Tools & Fabrication - miller syncrowave 180sd- should i buy if i want to get into tig?

hey guys- looking at potentially getting a TIG setup to learn and do some things with aluminum, stainless, etc. I currently have a lincoln weldpack 100 that I've used over the years, but never really happy with. In hindsight, I bought it without research, but it was only 300 new back then.

Looking at some of the used TIG setups, looks like I can pickup one of these Miller 180SD machines for less than 1k. Is that a decent price? Any other recommendations for a tig setup new/used in the 1000-1500 range? thoughts?

hey guys- looking at potentially getting a TIG setup to learn and do some things with aluminum, stainless, etc. I currently have a lincoln weldpack 100 that I've used over the years, but never really happy with. In hindsight, I bought it without research, but it was only 300 new back then.

Looking at some of the used TIG setups, looks like I can pickup one of these Miller 180SD machines for less than 1k. Is that a decent price? Any other recommendations for a tig setup new/used in the 1000-1500 range? thoughts?

The 180 takes a huge amount of amps to run. You'll most likely need a 60 amp breaker. This is assuming your using it at home and it is the 230v unit.

I've been doing a lot of shopping for a tig lately, so I'll just relay what I've found.

The 180SD is a decent machine, but some guys "outgrow" them pretty quickly. 1/4" aluminum is really pushing it. It's also heavy, being a transformer based machine. But it's solid. As long as it's under $1k, it's a fair price. The Syncrowave 200 is starting to appear in the low-$1k range these days. No way would I pay more than $1000 for a 180SD. Go in to it as long as you're happy with 3/16" aluminum and below, and you'll be fine. :thumb:

Brand new you can get the Miller Diversion 165, which is an inverter machine, for ~$1250 shipped to your door from any number of internet vendors. Controls on it are pretty basic, but the people that have them seem to like them. It's got about the same capacity as the 180SD, but weighs less and consumes less power. Transformer machines require more current (I'd bet 40-50A for the 180SD), inverter machines are much more efficient (23 amps for the Diversion).

Skip the Econotig. Rarely see love for those machines, there's a reason a lot of them are for sale. ;) Heavy and underpowered (from what I've read).

You could go Chinese - I almost bought an Everlast 250EX (would have, if it were in stock). It's got a lot of nice features. http://www.everlastgenerators.com

I ended up buying an HTP Invertig 201. It'll be here tomorrow. :) Very nice looking machine, and HTP seems to be a great company to buy from. http://www.usaweld.com

I've been doing a lot of shopping for a tig lately, so I'll just relay what I've found.

The 180SD is a decent machine, but some guys "outgrow" them pretty quickly. 1/4" aluminum is really pushing it. It's also heavy, being a transformer based machine. But it's solid. As long as it's under $1k, it's a fair price. The Syncrowave 200 is starting to appear in the low-$1k range these days. No way would I pay more than $1000 for a 180SD. Go in to it as long as you're happy with 3/16" aluminum and below, and you'll be fine. :thumb:

Brand new you can get the Miller Diversion 165, which is an inverter machine, for ~$1250 shipped to your door from any number of internet vendors. Controls on it are pretty basic, but the people that have them seem to like them. It's got about the same capacity as the 180SD, but weighs less and consumes less power. Transformer machines require more current (I'd bet 40-50A for the 180SD), inverter machines are much more efficient (23 amps for the Diversion).

Skip the Econotig. Rarely see love for those machines, there's a reason a lot of them are for sale. ;) Heavy and underpowered (from what I've read).

You could go Chinese - I almost bought an Everlast 250EX (would have, if it were in stock). It's got a lot of nice features. http://www.everlastgenerators.com

I ended up buying an HTP Invertig 201. It'll be here tomorrow. :) Very nice looking machine, and HTP seems to be a great company to buy from. http://www.usaweld.com

The diversion is an OK hobbist machine, it is simple, light, easy to get used to, but dont expect to weld 1/4" aluminum on it.

The 180 is a little bit underpowerd for what it consumes, and is a transformer machine.

I like both, but after I bought my dynasty I havent turned on my syncrowave 250 even once. The arc is simply amazing on an inverter, plain and simple. And on the dynasty, it is so adjustable on aluminum its not even funny.... The diversion isnt, but it still has a nice arc.

Basically, I like the diversion over the 180...

The 180 takes a huge amount of amps to run. You'll most likely need a 60 amp breaker. This is assuming your using it at home and it is the 230v unit.

Good point! I didn't realize it was that high. I have no problem with 230v in the garage, going to be wiring it this winter, but 60amps is too much. I plan on having total 60amp service in the garage, and that's to run a compressor and the tig setup.

I've been doing a lot of shopping for a tig lately, so I'll just relay what I've found.

The 180SD is a decent machine, but some guys "outgrow" them pretty quickly. 1/4" aluminum is really pushing it. It's also heavy, being a transformer based machine. But it's solid. As long as it's under $1k, it's a fair price. The Syncrowave 200 is starting to appear in the low-$1k range these days. No way would I pay more than $1000 for a 180SD. Go in to it as long as you're happy with 3/16" aluminum and below, and you'll be fine. :thumb:

Brand new you can get the Miller Diversion 165, which is an inverter machine, for ~$1250 shipped to your door from any number of internet vendors. Controls on it are pretty basic, but the people that have them seem to like them. It's got about the same capacity as the 180SD, but weighs less and consumes less power. Transformer machines require more current (I'd bet 40-50A for the 180SD), inverter machines are much more efficient (23 amps for the Diversion).

Skip the Econotig. Rarely see love for those machines, there's a reason a lot of them are for sale. ;) Heavy and underpowered (from what I've read).

You could go Chinese - I almost bought an Everlast 250EX (would have, if it were in stock). It's got a lot of nice features. http://www.everlastgenerators.com

I ended up buying an HTP Invertig 201. It'll be here tomorrow. :) Very nice looking machine, and HTP seems to be a great company to buy from. http://www.usaweld.com

At 150 Amps AC tig, this machine will draw 54 amps. A person will need to make sure they have the ability to use this machine or else suffer laying a 4" bead and then pop a breaker.

If a person wants to do it right, the dynasty 200 is an amazing machine for it size and would run circles around the syncrowave 180 and 200. Even the dynasty 200 sd with out the pulse controls is better.

The diversion seems to be a little limited in its torch and could be expensive to replace. I am not a fan of roller switches, though on aluminum are useful. The switch is built into the torch.

I ended up buying an HTP Invertig 201. It'll be here tomorrow. :) Very nice looking machine, and HTP seems to be a great company to buy from. http://www.usaweld.com

Looks like USA Weld is in my backyard, Arlington Heights. I should take a ride over there next weekend. That machine is 2400, little too much for the budget. I figured I'd get something in the 1000-1500 range to support the hobby :-)

Another decent place is www.cyberweld.com .This is where I purchased my Miller 211. No complaints, fast and free shipping as well.

cyberweld is awesome. i bought my oxy-actylene torch, actylene rig and miller 135 from them. fast shipping and great prices. cant be beat IMO

Ive got a dynasty 200 dx and I wouldnt think of buying anything diffrent......Maybe a bigger one

i have a miller 180 sd for a few years now and i like it alot....but i have never used a dynasty.....my miller has always done about anything i wanted it too...but if you get it i would highly suggest getting a water cooled torch setup for it.....i made my own with making a stainless water tank,a sump pump,and a used torch from a friend.....works great...

I have a 180 SD. I like it and have never had any issues with it. I doubt there is much automotive welding you couldn't do with it. If you really needed to tig 1/4 inch aluminun, you can run 100% Helium to get it a bit hotter. Of course, if you have the means, go for the Dynasty. Otherwise spend 1G on the used 180 and get a good mig for the money you saved.

Ryph

I used to use a snycrowave 351 at work, That thing was a Beast :D It ran off 3 phase 440V.

I don't know everything that you'll be welding but If I were you I'd look into buying a used Syncro 250 or larger or equivalent Lincoln , L Tec , or Esab . I know a bigger machine can have some serious amp draw but you're not going to run the compressor & weld @ the same time . I've seen some nice setups with a cooler for 1200 . The bigger TIG machines usually come with pulse , you won't need a sequencer but AC balance is nice . Later on if you want to sell it you should recoup most of the cost . What will the 180SD be worth in a year ? Most people end up wanting more power not many want less . It'll be heavy so put it on wheels . The Dynasty is awesome , we have 2 350's and they're just bad ass . The AC side can be focused so well you have to see it .

FWIW, I've been welding with my Invertig since last week, and I'm loving it. Tig is great. So clean. It's a lot slower than my mig, but the process and results are much cleaner.

I've never tig'd before, took me a few evenings to get the hang of it, but now I'm up and running.

I don't know everything that you'll be welding but If I were you I'd look into buying a used Syncro 250 or larger or equivalent Lincoln , L Tec , or Esab . I know a bigger machine can have some serious amp draw but you're not going to run the compressor & weld @ the same time ..

I really plan on doing smaller welding jobs, like exhaust, or roll bar, roll cage type stuff and sub frame connectors around the car. That's my use case. For guys that weld all the time, I get it, buy the best you can, because you need the utility and flexibility. But if my requirements are exhaust/thin steel/roll cages/tubing/subframes, etc... (and low amp draw) what are your thoughts?

I still prefer the industrial machines , they have better low end as well . I know they're a bit much in a garage setting but a Syncro 250 isn't much bigger or heavier than a 180SD or Syncro 200 . I'm always trying to maximize my buys , and if I get a lot more for a little more money I've done well . An inverter machine would be perfect for you but they're expensive . Have you atleast gone and tried to lay down some beads ? Get a little experience so when you go to look @ a machine you understand what you're looking for and what your looking @ and if it'll suit your needs . If it were my dime , I'd be looking for a used Syncro 250 or Lincoln Precision TIG 250 . Then if you decide you want more or don't want it you'll get most of your money back . You'll want a cooler but if it doesn't have one they're easy to make .

I have the 180SD and love it, plus you can stick weld with it, so that's one less piece of equipment in your way. Try doing that with your Miller Diversion 165. Plus the Miller Diversion 165, has half the duty cycle of a 180SD, as would most non-transformer based welders. You have to give up something to gain something else. One of my buddies has the Miller Diversion 165 and loves it, so its all in what you plans are.

The other thing to remember is the bigger the machine, the bigger the torch, so if you over buy on the machine size, it will not let you get in those tight corners on the smaller jobs

I have the 180SD and love it, plus you can stick weld with it, so that's one less piece of equipment in your way. Try doing that with your Miller Diversion 165. Plus the Miller Diversion 165, has half the duty cycle of a 180SD, as would most non-transformer based welders. You have to give up something to gain something else. One of my buddies has the Miller Diversion 165 and loves it, so its all in what you plans are.

The other thing to remember is the bigger the machine, the bigger the torch, so if you over buy on the machine size, it will not let you get in those tight corners on the smaller jobs


The upper end dynasty's 200, 350, old 300, 700, all have better duty cycles then their transformer based counterparts, they are more efficient, and draw alot less power.... diversion is the exception.

the more i read and research, the more it seems a 250 type machine is the right investment for long term needs/ flexibility. that obviously blows my budget of $1500 now, which for a hobby (not a living) is really too much cash... Do I have any other options, or just bite the bullet and get one :-)

You can use whatever torch you want , most use a 20 . Pretty much every TIG machine can be used for stick , they're both Constant Current . If that's what you have to spend either look for a deal on a used on or save up . I've seen plenty with a cooler , torch , pedal , & on a cart for what you're willing to spend . Just make sure to check out a used machine before you buy .

How close is this to you ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESAB-HELIARC-WELDER-252-AC-DC-TIG-COMPLETE-PKG-NR_W0QQitemZ230390527443QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item35a45875d3

that's in Indy, about 5 hours away...

If you can do without the ability to weld aluminum, I would go with a Miller 150STL (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/maxstar_150_stl/). It has the power to do what you listed in post #16, and is in your price range brand new. Why everybody is emphasizing more power is only for aluminum. My Dynasty 200 is on the verge of being inadequate, but I don't want anything bigger for portability. That's what I like about the 150, it will almost fit in your pocket.

If you're good you can weld aluminum with DC , you just have to make sure it's clean .

If you can do without the ability to weld aluminum, I would go with a Miller 150STL (http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/maxstar_150_stl/). It has the power to do what you listed in post #16, and is in your price range brand new. Why everybody is emphasizing more power is only for aluminum. My Dynasty 200 is on the verge of being inadequate, but I don't want anything bigger for portability. That's what I like about the 150, it will almost fit in your pocket.

A dynasty welds hotter then any transformer I have ever used..... did you mess wth the hz at all? I mean, that little thing has easily more oomph then my PT 225 ever had, and feels closer to what my syncro 250 had @250 amps.... I still cant believe how much powr a sync 250 draws, especially with a water cooler.....

Same here for the dynasty. I'm spoiled at work. We have 2 Dynasty 300DX and one Synchrowave 350 plus two 450A Migs. The dynasty will bury the synchrowave. I welded 1/2" aluminum plate last week and the Dynasty laugh at it. It probably helps that they are on 3 phase 440V.

Once you play with an inverter machine you never go back.

One problem though: they are expensive beasts.