Road Racing - Setting up car for Road/street. Help

2002 M6 SS

I'm about to drop cash on the ride but need some advice on where to direct the money. Currently I have full bolt-ons

I am planning on getting a
1. Moser 12 bolt
2. Beef up trans w/1A package
3. Baer 6P calipers or Zo6 Conversion setup
front and rear sway bars

Here are my questions:
Do I need to get a transmission cooler?

I already have the Baer Eradispeed Plus on front and Baer Decelarotor in rear I was hoping to just get a better 6piston caliper but not sure what route to go?

I have 90% suspension mods but was wondering if the SLP front/rear swaybars were equivalent to one offered by aftermarket options?

MODS

Spec Stage 3+ Clutch Billet Aluminum Flywheel
3.73 gears
adj. Master cylinder
new Slave cylinder

Suspension:
Budnik Fontanna Fatlip 18 x 10.5 Rear, 18 x 9.5 front Billet aluminum wheels
Bilstein shocks
BMR adjustable Chrome moly- LCA and brackets
BMR adjustable Chrome moly Panhard
BMR Shock Tower Brace
BMR Weld-in Sub frame Connectors
Baer Eradispeed 3 (2-piece) front rotors
Eradispeed (Single piece) rear rotors
Eibach Sportline springs

Is this for a 4th gen, or the 5th gen in your sig? I'm assuming 4th gen, since you said 12 bolt.

You don't need the 6-piston or Z06 brakes. At least, not C6 Z06. C5 Corvette brakes or the CTS-V will be all you could want - unless you plan on racing in the 24 Hours of LeMans.

What's the "trans 1A package"?

I think that the SLP swaybars are 32f and 21r. The most popular I think is 35 hollow up front and 21 hollow rear. It's what I run on my racecar.

Detroit true-trac for the 12 bolt. If it's a manual transmission, don't need the cooler. Although, an oil cooler for the engine isn't a bad idea, along w/ a pre-oiler to ensure oil pressure during long turns. Sticky tires & adjustable dampening coil overs if you don't already have. Torque wrench to check lug nuts after each run. Check weight of car @ all 4 wheels & corner balance accordingly, include driver weight.

Yes, sorry. 4th Gen

What's the "trans 1A package"?

Transmission upgrade package. (up to 700 HP)

You don't need the 6-piston or Z06 brakes. At least, not C6 Z06. C5 Corvette brakes or the CTS-V will be all you could want - unless you plan on racing in the 24 Hours of LeMans.

lol!

No. Just need some suggestions on what I need to get my car set up for Road racing. As this is my last opportunity to do so, my wife want a bigger house.:cry:

I attended a 60-130 event and realized my break setup sucks poo-poo! I need better calipers for my current rotor set-up.

I'm not sure if I need a transmission upgrade or a cooler, etc. I have the funds to do a level 1 upgrade to the T-56 but if I do not NEED to do so, I will go with a modified stronger H/C set up instead

Detroit true-trac for the 12 bolt. If it's a manual transmission, don't need the cooler. Although, an oil cooler for the engine isn't a bad idea, along w/ a pre-oiler to ensure oil pressure during long turns. Sticky tires & adjustable dampening coil overs if you don't already have. Torque wrench to check lug nuts after each run. Check weight of car @ all 4 wheels & corner balance accordingly, include driver weight.

It is an M6 (2002 SS)
I have a H.O. Melling oil pump is that good enough or is a pre-oiler still recommended? I will look into a oil cooler.

I have stock Bilstine Shocks and Eibach Sportline springs. What do you suggest. I still would like to enjoy a "cruise around the block" or to Galveston. I'm not looking to build a "track only" ride.

Detroit true-trac for the 12 bolt- will look into this as well. I got about $2500 budget for the rear.

While not the absolute best, your shocks and springs are a 9 out of 10. They should be fine for track days.

Oh wait - you said "Sportlines"? Aren't those the lowest ones? If so, then those WON'T WORK on the track. You're going to be hitting your bumpstops hard. I'd recommend some Strano springs for the shocks.

Your tranny is fine. Mine is still mostly stock. I raced it 100% stock for a few years. Just put good fluid in it and you're good to go. It's not like drag racing where it gets shocked on launch. And, unlike drag racing, you don't have to make lightning-quick shifts. It's 100x more important to make sure you're in the right gear. During "lazy laps" (regular track days or when I'm not fighting for position), I usually take .25 seconds to shift. On fact shifts, it's about .1. When you hear my shifts compared to a drag guy, I sound like I'm in slow motion. But, after you drop it into 1st (instead of 3rd) coming out of a 1G turn going 85mph, you take your time. Oh, and no cooler is needed.

The swaybars I mentioned earlier are great for you. Also, Hellwig makes an adjustable rear bar. Truth be told, THAT'S what I have on my car, but tuned to equal a 21 hollow rate.

There are varying opinions about the right diff for a 12-bolt. I'm not the guy to ask. Strano may know...

Lastly, think about your brake pads. You will need something better than what you run on the street. I run Carbotech XP12s and they are wonderful on the track. Never fade, rock solid. You could swap them out when you get to the track. Also, swap fluid for something with around a 400* wet boiling point or better. Wilwood 570* or US Brake HTX 600 is what I use.

Some extra wheels/tires are nice so that you don't chew up your street tires. Buy cheap 18" Corvette wheels, then get some used take-offs for them. Probably $700 for wheels and tires.

You got a helmet?

it sounds like youre throwing money into the car. what do you plan on doing with it? competitive wheel-wheel racing? track days? autox?

Helmet?

Yea. I just ordered a Fulmer FMA1 Flat Black 015. SA rated.

Springs- sportlines...Man I love those! I can still use them right? Bump stops... is it bad?:(

it sounds like youre throwing money into the car. what do you plan on doing with it? competitive wheel-wheel racing? track days? autox?

Road racing
track days

It is an M6 (2002 SS)
I have a H.O. Melling oil pump is that good enough or is a pre-oiler still recommended? I will look into a oil cooler.


Yes, the pre-oiler will maintain oil pressure during long sweeping turns. The oil in the pan moves to one side of the pan & can starve the oil pump. If this happens you could spin a bearing or worse. Any pre-oiler is fine, even a cheapo bladderless pre-oiler w/ a manual valve. I use a cheapo with no problems. Most guys use Accusump w/ elecric valves & a bladder. It's up to you which type to choose.

Oil cooler is as imortant. Your oil can reach in excess of 300*F, which will break down street oils of which provide the proper viscosity protection from 205-230*F, ish. I even get concerned about 250*F racing oil when it reaches 300*F. Anyway, an oil cooler & run @ least a 60/40, (20W-50 to 5W-30) if not 100% racing oil (20W-50) @ the road course. Be sure to dump the oil & change the filter after every track day. You don't want to run on the street w/ racing oil, it will not get warm enough during street use & will be too thick.



I have stock Bilstine Shocks and Eibach Sportline springs. What do you suggest. I still would like to enjoy a "cruise around the block" or to Galveston. I'm not looking to build a "track only" ride.

I don't know anything about the Bilstien/Eibach combo. You want to have a shock that offers adjustable height & dampening, as well as, the correct front/rear springs. Something around 500#/inch front & 350#/inch rear may be a good sarting point, but you should ask a Corvette driver like (00 Trans Ram) to find out what is considered a good spring combo, as I don't know what the preffered basic street/road course set-up is on a Vette. Although, I don't think 500 front & 300-350# rear is to far off of what you may want.




Detroit true-trac for the 12 bolt- will look into this as well. I got about $2500 budget for the rear.

Yes, this is important. A true-trac offers great equalization of wheels while accelerationg off corners.

I don't think he's got a Vette - it's a 4th gen F-body, right?

Your springs WILL be a problem. Take a look at the following spreadsheet, then come back to this thread:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html

Your front springs are just barely stiffer than stock, but you have already lost 1.5" of wheel travel. This means that it is still fairly easy to compress the springs, but there is nowhere for the wheel to go. What will happen is, when you go into a turn, the spring will compress because the body is leaning over onto the outside wheels. Because you don't have very stiff springs, it'll lean a lot. Swaybars help, but won't eliminate it.

After it leans enough, you'll hit your bumpstops. Your bumpstops are attached directly to your frame. This means that your wheel/tire is now effectively attached to the frame of your car. Those nice shocks are dead weight. If you hit a bump (we're talking tiny bumps, like cracks in the concrete and gumball-sized rocks), the car will skip over the pavement instead of absorbing the bump.

You will NEED different springs. But, don't fret. You have Bilstein shocks, which are great to start with. Strano springs are going to lower the car about 1" or so. You'll still get the look you like, but it'll handle 100x better. I don't know the exact spring rate he uses, but it's more like the good springs on that chart (G2, Hypercoils, MAC, etc.).

Or, you could REALLY get a good setup and buy some coilover sleeves from Ground Control, then buy coilover springs for the front. They sell them in 25lb increments, so you could get EXACTLY what you want. In the rear, you can run a weight jacker setup and buy custom springs (5" wide) for the rear. These springs (the 2.5" coilovers and the 5") usually cost $50 apiece.

I don't think he's got a Vette - it's a 4th gen F-body, right?

Your springs WILL be a problem. Take a look at the following spreadsheet, then come back to this thread:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fastcar/suspension.html

Your front springs are just barely stiffer than stock, but you have already lost 1.5" of wheel travel. This means that it is still fairly easy to compress the springs, but there is nowhere for the wheel to go. What will happen is, when you go into a turn, the spring will compress because the body is leaning over onto the outside wheels. Because you don't have very stiff springs, it'll lean a lot. Swaybars help, but won't eliminate it.

After it leans enough, you'll hit your bumpstops. Your bumpstops are attached directly to your frame. This means that your wheel/tire is now effectively attached to the frame of your car. Those nice shocks are dead weight. If you hit a bump (we're talking tiny bumps, like cracks in the concrete and gumball-sized rocks), the car will skip over the pavement instead of absorbing the bump.

You will NEED different springs. But, don't fret. You have Bilstein shocks, which are great to start with. Strano springs are going to lower the car about 1" or so. You'll still get the look you like, but it'll handle 100x better. I don't know the exact spring rate he uses, but it's more like the good springs on that chart (G2, Hypercoils, MAC, etc.).

Or, you could REALLY get a good setup and buy some coilover sleeves from Ground Control, then buy coilover springs for the front. They sell them in 25lb increments, so you could get EXACTLY what you want. In the rear, you can run a weight jacker setup and buy custom springs (5" wide) for the rear. These springs (the 2.5" coilovers and the 5") usually cost $50 apiece.

I'm actually up for new shocks I have around 60K on the Bilstein's. I like the look of the sportlines. So without getting the Transmission done I could use that cash for the spring/shock setup. So post up your suggestion on shocks/spring set up so I can get some sort of price range.

You think I could get the Corvette calipers and shocks/spring set up for under $1300?

Is a torque arm and steel drive shaft needed for road/track days?

I appreciate everyones help. I have to get this right THIS time around. I have $6000 and that is it. Obviously If I spend less that's good too.

The 12 Bolt is a must! Transmission does not seem to be a major Requirement, so I can allocate that money to the suspension and break calipers ($1300)

Let's see:

- Koni 4/3 package from Strano is $850
- Front coilover package will run about $200 (threaded sleeves and springs)
- Rear weight jackers and springs will be about $200

That eats up your budget, and you don't have brakes.

Try getting the Bilsteins revalved specifically for your car. You'll send them in, tell them what spring rate you have (or will buy) and what you're goals are. They'll valve them perfectly for your car and the springs.

Unless you plan on competitively racing the car, your money will be better spent on Strano springs than coilovers. Then you'll have plenty left for a C5 conversion package.

The torque arm may be good, and may be bad. Mine was horrible. But, I raced against a guy who used a stock one and it was OK.

An AL driveshaft is best, but don't go buying a new one if you've got steel.

Call up Strano. He'll get you the good stuff, and point you in the direction you need for the other things.

Unfortunately, a lot of this is trial and error. Strano sold me my first suspension setup. Pretty much everything - springs, shocks, swaybars, etc. It worked great. But, as I started road racing more, I learned that I liked a stiffer spring (he'd probably agree - he sold me softer stuff because I was still on the road). I replaced the rear bar with an adjustable one. And, I replaced the rear shocks with something different because I was combating brake hop. But, his front shocks and front swaybar are still there. And, his setup was a great starting point.

you dont 'NEED' a 12 bolt. hundreds of f-bodies race competitively on 10 bolts. and im talking actual RACING, not just track days and autox. dedicated, gutted race cars with people who travel the country to attend events with cash payouts. i really doubt thats what youre getting into when you say 'road racing'. it sounds more like just track days.

12 bolts are heavier, and dont have the best options for a road race diff. nearly all 12 bolts are soley used for drag racing. there are many better options in diffs for a 10 bolt, and since youre apparently throwing money into the car, why not beef up the rear. CM axles, welded tubes, longer/high strenth studs, and a torsen T2R diff is all youll ever need, unless you start doing stupid things with it. itll be significantly lighter also.

...and since youre apparently throwing money into the car...

I would like to get my car to a point where all i have to worry about is break pads rotors and oil changes. If you had 6K and the mods currently posted, what would YOU do? That is what I am asking.

Is setting the car up for Track days a sin? I need advise on building a set-up for track, that is why i'm posting.

00 Trans Ram-
I will look into the Strano springs. Thanks

i dont have 6K into track prep, and all i have to worry about are pads and oil. after all this im surprised you havent mentioned tires. and hubs.

I would like to get my car to a point where all i have to worry about is break pads rotors and oil changes. If you had 6K and the mods currently posted, what would YOU do? That is what I am asking.

Is setting the car up for Track days a sin? I need advise on building a set-up for track, that is why i'm posting.

00 Trans Ram-
I will look into the Strano springs. Thanks

I would do the following:

Strano's Springs $225
Strano Bar Front and Rear $425
Koni's Front/Rear $1000
(Great package, so good in fact that I think this is the exact setup they should have come with from the factory)
Total $1650

C5 Brake Kit (Trackbrackets version) $250
C5/C6 Calipers/Rotors etc to complete $500+/-
Upgraded Pads (Hawk/Carbotec etc) Front/Rear $250
(Best bang for the buck brake upgrade IMO and it uses all readily available parts with tons of brake pad choices when the time comes)
Total $1000

Oil Cooler/plumbing/fittings $400??? (pure guess)
Aftermarket Water Temp/Oil Temp/Oil Pressure guages $200???
(to keep an eye on things)
Total $600

Rims/Tires $1000??
(go with 18's not 17's, lots more choices for scrubs)

Seat/Harness $800?
(good seat, properly mounted with a properly mounted harness = not cheap)

That's about $5000 into the car, you doing all the labor.

The remaining $1000 could be put to the rear end getting freshened?

What's left over $$$$ = Generally going over the car looking for saftey/maintenance/fresh fluids and other items that might need some attention such as front hubs (known weak point), front control arm bushings, rear control arm bushings, T/A mount/bushing etc. And what's left is for SEAT TIME.

I have all the mods you currently have plus all those I just listed and the car is a lot of fun, predictable and easy to drive on the street. I run 17x11 wheels but wouldn't recommend them because it's almost impossible to get scrubs in that size anymore. There are tons more options in the 18" market.

I have a Moser 12-bolt in my car with 3.73's and wouldn't trade it for a 10-bolt, but my car started life on the dragstrip. I don't think I'd spend for the 12-bolt in a pure autox or trackday car at least not right away. If your 10-bolt is in good shape, get some good fluid in it and go. When it comes time for a diff/axles etc, then you'll have some thinking to do but could still probably be ahead of the game with a well prepped 10-bolt.

Do your homework on seats and belts. Not all are created equal. I have Kirkey Intermediate Road Race Seats and they are not a true bolt in deal and require a back brace, which means you need a roll bar, so they aren't for everyone. For an aluminum seat they are very supportive and comfortable even on long rides. Sparco and others make seats that are more user friendly.

Beyond all of this I think you are getting into a more dedicated type of car, accusumps, roll bars/cages, gutted interiors, aggressive weight reduction etc. Its the point my 99 firechicken is at, but I can't bring my self to start gutting, chopping etc.

Good Luck, Be Safe and have fun.

it sounds like you need to do alot more research before you start buying parts, and for the rear end it is not being abused like it is with drag racing, stock is fine and lighter than others, i'd say do alot more reading before you start buying parts

Yeah - if/when I break my 10-bolt, I'm going right back with another one. Lightest one out there, and cheap as dirt.

so im confused do i want to run a coilover set up or a good spring/shock combo....... or coilovers up front and spring and shocks in the rear, and what about gears i just see 4.10's being terrible always having to shit but i could be wrong

spring/shock is all you need, unless you start real racing. get them and you wont be sorry you did.

gears all depend on what tracks you run at. and how much you want to get into changing your car for it. im happy with my stock 3.42. if all i did was autox, which are most all very short, tight tracks, 4.10s would help get out of the corners, provided you have enough traction. 3.73 is always a good comprimise, not a huge difference between that and stock. if you hit real tracks often enough, and have some decent straights, keep it in the middle around 3.42 - 3.73. also remember LS1s make plenty of torque to pull out a slightly taller gear. with basic bolts on, exhaust and tune, i make 370 tq at the wheels.

Yeah - don't mess with gears. You'll be swapping sets for every track, because they're all different. Now, if you run 1 track, and the stock ones are horrible (shifting in weird places), then you may want to change. But, the best way to change your shift points is to attempt to go faster EVERYWHERE and then you'll be shifting at different places.

Springs/shocks, swaybars, brake pads, tires. That's about all I'd concentrate on. You'll be beating most street cars that show up if you do those things.

some im gonna guess then the koni 4/3's with stranos are good. because thats the set up i plan on buying.... with brembos and hp plus's...... but im unsure of where to find calipers because im not doing a big brake kit..

Leave your current calipers. The LS1 calipers are pretty good. About the only problem you could run into is that, after repeated track days, you could get some caliper spread. When you take off the pads, note if the outside of the pad is thinner than the inside (near the hub). Then you'll need to replace them.

Everything else looks good!

get a real set of track pads. unless its a short, tight track, youll overheat the HP+. i think trans ram himself is selling some used LS1 track pads on frrax.

I already sold them. Sorry!

Track-only pads are a great investment. I can't tell you how nice it is to have brakes 5 laps into a session. After driving my G8GT (100% stock), I would get fade about 1/2 lap into a session. By 3 laps, my stopping distances were 25% longer - no exageration.

With my racecar, I have ZERO fade. My braking on the last lap is the same as the first - perhaps better. And, it's just pads and good fluid.

thanks guys for the imput, so this is what i plan on doin.... running some koni shocks 4/3 with strano springs. brembo brakes with track only pads.... full suspension mods from Ws6 store..... what tires do you guys usually run out there because i plan on using my zr1's for track tires.... then getting some ttII's for the street and shit's and giggle's

Best thing is to buy take-off race tires. For between $50 and $75 per tire, you'll have almost-new race tires. They'll be 100x better than street tires for performance. And, they'll last longer. You'll get 3-4 track days out of a set of softer take offs (Hoosier A6s, Kumho V710s), and more out of the harder ones (Toyo RA1s, Hoosier R6s, Nittos).

Street tires tend to start chunking when they get overheated.

i got 4 shipped for $340

i got 4 shipped for $340

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

what pressures did you run when you had these tires? if you ever ran the same ones i bought. i heard they need alot of camber to run correctly. i just installed adjustable upper arms and am in the process of figuring out the alignment specs.

Which brand tires did you get?

hoosier, supposed to be the harder compound. some of them used to have tread, and were either shaved or used till slicks. im thinking a hard comp. rain tire, if possible? they have 'koni' stamped into the sidewall, so whatever turner motorsports ran on their beamers in the koni challenge.

So I have updated my list, Got to buy the big shit first, wont have a second chance. I figure it will be easier to save up for the wheels/tires etc than to try to save for some of the more expensive items.

1. Strange 12 bolt w/3.73's
2. C5 Brake Kit- C5/C6 Calipers
3. Pre-oiler/ oil cooler (need help w/ putting together a full kit so I can order)
4. Front and rear sway bars, Torque arm and drive shaft
5. Seat and harness

Next year, Wheels/ tires/ new springs/shocks and gauges.

As for the pre-oil/cooler system- I am not sure what all I will need. I would like to go with a EPC set-up. Can the sandwich method be used for this version? I will call accusump for some clarification.

any input is welcome

1. Strange 12 bolt w/3.73's

Not only is this not necessary but its going to hurt your handling and ride quality. Your taking a step backwards here and money could be more wisely spent on other things first.

2. C5 Brake Kit- C5/C6 Calipers
3. Pre-oiler/ oil cooler (need help w/ putting together a full kit so I can order)

Not a bad idea but also not something needed first.

4. Front and rear sway bars, Torque arm and drive shaft

Heres one problem, before spending anymore money for suspension fix your biggest problem first: those sportlines. Sell them, burn them, throw them off a cliff, whatever gets the job done. They are useless for anything but looks and are going to be really holding you back. You would be better off on stock springs than these.

Not only is this not necessary but its going to hurt your handling and ride quality. Your taking a step backwards here and money could be more wisely spent on other things first.

Not a bad idea but also not something needed first.

Heres one problem, before spending anymore money for suspension fix your biggest problem first: those sportlines. Sell them, burn them, throw them off a cliff, whatever gets the job done. They are useless for anything but looks and are going to be really holding you back. You would be better off on stock springs than these.

it doesnt sound like hes taking much advice. more like he just has money burning a hole and wants to throw it at the car.

hoosier, supposed to be the harder compound. some of them used to have tread, and were either shaved or used till slicks. im thinking a hard comp. rain tire, if possible? they have 'koni' stamped into the sidewall, so whatever turner motorsports ran on their beamers in the koni challenge.

Oh, you've got what we call "GACs"! GAC = Grand Am Cup. Those are fun tires. Friend of mine ran them and loves them. Not the fastest in the world, but consistent as can be and long lasting.

They are essentially the same as the Hoosier R6. Almost the same internal construction. But, a slightly harder compound. They are not DOT rated, however treat them as if they were. Same alignment and such. -2 camber is probably more than enough.

Are they a 275 width? If so, then it is the EXACT same tire that he ran. They're slower than Kumhos, Hoosier A6s, and most slicks. They'll be faster than Toyos or Nittos, though.

Not only is this not necessary but its going to hurt your handling and ride quality. Your taking a step backwards here and money could be more wisely spent on other things first.

Not a bad idea but also not something needed first.

Heres one problem, before spending anymore money for suspension fix your biggest problem first: those sportlines. Sell them, burn them, throw them off a cliff, whatever gets the job done. They are useless for anything but looks and are going to be really holding you back. You would be better off on stock springs than these.
^^^ Noted.

it doesnt sound like hes taking much advice. more like he just has money burning a hole and wants to throw it at the car.

I appreciate EVERYONE'S feed back

I have not spent any money yet.
I am listening.
I'm not interested in 1/4 mile, it's too boring.
I enjoy the short runs on the street/highway
I dont want to build the car Strictly for Road racing. I like taking my son for a ride on weekends and to car shows.

But I like having my cake and eating it too. SO. If I have to pull my stock seat out and swap for the road coarse once a month that's fine, or pull my nice show wheels for some track wheels that is fine too.
I put down 600RWHP w/ the giggle juice. 440 without. If I "reinforce" the 10 bolt will it hold up?

If I trash the 10 bolt racing, how much is a replacement... installed?

If I don't order the 12 bolt, that should free up some green for the springs/shocks.

And yes. The money is burning a hole in my pocket, If I don't spent it my wife will find a way to.

Oh, you've got what we call "GACs"! GAC = Grand Am Cup. Those are fun tires. Friend of mine ran them and loves them. Not the fastest in the world, but consistent as can be and long lasting.

They are essentially the same as the Hoosier R6. Almost the same internal construction. But, a slightly harder compound. They are not DOT rated, however treat them as if they were. Same alignment and such. -2 camber is probably more than enough.

Are they a 275 width? If so, then it is the EXACT same tire that he ran. They're slower than Kumhos, Hoosier A6s, and most slicks. They'll be faster than Toyos or Nittos, though.


275/40/17. i have -1.2 and 1.3 camber, if you read my post on frrax. i probably could get more, but its going to be alot of trial and error involving taking the entire front susp. apart, back together, repeat repeat.

ive only had one very tight autox on them so far. but they were better then my nearly worn out 615s. this sunday is my first track day with them, albiet on another tight road course.

so R6 pressures are a good start?

If I have to pull my stock seat out and swap for the road coarse once a month that's fine, or pull my nice show wheels for some track wheels that is fine too.

why would you swap seats? there are many aftermarket seats that are built for double duty. even some pure race seats can be more comfortable then a stock seat. do more research, see whats out there. there is no reason to swap a seat. my arizen has slots for my 5pt, and is more comfortable then my stock was, taking in consideration i had the full power TA seat, which many agree was more comfortable then a camaro.

for wheels.....duh. i have 3 sets of wheels im constantly swapping. i have streets, autox, and track rims, plus another set of bare rims just in case i want another option. everyone who gets the least bit serious about tracking swaps tires. not seats.



I put down 600RWHP w/ the giggle juice. 440 without. If I "reinforce" the 10 bolt will it hold up?

If I trash the 10 bolt racing, how much is a replacement... installed?


any autox or track you go to will require the complete removal of a NOS system. what you make on that doesnt matter, it wont be in the car anyway.

if done right, a built 10 bolt will last years and years. only people who professionally race actually go through them, and then its usually just the diffs that go. for anyone just doing track days and autox, within reason, youre not going to trash the rear. youre not drag racing. you dont have a standing start on super sticky tires, powershifting into 2nd and 3rd. no track day has a standing start, and any autox lot wont have the traction to do harm to a rear.

if you ever find yourself doing a drag launch, or having to powershift and slam gears on a track day, youre doing it wrong. you dont get faster by slamming gears. you get faster by learning the proper line through a curve, learning when and where to hit the brakes or gas.

my rear howls. why? because of the ONE time i spent drag racing at a race/car show. it was dead silent before. then after 6 passes on sumi tires, she howled. after all the autoxing or track days ive done, not once did it make my rear howl.

if you MUST mess with the rear, buy a stock 10 bolt, and build that. CM axles, quality gears, T2R or equivalent, TA girdle, longer ARP studs. keep your original stock just in case.

if youre dying to replace something, then the very FIRST thing you should do is get a turn one power steering pump with better fluid. ask me how i know.

you may need to hide money from your wife......thats not our problem. what we're doing is trying to tell you the right direction to specifically go, rather then replacing everything with a nut and bolt. i only race for fun, but you know how i learned? at the track, and research online. look at my above post. i asked 2000 Trans about the tires, because he used them and has past experience. im taking his advice, doing more research about the pressures, and going from there. when we're telling you about things like brakes, tires, rear end, its because we've been there, or at least have past exp. with these exact items.

275/40/17. i have -1.2 and 1.3 camber, if you read my post on frrax. i probably could get more, but its going to be alot of trial and error involving taking the entire front susp. apart, back together, repeat repeat.

ive only had one very tight autox on them so far. but they were better then my nearly worn out 615s. this sunday is my first track day with them, albiet on another tight road course.

so R6 pressures are a good start?

You're perfect with the alignment - no need to change anything. Using R6 pressures (for road racing, not autox) will be a great starting point. You'll be perhaps 1-2psi from perfect.

what would autox pressures be? and road course......i looked on frrax but didnt find anything on R6s after 5min of reading back logs.

Sorry, I thought they'd be around here or there somewhere.

Hoosier recommends about 180-200* temps for the R6, with 37-41psi (hot). What your starting pressures are depend upon the starting temps. Take temps at the beginning of the day. Or, if you're like me, just use the ambient temp.

Today is about 90*, so let's use that. I want to get them to 180*. Pressure rises about 1psi for every 10*. Also, I usually used around 5psi less in my rear tires than my fronts (autox experience that carried over to RR, and it works still).

So, I know that I'm going to gain about 9psi getting from 90* to 180*. If I want to be at 41F/36R, then I should start at 32F/26R.

That should be a good ballpark. You may want to mess around with the split front-to-back, or raise lower them together. But, it'll be close.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with a few of the previous posts:

Forget the 12 bolt (at least for now).

If you must spend $...

1st- Buy a set of good street tires (Toyos, Nittos, or Flaken 615s) and you can drive them to the track. I'm of the mindset race tires hide driving mistakes especially in newer drivers.

2nd- Call up Strano and get Sway Bars, Konis, and Springs (and many will say a pan-hard bar).

3rd- Upgrade to C5 front brakes and good pads.

That said. Your best use of $ would be on drivers schools and track times. These cars usually put more on the table than a novice can use (myself included). I didn't need the brake upgrade until this year (after two successful seasons).


On a side note, you guys find -1.2 camber to be enough? Thats what I was running until this year. I purchased the GW front upper arms and went to -2.1. It might be different for me as I run street tire class w Toyo R1Rs. Tire wear seemed to imply I needed more neg camber...

-1.5 was fine for me. I'd cord the middle of front tires, with the whole tire looking like it was ready to come apart. This was with R6s, A6s, and V710s.

As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.

That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.

i ran my 710s alot lower, like 31f 29r or so. ill see how it goes this sunday.

-1.5 was fine for me. I'd cord the middle of front tires, with the whole tire looking like it was ready to come apart. This was with R6s, A6s, and V710s.

As for race tires, if you are comparing a new driver on race tires against someone on street tires, then they do mask some mistakes. However, as soon as you compare race tires to race tires, they are evident. Also, street tires are a LOT more forgiving of mistakes. If you get loose, they come back easier than if a race tire breaks loose. And, street tires give you audible clues to what's going on. Race tires make you feel it with your butt.

That said, it's more of an arguement of street tires for new guys. But, I don't think they hide as much as people think.

Yeah, looking at my tires they show more wear in the middle than anything, but the outside edge is definitely more beat up than the inside. Maybe I went a little to far jumping a whole degree (to -2.1). I'll see what the next race does to them. I may have to back off a bit.

This is mostly track abuse, not many road miles. Is there any way to combat wearing out the centers? Or does that just indicate you are dialed in as far as camber? Less tire pressure maybe?

As for the street tire thing, its like you said. More forgiving, and the noise issue to warn you are near the edge. I didn't articulate my point much, but you explained my thought process there.

use tire chalk on the sidewall and keep lowering pressure until you see the sidewall rolling too much. Chasing the heat and build up is more of a challenge. I currently run the d70(soft) Hankook ventus DOT r tire 275 17 and really like them. I start cold at 35/33 and they end up sliding too much at the end so I need to drop a few lbs. I have 1.5 camber and the tires wear well.

That said. Your best use of $ would be on drivers schools and track times. These cars usually put more on the table than a novice can use (myself included).

I completely agree with this.


I will be trying out the new NT05 tires this weekend.

maybe i didn't see it...but have you ever been on the track in the Camaro as-is? Or any car? Do you have any experience driving a car on the track?

maybe i didn't see it...but have you ever been on the track in the Camaro as-is? Or any car? Do you have any experience driving a car on the track?

I have ridden in a Porsche (passenger) and chased my close friends SS.
I have not taken my car on a road track yet.

I have scratched the 12 bolt off the list. and replacing with springs/shocks
and upgrading front/rear sway bars

Strengthening the 10 bolt

Some other questions I have are:
I been looking at buying a set of wheels (I am NOT taking my Budniks to the track) What would be the most efficient wheel size? 18" front rear or 17" front 18" rear? 9.5 front and 10.5 or 11?
------------------------------------------------
I just saw this on your list of mods 00 Trans Ram..."WHEELS - 17x11 ZR-1 replicas w/ corded Yokohama slicks - 18x10.5 C6 repl
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Seat, I would like to remove the race seat while not on track, would like for it to recline so I am comfortable and would like to stay under $400.

Can I just use my stock seatbelt? (3point)

cheap wheels are the 17x11 ZR1s on all 4 with 315/35/17s...you will wear out hubs fast though



if you have never taken your car on the track you shouldn't be spending any money (accept for good pads and fresh brake fluid), you need to take the car as it is to the track and just get seat time. You can throw all the $$ you want at the car and then not know how to drive it with what it has. Not everyone does this, but the track isn't a great place to screw around in a very capable car with an un-experienced driver (no offense..). The best way to get into racing, hpde's, etc, is seat time seat time seat time. The best place to spend your money right now is seat time. Yes belts and a good seat are worth getting now (as well as a cage, roll bar, or harness bar), but the rest of the performance mods should wait IMO.

I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post

I am Joe's (Blackfly) nemesis on the streets here ...j/k. What are the rules with regards to blowers on cars? Can they be run?

I have been reading these posts and have a website www.texasperformanceevents.com . We have a road racing section there that a number of us are trying to get going. Would really appreciate you guys taking the time to join and post up some on that section as this is good stuff.

The plan is to have a web designer come in and set up certain functionality that will allow folks to rate various tracks/races/other venues so others can see the participants experiences before investing time to attend, if not what they were looking for, or if was a poor event.

I have sportlines too but after reading this are taking those off now and putting a Strano package on the car. Speaking of braking, how often do you find yourself really coming down on the brakes hard? Or, is it more of just a continuous braking pattern around tight turns..? Like Joe, hard line braking in my Baers are not really that good.

What power range do most of the cars run? Mine is about the same as Joe's..actually more :)...j/k. Seems I have read that 400whp in these cars like ours tends to suffice.

it all depends on the type of racing you want to get into, but for the most part aftermarket blowers don't go into very many "race" groups. in T1 class with SCCA the supercharged cobra can be ran in our group, but they aren't competitive so no one does..

If you are really racing, you are braking as hard and late as possible

if you have never taken your car on the track you shouldn't be spending any money (accept for good pads and fresh brake fluid), you need to take the car as it is to the track and just get seat time. You can throw all the $$ you want at the car and then not know how to drive it with what it has. Not everyone does this, but the track isn't a great place to screw around in a very capable car with an un-experienced driver (no offense..). The best way to get into racing, hpde's, etc, is seat time seat time seat time. The best place to spend your money right now is seat time. Yes belts and a good seat are worth getting now (as well as a cage, roll bar, or harness bar), but the rest of the performance mods should wait IMO.

I'm actually very surprised this hasn't been brought up yet; and if it has and I missed it, it is definitely worth the re-post

we're still trying to convey that to him. i think hes going to have to learn the hard way.

to answer his other questions, for what good it will do:

all you need to start with are 17x9 or 9.5 with good tires. 17x11s will require spacers and fender rolling.

as i said before, you DONT NEED to swap a seat. you CAN get a 'race seat' that reclines, has lumbar support, and 5pt compatable. ask me how i know...i have one. reclines, leather, lumbar, 5pt, embroidered. you can get two mad racing seats for $300. do some research and shop around. you can even find used seats for that price and less. theres a guy on my local fbody forum selling two adjustable, 5pt seats for $250.

you should and will use your stock belts until you get a proper cage, bar, or harness bar. if you ever use the back seat, you more then likely wont be able to use anything but the stock belts.

I thought the C5 break conversion will not work with 17's up front?!!?

.... Speaking of braking, how often do you find yourself really coming down on the brakes hard? Or, is it more of just a continuous braking pattern around tight turns..? Like Joe, hard line braking in my Baers are not really that good.


OK, no offense, but that tells me that you guys don't really know much about this. I am fairly new(7 HPDEs) at this, not a racer, and am always learning. Yes, you use the brakes very hard and you don't (not initially anyway) use the brakes through a turn. In order: brake, turn, gas.

To the OP, make sure the brakes are in good order(pads and fluid) and do some HPDEs. You need track time with an instructor. You have not done on the street what you can do on a road coarse with instruction. I went to my first HPDE with the attitude that I know nothing about how to go fast around a track. You know what? I was right! You've got more than enough car for now. I am just now making changes (suspension, tires, alignment) to improve the car. A good instructor can have you doing things in your car that you did not think it could do.

Enough bashing, now some encouragement. This stuff is a blast! A day on the track is, without a doubt, the most fun I can have with my car. Warning: it's addictive.

Hope this helps.

Warning: it's addictive.



a drug addiction would be cheaper..

OK, no offense, but that tells me that you guys don't really know much about this. I am fairly new(7 HPDEs) at this, not a racer, and am always learning. Yes, you use the brakes very hard and you don't (not initially anyway) use the brakes through a turn. In order: brake, turn, gas.

To the OP, make sure the brakes are in good order(pads and fluid) and do some HPDEs. You need track time with an instructor. You have not done on the street what you can do on a road coarse with instruction. I went to my first HPDE with the attitude that I know nothing about how to go fast around a track. You know what? I was right! You've got more than enough car for now. I am just now making changes (suspension, tires, alignment) to improve the car. A good instructor can have you doing things in your car that you did not think it could do.

Enough bashing, now some encouragement. This stuff is a blast! A day on the track is, without a doubt, the most fun I can have with my car. Warning: it's addictive.

Hope this helps.

Well...since I am replacing my fuel pump I have to drop the Rear. (not gonna cut my car up) Since i'm dropping rear I might as well freshen it up and swap out my suspension parts. After a 60/130 event I realized my calipers/eradispeeds suck ass! So Im gonna upgrade those as well. Since my car sits in the garage and gets out on a nice fri/sat night (sometimes). My car would benefit very well with a pre-oiler. And since I will not race with my Budnicks I will have to also get a new set of wheels

Now, since I'm strengthening the rear end do I get the Detroit Trutrac or the T2R?

I thought the C5 break conversion will not work with 17's up front?!!?

They work w 17s. In fact C5s have 17" front wheels.

I think the exception is TTIIs if I remember right.