Road Racing - Reliable power (cam) upgrades for roadrace LS1?

I've been searching on here and Google for the last hour+ and haven't found it believe it or not. Here's my situation, I have a 2300 lb car with an LS1 swap that I race regularly both low and high speed autox mostly plus open track events. It's a bone stock '02 LS1 w/ cold air & K&N cone filter and dual 2.5" w/ x-pipe and I'm out gunned by friggin EVOs and even a new M3 so I'm contemplating upgrading my power. No idea where I'm at but it traps 118 MPH w/ about 2530 lb race weight give or take. I drive it to the track which range from 80 to 200 miles one way so I need something very reliable and able to get me home. I'm thinking a cam upgrade would be the next logical choice so I'm looking for recommendations. All I seem to find is a 'mild' cam but I'm a bit ignorant in this department so looking for part numbers, manufacturers, spring upgrade requirements, etc. I'm also not looking to spend a small fortune on 'while I'm at it's' if that's possible.

PS - I already am painfully aware of the oiling issues so run overfull and have an accusump and oil cooler sitting in the garage waiting on the hose to hook them up.

Thanks
Cameron

most after market cams in a ls1 are still very reliable, maybe look into a tr 224 or a little bigger, good power all over and ive never had a problem with mine

What a coincidence! Thunder just put in all of the following (pasted a post from another forum). The reason I went with this cam was that I needed power from 3500-redline. You will hear plenty of people say that a road race cam needs to be "like a street cam" and "not a drag race cam".

It needs to be exactly what you need it to be. You need to figure out where you need power, and get a cam that makes power there. For autox and road race, it'll probably be 3500-7000. If your RPMs fall below 3500, you should probably be shifting to a lower gear. Plus, even the most crazy "peak" cams still make more power than stock all over the powerband, just perhaps not as much down low as another cam.


First, I gotta thank Thunder Racing. Was this something I could have done myself? Probably. However, Thunder did everything for me as part of a sponsor package. Good thing they did it. They caught potential problems I would have missed and were able to do little things to increase reliability that I would never have known about. Plus, they got the car in and out of their shop in under a week - pretty good considering there were 3 other cars in there at the time!

Here's what went in the car:

- 230/224 .575/.563 111LSA "Reverse Split" cam
- Comp Cams "925" double valve springs (new part from Comp)
- Tooled steel valve spring retainers (longer life than titanium)
- Comp 5/16" pushrods
- LS7 lifters
- New valve seats, retainers and seals
- New gaskets throughout (including front and rear main, which were both leaking)
- Manley double roller timing chain
- LS2 lifter trays
- ARP rod bolts
- Racetronix fuel pump and harness
- Prothane motor and tranny mounts
- New AN plumbing to evacuate coolant from #7&8 cylinders (evidence showed they were running hot)
- MSD spark plug wires
- Comp Cams trunion upgrage
- Improved Racing oil pan baffles
- Ported/polished LS3 oil pump, with high-pressure spring
- QuarterMaster 7.25" Optimum V triple disc clutch
- 7.25" button flywheel w/ stock flexplate
- QM 4.5"/5.5" hydraulic slave cylinder
- McLeod adjustable master cylinder
- Braided lines for all clutch hydraulics

Lots of stuff, but much of it will make the engine last longer. We found evidence of valve-to-piston contact. If I'd have been doing it myself, I'd have slapped the old heads right back on (the valves didn't "look" bent, but I don't know what to look for). Thunder happened to have another set of good heads lying around, and swapped them out for me. They setup the entire clutch for me (we had to make a custom mount for the slave, which we machined from the stock slave), which I would have spent weeks trying to get right.

We also found that I was just 1/4" from a blown head gasket on BOTH heads near those rear cylinders (the hot ones). We replaced the stock carbon gaskets with some 3-layer metal gaskets.

We started it up Wednesday night. It still has yet to be tuned (there right now), so the idle was "bad" to say the least. It basically surges and bucks itself into a stall within 30 seconds. But, it revs almost as quickly as a $20k race engine. I had to drive it a mile to the tuner, and found that the clutch is fine while moving. In the pits, it WON'T be fun. But, it's great otherwise.

Oh, one other thing. I ran for 2 seasons with the stock oil system and never had oil pressure drop. I ran 6.5 quarts of Redline 30. Also, a friend with an LS2 has a data logger that logged oil pressure - he never saw a drop from starvation either.

Not saying it never happens. But, it didn't happen to us. And, I've never talked to the actual person to whom it happened. It's always, "Some guy that my second cousin races with."

Too be honest , You have the horsepower to weight ratio covered pretty well.
Probably best to reevaluate the driver and or car setup.
Btw what type of car and setup do you have?

Yeah, something seems amiss to me too. An LS1 in a 2500lb car should be beating Evos and probably M3s. I do HPDEs and can run with Evos. M3s are faster in the corners. Mine has around 100fwhp more than a stock LS1. As for cams, mine (in sig) does very well. I'm far from the fastest car out there but a lot of people are surprised when they see a Camaro in their mirrors. I think that if my car weighed 1,000lbs less, it would be one of the faster ones.

Too be honest , You have the horsepower to weight ratio covered pretty well. Probably best to reevaluate the driver and or car setup. Btw what type of car and setup do you have?

It's a '72 240Z. Basically a gutted street car with decent suspension and slicks. In low speed autox it's no faster than with the old motor with 100+ less hp but in full track events power is king. I realize the car is faster than I am which I am constantly working on but I'm up against 425 WHP EVO, 450 HP / 1550 lb Lotus 7 clone, built C6 Z06's and the like. So with the stock roughly 350 crank hp I was thinking a cam could push to 400 crank hp and for a small investment I could shave a second or two off lap times. I am not even going to entertain the laundry list of stuff mentioned above as was thinking of just cam, springs, and tune.

An LS1 in a 2500lb car should be beating Evos and probably M3s.

Not 425 WHP EVO's ... or the new V8 M3


Not saying it never happens. But, it didn't happen to us. And, I've never talked to the actual person to whom it happened. It's always, "Some guy that my second cousin races with."

I've personally talked with two guys at the track who have spun bearings. I ran a track day and the oil came out sparkly at the end of the day. This is why I'm adding an accusump and oil cooler. I'm also on full slicks so my grip is relatively high.

Cameron

An accusump certainly doesn't hurt. I don't want you to NOT get one. They are relatively cheap insurance.

Is it brown? Do you run w Midwestern Council?

If so, skip the cam and bolt on some street tires. Then you can give me some competition in SS (Super Street).

Plus, I agree that slicks create more grip than the stock oiling system can handle.

There is also a pan baffle you could put in. I don't have one yet, but intend to put one in my C4 swap project.

If I'm right on where you are running I don't think a cam will give you a second or 2 (at Blackhawk or Autobahn). A competitor of mine had a heads/cam SS and I think he would agree that the power boost was not significant enough for a serious lap time reduction.

Is it brown? Do you run w Midwestern Council?

If so, skip the cam and bolt on some street tires. Then you can give me some competition in SS (Super Street).

Plus, I agree that slicks create more grip than the stock oiling system can handle.

There is also a pan baffle you could put in. I don't have one yet, but intend to put one in my C4 swap project.

If I'm right on where you are running I don't think a cam will give you a second or 2 (at Blackhawk or Autobahn). A competitor of mine had a heads/cam SS and I think he would agree that the power boost was not significant enough for a serious lap time reduction.

Yep that's me. What's SS as I thought I would be in SU if I ran my street tires? What kind of lap times are you running in SS? On slicks my best is 1:22.8 @ BHF and 1:13.8 @ Autobahn North and 1:4x something Autobahn South and I believe it's ~2 seconds slower with my Potenza RE01 street tires - as you know these are from a standing start so flying laps are a couple seconds faster. I'm surprised BHF would not benefit from more hp since there are a couple good straights where your WOT for quite a while.

Cameron

If you can run a 1:24 or 1:25 on street tires (over 140 tread-ware) , from a standing start you will clean up SS. I believe my class record there from the 1st event was 1:26.1 (or somewhere in the low 1:26s-they haven't posted the 2009 times on the site yet). Super Street has a displacement limit of 5.7 liters. You would have read the rules though to make sure you don't have any mods that will bump you to SU.

I'm not saying a cam won't help. I just don't think it will be worth a couple seconds. I'm not trying to discourage you, more power would help. I wish you luck in chasing down that evo! Todd beat him at BHF (by a hair), but that was in Cobra kit (as I'm sure you know). AWD is such a huge advantage. Those AWD/Turbo guys should really be in a class by themselves.

I'm not familiar w the M3 you are talking about. But with your times the older M3s are easy targets (they are for me).

Now that I've mentioned SS to you, maybe I shouldn't have. If you have the same (or more) power than me with a 1000 lb lighter car... I'm in big trouble!

I did have a fatal oil starvation issue that killed my old LS1. Could have just been plain old bad luck, I think I'm the only person that has killed one autocrossing.

I got the oil pan baffle that Subtle alluded to, and its in my replacement LS3. It looks like a quality piece, and I didn't have any issues at the last autocross I ran it on.

I haven't done the open track stuff yet, but I had the ASA cam which made its peak torque at 4,000 rpm and held it there to redline. I've got an evolution of that cam in my LS3 and it has an even better torque curve.

What other upgrades does it take to accommodate the ASA cam? Can you run it in an otherwise stock engine?

Thanks
Cameron

What other upgrades does it take to accommodate the ASA cam? Can you run it in an otherwise stock engine?

Thanks
Cameron

Yup, only requirement is to upgrade the valve springs to at least an LS6 spring.

Recently ran my cam only LS1 SS at Road America and I think it would have done better without the cam. Maybe not. It just didn't seem to have enough grunt coming out of a turn in 3rd gear. On the straights it was a monster though. I would think a set of long tubes and a LS6 intake would be good upgrades for your LS1(assuming you have an older LS1 with manifolds still).

Yup, only requirement is to upgrade the valve springs to at least an LS6 spring.

I'm planning possible winter upgrades so am going to hopefully revive this thread. So what about tuning? I've read where the ASA cam is really hard to tune due to the large overlap. Mine is otherwise completely stock with 1 3/4 primary short header (long tube dont fit unless I want to completely hand fabricate a set which I'm not up for at this point) and it's an '02 so already has the newer heads and LS6 intake. You say you have an 'evolution' of the ASA - what is this and where did it come from?

Thanks
Cameron

I'm planning possible winter upgrades so am going to hopefully revive this thread. So what about tuning? I've read where the ASA cam is really hard to tune due to the large overlap. Mine is otherwise completely stock with 1 3/4 primary short header (long tube dont fit unless I want to completely hand fabricate a set which I'm not up for at this point) and it's an '02 so already has the newer heads and LS6 intake. You say you have an 'evolution' of the ASA - what is this and where did it come from?

Thanks
Cameron

1. Tuning: If you have a good tuner, its not an issue. Mine idled, with the A/C / radio on. I don't know where you are located, but I know of some folks in Tennessee I'd recommend.

That cam was designed with wide open stock car exhaust in mind, so you won't see optimum numbers out of it unless your exhaust is pretty wide open. My only complaint about the cam was that it didn't hit its torque peak until 3K rpm, which wasn't ideal for the postage stamp autocross lots I usually run on. I imagine it would be much better for a roadcourse.

2. My current setup: I talked with Patrick G and he made some tweaks to make the ASA setup work better with the L92 - LS3 rectangular port heads. OTTOMH the duration split is a little wider, its got more lift (.610/.621) and on a 112 LSA with some advance.

Compared to the LS1 with the ASA it pulls like a freight train down low and doesn't run out of steam. However, keep in mind I've got different heads than you do and more cubic inches.

01badz28
The specs you provided aren't for the ASA cam.
The ASA cam has .525" lift on 110* center line with 226 degree intake and 236 degree exhaust duration and .050"
With Headers and loud mouth its a brute. stick on Cats lose 30hp. It needs a free flow exhaust

01badz28
The specs you provided aren't for the ASA cam.
The ASA cam has .525" lift on 110* center line with 226 degree intake and 236 degree exhaust duration and .050"
With Headers and loud mouth its a brute. stick on Cats lose 30hp. It needs a free flow exhaust

I've got 1 3/4" shorties and dual 2.5 exhaust w/ x-pipe and straight through Magnaflows. Total length of each exhaust leg is maybe 6' long. So is that free flow or would I be too restrictive? The ASA cam is attractive because it was designed by the factory which I believe know what they are doing and that it's easy on valve train, timing chain, etc due to low lift. Should I be looking elsewhere?

Cameron

01badz28
The specs you provided aren't for the ASA cam.
The ASA cam has .525" lift on 110* center line with 226 degree intake and 236 degree exhaust duration and .050"
With Headers and loud mouth its a brute. stick on Cats lose 30hp. It needs a free flow exhaust

Yup, take a look back through my posts. I was posting my cam specs, which is loosely based on the ASA.

I've got 1 3/4" shorties and dual 2.5 exhaust w/ x-pipe and straight through Magnaflows. Total length of each exhaust leg is maybe 6' long. So is that free flow or would I be too restrictive? The ASA cam is attractive because it was designed by the factory which I believe know what they are doing and that it's easy on valve train, timing chain, etc due to low lift. Should I be looking elsewhere?

Cameron

The cam likes next to no back pressure. I'd go with long tubes and a 3" exhaust if I were going to run that cam.

The positives you list are why I went with that cam. IMO I think it would have done really well on a wide open road course, but my engine failed (unrelated oiling issue) before I got the chance to try it out.

Problem is that the ASA cam was "cutting edge" back in the late 90s. This is 10 years later. Back then, we had analog bag phones and dialup internet. Things have progressed.

You can find cams that are easier on the valvetrain, but have better power profiles, that cost the same amount of money.