Negative Trader Feedback - True paypal story.....

**** Bye bye paypal, I opened an account with http://www.Moneybookers.com as it's one of ebay trusted sites for payments*****

I thought you all paypal users should read this, no exaggeration at all, and all info here is 100% true personal story.

Sold a T56 last February on ebay to a guy in Iowa (I had two T56s, sold one on ebay), now it took few good weeks to find out things that I will write here in few minutes :

1- Fedex ground delivery confiramtion shows package was delivered to buyer address at 3:47 PM , march 2nd.

2- Paypal website shows a DISPUTE was filed on MARCH 2ND for "Not as discribed" item at 4:39 PM THE SAME DAY OF THE DELIVERY (Less than one hour of delivery!!!!!!!! actualy 49 minutes counting the 2-3 minutes it took him to write the dispute and hit enter).

3- In his dispute he wrote : Internal damage but transmission seems to be externally SOUND.

Basically, it took him 49 minutes to get the package, unwrap it, OPEN THE TRANSMISSION and claim it isn't as described !!!!!!!! Fishy...

I immediately knew that something isn't right here especially when that T56 came out of my personal camaro with ZERO ISSUES, after many hours of thinking I thought to check if I still have the transmission part number from the pictures that I listed on ebay. One photo showed the number but I didn't have enough technology to get CLOSER to the number , so I had to involve some local guy for $20 to have him use his equipments to give me the number from the picture that I have.

After many letters between me and paypal I said : No problem, if he returns the tranny I will refund his full amount. why I said that? (Main reason is I wouldn't mind getting it back and resell it with no problem) but also Because paypal will not listen to the seller, if buyer files a dispute the seller can kiss their ass, that's what I found out. And, if you as a seller refuse to issue a refund, they will ask the buyer to ship the item back and when it's delivered paypal will refund him from your paypal account WEATHER YOU AGREE OR NOT, and if you choose NOT to sign and not to accept the package, it will go back to him AND PAYPAL WILL REFUND HIM FROM YOUR PAYPAL. Seller's prottection my fucking ass.

I received the tranny 2 months later missing all sensors on it and has a cracked case and stock in first gear. However, it is NOT the same tranny that I shipped (Which is what I suspected from the very begining) as this idiot shipped HIS DAMAGED ONE that he wanted to replace with the one that he bought from me. So he got the good tranny, immediately filed a false dispute and shipped his damaged one back.

After he shipped the tranny paypal wrote me with the tracking info, I swear to all of you, I called two friends (Witnesses) before I opened the package, and I video taped while opening it to find all sensors missing and case cracked, so now case is going to court. I will be more than happy to provide this video to whoever is interested.

Paypal refunded his $1200 from my paypal which didn't have the funds in there, so I'm $1200 in the hole with them. After writing paypal tens of times with video clip and pictures showing the differences between tranny that was shipped to tranny that is received along with proof of wrong tranny being shipped back to me and so on and so on, what did I get from paypal : NOTHING BUT : "after reviewing the case, we decided to grant the buyer $1200 for item not as described".

Because my dispute after receiving the tranny is under the same category (Not as described) , whoever files first wins, so :

1- Buyer got his money back, he got my good transmission.

2- I (Seller) lost a good tranny, and I'm $1200 in the hole.

This is paypal and this is absolutely a true story.

Thanks for reading. Adam

Damn that was shady of the guy you sold it to, i know its not the right thing to do but i would have thought long and hard about paying the guy a visit being that you had his adress and information. Its hard to avoid a scammer but he got you for 1200 bucks and a transmission. He has toanswer to GOD for that one but i would still try and follow thru with it as much as possible with the courts thats fuc*#d up on his behalf

Damn that was shady of the guy you sold it to, i know its not the right thing to do but i would have thought long and hard about paying the guy a visit being that you had his adress and information. Its hard to avoid a scammer but he got you for 1200 bucks and a transmission. He has toanswer to GOD for that one but i would still try and follow thru with it as much as possible with the courts thats fuc*#d up on his behalf


Hmmm, though about that a lot, It'll go to court but who do I sue? Paypal or "Buyer" ?
If he was living close I would have made the trip to his house the first day he filed the false dispute.

if i were you id be taking a trip out to iowa with some freinds and firearms. that really sucks. thats alot of money to just forget about.

Thats an ify situation idk personally i would go for the buyer in more than one way. Goodluck to you trying to dispute fight paypal in court. I find it rather shitty that they would deduct the funds from your account on the basis of him filing first without knowing the whole story

Thats an ify situation idk personally i would go for the buyer in more than one way. Goodluck to you trying to dispute fight paypal in court. I find it rather shitty that they would deduct the funds from your account on the basis of him filing first without knowing the whole story

Exactly, here's a copy/paste e.mail where I responded to paypal after so many times of their e.mails trying to remind me of the balance , after hours on the phone I got seriously frustrated so I had to write them this in response to their balance letter :

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
It's super easy to set on your fucking ass behind a computer disk and type, actually you get paid for it. So hitting the ENTER button every few days to "Remind" me of the balance in my account doesn't cost you a penny, HA !!
Anyway, you can kiss my fucking ass on this balance, take me to court if you want before I do (Save me court costs), I'll prove with WINTENESSES that the money you claim I owe you , I actually DON'T.
In few words I'll repeat what I said 100000000000000000000 times to
your stupid brains:

You refunded the buyer $1200 over an item that he claimed it was damaged when he received it. When I received it it wasn't only a completely different item number but it was BROKEN AND MISSING A LOT OF PARTS, things the buyer NEVER claimed. So it's YOUR decision to refund him, it isn't mine, and when I proved to you that you're wrong doing so, you IGNORED me.

So fuck you and fuck off, move on to your next case and copy/paste your stupid automated responses and hit the enter button.


And here's the response I got after sending that letter :

My name is Jennie and I work for PayPal's Office of Executive
Escalations. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused regarding
this matter. While we understand you may not be satisfied with this
response, we have reviewed your account and the matter thoroughly and we
feel that we have taken the appropriate actions or provided ample
information to address your concerns. Please be advised that further
contacts regarding this matter will not change the outcome or our
response; and PayPal will pursue collections on the negative balance.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Sincerely,
Jennie
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company

if i were you id be taking a trip out to iowa with some freinds and firearms. that really sucks. thats alot of money to just forget about.


I wish I could dude, too much dimocracy we got in this country.

By the way, they blocked my ebay account because of that balance, I owe nothing to ebay but yet they blocked my account, so paypal actually owns ebay or vise versa, note the paypal response signature above.

Well you've got 2 options here.

I would start with talking to paypal. Call in to paypal & do your best
to talk to some sort of manager. Explain the whole situation & tell
him that you have video & photographical evidence that the transmission
that was shipped to you was a different transmission than you shipped out.
Tell him that you have already spoken to lawyer & if this can't be resolved
you'll be forced to seek legal action against paypal.
If you say the right things & push the right buttons here, you should be
able to get this resolved. Remember to be professional & polite.
Profanity & yelling will decrease your chances of success.

Your second option is to seek legal action against the buyer.
I'm not sure what paypal's policies are against fraudulant items returned
from a dispute claim. It may be in the fine print somewhere that if the
returned item is damaged, paypal isn't liable for it. If that's the case
this will be your only option.

Good luck, Let us know how it turns out.

Well you've got 2 options here.

I would start with talking to paypal. Call in to paypal & do your best
to talk to some sort of manager. Explain the whole situation & tell
him that you have video & photographical evidence that the transmission
that was shipped to you was a different transmission than you shipped out.
Tell him that you have already spoken to lawyer & if this can't be resolved
you'll be forced to seek legal action against paypal.
If you say the right things & push the right buttons here, you should be
able to get this resolved. Remember to be professional & polite.
Profanity & yelling will decrease your chances of success.

Your second option is to seek legal action against the buyer.
I'm not sure what paypal's policies are against fraudulant items returned
from a dispute claim. It may be in the fine print somewhere that if the
returned item is damaged, paypal isn't liable for it. If that's the case
this will be your only option.

Good luck, Let us know how it turns out.


Thanks for the advice/comment brother.

Yeah, I spent MANY hours on the phone including going line by line on what he calimed in the dispute to prove that he NEVER calimed any external damage or missing pieces, as a matter of fact he mentioned tranny to be received "EXTERNALLY SOUND". I attached all pictures and video of everything but all I got again was "Kiss our ass", it's that simple, literally, yes it might sound unbelievable but that's why I'm here to inform you.

Read what Jennie said above in her response : "Please be advised that further contacts regarding this matter will not change the outcome or our response". Problem is court costs and lawyers costs, debating if to sue or wait to be sued and then prove them wrong.

By the way, they blocked my ebay account because of that balance, I owe nothing to ebay but yet they blocked my account, so paypal actually owns ebay or vise versa, note the paypal response signature above.
Ebay owns PayPal.

Thanks for the advice/comment brother.

Yeah, I spent MANY hours on the phone including going line by line on what he calimed in the dispute to prove that he NEVER calimed any external damage or missing pieces, as a matter of fact he mentioned tranny to be received "EXTERNALLY SOUND". I attached all pictures and video of everything but all I got again was "Kiss our ass", it's that simple, literally, yes it might sound unbelievable but that's why I'm here to inform you.

Read what Jennie said above in her response : "Please be advised that further contacts regarding this matter will not change the outcome or our response". Problem is court costs and lawyers costs, debating if to sue or wait to be sued and then prove them wrong.
I doubt they will actually ever sue you. They will send it to a collections agency and have them deal with it.

So chances are, your credit mite get fucked up. So most likely YOU will have to take it to court before that happens. You should be able to call and talk to a lawyer, for free, to see what he thinks. Make sure you tell him you have video and photo evidence - that makes it really easy for him.

Also, PayPal RARELY puts an account into a negative balance. They normally tell the seller they "could not retrieve the funds". So I'm guessing that he used a credit card and had the charges reversed by them - so of course PayPal is going to try to collect then. So also look into taking them to court if possible.

Wow thats just fucked up right there!! Makes me think twice about selling anything high in value through paypal. Really shows what kind of company it is. and i bet all that the dumbfuck said was "the item was not as described"...and he got his money back. You on the other hand have proof that its bullshit on the buyers part!! I could totally see it going in the buyers favor, if it was just..... he said this... you said that. But proof..WTF Goodluck with the situation bro

One note also, Do not pay back paypal the $1200. They do not refund the buyer the money unless they are able to collect it from your account to return to him.

The buyer has not received $1200 back and your transmission. Right now he is "owed" the $1200 by paypal as soon as you add funds to the account.

Also file a complaint with the better business bureau where ever paypal is located. Also see if you can file a small claims court with your local court and paypal would have to send someone to appear. You can pay a business local to them to "serve them papers" for the court appearance.


Additionally, pull any info you can find off the internet for the buyer and their address. Try to contact any relatives they have brother/sister/father/mother etc and tell them what he has done. Additionally try to get the phone numbers for any neighbors around him and call them to tell them and ask any info you can get from them about him. Furthermore,find out where he works and call and speak to his boss regarding it and fill them in on his activity, finally call his job and ask for different coworkers or people he works with and keep calling daily until he is so sick of you he will cancel the dispute/claim with paypal.

Call his local police department and file a report and try and have someone contact him regarding it. I would also dispute any type of collection paypal attempts.

One note also, Do not pay back paypal the $1200. They do not refund the buyer the money unless they are able to collect it from your account to return to him.

The buyer has not received $1200 back and your transmission. Right now he is "owed" the $1200 by paypal as soon as you add funds to the account.

Also file a complaint with the better business bureau where ever paypal is located. Also see if you can file a small claims court with your local court and paypal would have to send someone to appear. You can pay a business local to them to "serve them papers" for the court appearance.


Additionally, pull any info you can find off the internet for the buyer and their address. Try to contact any relatives they have brother/sister/father/mother etc and tell them what he has done. Additionally try to get the phone numbers for any neighbors around him and call them to tell them and ask any info you can get from them about him. Furthermore,find out where he works and call and speak to his boss regarding it and fill them in on his activity, finally call his job and ask for different coworkers or people he works with and keep calling daily until he is so sick of you he will cancel the dispute/claim with paypal.

Call his local police department and file a report and try and have someone contact him regarding it. I would also dispute any type of collection paypal attempts.
If PayPal sends you into the negative, normally that means PayPal did refund the money and they are trying to get it back from you. Which is why I'm guessing he used a credit card, cause otherwise PayPal doesn't do shit.

post up the pigs name and address. maybe theres a chance someone on here knows him or hes on here.

Sorry to hear about your deal bro, what a POS, I am actually from Iowa, I just moved up to Aurora, IL about 8 months ago but I go back to Iowa to see friends and family, post this bastards info up. Where is he from in Iowa?

I seriously plan on paying a visit with two of my friends. He works at an office, some type of plumbing business, I shipped the tranny directly to his "Transmission Shop". His name is Matt Nicholson.
As far as the money yeah he's got the money back already, that's why I said that paypal won't back the seller up, they back up the buyer, the whole Sellers prottection crap is seriously bullshit, don't use paypal for high $ transaction and sure don't SELL for high dollar.
Basically what happened here is equal to someone having a bad electronic item , he goes to wallmart, pick up a brand new one in the box, go home, put the bad one in the wallmart box and go back to tell them : "Hey, it doesn't work and I need my money back". It's that simple.

I spoke with him few times before he sent the payment, as a matter of fact I gave him my house, my cell and my work number in case he needs me with ANY type of help down the road installing the tranny. I was NEVER able to get him the first time I dialed his number, it's ALWAYS a message that I leave and he used to call back.

Thanks man for posting up this info, I know now not to fool with paypal and if i cant sell big things locally they will sit in my garage and rot. I know you cant blame this all on one bad apple but if they would have took 1200 from me and a perfect transmission i wouldnt be able to sleep at night, for the simple fact that i work too hard for the little money i do have. Please keep us updated i am interested in seeing how this comes out. Im sure he has read this thread if he bought it off of here I hope he is prosecuted to the full extent.

Thanks man for posting up this info, I know now not to fool with paypal and if i cant sell big things locally they will sit in my garage and rot. I know you cant blame this all on one bad apple but if they would have took 1200 from me and a perfect transmission i wouldnt be able to sleep at night, for the simple fact that i work too hard for the little money i do have. Please keep us updated i am interested in seeing how this comes out. Im sure he has read this thread if he bought it off of here I hope he is prosecuted to the full extent.

No problem brother, it isn't the first paypal bad story on this site, I read a few bad ones in the past as well. Yeah, just don't use paypal for high dollar payments, you NEVER know who's on the other side getting the money and what he/she is planning to do. He basically tricked paypal and got away with it, it's that simple.

I seriously plan on paying a visit with two of my friends. He works at an office, some type of plumbing business, I shipped the tranny directly to his "Transmission Shop". His name is Matt Nicholson.
As far as the money yeah he's got the money back already, that's why I said that paypal won't back the seller up, they back up the buyer, the whole Sellers prottection crap is seriously bullshit, don't use paypal for high $ transaction and sure don't SELL for high dollar.
Basically what happened here is equal to someone having a bad electronic item , he goes to wallmart, pick up a brand new one in the box, go home, put the bad one in the wallmart box and go back to tell them : "Hey, it doesn't work and I need my money back". It's that simple.

I spoke with him few times before he sent the payment, as a matter of fact I gave him my house, my cell and my work number in case he needs me with ANY type of help down the road installing the tranny. I was NEVER able to get him the first time I dialed his number, it's ALWAYS a message that I leave and he used to call back.


Where is he at in Iowa. I am from the very Southeast corner of the state, its sad that some people have to be dirtbags like this, I guess all that some people underderstand is having a serious ass kicking put on them....good luck brother.

If PayPal sends you into the negative, normally that means PayPal did refund the money and they are trying to get it back from you. Which is why I'm guessing he used a credit card, cause otherwise PayPal doesn't do shit.


That is only true if it was a "credit card chargeback" which youll clearly know when you get the claim/dispute email from paypal. or if the buyer just filed a dispute/claim.

If he did it within 45 minutes of receiving the package, it wasnt a credit card chargeback. CC chargebacks cant be done that quickly. It normally takes a few days, because the credit card company has to notify paypal then they notify you.

So the buyer hasn't actually gotten any money back because it was a credit card dispute. Paypal won't "cover" the $1200 until the seller puts funds in the account. Ive dealt with this on stuff ive bought from a fraudulent seller and the seller just never put any funds in the account and im still "owed" the money by paypal but havent gotten it.

That is only true if it was a "credit card chargeback" which youll clearly know when you get the claim/dispute email from paypal. or if the buyer just filed a dispute/claim.

If he did it within 45 minutes of receiving the package, it wasnt a credit card chargeback. CC chargebacks cant be done that quickly. It normally takes a few days, because the credit card company has to notify paypal then they notify you.

So the buyer hasn't actually gotten any money back because it was a credit card dispute. Paypal won't "cover" the $1200 until the seller puts funds in the account. Ive dealt with this on stuff ive bought from a fraudulent seller and the seller just never put any funds in the account and im still "owed" the money by paypal but havent gotten it.

Well, here are few pieces of info, new info I would say:

Paypal has changed the way it operates over the years, two years ago I bought stuff using paypal , few times I chose the option of withdrawing money out of my checking account when placing the order but it would take 4 days or so for the funds to be cleared from my bank. HOWEVER, the seller used to get his money INSTANTLY , in MANY cases I used to get a shipping tracking info the 2nd day of the purchase, 3 days BEFORE paypal even got the money. It DOESN'T work this way nowadays.

Believe me, I dealt with paypal for many years and I can assure you one thing: There's NO CONCRETE RULE of how paypal refund policy works, a 9-5 person whos in charge of making these refund decisions is FLEXIBLE and from my personal experience, he/she can deny/approve a claim depending on his/her mood at that moment behind the computer disk.

For that I would like to tell you 100% info : Sometimes they hold the funds from being deposited back into the buyer's account until the seller deposits these funds, and YES SOMETIMES they issue a full refund , in this specific case I know that they gave him $1200 back and now they are going after me, how do I know that?! The fucker sent me an e.mail telling me that he got the money back and case is closed to him. So again guys, there's no concrete rule on how paypal issue/hold/deny a refund.

Im tired of paypal. I wish someone would step up with a new company. kinda hard to deal with selling on ebay thought when they own paypal, they wont allow you to use a new website as a payment method, this way they get money from you twice. once on your sale, and a percentage of the transaction.

Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own ass and not give a shit about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.

Im tired of paypal. I wish someone would step up with a new company. kinda hard to deal with selling on ebay thought when they own paypal, they wont allow you to use a new website as a payment method, this way they get money from you twice. once on your sale, and a percentage of the transaction.

Similar thing happened to me. Sold a radio out of a 99 trans am to a guy. he gets it, files claim, says packing sucks, radio broke. Anywho, i issue refund, but the radio i got back was his broken POS (verified by GM and also by my ebay pictures and part numbers that were shows in photos). I was only out $100 so its not like your situation but paypal wouldnt help me becuase i issued a refund (by buyers request). Then i confronted the a$$hole and what does he do....leaves me negative feedback on ebay, and as a seller, i was unable to do the same to WARN people about this scumbag so he doesnt scam others. Its BS how ebay/paypal operates these days. guess all we can do is just bitch about them. Sad to say, anymore theses days, you have to jsut worry about your own ass and not give a shit about anyone else, becuase thats what there making this world out to be. Hope you get this resolved. the more pics, video, proof, etc you have, the better chance you have of getting this fixed.


Looks like you know all about it, you saved me time providing more info to everyone here, you're absolutely right, and like I said Paypal isn't what it was before.
Nowadays by the way, if you list an auction on ebay and you mention that Money order is accepted, Ebay will IMMEDIATELY cancel your auction the moment they find out without even telling you to edit it, their only interest is to have EVERYONE use paypal for the reason that you mentioned above.
Like I said, I had my ebay account blocked now because they own Paypal, and I got the same exact thing you got, I'm unable to leave a negative feedback while getting one since I'm the seller.
The whole idea of posting this ad is to warn you guys out there, Paypal and Ebay isn't the same anymore, sellers prottection is not an option to either one of those two sites, think twice before using it to sell, because you NEVER know who's on the other side buying from you and what's he/she planning to do to screw you up.

Thanks Andrew for adding your story to support mine, sorry you got screwed just by trying to be nice and refund a guy who claimed something that never existed. Good luck.

Adam

I've been saying it for a long time, paypal sucks.

I've been saying it for a long time, paypal sucks.

X2.

I think its funny now. a few years ago, when you sold on ebay, there were like 5 payment methods you could use when buying an item (money gram, paypal, cash, money order, paybuddy, etc). there were a bunch. Ever since the 2 companys merged, its been a joke. you cant even buy stuff on ebay through peoples online stores and pay them direct, all payments must go through paypal. i hate it.

So many people complain, but with the size of ebay/paypal, it would be quite suprising to see another company be able to overpower them. most small companies just cant compete.

That sucks man I have had some bad stuff happen with paypal. I purchased a rollback on ebay paid the $1000 he wanted down. Me and my brother drove 12 hours to get it. We got there and the I found a bunch of problems that the seller forgot to put in the auction. To make a long story short I never did get my grand back because it was not covered under buyer protection.

Would you be able to contact the police in the city he lives and ask if they have anyone who covers internet fruad cases?

Gotta share this story,
In this case...I'm the BUYER. Bought a pair of Dodge Viper seats on Ebay. When they arrived.....no hardware was included to bolt the Seat Backs to the Seat Buttoms. His ad stated, "No Mounting Hardware." His photos displayed the seats as Together....not four sepparate pieces. At first, he denied any wrong doing and so the emails have begun. Below are 2, I sent him and one he responded to. Finding this hardware won't be easy.



You DO mention in your ad that there is NO mounting hardware included... but lets be honest here for a moment. To suggest that your ad implies that there is NO hardware means that there is no hardware to BOLT the seats together is a bit of a stretch...don't you think? I mean ,"Come On". That's BS and we both know it. How the hell did you end up with these seats and have NO hardware to secure the TOP SECTION to the BOTTOM? This is crazy!!!! You got a set of seats advertized for sale....They certainly LOOK bolted together in your photos but you say, " No mounting hardware." That statement to almost ANYONE implies that you don't have the bolts to secure them down in any given car. Not that they can't be put together / re-assembled. Do the right thing here and come up with the bolts needed to at least make the seats complete. I'm not asking too much. I paid a fair price and you should honor this sale as displayed.
Enough said.

Email I sent #2
I'm not trying to be a HARD ASS about this but in all fairness. It's reasonable to expect that what you see is what you will recieve. The seats were together. If there is no hardware to bolt the seats together...then "Say So" in the ad. Not so hard.. is it?
Try and view this from my end. You shell out $650.00 of your hard earned money for something that can't be put together. Would you be HAPPY when it arrived?
NO, you'de be stuck in the same spot I'm in.

His reply,
You're right, and again I apologize for not being clear. I will find you a set of bolts and ship them to you as soon as humanly possible. I just have to figure out what size is needed. It's something I should have gotten to go with the seats before listing them. I'll shoot you a message as soon as I get them shipped with a tracking number

Since you have the serial number of the transmission you sent, I suggest you package copies of your documentation (including photos) together with a brief letter to the local police or district attorney. Report the transmission as stolen (it was). If he put it in his car, the police can inspect, and verify the number as yours. Legally, since he didn't pay for it, it's still yours. The dispute with Payputz is a different matter.
Having him spend $20k on a lawyer and spend 6 months in jail for grand theft is way more satisfying than you spending the time in jail for giving him a beat down. Plus, if they prosecute, you can go after Paypal in small claims court, and your case is a lock.

If he put the tranny in someone else's car, that's a different story, and it would take some detective work to track that one down.

I think the head doctors would consider me one highly retalitory individual. When dealing with dirtbags, I don't get mad. I don't get even. I like to get way ahead. I think you should get way ahead.

this exact same thing happened to me but with a xbox360 and the case was filed within 22 mins of signing I sold he claimed it wasn't working when he got it and sent it back to me serial numbers didn't match paypal forced me to refund it as you did they don't respond to emails I called 4 or 5 times bitching and every time I asked for a higher up and got a transfer eventually I got some one on the phone they said I had to file a police report for internet fraud and send them a copy I filed teh report faxed it to paypal and got the funds reveresed.
This was 2 years ago I don't know if things have changed but I would start off with some phone calls then filing a police report and sending a copy to paypal.
Also if you go to court you can sue for all court and lawyer fees plus travel on top of the 1200 so if it's a sure deal go for a good lawyer and first class.(grandmother won in a small claims court about 5 years back)

I had a similar experience a couple of days ago.

A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.

At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here

Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.

So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.

Or I just got Lucky.



The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself :D"

I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.

yeah he talked to you through the dispute center before making it a claim, in the OP case he filed a straight up claim no dispute no discussion basically saying the seller sent him a item different then the one he won.

I didn`t read the entire thread, but I feel for you man. If I were you, I would contact a lawyer and end all conversations with paypal and the buyer. You can sue both paypal and the buyer. Hand it to them please!

I'd be loading up some rounds..

I had a similar experience a couple of days ago.

A guy bought a turbo from me. After he got the turbo he sent me a bunch of messages about it having a lot of play in it and wanting his money back. We conversed over the Paypal dispute crap and after explaining that there was nothing wrong with his turbo and that I had pulled it off of a car and it worked perfectly and telling him that I would not refund his money for what I KNEW was a good turbo, he escalated the dispute to a claim.
At this point Paypal emailed me with a message that I will copy here

Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an eBay transaction. Therefore, we will
not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.

So from what I can tell, if you stick to your guns and communicate effectively you will be ok.

Or I just got Lucky.



The nice thing was just before he escalated to a claim he sent me a message that said and I quote "It could have been easy, suit yourself :D"

I bet he felt like a jackass when Paypal sent him a message telling him he was F-ed.



Holly SHIT, this only proves that fucking paypal CHANGE their policy every other fucking day, if that was the policy when my case happened, he would not even get the money back, and now (Few days ago as you said) paypal says : "PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the SHIPMENT of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received through an eBay transaction".....

WOW, I guess it's good for you brother, but if you go back to what I wrote few times in this post you'll see how paypal CHANGES every other fucking day. This is bullshit, FUCK PAYPAL.

Do you know what that means guys? It means that for you as BUYERS it's NOT GOOD AT ALL to use paypal to pay for stuff ANYMORE. Why? Because of their new policy now, they only back you up if you DIDN'T RECEIVE A SHIPMENT, but if you did, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE CONIDITION of the the item (If bought on ebay, and next week they'll add ls1tech to the list, the following week it will be k mart,wallmart,home depot, office max, and so on) :).....

In other words BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE BYE to BUYER PROTECTION, a seller could send you a fucked up item that he claimed as excellent, if the fucked up item is DILEVERED, party is over for you as a buyer. It's that fucking simple. It's amazing how I said they keep changing their rules and now a fellow member proves my point. Thanks for sharing your story with us man. I'm glad they didn't refund him from your account. On the other hand like I said, if a seller is an asshole, a buyer could be fucked.

Using paypal is taking a chance, most secured payment method my ass.



My case is being taken care of by professionals now and I'm sure everything will be ok.

Damn..an empty box could be sent for all they care..all they care about is that something was delivered.:eek2:

Fuck Paypal.

Damn..an empty box could be sent for all they care..all they care about is that something was delivered.:eek2:

Fuck Paypal.

Thank you, that's just fucked up, seriously.

SLOW91Z : Thanks again for the good info about the "NEW" designed paypal policy, I had to edit my signature thanks to you :).

Looks like time for a roadtrip to Iowa:twak:

Sorry for your loss, yeah their are some miserable conniving SOBs out there, be careful.

Damn..an empty box could be sent for all they care..all they care about is that something was delivered.:eek2:

Fuck Paypal.

I, as a buyer, got hosed because of this. Basically, something gets fucked in delivery and you are fine, per se. You file a claim because you bought 'an excellent working transmission with 3k miles on it' and it was junk and they won't help you because it was internally damaged but shipped fine :eyes:

SLOW91Z : Thanks again for the good info about the "NEW" designed paypal policy, I had to edit my signature thanks to you :).

And to add; it's not ONLY ebay transactions, its all transactions through paypal (my example above was a non-ebay transaction that I simply paid via paypal).

I'm requiring money orders from now on..but then again some sites like gunbroker.com won't use Paypal cause it's gun parts..Paypal doesn't want to support that..lol

Damn this shit sucks! Ive sold alot of stuff with paypal. Hell I sold the blower of my first lt1 for $1500 and got paid with paypal. Thank god the guy wasnt a douche bag! I hate hearing shit like this happen! Something like this ever happens to me ill probably end up in prison...

OP surely the truth will unfold and will you get this problem resolved. Money orders for me for now on.

Yea..hopefully the Lawyers get that shit in Court and the Judge see's it..maybe then Paypal will change their policy.

sorry to hear all this going on dude, there's a lot of good advice in this thread. Hope you get this settled. Any members in Iowa who wanna pay that address a Visit?

Wow, just read the thread fuming in my chair.
Legally, it sound's like there isn't much you can do without having to spend money on lawyer...It is amazing what people can get away with now'a'days. If it was me, I'd go down there with some friends, tools, a truck and a trailer. Look up the name in yellowbooks or follow the guy. Then steal his car with the trailer real early in the morning. Followed up by pulling the tranny along with any parts that would equate up to 1,200. I.E. his motor (600), wiring harness and pcm (200), Deck (100), speakers (100), and what ever else. Load the truck up, drop the car off down the block, and go home.

"An eye for an eye"

Hope you get the problem resolved legally (perfered), but sometimes illegally is okay if you don't go overboard.

^^ That would be the most awesome thing ever done.. to get even with someone (in this situation) :devil:

For high money transactions this is what I do.

Open a NEW bank account at your bank. They are usually completely free and very easy to set up. Have the buyer WIRE the money into your account. Usually it costs around $15-30 but its far cheaper than the 3% that paypal charges especially for $1200. Once that money hits your account (they can only wire IN and not out) its yours. Its very secure because you actually have a bank that will protect you. Paypal is not and could care less about the user in the end. They are there to collect fees and that is why scammers LOVE it.

sorry to hear all this going on dude, there's a lot of good advice in this thread. Hope you get this settled. Any members in Iowa who wanna pay that address a Visit?

That's the main point brother and I'm glad a lot of people are reading this thread, I really hate to see a fellow member here go through the same thing I am right now. Ebay owns paypal now and remember, if you'll ever owe paypal, your ebay will be blocked.

^^ That would be the most awesome thing ever done.. to get even with someone (in this situation) :devil:

I should be getting a court date very soon, will keep you guys updated.

For high money transactions this is what I do.

Open a NEW bank account at your bank. They are usually completely free and very easy to set up. Have the buyer WIRE the money into your account. Usually it costs around $15-30 but its far cheaper than the 3% that paypal charges especially for $1200. Once that money hits your account (they can only wire IN and not out) its yours. Its very secure because you actually have a bank that will protect you. Paypal is not and could care less about the user in the end. They are there to collect fees and that is why scammers LOVE it.

I wish I would have done it that way, good advice but not sure how many people would be willing to wire money that way when paypal is still "Controling" the online buy/sell method of payments.

garbage.

you should ask your lawyer to get the guys, criminal record. You never know what you would find there.

good luck