Pontiac GTO 2004-2006 - GTO vs camaro ls1

I'm trying to find out as much as possible about the GTO ls1 as I just bought a 04 pull out. I know they look alot different. The camaro is rated at 310 and the GTO 350. Is this really a more powerful motor or are the camaros under rated? Any differences or specs would be great to know.

Im pretty sure it depends on the Year of the camaro bc the 98-99 has the ls1 intake and the 00(i think)-01 has the ls6 intake just like the 04 GTO. Never the less they were under rated at only 310. most stock ls1's are 340-350 hp. Most ls1 GTO's dyno around 290-310 rwhp meaning around 350-360 at the crank. The 04 GTO LS1 if im not mistaken..... has the LS6 block and LS6 Intake the only differeneces from the 405hp LS6 were the cam size and of course 243 casting heads with sodium valves

camaro is a lot lighter

It is the same motor as the 01-02 camaro 350-360

^^^^Yep, it's identical. GTO just got a truer rating.

Same engine as the 01-02 Fbodies, GTO have a better Trans gear ratio..... Its a drivers race between them stock vs. stock.........

so i thought camaro ss had 325hp stock? and some had 305???

so i thought camaro ss had 325hp stock? and some had 305???

SS was rated at 325 and Z28 rated at 305. Both made around 350. LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1.

SS was rated at 325 and Z28 rated at 305. Both made around 350. LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1.

oh ok yea that confused me lol

Right! ls1 is a ls1 but the years made them different, For example 98-00 fbody had different heads ,cam, 98-00 had i think 853 while 01-02 fbody's had 241 which made around 345 350 like the vette an gto.

Hope I helped.

The cam is better in the GTO motor and it came with true duals, thats where the horsepower increase comes from. Other then that they will transfer.

05-06 cam was better in the GTO ,It had the same cam from the 01 zo6.

04 Gto advantage was 241 heads, ls6 intake.

04 GTO had a better cam then other LS1's.... the horsepower increase did not come from the heads or ls6 manifold (seeing as the later camaros had those as well) it came from the better (albeit slightly) cam and the true dual exhaust from the factory. Also the 01-02 camaros have never been rated as high as the GTO was by GM.

04 GTO's also had a slightly less conservative tune then the camaro predecessors.

camaro is a lot lighter

+1 on that.

04 GTO had a better cam then other LS1's.... the horsepower increase did not come from the heads or ls6 manifold (seeing as the later camaros had those as well) it came from the better (albeit slightly) cam and the true dual exhaust from the factory. Also the 01-02 camaros have never been rated as high as the GTO was by GM.

04 GTO's also had a slightly less conservative tune then the camaro predecessors.The GTO had the EXACT same cam as the 01-02 F-Body. Cam doctor proved that almost 5 years ago when I pulled my 1500 mile stock cam out.

F-Body/GTO made the same power. Dyno will show that. It was a rating game that GM played, plain and simple.

Found the specs. Cam Doctor for the GTO vs GM specs for the F-Body:

197/209 .465"/.476" 116.5 LSA stock '04 GTO

197/207 .467"/.479" 116 LSA stock '01-'02 F-Body

Well within tolerance of each other.

Found the specs. Cam Doctor for the GTO vs GM specs for the F-Body:

197/209 .465"/.476" 116.5 LSA stock '04 GTO

197/207 .467"/.479" 116 LSA stock '01-'02 F-Body

Well within tolerance of each other.

I knew it .:google:

Ls2 did ,it had the 01 zo6 cam

Thats funny..... Quoted from multiple GM sources.... Including Bob Lutz...the GTO cam is different..

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4182.html

Just another source. You're wrong. Also part numbers are different if you look them on scoggin dicky, or any other mail order GM parts supplier and its not because they have anything crazy going on, it is just another LS1 camshaft, just slightly better.

ALSO from my own independent dynos....MY GTO pulled in the mid-high 320's consistently when it was stock and my 01 SS came out very slightly over 300 with an SLP lid and magnaflow catback. My GTO did seem to be a little bit of a factory freak but there are many MANY people with similiar experiences.

The later years of the SS could also come w/ 335 hp with an exhaust option.

Thats funny..... Quoted from multiple GM sources.... Including Bob Lutz...the GTO cam is different..

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4182.html

Just another source. You're wrong. Also part numbers are different if you look them on scoggin dicky, or any other mail order GM parts supplier and its not because they have anything crazy going on, it is just another LS1 camshaft, just slightly better.

ALSO from my own independent dynos....MY GTO pulled in the mid-high 320's consistently when it was stock and my 01 SS came out very slightly over 300 with an SLP lid and magnaflow catback. My GTO did seem to be a little bit of a factory freak but there are many MANY people with similiar experiences.It's called marketing. But you believe what ever makes you happy and I'll go by the facts of what came out of my car.

As far as your dyno numbers, congrats as you have the highest dyno numbers for a 04 GTO. My buddies that went 13.1 bone stock went 307/320. Right where it should have been. I didn't have mine done but it went 13.25.

Unless you ran in the 12's bone stock, your cam is the same as everybody else's GTO which was the same as the F-Body.

Rob what you ran in a 1/4 stock?

Rob what you ran in a 1/4 stock?The last pass I made when I was stock was the best. 13.25@105. Most were 13.3@104/105. Just got a better short time on the last run. Took me 4 trips to the track to figure out how to launch on the stock tires, which I thought was way too much. Very first pass in the car with 600 miles was a wheel hopping 13.6@103.

05-06?

In sig...2004 GTO

Sorry about that. Rob so what do the 6.0 do stock in a 1/4

Sorry about that. Rob so what do the 6.0 do stock in a 1/4

My best 2 stock times.

D/A of 200 100% stock and long cool down. Not sure where the 60ft came from. Never could duplicate it stock.
60ft 1.91
1/8th 8.38@84.91
1/4 13.04@106.18


D/A about 0 with a long cool down. Spare tire/jack and airfilter out. So not 100% stock.
1.992 60ft
8.41 1/8th
85.62 1/8th
13.002 1/4
107.99 1/4

Started modding after that. Didn't want to wait 8 months for a shot at mine shaft air at Richmond.

Marketing is not proven sources, lol. I gave sources. Hell even Ed Curtis said they were different.....hes the frickin ls1 cam guru.

I ran just about the same times you did stock, that doesn't mean anything as there is a lot of variance between drivers and tracks.

Marketing is not proven sources, lol. I gave sources. Hell even Ed Curtis said they were different.....hes the frickin ls1 cam guru.

I ran just about the same times you did stock, that doesn't mean anything as there is a lot of variance between drivers and tracks.All I can tell you that my car came with that cam. Mine was built in June 04. I posted the specs because everybody thought/didn't know what the true specs of the stock cam was. A Cam Doctor isn't going to lie, it is fact. As far as your "sources", even in that link it says the cams are the same. In fact, it was mainly because of that post that I had mine done because of all the conflicting info on the cam.

From '01 on, the LS1 had one cam. The F-Body, Vette, and GTO all got the same cam.

As far as Ed, where did he ever say they were different? I respect Ed. Have him post up what the stock specs were.

Marketing...it is what it is.

My best 2 stock times.

D/A of 200 100% stock and long cool down. Not sure where the 60ft came from. Never could duplicate it stock.
60ft 1.91
1/8th 8.38@84.91
1/4 13.04@106.18


D/A about 0 with a long cool down. Spare tire/jack and airfilter out. So not 100% stock.
1.992 60ft
8.41 1/8th
85.62 1/8th
13.002 1/4
107.99 1/4

Started modding after that. Didn't want to wait 8 months for a shot at mine shaft air at Richmond.
That's not bad at all,See my next car will be a GTO ,That's why i'm so interested.

That's not bad at all,See my next car will be a GTO ,That's why i'm so interested.

For a heavy car with an auto It ran fairly well I guess. Just too much money to run 10's N/A for me. I could never get over the 11.43 hump cam only:bang:. Had like 10 passes or more between 11.43-11.46

Nice cars, just not the best track car for your averge Joe like me. But they do make a nice daily driver.

the f-body is lighter and more aerodynamic soo idk it would be good

i have a ws6 now 99 ,but i'm bout to give up racing but I wanna stay in the ls family.
If I can get my 06 (which is what i'm gonna get) to run 12.80 dd i'm good with that.

For a heavy car with an auto It ran fairly well I guess. Just too much money to run 10's N/A for me. I could never get over the 11.43 hump cam only:bang:. Had like 10 passes or more between 11.43-11.46

Nice cars, just not the best track car for your averge Joe like me. But they do make a nice daily driver.

That's more than enough for me.That's like a over kill.lol

Found the specs. Cam Doctor for the GTO vs GM specs for the F-Body:

197/209 .465"/.476" 116.5 LSA stock '04 GTO

197/207 .467"/.479" 116 LSA stock '01-'02 F-Body

Well within tolerance of each other.

Rob you are flat wrong and uninformed.

The later years of the SS could also come w/ 335 hp with an exhaust option.

Another misinformation and wishful thinking. Maybe underrated and that is doubtful, but 325 from the factory is false.

Rob you are flat wrong and uninformed.Really? How so?

Let's see:

Take my 1500 mile cam to a shop
Let them put it on a Cam Doctor
Get the specs

How is that uninformed and flat wrong? You can't fake numbers on the Cam Doctor, it just spits out what it reads.

Another misinformation and wishful thinking. Maybe underrated and that is doubtful, but 325 from the factory is false.
the base z28 was 305hp for 98-00 310hp for 01-02
98-00 base ss was 320 with opt ex 327. 01-02 cars base was 325 with opt ex 335 and with the opt lid was 345hp from slp. and the cam for the 04 gto is the same. and the gto also has true dual ex for a power bump. the f body was under rated.

Corvette had that cam to.

The cam's are not the same...PERIOD

There was a 335hp package available for the SS... I know, I paid the extra for it on my '02 Hardtop SS

the corvette had the same cam only the 2000 vetts had the camaro cam in them. fyi. and show me where you got the cam specs from ever one i have ever place i have seen the cam spec for gto is the same as the vett and 01-02 f-body

Really? How so?

Let's see:

Take my 1500 mile cam to a shop
Let them put it on a Cam Doctor
Get the specs

How is that uninformed and flat wrong? You can't fake numbers on the Cam Doctor, it just spits out what it reads.

To be quite frank , I have seen more people state that they are the same Motor in both the Last Gen F1 and the '04 GTO, but I have not seen substatianted proof. The Cams are not the same nor are the HP ratings either. A lot of us like to think that way, but it is not true.

the base z28 was 305hp for 98-00 310hp for 01-02
98-00 base ss was 320 with opt ex 327. 01-02 cars base was 325 with opt ex 335 and with the opt lid was 345hp from slp. and the cam for the 04 gto is the same. and the gto also has true dual ex for a power bump. the f body was under rated.

Quick questions:
- What was the Difference between the Z28 and SS in all the years, what I mean is was it the Intake, Cams, etc?

- Was the SLP a factory car, from GM or a Tuner car from a 3rd Party Company, if it was a Tuner car, does it qualify as a legit production car like as SS that came direct from GM?

- Were both the XZ28s at 305HP also underrated? I mean what was the tru number and then the SS underrated what was the tru number?

- Slippery slope this underrtated thing we all love to talk about, wont you say?

To be quite frank , I have seen more people state that they are the same Motor in both the Last Gen F1 and the '04 GTO, but I have not seen substatianted proof. The Cams are not the same nor are the HP ratings either. A lot of us like to think that way, but it is not true.I don't get it. Handing MY cam out of MY GTO and having it read is not proof?

The HP ratings are just truer in the GTO. Even in 98 when it was only rated at 305, people were getting close to that at the rear wheels. The LS1 was under rated in the F-Body.

How is this still going on lol. An ls1 is a 350hp motor period. The camaro is lighter than the gto, and has the same power. In conclusion the camaro is a bit faster.

Case closed. How many threads are on here about the ls1 being underrated? lmao. An ls1, is an ls1 is an ls1.

How is this still going on lol. An ls1 is a 350hp motor period. The camaro is lighter than the gto, and has the same power. In conclusion the camaro is a bit faster.

Case closed. How many threads are on here about the ls1 being underrated? lmao. An ls1, is an ls1 is an ls1.

It is still going because you have an F Body LS1 and you like to think it is the same as the LS1 in a GTO. It is not sorry, no amount of underating insunuations will make them the same. This is not a discussion about faster, it is a facts discussion about the version of the LS1 Engine in both cars. I dont buy the underated argument nor do I buy the HP is the same because there I have not seen conclusive evidence (demonstrations) of each either claims, all I is comments on the issues.

I don't get it. Handing MY cam out of MY GTO and having it read is not proof?

The HP ratings are just truer in the GTO. Even in 98 when it was only rated at 305, people were getting close to that at the rear wheels. The LS1 was under rated in the F-Body.


No offense my friend. Cam Pro Plus tests reveal that they are not the same cams in both motors. http://www.audietech.com/cam-pro-plus/cam-pro-plus.html

The profiles from their testing indicate that they are different profiles in the cams.

ls1 02 year , 241 heads ls6 intake right! 345hp
ls1 04 year, 241 heads ls6 intake right! 350hp

It is still going because you have an F Body LS1 and you like to think it is the same as the LS1 in a GTO. It is not sorry, no amount of underating insunuations will make them the same. This is not a discussion about faster, it is a facts discussion about the version of the LS1 Engine in both cars. I dont buy the underated argument nor do I buy the HP is the same because there I have not seen conclusive evidence (demonstrations) of each either claims, all I is comments on the issues.

They both dyno right around 300-310wrh. So id say the both make 350.

ls1 02 year , 241 heads ls6 intake right! 345hp
ls1 - - single exhaust, milder cam, less agressive tune
04 year, 241 heads ls6 intake right! 350hp, true dual exhaust, slightly more agressive cam, better factory tune.



Fixed it for you.

No offense my friend. Cam Pro Plus tests reveal that they are not the same cams in both motors. http://www.audietech.com/cam-pro-plus/cam-pro-plus.html

The profiles from their testing indicate that they are different profiles in the cams.Where is this proof?

The cams are definitely different from 98-00 than 01-04.

I have my printout, where is yours?

Fixed it for you.Still wrong, so you didn't fix it.

What makes the GTO tune better?

Rob's right. '01-up LS1 cams are all the same, and if I'm not mistaken, its the same LQ9 truck cam.

Still wrong, so you didn't fix it.

What makes the GTO tune better?

It has a more agressive spark advance table. (this is proven through many a data logs through HP tuners)

The factory tune in both vehicles is pretty weak, but the GTO's does have a slightly more agressive one.

You're wrong. If you own/ owned both of these vehicles and did a bit of research you'd understand there are a lot of minor differences. While nothing is like OMG significant there are little differences.

http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/0306pon_2004_pontiac_gto_auto_show_car/index.html

If you look it up on any parts database the cam is a different number. Because its a slightly different cam.

It has a more agressive spark advance table. (this is proven through many a data logs through HP tuners)

The factory tune in both vehicles is pretty weak, but the GTO's does have a slightly more agressive one.

You're wrong. If you own/ owned both of these vehicles and did a bit of research you'd understand there are a lot of minor differences. While nothing is like OMG significant there are little differences.IIRC, comparing the two files, the F-Body has a more aggressive spark table. You don't need a data log to see that. I can post up both but can't from work as they are at home.

http://www.smokemup.com/tech/ls1.php

http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/features/0306pon_2004_pontiac_gto_auto_show_car/index.html

If you look it up on any parts database the cam is a different number. Because its a slightly different cam.The HPP article came out before the car was even brought over. There was a lot of misinformation in that article. This was mainly a pre-production story. The smokemup page is also old. Doesn't show anything.

Having multiple part numbers for the same part has been a problem with GM from decades ago. Same cam in the F-Body was the same cam in the 'Vette was the same cam as the GTO. One cam from '01-'04.

Well, the spark table advance issue....thats been proven by multiple tuners to be more agressive in the GTO, I have data logs from both as I currently own an 01 SS and an 04 GTO. I was just giving some MORE sources, I know the smokemup page doesn't have the GTO listed but it shows multiple cam profiles which you can them compare to GM's own listing of the GTO camshaft which shows it is slightly more agressive. I'm not saying night and day here....its just not the EXACT same part.

Where is this proof?

The cams are definitely different from 98-00 than 01-04.

I have my printout, where is yours?

Wht print out do you need? The Cams are different on the Last Gen F Body and the '04 GTO (LS1). Thanks.

Wht print out do you need? The Cams are different on the Last Gen F Body and the '04 GTO (LS1). Thanks.The printout that is generated when the cam is getting read. As in proof that they are different. You do know that '01 and '02 was part of the last gen F-Body?

If these cams are different, why can't anybody show proof? I have done it and know they are the same.

Not sure why you guys care if the cam from a LS1 GTO is bigger,smaller or the same as a LS1 F-body cam?:confused:

The printout that is generated when the cam is getting read. As in proof that they are different. You do know that '01 and '02 was part of the last gen F-Body?

If these cams are different, why can't anybody show proof? I have done it and know they are the same.

Sorry Rob, the proof is the other way around.I have 2 issues, the factory specs from GM say they are different, you state that they are the same, if you ask me to prove it, I say follow what GM says, if you disagree with GM, you have to prove it. Follow me?

My position
(1) I disagree the cam profiles between any F-Body LS1 (Camaro/Firebird) is the same as the 2004 GTO
(2) I disagree that the LS1 in the LS1 F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) is exactly the same as the 2004 GTO.

Logically, based on my position on the first issue, my position in the second issue is deducted.

Opinion - Most F Body and some GTO owners like to think they are one and the same. They are not, and that is a fact. I am not interested in the underrated / overrated arguments because the it cuts both ways and the actual value one way or another is not agreed to by those who say it is.

Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the performance or either car, this has only to do with facts. Thanks.

Finally, I appreciate that it has been a civil discussion so far where we have expressed views, opinions, and facts with no curse words or slurs.

Not sure why you guys care if the cam from a LS1 GTO is bigger,smaller or the same as a LS1 F-body cam?:confused:

Why do I care, because facts are facts, and should not be debated once established. Again not a performance issue, but a factoid!

so its not a ls1 in a 04 gto it's a ls we don't know. lol

so its not a ls1 in a 04 gto it's a ls we don't know. lol

No it is an LS1 with 241 heads, ls6 intake, slightly better cam, slightly more agressive tune, and true dual exhaust.

The printout that is generated when the cam is getting read. As in proof that they are different. You do know that '01 and '02 was part of the last gen F-Body?

If these cams are different, why can't anybody show proof? I have done it and know they are the same.

I have shown you multiple sources and multiple reputable sources and multiple GM sources.....

Sorry Rob, the proof is the other way around.I have 2 issues, the factory specs from GM say they are different, you state that they are the same, if you ask me to prove it, I say follow what GM says, if you disagree with GM, you have to prove it. Follow me?

My position
(1) I disagree the cam profiles between any F-Body LS1 (Camaro/Firebird) is the same as the 2004 GTO
(2) I disagree that the LS1 in the LS1 F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) is exactly the same as the 2004 GTO.

Logically, based on my position on the first issue, my position in the second issue is deducted.

Opinion - Most F Body and some GTO owners like to think they are one and the same. They are not, and that is a fact. I am not interested in the underrated / overrated arguments because the it cuts both ways and the actual value one way or another is not agreed to by those who say it is.

Keep in mind this has nothing to do with the performance or either car, this has only to do with facts. Thanks.

Finally, I appreciate that it has been a civil discussion so far where we have expressed views, opinions, and facts with no curse words or slurs.

I have shown you multiple sources and multiple reputable sources and multiple GM sources.....
There is the problem with your statements, they are based off what was printed. Mainly before the car was even offered over here. There were supposed to lots of changes made to the car that weren't done because funding was not there.

Here is FACT that neither one of you want to believe:

The cam that came out of MY 2004 GTO had the same cam that the F-Body had. There is no dispute to that. I handed the cam over, he read, spit out the results, and I went on my way. How is it my cam is the same as the F-Body and everybody else's GTO cam is different?

That is the only source I need because that is a fact. I don't need to read about sources from 2002 saying the cam is different when in fact, its the same cam.

Thank you.

I have shown you multiple sources and multiple reputable sources and multiple GM sources.....

Wasn't GM the one to rate the fbody at 305 and 320 hp when it put those numbers out at the wheels? Not very reputable if you ask me.

Quick questions:
- What was the Difference between the Z28 and SS in all the years, what I mean is was it the Intake, Cams, etc?

- Was the SLP a factory car, from GM or a Tuner car from a 3rd Party Company, if it was a Tuner car, does it qualify as a legit production car like as SS that came direct from GM?

- Were both the XZ28s at 305HP also underrated? I mean what was the tru number and then the SS underrated what was the tru number?

- Slippery slope this underrtated thing we all love to talk about, wont you say?

1 the motor was the same the diff in power was from the cat back and cold air from the hood.
2 it is a factory car done for gm by a 3rd party "slp"
3The numbers for both the z28 and ss on a dyno are the same. it was more marketing for gm a z28 is just as fast as a ss. in the 1/4 mile now handleing is a diff store ss has better tires and suspension.

Whats funny is a z28 was rated at 305 hp and when put on a dyno it pullys that to the rear wheels they wher just as power full as the vett's and gm didnt want that out. stock vs stock vett vs f-body at the rear wheels the f body dyno high becase of drive tran.

Whats funny is a z28 was rated at 305 hp and when put on a dyno it pullys that to the rear wheels they wher just as power full as the vett's and gm didnt want that out. stock vs stock vett vs f-body at the rear wheels the f body dyno high becase of drive tran.

Now this is so true I read this They didn't what the vette sales to go down.

1 the motor was the same the diff in power was from the cat back and cold air from the hood.
2 it is a factory car done for gm by a 3rd party "slp"
3The numbers for both the z28 and ss on a dyno are the same. it was more marketing for gm a z28 is just as fast as a ss. in the 1/4 mile now handleing is a diff store ss has better tires and suspension.

Boy, then it appears to me that GM really wanted to kill the Z28, undermining so much in comparison to the SS and the Vette.

Who cares what cam the SOB's came with. 98% of us take that crap out and put something else in.

Who cares what cam the SOB's came with. 98% of us take that crap out and put something else in.

+1000 on that.