Canadian Members - Can't pass e-test!!!!

Since putting on my Pacesetter LTs with the TSP catted y-pipe I can't pass the e-test. Failed all three tests at load, but pass at idle. I always passed before with all my other mods and tune.

Anyone who has the same y-pipe and passed? Also, what high-flow cats are other people using and passing the test.

What mods are on your car?

I passed '97 standards with:

6.0L LQ4
Stg. 1 LS6 cnc heads
222/224 on 112 cam
FAST intake
underdrive
Pacesetter race headers
Y with magnaflow 55959 bullet cat's

passed easy.

ASM Test
HC ppm - 18 - 242max
CO% - 0.03 - 1.92max
NO ppm - 169 - 2520max

Idle:
HC ppm - 195 - 300max
CO% - 0.09 - 1.50 max

Hot rod standards are listed. its about 35% higher then 97 standards, but you cans ee it would have passed with flying colours either way.

I've got every bolt on possible and tuned. It passed with flying colours as well before changing to the TSP cats. They are very small.

I've got every bolt on possible and tuned. It passed with flying colours as well before changing to the TSP cats. They are very small.

wonder if you could put magnaflows in place?

I based my Y off the TSP one, i fabricated it myself. its got awesome ground clearance, and the cats work like a champ

I know a couple guys in KW that passed with the TSP catted y and have a cam. Stock cam you should be able to pass with it. How old are the O2 sensors, spark plugs?

Fresh oil change?

What grade of fuel did you run? Can you run something lower (ie: 89 or 87) at least until you've passed the e-test? High octane fuel can be a killer for the sniff test.

Oil's fresh, plugs new, no trouble codes, etc.

I'm going to try leaning it out around 2000-2500 rpm and the gas line antifreeze / methanol addition.

TSP now says that these cats are not e-test friendly but I must be running a bit rich at the load test.

I did have 87 octane in it as I failed a couple of years ago with Sunoco 94, switched to Shell 87 and passed like a champ.

If all else fails it looks like the magnaflows could be the answer. I'd rather do that then just give McGuinty $450!!!!

I am gonna keep watch on this one, as I amy move to Ontario with my cammed 224 112 car (no cats), will most likely try the magna flows.

My car passed magnaflow cats no muffler you wana get your car really hot and don't put fresh oil in it a buddy of mine works at a drive clean centre says new oil is bad cause it actually puts out toxics to make it fail older the oil the better cause all the toxics are burnt off anyways ya the magnaflows sound great and pass the e test and my car runs rich on the motor cause I cruise around on a nitrous tune

Which Magnaflow cats do you use? If my leaned out tune and alcohol blend don't work replacing the small Carsounds with proper Magnaflow cats is the next step I think.

The cats are 3 inch highflow magnaflows off the shelf from a local napa

Make sure you get those things really hot before you go. They are far back so they don't heat up as easily as stock ones.

Mark

since its an ss register it as a collector car i know in kansas collector cars dont need emissions.

since its an ss register it as a collector car i know in kansas collector cars dont need emissions.

Doesn't work up here. Unless you've swapped to a motor that wasn't available in the car originally you have to meet the #'s for your year.

Which Magnaflow cats do you use? If my leaned out tune and alcohol blend don't work replacing the small Carsounds with proper Magnaflow cats is the next step I think.

91ZLS6 used the Magnaflow bullets. They are real small but do the job.

Bikesnbirds

thanks for the info -- you wouldn't happen to have P/N?

regards

keep us updated on how you pass...I think I may have a bit of an issue as well, my car stinks, but I think that could be a combination of oil leaking onto the Y-pipe, the high flow cat, and the 91 octane gas...I need to get my tests done in about a month or so...

just a side note...does it make a difference for etests (good or bad) if you leave your cutout open? (assuming the cutout is place a little further back, like just over the axle area)

Hmmm, open cutout? It would probably pass ..... it might actually pass "too good"?! :D (ie: such low emissions, it would look suspicious!). For that, you'd need to KNOW SOMEBODY at a shop who would allow you to do it. Otherwise, first thing a tech is going to notice is the gigantic exhaust "leak" you have, which is an instant FAIL, regardless of what comes out the tailpipe ;).

I've never heard that new oil has toxins in it that will cause a fail???! I sort of question that one. I know that an old truck I used to have in college (1990 1/2 ton with a 350 throttle body motor) would burn through a litre of oil every few days (SOMETHING was going down the sh!tter, that's for sure!) so it was essentially getting a fresh "oil change" every couple weeks. Somehow, that truck passed its e-test, and it wasn't even what I'd consider "borderline"?!?! :eek:

OK, getting ready for a re-test as I just got back from a long business trip.

Going with shell 87 gas, couple of pints of methyl alcohol and going to lean it out in the load test rpm range with my handheld.

I guess I'll look to the low voltage end of the 02 sensors -- around 850 mV at the load test rpm.

any other suggestions?

Hmmm, open cutout? It would probably pass ..... it might actually pass "too good"?! :D (ie: such low emissions, it would look suspicious!). For that, you'd need to KNOW SOMEBODY at a shop who would allow you to do it. Otherwise, first thing a tech is going to notice is the gigantic exhaust "leak" you have, which is an instant FAIL, regardless of what comes out the tailpipe ;).

I've never heard that new oil has toxins in it that will cause a fail???! I sort of question that one. I know that an old truck I used to have in college (1990 1/2 ton with a 350 throttle body motor) would burn through a litre of oil every few days (SOMETHING was going down the sh!tter, that's for sure!) so it was essentially getting a fresh "oil change" every couple weeks. Somehow, that truck passed its e-test, and it wasn't even what I'd consider "borderline"?!?! :eek:

I tried it. It didn't work :( I still failed w/ cutout open.


What portion did you fail on?

Send me a PM too!

just a side note...does it make a difference for etests (good or bad) if you leave your cutout open? (assuming the cutout is place a little further back, like just over the axle area)

Technically they aren't supposed to test the car with an exhaust leak so they should say "no".

However, the test is in parts-per-million so the cutout won't do much.

Another trick is to turn off the closed loop monitoring and run the car in open loop. That way you have ultimate control over the amount of fuel going in...just have to be careful with how lean to run it or you will burn up the cats. You can also trigger the air pump to dump extra air in the exhaust (make sure to trigger the solenoid too). It's a little more involved, but if the cam is big enough it may be needed.

Mark

I have a set of Kooks LT and catted y-pipe. The cats are small on them too, and they are not stopping much. I looked inside mine, and it's basically a roll of paper inside. I got the cat efficiency low code after installing, and mechanic says they aren't worth much.

I got the codes deleted, but in a couple years when it's close to e-test time again, I'll change them out to magnaflows.

Technically they aren't supposed to test the car with an exhaust leak so they should say "no".

However, the test is in parts-per-million so the cutout won't do much.

Another trick is to turn off the closed loop monitoring and run the car in open loop. That way you have ultimate control over the amount of fuel going in...just have to be careful with how lean to run it or you will burn up the cats. You can also trigger the air pump to dump extra air in the exhaust (make sure to trigger the solenoid too). It's a little more involved, but if the cam is big enough it may be needed.

Mark

Good info, I'll keep this in mind when I go sometime next week...will they let you sit in the car with Hp tuners plugged in while they run the test do you think? I know you only get 3 times to be tested before you HAVE to begin repairing stuff...My cat and all my O2's are brand new...so are the spark plugs and stuff...I'm not going to start replacing new stuff, with new stuff...I know if I fail it will definetly be due to the tune I am running...so I would like scans of each run...think they might have an issue with that?

i passed e test with no cat and 10 pounds of boost :D

I just failed NOx on pretty much stock Z28:( everything else passed with flying numbers. Everywhere I look at, people have different limits for NOx numbers, is it predetermined for each car specifically? Funny part is all I did this summer was get CAI, replaced cat with Magnaflow and flushed/changed coolant...

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1953/emissionsr.jpg



ASM Test
HC ppm - 18 - 242max
CO% - 0.03 - 1.92max
NO ppm - 169 - 2520max

Hot rod standards are listed. its about 35% higher then 97 standards, but you cans ee it would have passed with flying colours either way.

Wow, even after 35% thats a high accepted number of NOx comparing to what I had, I would have passed...

Are my NOx really high? Or did the local shop just ripped me off:bang:? And any suggestion to reduce the NOx?

Thanks in advance!

that seems like a low limit...I just passed mine and I had a limit of I believe 436 (I read 429)...either way though your putting out 574 and that seems pretty high...

Bikesnbirds

thanks for the info -- you wouldn't happen to have P/N?

regards

Sorry, just checked back on this thread. Magnaflow pn is 59959, 3" in/out

Steve

I just failed NOx on pretty much stock Z28:( everything else passed with flying numbers. Everywhere I look at, people have different limits for NOx numbers, is it predetermined for each car specifically? Funny part is all I did this summer was get CAI, replaced cat with Magnaflow and flushed/changed coolant...

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1953/emissionsr.jpg



Wow, even after 35% thats a high accepted number of NOx comparing to what I had, I would have passed...

Are my NOx really high? Or did the local shop just ripped me off:bang:? And any suggestion to reduce the NOx?

Thanks in advance!

That may have been the 80 numbers for hotrod status that he posted. I know he tested under that but actually passed the 97 numbers too.

Steve

I just failed NOx on pretty much stock Z28:( everything else passed with flying numbers. Everywhere I look at, people have different limits for NOx numbers, is it predetermined for each car specifically? Funny part is all I did this summer was get CAI, replaced cat with Magnaflow and flushed/changed coolant...

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1953/emissionsr.jpg



Wow, even after 35% thats a high accepted number of NOx comparing to what I had, I would have passed...

Are my NOx really high? Or did the local shop just ripped me off:bang:? And any suggestion to reduce the NOx?

Thanks in advance!

When I received headers this summer that didn't have the EGR attachment, I asked my mechanic about removing the EGR system. He informed me that removing the EGR would substantially increase my NOx emissions. You can check that there are no leaks, kinks, breaks etc in your EGR system....

I'm kind of shocked that no code has shown up. Changing the cats would have an impact on the emissions too.

Running high octane gas will make it EASIER to pass the sniffer....NOT lower octane.

Thanks to all who replied to my post.

I never put anything lower than 91 into my car, and usually try to put 94 as much as I can.

Few things I forgot to mention is that my car has been known to get hot while idling, and I had no time to figure out what it is. I did the whole coolant drain/flush/fill and 160 tstat this summer hoping it would fix it, but it didnt. So I thought being hot would be a good thing for combustion efficiency, but then after some research today I found out that high temps can cause high NOx output. I had the heater on the lowest setting, keeping the temp at 3/4 or maybe a little above of the temp range.

Another thing is that the car has been sitting for maybe 10 days-2 weeks prior to test, I went for a quick drive before though, got on WOT couple of times too.

And lastly when doing coolant flush/drain I took out the block plug and knock sensor. I sort of eyeballed the knock sensor when putting it back in, when I heard it has to be torqued to specifications otherwise it would affect the timing?

Any further advice, suggestions would be of great help.

Thanks again.

NOX is a function of high combustion chamber temps. The EGR lowers this by injecting exhaust back into the intake stream. Exhaust gasses don't burn again. This can lower combustion chamber temps significantly and also curbs pre-detonation allowing higher timing during long cruise periods.

The only problem, combined with a shitty PCV system that spits oil into the intake, this pretty much cakes the intake tract.

Running the proper octane will help emissions. 91 or better, our compression needs it. Low octane forces the low octane table to be triggered due to detonation. The low octane table is a fail zone meaning its not optimized for efficiency rather for saving your engine. 94 does nothing for your emissions unless your car is tuned for it.

Your goal is either to lower combustion chamber temps. You can either make sure it doesn't overheat or get close to such a condition. 196F is basically the optimal temp for emissions with your coolant. You can fix the egr which would solve it all. If you lower your coolant temps, HC goes up. You have a good hc reading, so you have some leeway.

NOX is a function of high combustion chamber temps. The EGR lowers this by injecting exhaust back into the intake stream. Exhaust gasses don't burn again. This can lower combustion chamber temps significantly and also curbs pre-detonation allowing higher timing during long cruise periods.

The only problem, combined with a shitty PCV system that spits oil into the intake, this pretty much cakes the intake tract.

Running the proper octane will help emissions. 91 or better, our compression needs it. Low octane forces the low octane table to be triggered due to detonation. The low octane table is a fail zone meaning its not optimized for efficiency rather for saving your engine. 94 does nothing for your emissions unless your car is tuned for it.

Your goal is either to lower combustion chamber temps. You can either make sure it doesn't overheat or get close to such a condition. 196F is basically the optimal temp for emissions with your coolant. You can fix the egr which would solve it all. If you lower your coolant temps, HC goes up. You have a good hc reading, so you have some leeway.

Thanks, I am gonna give it another shot soon an try to do it when car is cooler.

Also I was thinking about seafoaming and then using that "Guaranteed to pass" additive from crappy tire, would that improve anything...?

If everything fails, I guess I'll try replacing EGR, found one shipped from US for 115$. Wonder what the labor would be... it must be a pita in that tight space.

Thanks, I am gonna give it another shot soon an try to do it when car is cooler.

Also I was thinking about seafoaming and then using that "Guaranteed to pass" additive from crappy tire, would that improve anything...?

If everything fails, I guess I'll try replacing EGR, found one shipped from US for 115$. Wonder what the labor would be... it must be a pita in that tight space.

don't some of the LS1 cars not have an EGR...what are they doing to keep those temps down (or what was done from the factory) maybe you can try something along those lines, block off your egr so that it doesnt leak (if it is leaking) but leave it in place so it will pass the inspection part...

don't some of the LS1 cars not have an EGR...what are they doing to keep those temps down (or what was done from the factory) maybe you can try something along those lines, block off your egr so that it doesnt leak (if it is leaking) but leave it in place so it will pass the inspection part...

If you look on SS7's E-test sheet he has a 94 which is an LT1. They are back pressure sensing EGR valves. Put all the vacuum to it you want without back pressure in the exhaust the valve will not open. I went through the same thing when my LT1 was just bolt on's.

If you look on SS7's E-test sheet he has a 94 which is an LT1. They are back pressure sensing EGR valves. Put all the vacuum to it you want without back pressure in the exhaust the valve will not open. I went through the same thing when my LT1 was just bolt on's.

I understand he has an LT1...Im saying what makes those LS1's that dont have an egr pass emissions...maybe he can adapt whatever was done from the factory to his car, if it means he'll have to spend less then $115...I know I have to look further into this, because the holden lower intake manifold that I bought, does not have a spot for the EGR valve anywhere...so unless I make a custom way of getting it in there, I wont have one...and my NO ppm numbers were about 4-5 off from not passing...I'll have an EGR valve in the car, and it will "look" like it is hooked up...but that will just be for the MOE guys...

I understand he has an LT1...Im saying what makes those LS1's that dont have an egr pass emissions...maybe he can adapt whatever was done from the factory to his car.

They changed the camshaft slightly and probably played with timing.

Just a thought - but do you have a 3-way cat on the car? Some of the aftermarket ones are only 2-way so they don't reduce NOX. Maybe if you put a 3-way cat on it, it would pass?

http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04emission.asp

Just something to think about :)

Mark

Just a thought - but do you have a 3-way cat on the car? Some of the aftermarket ones are only 2-way so they don't reduce NOX. Maybe if you put a 3-way cat on it, it would pass?

http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04emission.asp

Just something to think about :)

Mark


Took the words from my mouth Mark.

Running high octane gas will make it EASIER to pass the sniffer....NOT lower octane.

Are you 100% sure on that? Higher octane=slower burn?

Old mechanic I know puts alcohol in them and then runs them really hard to get them hot, says they pass 99% of the time.

I am so glad we dont have emissions here in florida !!! No cats FTW