why it's tough for me to give respect to 03/04 Cobras...it's thanks to guys like you.

Grab a lane...and learn respect.


My rules have always been if you can't conduct yourself maturely in a discussion with me, i'm not going to waste my time with you.

Great, move along and take your magazines with you junior. We represent real world experience here at 'Tech...not what we've read on the internet or in magazines. :nono:

So that said, i'm done with you.

Convenient...since you're looking more and more foolish by the second.

I'm sorry sir! I just couldn't pass the opportunity up :jest:

Neither could I! :punch: ;)

Neither could I! :punch: ;)

what'd you do to me :(

what'd you do to me :(

Nothing....yet. :devil: I'm just a regular member. I have no mod or admin
powers. :angel:

Nothing....yet. :devil: I'm just a regular member. I have no mod or admin
powers. :angel:

I'm scared.....LOL

I'm scared.....LOL

Ooooohhhh...throwing fuel on the fire too! :chug:

Ooooohhhh...throwing fuel on the fire too! :chug:

no....I really am ::emb::(

Wow....

Wow....

Yeah dude...I know. It's bad. :argh:

What does any of this have to do with whether or not the car is a POS? You can have a supercharger, turbocharger, or just a big ass motor in a pos, that doesn't change what it is. A mustang is 100% every bit as rudimentary as an f-body. If you call my TA a POS, you'd look like a moron trying to say a Terminator is any better. It may or may not be faster, but it's still a POS.





And that is exactly the reason why your car's interior is not as nice as a BMW.

And that is exactly the reason why your car's interior is not as nice as a BMW.

I suppose this is all semantics...but the statement of mine that you quoted doesn't really support what you are saying. My statement was referring to the car as a whole. So changing the power level of the car doesn't elevate it to the level of a nicer car. Changing the interior doesn't either. So yes, if that's what you are getting at, then I agree...my CAR is not as nice as a BMW just because it has an interior that is. HOWEVER...my rudimentary car CAN have an interior as nice as a BMW without the car having to be up to that standard. See?

Now...I really wonder if I got all that out in a way that makes sense.

So basically what we've learned from this thread is that modded cars rock, stock cars suck and the Mustang GT500 isn't as nice as a BMW just because it's more expensive........miss anything? Oh and don't dare mods to ban you.......:D

So basically what we've learned from this thread is that modded cars rock, stock cars suck and the Mustang GT500 isn't as nice as a BMW just because it's more expensive........miss anything? Oh and don't dare mods to ban you.......:D

You might be close. Please take a relook and try again.

This thread had promise, but I've just lost about 7 IQ points reading the last few days worth...

Grab a lane...and learn respect.



Aight fine, but If I win, I get keep the cash, AND the respect.

To some people...that's just more important.

Its not a T56 anymore unit....TR-6060.
I'm not impressed by the performance for the price, but the potential is astounding.

Anything can look good on paper...

It's real world performance that matters. 540 horsepower means nothing if the car is incapable of assassinating the quarter mile.

The car looks fantastic, but come on my bosses car-trailer truck makes around 540hp (turbo diesel) and runs I'm guessing in the high 14's, he spent around 50K+ but that truck hauls cars like you wouldn't believe. The Shelby GT500 is supposed to haul ass, and it doesn't...:eyes:

Anything can look good on paper...

It's real world performance that matters. 540 horsepower means nothing if the car is incapable of assassinating the quarter mile.

The car looks fantastic, but come on my bosses car-trailer truck makes around 540hp (turbo diesel) and runs I'm guessing in the high 14's, he spent around 50K+ but that truck hauls cars like you wouldn't believe. The Shelby GT500 is supposed to haul ass, and it doesn't...:eyes:

Well there you go...I knew there had to be more people out there who get what I was talking about. Thank you.

I still think the car is cool as hell. I just think, to put it in journalist talk, that it missed it's target. It's funny how things got so blown out of proportion over a simple opinion such as that.

So what will all of you do when GM is gone? More complaining I suppose.
You guys must bitch about fbodies all day, every day. Lord knows they are full of short-comings.
I guess it's irrelevant because they are extremely cheap, in price tag and in quality. MSRP must
be all that matters since there is an awful lot of crying about it. :cry:

No disrespect but we aren't exactly all multimillionaires, like you clearly are.
The beauty of what I thought Ls1tech was designed to be, was a place to showcase and display the evolution of the small block chevy engine and it's laden demographic, and allow members to learn from others mistakes, see what others have done, get feedback and provide some of their own.

The website was free, meaning cost effective to anyone monetarily capable of affording the internet and able to do basic website navigation. We all come from different backgrounds, financially, heritage, beliefs, and values. I find your "yuppy" responses belittling those who might not be able to afford a 50k car but practice daily in your website and have become a community around it, very off-putting. The average income in America is 42K/ yr, and unemployment is nearly at an all-time high.

Hot Rodding was never intended to be who has the most money, but who is the best and brightest spender, able to stretch their budget as far as they can and make the best out of what they have. I have been a member on here for a few years now and enjoyed nearly every minute of it. I have even done some site recruiting, for me and I'm sure many others Ls1tech has been the premier social networking tool for the late model GM enthusiast. It doesn't bother me so much that you have a cobra in your signature, and never seem to be a positive speaker on the frontier of GM cars. Even though I do from time to time wonder how it is not considered a "Conflict of interest".

As a college student, Lt1 owner, unpaid intern, and loyalist to the GM I am upset by how condescending this comment above is. Not that some of the other members posts aren't just as offensive.

The spirit of competition will always lead to greater engineering strides and even greater rivalries and debates. That said this is a forum, where everyone bench races, talks shit, and argues... it's beautiful, however this argument is built upon the viscous grounds of absolute hearsay bullshit by a multitude under-qualified theorists.

There is only one proper way to settle this, drag strip side by side run. Stock Shelby GT500 vs Stock Camaro 1SS. Then and only then can any of this hold any water.

Either way, I will remain an avid Ls1tech member, but will force myself to bypass my absolute GM belief system, reality, and god. Hahaha what a stupid stupid thread.

P.S. With GM gone won't that mean Ls1tech won't be too far behind??.... To Careerbuilder.com we go one endless line of pride swallowers

No disrespect but we aren't exactly all multimillionaires, like you clearly are.

He's not a millionare. He just plays one on the internet. He is of the belief that the power your car makes equates to your rank in life. Nevermind that his car is just as much a POS as any other 4th gen LT1/LS1 that you find on this site...it's better and he's better than everyone else because of a 2.2l KB and a wet kit. He used to be a great member with good points, who knew the concept of respect. Now he just feels that he's too good to be questioned, and instantly resorts to personal insults when he realizes that he's losing the argument.

Now Sarge on the other hand...he may actually be a millionare.

Anything can look good on paper...

It's real world performance that matters. 540 horsepower means nothing if the car is incapable of assassinating the quarter mile.

The car looks fantastic, but come on my bosses car-trailer truck makes around 540hp (turbo diesel) and runs I'm guessing in the high 14's, he spent around 50K+ but that truck hauls cars like you wouldn't believe. The Shelby GT500 is supposed to haul ass, and it doesn't...:eyes:

WHAT!!????
Stop with all this logical and open minded thinking, I mean come on the GT500 can make so much more power with just some bolt-on's, who cares if it doesn't make it any faster, you will still win all the internet and locker room debates!

So whats wrong about a 48k car that can run low 12s and handle good and engine can handle 800rwhp?

I mean what other car is close or beats the gt500 other than the vette?

None. The same people that talk about how they don't worry about potential when buying a car are the same ones with either considerable work done to their own cars, or are talking about supercharging a new Camaro.

You might be close. Please take a relook and try again.

I read it all, after page 4 it gets pretty redundant and becomes the age old ford vs.chevy (ok pontiac in this case) debate. Pretty boring all said. Anybody in here want to actually talk about the GT500 and forget about the pissing contest?

So whats wrong about a 48k car that can run low 12s and handle good and engine can handle 800rwhp?

I mean what other car is close or beats the gt500 other than the vette?


The Camaro SS, Challenger SRT8, and 03/04 Cobra. All are close in performance to the GT500 for at least $10k less. All have at least 100hp less also.

He's not a millionare. He just plays one on the internet. He is of the belief that the power your car makes equates to your rank in life. Nevermind that his car is just as much a POS as any other 4th gen LT1/LS1 that you find on this site...it's better and he's better than everyone else because of a 2.2l KB and a wet kit. He used to be a great member with good points, who knew the concept of respect. Now he just feels that he's too good to be questioned, and instantly resorts to personal insults when he realizes that he's losing the argument.

Now Sarge on the other hand...he may actually be a millionare.

I have to agree, lately I have lost most of my respect for Unit. Sorry to say it, but some of his posts/points/reactions are not what a admin should be doing....

I have to agree, lately I have lost most of my respect for Unit. Sorry to say it, but some of his posts/points/reactions are not what a admin should be doing....

Again, unit is no longer an administrator. Whoever removed his rights didn't change his status.

The Camaro SS, Challenger SRT8, and 03/04 Cobra. All are close in performance to the GT500 for at least $10k less. All have at least 100hp less also.

The GT500 is not the best car for everyone, but it's the perfect car for some.

The Camaro SS, Challenger SRT8, and 03/04 Cobra. All are close in performance to the GT500 for at least $10k less. All have at least 100hp less also.

Well the 03/04 cobras are used and the Gt500 is way faster....the Challenger Srt8 is not really close in 1/4.I guess the closest is the Camaro SS I can see mid 12.6 1/4 mile at best other than that nothing is really close to being a good deal,well only the vette is.

The GT500 really seems like a good deal and potential always matters.

Well the 03/04 cobras are used and the Gt500 is way faster

Huh?! Those Cobras ran 12.8's and 12.9's in magazies just like the new GT500 did. They ran mid twelves with good drivers just like the GT500 will. The fact that these are now 5-6 year old cars just drives my point home even better.

....the Challenger Srt8 is not really close in 1/4.

Wow. SRT8's have run 13.0's and 13.1's in the hands of crappy magazine drivers. That's pretty damn close if you ask me.

Huh?! Those Cobras ran 12.8's and 12.9's in magazies just like the new GT500 did. They ran mid twelves with good drivers just like the GT500 will. The fact that these are now 5-6 year old cars just drives my point home even better.



Wow. SRT8's have run 13.0's and 13.1's in the hands of crappy magazine drivers. That's pretty damn close if you ask me.

This 540hp GT500 is mid 12s normal,low 12s with a badass driver.

I guess by your logic the LS3 corvette is a bad deal because the c5z06 is just as good?

The Srt8 is a high 12 second car and I can see it being mid 12's car with a badass driver.

I still don't see any other car the performs close to the gt500 for the money other than the vette.

This 540hp GT500 is mid 12s normal,low 12s with a badass driver.

I guess by your logic the LS3 corvette is a bad deal because the c5z06 is just as good?

The Srt8 is a high 12 second car and I can see it being mid 12's car with a badass driver.

I still don't see any other car the performs close to the gt500 for the money other than the vette.


Again speculation! what constitutes a good driver? just because motor trend drivers aren't on par with our expectations or exaggerated abilities does not determine that the car is capable of greater feats.

I would go so far as to say that the car reviewing magazine drivers accurately represent what we can expect to experience in owning a car. Not all of us are the Mario Andretti's we so shamelessly claim ourselves to be online.

Having an average or near average driver will give the public a feel for what the car can do in a real world environment. Even the fast test results do not show what the car can do on the street, as there are hundreds of thousands xxxxxx of variables that can positively and adversely effect the cars performance. Since none of us drive consistently on road as flat and well prepped as a drag strip why should we assume that some freak ford racing driver, who can get that car into sub-mid 12's translates to our potential experience with that or any vehicle?

Someone close this F*&^cking thread please!!! It is just like the other million threads on this site where someone says mustang and tensions fly.

This 540hp GT500 is mid 12s normal,low 12s with a badass driver.

Just as Phirepower said...you have no evidence to support this. WHAT WE KNOW NOW...WHAT IS FACT...is that the new GT500 ran a 12.9 in the hands of a magazine driver. To be fair I compared the magazine times of the cars I put up against it. Those cars have and will run better times also...but comparing speculative times is what ricers do.

What the car will run in the future is pure speculation. I could speculate that the Camaro SS will run low 12's. You could argue i'm crazy, but that's about the extent of what you can do to counter it. We don't know what it will run with great drivers and perfect conditions. We'll have to wait to find out.

I guess by your logic the LS3 corvette is a bad deal because the c5z06 is just as good?

That's not my logic. The C5Z06 carries only 30hp less...not the MORE THAN 100hp difference that the other cars I used in my comparison have.

The Srt8 is a high 12 second car and I can see it being mid 12's car with a badass driver.

Here's a good one...the SRT8 ran 13.0 in magazine tests. The GT500 ran ONE TENTH faster. Yet you claim that the GT500 will run low twelves in the hands of a perfect driver, and the SRT8 will only run mid-twelves?

Do you have any proof or even evidence to support this?

I still don't see any other car the performs close to the gt500 for the money other than the vette.

See this...why do I even bother to respond to you? I gave you three examples of exactly what you asked for, you were unable to show proof against them. Now you conveniently forget about them and make this gem of a claim.

All this, and someone else in this thread had the nerve to call me a ricer!

Spectacular.

Here's a good one...the SRT8 ran 13.0 in magazine tests. The GT500 ran ONE TENTH faster. Yet you claim that the GT500 will run low twelves in the hands of a perfect driver, and the SRT8 will only run mid-twelves?

Do you have any proof or even evidence to support this?





Final thoughts/comments......
Look at the trap speed of the two cars. The SRT will trap a max of 109-110 while the GT500 has trapped as high as 115. The 115 is indicative of a low 12 second 1/4 mile time.