Special Edition Vehicles - Sell or Modify low mile HOSS

So I am at a cross roads with my '99 HOSS... I ordered this car new in the spring of '99 and have garage kept and pampered it for the last 10 plus years accumulating only around 12k miles.

I've done a few simple bolt on mods and had it down a drag strip and to a couple of autocrosses, but I've not seriously modified the car. In the beginning it was because I did not have the money... now I am resisting modifying the car due to a potential impact on its value (since it seems to have some potential as a collectors car down the road).

At this point the car just no longer thrills me and I rarely drive it. After a drive the other day I really looked at it hard and questioned keeping it. My problem is that for the most part, it just doesn't offer enough performance to make me overlook all the negatives (like that every single part of the car needs to modified... better brakes, suspension, clutch, rear end, wheels, seats, etc. etc.).

In theory I can "mod" most of the issues out of the car... but it does not take long to exceed the value of the car in parts alone (not including my time to install them). It also requires that I modify nearly every single part of the car. As much as I'd like to stay with "bolt-ons" there really is no such thing when you start changing out what amounts to the whole drivetrain.

So the question is... Should I just sell this car as an original low mileage car (remove the few bolt-ons that are already on it) and buy something closer to what I want, or keep it and extensively modify the hell out of it to make it worth keeping to me? (I wouldn't be buying another 4th gen to meet my needs btw)

My question is more to get a feel from the 4th gen community if there is any reason to "save" a reasonably rare low mileage example of these cars.

For the record its a hardtop 6sp car w/ grey leather and everything is currently factory new (still smells new inside).

Thanks...

1. It's a 12k mile 6spd HOSS
2. It's a HARDTOP 12k mile 6spd HOSS

That right there says DO NOT MOD.

If I were you I'd do one of the following;

1. Keep the HOSS stock and use it as a cruiser/show car and get a $4000 98-99 Z28 and go hog wild with the mods. Who cares if it's a 100k mile car, why pay extra for lower miles on stuff you plan to replace anyways?

2. Sell the HOSS and buy something that will better fit your needs.

Just remember every HOSS out there that isn't $20,000 has been modified. EVERY ONE. I've looked for 5 years trying to find a clean unmolested HOSS 6spd with under 30k miles and have not been successful.

Outside of a GMMG car or 35th, the HOSS is probably one of the most diserable 98-02s.

69Camaross,

That's a really nice collection you have there.

I think the rarity of the low mile original HOSS is what I'm having a problem with. It makes it "wrong" to weld in subframe connectors, paint some stripes, and do the BFH mod to fit some serious rubber under the car... and heaven forbid, weld in a roll bar if I just want to enter it into some events that require that level of safety equipment (silver state classic comes to mind).

In a way its wrong that I ended up with this car... I'm too much of a racer and a wrencher to want a stock collectable. I know for a fact that if I had any other color than orange... I would have sold this car years ago. The orange just sort of pulls at me.

I really don't want to own more than one "hobby / toy" car (I just sold my Formula Firehawk... also a hardtop, 6 sp, 25k mile car). There is just is not enough time, money, or garage space to go around.

So I guess that's one vote for keeping it stock...

Don't mod it! Of all the 4th gens the HOSS is probably my favorite.

Do you have a price in mind?????

Thanks,
Greg

If you can in any way afford to keep the HOSS you should. No one can see 10 or 15 years into the future, but, this is probably one car you will look back at and kick yourself in the ass for not keeping. Don't mod and keep all your original parts. Drive a beater if that what it takes.

Of the four Camaros I've got my HOSS would be the last to go. YMMV.

I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be pretty one sided LOL.

Stock seems to be the popular vote. I posted in the "what's it worth" section and haven't gotten any ideas. The problem with what to ask is there is very little available as a comparison. There's always a HOSS for sale, but I don't remember seeing any with low miles AND stock AND hardtop AND 6sp.

Its not a matter of affording to keep it, its never been a daily driver, never needed to be, and won't be in the future (my G8 GT is a great daily). I can leave this car parked in my garage for another 50 years and its not a problem.

Its a matter of affording to keep it AND have a car that I can use to "play" on a race track... and if the HOSS is stock, I'm not going to bother with it on a track. It just needs too much to make it work well on the track (its not bad, but anybody who's ever raced knows how you are always looking for a little more and the modifications are endless in that chase for just a little more :)

I guess I could always just put the track time on the back burner for another 5 years or so until I don't have a car payment... then use the extra money to buy another car later.

Its not for sale yet... just thinking about it. Exploring my options.

You will have a tough time finding a pristine HOSS for sale. Especially a HT. A 1LE, and I believe there were 6 or so made, would be like owning gold. My 1,000 mile, still in plastic with the window sticker in place, M6, HT cost $32k more than 2 years ago. It was the only one I found that was anywhere close to what I wanted. The same guy that owned my HOSS had it's twin with less than 10 miles on it. He wouldn't even discuss selling it. No offer interested him.

What seems like a lot of money today won't seem like much in 15 years or so.

What seems like a lot of money today won't seem like much in 15 years or so.

That's probably a really good point...

Its your car, do what makes ya happy. if you want to mod it then mod it, if your gonna feel guilty about it then get something else to mod.

I dont feel one bit guilty about modding the car in my sig and i know alot of people would do alot of bad things for it. In the end its just a car.

Its your car, do what makes ya happy. if you want to mod it then mod it, if your gonna feel guilty about it then get something else to mod.

I dont feel one bit guilty about modding the car in my sig and i know alot of people would do alot of bad things for it. In the end its just a car.

So you've got the 1LE A4!! How many miles? What do you plan to do with it?
I know I've said that would be one super collectible car one day.....but, you know you can't believe a word I say. Who's fuller of shit than me? I'm a real kidder! :jest:

Dump it now while you can! How much?

Im the original owner of the car. ordered it in feb 99 and picked it up in jul 99 car was built in mar 99. currently has just a tick over 40k on it now.
I have no desire to part with this car. I bought it when i was 21 and busted my ass to afford it at the time. now its pretty much a garage queen cause i currently cant afford to finish the twin turbo build on it.
im sure it might be worth something someday but im not gonna shelter the poor car til it is, it was made to be driven.

Exactly, it was made to be driven. It can serve on other purpose. With you on that one brother. Drive her into the ground! :cool:

Im fine with people wanting to drive their cars.... however I think some should be taken care of and used as cruise in/car show cars.

If I had a car that was a 1 of 1 I would have serious problems doing anything to it other then preventive maintenance..

Granted I don't drive my fun stuff much, less then 100 miles a year or so.

On the flip side it makes the others more valuable when there is say 3 cars made and they know the other two have a lot of miles are are built....


Ther is a local with 3 red Third Gen Camaro's..... one of them is an original owner fully loaded 92 Z with ALL the paperwork and less then 800 original miles..... not 8000 or 80000, 800. His 86 Z is his race car and his 87 ish IROC has a blower and is his street car. A year or so ago a 1LE 92Z sold at Barret for like 30k....... his has less miles but not a 1LE..... yeah don't count on that car even having over 1,000 miles with him owning it... just worth way to much...... bet it would pull 20k+ easy....

I am on the edge of owning a low build car......the HOSS cars that have low build numbers that are low miles and mint are going for 15k+. I think unless someone got one at or near that price SOON it will not be an investment at all. Get one for 15-20k now and wait 10-20 years and keep the miles down and there is a chance it will be worth something... you never know though....... I would have to have a fun car though to keep me out of the "money" car though.

They may be the next LT4 valued cars though....... look at the numbers those are pulling..... inflation is a big factor though.... people are selling GN's for 20k range now and are in some cases the orginal owner..... people druel over this on how an 80's car can bring that but in the 80's if they got it for say 15k they are loosing money in the send selling it for 20k I bet.

Am I saying to get a car an burry it in the corner of the garage for 30 years? No, chances are it will not bring the money after infation...... The 69's did not cost a lot then and now sell for 20k easy for even a mint clone but in 69 I bet the cost of them from the dealer is close to our 20k now....


I just like having low mile stuff that is rather rare because it is not something you see all the time and I know it would sell quick...

My 83Z had 26k original miles....... people noticed that and the condition and not the options......... 90% of the people out there would notice a nice HOSS, not that it is a 1 of 1 car.......

Most "people" out there have never seen a HOSS and never will.

Here's the key issue in this particular situation.

1. From his post is sounds like in order for this car to meet his needs he's going to have to completely gut it. New drivetrain, new suspension, new braking system, plus upgrades to the supporting systems. To me that says a minimum investment of $10,000.

2. I also kind of picked up that the owner isn't 100% sure that even after he spends this money to upgrade this car that he'll be 100% happy with the end result.

With those 2 points in mind, while I am usually against modifying pristine rare 4th gens, if someone wants to mod their's well thats their choice as they own the car and can do what they want to it. The difference here is, he can sell this car for a MINIMUM of $15,000.

Option 1: Take the money earned from the HOSS and that potential $10,000 of mod money, lump it together and you are now in low mileage 02-04 Z06 territory.

Option 2: Buy a run of the mill 00-02 higher mileage SS for $8000 and spend the remainder of the money earned from the HOSS and you'll have your "race car" and probably haven't invested any additional money.

Option 3: just to throw a curve ball $25,000 will buy you a nice 1980's Ferrari 308 or Porsche 911 turbo (maybe even a 930). How cool would that be to turn one of those into a race car?

1. From his post is sounds like in order for this car to meet his needs he's going to have to completely gut it. New drivetrain, new suspension, new braking system, plus upgrades to the supporting systems. To me that says a minimum investment of $10,000.

2. I also kind of picked up that the owner isn't 100% sure that even after he spends this money to upgrade this car that he'll be 100% happy with the end result.



69camaross is pretty much right on the money here.

I've added up what I believe would be a "conservative" estimate of what it would cost to MAYBE turn the HOSS into the car I'd really like and it gets up over $10k in a big hurry... I think I would likely top $20k when every receipt was added up (I'm not talking about a cat back and some Torque Thursts here LOL). This is with me turning 100% of the wrenches by the way...

After all that, its still the same car... it just stops, turns, accelerates, and maybe looks better (looks are so objective).

If I had more time and money, then this wouldn’t be an issue… I’d just keep the HOSS stock and park it in the corner for nice days and have who knows how many other toys to pound on a track when the mood strikes.

That said, I just don't know what direction I would go if I got another car.

There are a lot of interesting options to me:
1. Newer state of the art sports cars, coupes, or sedans…
2. Classic cars retro-fitted with modern running gear…
3. 1 of a kind custom built cars or kit cars (w/ handling as the priority)
4. True no compromises 4th gen built for road racing... but street legal (barely) with no care for aesthetics whatsoever.

All have their pro's and con's... each appeals to me in different ways and I favor a different approach depending on what mood I'm in.

I think I only have a low mile stock HOSS at this point because I never got around to modifying it… never because I wouldn’t. Having low miles in pristine factory condition have made it rarer than I would have thought. Even though I love to play with my cars, I still have a soft spot for preserving “special” cars.

I’m still deciding what to do… though at this point I think it is staying stock. I just don’t know if I will keep it or sell it and get something else.

MOD IT/DRIVE IT....will not be a collector in this world later on.

I do not see cars being collector items 30-40 years from now. It is unfortunate. But the interest is just not there like in the 50s and 60s. I am 22, and it seems like my generation has this mentality...if you can't drink it or smoke it...their not interested in it.

baby cam and bolt ons will do u just fine...... u can always take the cam back out later on

MOD IT/DRIVE IT....will not be a collector in this world later on.


It doesn't matter whether or not it will be worth more in the future. The point is the car is worth WAY more than it should be RIGHT NOW. Everybody wants a factory orange Camaro. To get one you either drop $20,000+ on a 67-72, buy a 99 HOSS, or spend $35,000+ for a 2010.


T-Hawk, put it up for sale and see what happens. Who knows somebody may through $22,000 at you. I'd have a hard time turning that down.

I can identify so easily with where you are coming from because I've been there. I had a 95 Firehawk with 17,000 miles that I basically let rot in my garage and never drove and refused to mod. I sold it for a pretty penny a few years ago but did I honestly get my money's worth out of that car from an enjoyment stand point? I don't really think so. It was a super nice car but was too nice to mod or "tear up".

Then I built this 69 Camaro SS and went WAY overboard. I replaced EVERYTHING and I mean everything on this car to make it like it literally just rolled off the assembly line. From getting the correct green tint glass, to a factory AM/FM radio, to having the correct SS stripe that's painted on the fender and a sticker on the door, this car was mint. But........ again, it was "too nice to drive" and I probably had $20,000 in the restoration alone excluding the car. and this was just to get it to new 1969 standards, I hadn't even begun to pro-tour it. So again it sat as you can't drive a car like that everyday. I thought about pro-touring it but I'd easily have thrown another $10,000 at the car pushing my total investment even higher and making it even harder for me to stomach the car getting a rock chip or scratch.

When I sold it I made a deal with myself, I'd buy a muscle car that I could drive everyday, tastefully upgrade, yet still be ok with rock chips, and putting miles on it and not have a whole lot of money in it. No more "static garage art" cars.

I think for me the amount invested factors more into my decisions as I think about pro touring a Chevelle or Camaro all the time, or building a GT40 kit car, or an IROC SCCA race car, but then I start looking at what I'd need to invest to make one of those meet my criteria and instantly I'm way too deeply invested to then turn around and use the car like it should be used. Plus right now I don't have the time nor local resources to seriously justify a car that's for race or car show purposes only.

Will I build one some day for track purposes only, probably but for now I'm having too much fun just driving this LS1 on the street.

Sit down with a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle. On the left side put what you want in a car, on the right put what you'll actually use it for. Then chose a few build ideas you have, compare it to your list and factor what you think each of those ideas would cost. Once factored see if you can stomach the investment and end use. Chose the one that you're the most "OK" with.

Hope this helps you with your decision.

I can see where you are coming from in the idea of preserving the car, being what it is. But if it is value you are trying to preserve, then that is in the eye of the beholder. A low mileage, tastefully modded car, in a combo that is desirable...is worth more than a bone stock SS in a good combo TO ME. I am sure there are other people like me, and would pay a premium for this. I know I did I bought my 12k mile SS 6 spd hardtop in white, because low mileage and white is what i wanted. So I paid for it. My older brother has a HOSS 6spd convt with 40k on it that is also tastefully and quality built that he paid over 20k for. In my opinion those are the most attractive 4th gen cars....the ones in pristine condition with the muscle, looks, and performance that we all really want...especially in a good color. Anything that is done to the car, can be reversed down the road when somebody wants to restore or return it to stock condition....like we all do now (to anyone who has restored an old camaro knows what I am talking about). If you are looking for a real return on investment...then invest the money in something other late model cars. I would rather a H/C/I 6 spd hoss than a z06 that I can see 5 on my way to work. I think you could realistically make a car that would satisfy your performance needs for more like 7-8k. Good shocks springs sway bars wheels/ quality tires, would handle worlds better than stock. Do you really need these cars to brake any better than they do?? C5 Conversion maybe??H/C/I and a good tune and you would have a completely different car.....sorry for the long post. Just wanted to put my perspective in. It is your car so do what makes you happy...I just grow attached to cars like that and could never sell. Keep that gem and make it something unique for yourself.

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. Its all good stuff. I'm glad there are some folks that understand where I am coming from. I can definitely identify with some of the things others have posted regarding their own "garage queen" struggles LOL.

My desire to preserve has nothing to do with impacting the value of the car as the value is "zero" as long as its not for sale. Value can only be determined when somebody hands over their hard earned cash for a car. Only then can you say it was worth something. As long as I keep the car, it has no "cash" benifit to me, only what it provides in enjoyment (that's priceless right LOL).

My desire to preserve the car (or not) has only to do with some respect for the rarity of the car. Which now that it is over 10 years old has to do as much with a rare factory options combo as it does with how well preserved it is at this age (I'd probably have some hesitation with any color pristine, low mile, one owner, SS at this point).

That is what led me to post the question. I wanted to get a feel for what other's thought about it. Both the good and the bad.

In the end it is my car, and I can and will do whatever I want to it.

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing at this point.

Definately keep us posted on the car. I would love to see what you do with it and would definitely want to know if this car goes up for sale. I love the hardtops and will own a HOSS one of these days.

buy another (cheaper) fbody and mod that one. youre car is one of the few i would have to resist modding. if it was a 50k mile HOSS, id mod, but not a 12k mile.

I've decided to back halve and cage the car and go with a blown alcohol 572 poking through the hood... just kidding :)

I think I'm going to do a lot more research on a few things and then weigh my options... Some of that research is checking out a group of vehicles that I "might" consider as replacements and looking at my budget, then weighing that against my goals (and being realistic with myself).

I've got a few ideas...

Any major purchases will likely come AFTER the economy is a little healthier... don't want to end up in a situation where I have to sell a car I don't want to sell because I spent money I shouldn't.

Hey, just remember if you decide to sell. There's an Ass for every seat! LOL

to be honest, sell it. If you have lost the thrill of driving it, it will happen again. It happened to me. I went from running 14.1 (first time out) to 13.3 to 12.8 to 12.4 to 10.8 and the fun last about 2 runs and it was back to boring and i wasted 7 grand modding it. I'd say sell it high while you can and get a bike haha!

No bikes!!!! Been there, no more.

I'm not too worried about getting bored with a 1/4 mile pass as that's not my thing. I'm more about turning corners.

The great thing about auto-X or road courses, is the variety. AutoX is different every time, and there are enough road courses to keep you busy for a while too (doubt I'd ever get too bored with them). If you've driven in a straight line for 1320 ft, once... well, you get the idea.

Still, the point is taken about being bored with the car... the question I am exploring now is whether that would happen with something else eventually too? So I could spend a whole lot more than $7k to sell my car and get something else and still be bored.

Like you said, it sounds like it will cost quite a bit to get the car to do the types of things you'd like it to do (silver state classic, ect.). So if you are going for a car like that, I would say sell it and buy something thats already a little more suited for that type of stuff and one that you are not afraid to cut up. But if you just want to go a little faster I'm sure there are plenty of mods you could do to improve the car that could eventually be put back to stock if you ever do want to sell the car.

Most "people" out there have never seen a HOSS and never will.

I've seen 3 different ones in the past 3 months, one of which is my brothers car. One was at a cruise night while we were in my brothers HOSS. Wanted to talk to the guy but we were always going the other direction when I saw it. The other one I saw was at the track last week, and it was running mid-11's with nitrous.

Do you guys have more of a breakdown on the HOSS car's? Do you just have the breakdown on the 1LE type stuff? I think my brother's car is 1 of 75 HOSS's with t-tops and auto. He also has white leather seats which I would guess would be pretty rare if you could break that 75 down further.

The only HOSS I've EVER seen is in my garage. Actually I did see one other when I was shopping for one.

The only HOSS I've EVER seen is in my garage. Actually I did see one other when I was shopping for one.

Those are the only 3 I remember seeing in person, but then again I wasn't really looking for them from 99-04 (04 is when I bought my LS1) like I do these days. I guess my brothers doesn't count since I see it all the time, even saw it today.

I think I'll go spend a few minutes with mine right now!

They built ~375 hugger orange SS's in 1999. They are rare, but not super rare. I consider myself a collector, I like rare cars and have had a few. Personally, the hardtop is less desirable to me on a 4th gen. If I were presented equal condition and equal price cars that only had a roof difference, I'd take the t-top car over a hardtop. I'd take a convertible over both of those.

Like you, I also grew bored of my 99 HOSS. I sold it, mostly after finally realizing that I like the Pontiac Formula bodies more than the Camaro. I dig the hugger color, but the catfish face never looked as mean as the Firebird nose. Too bad they didn't make a hugger (carousel red) Pontiac 4th gen.

I've been at this same crossroad as you, multiple times. Mod it or sell it? Tough call. If you can see yourself never selling the HOSS, then by all means enjoy/mod it. It won't affect resale value if you never get rid of it anyways. Cars are meant to be enjoyed, and when the fun is gone it is time to move on. That same money you could receive for selling the HOSS right now could be put towards something more collectible at present time, if that is what you are into.

Currently, I have an '02 Formula Hawk that is only 1 of 16 built. I've left it mostly stock except for wheels and rotors. Like you said, I just have some respect for pristine stock examples of special cars. If I never planned to sell it, I'd probably mod it and drive it more. It only has 11K miles on it. But, I don't keep cars forever, and I've decided that stock cars just aren't for me. Modding the Hawk would kill the resale value of it, so I leave it alone. I'd rather have the cash, or some other car to modify and race.