GM Performance Parts LSX Shootout - observation of the LSX shootout

I finally drug myself out of the shop this year to make it to the Shootout,to say the least i was highly disappointed.I want to thank NMCA for helping to make this happen and giving the lsx guys a place to race and everybody who made this deal happen-without you guys there would be nothing.

But,i feel it's time to take the deal to the next level.The LSX community wants and needs it's own event,separate from the NMCA event.While the NMCA def has a good handle on the world of doorslammer drag racing,i don't think it really has it's finger on the "pulse" of the LSx community.

Being that this is a once a year race,most racers aren't going to build cars to only fit this one race-they need as much return on investment as possible.Because of this we really need to looks at the rules that are closer to that of most other sanctioning bodies.This will allow for a much higher car count in the heads up classes.We also need to look at more heads up classes as well as breaking up the bracket racing more.This will allow for more cars to feel they "fit" in.

I would also see more LSX vendors step up and help out,sponsor the event.I know all of this cost money and takes time-but if we can work together toward a common goal-it's very possible.Currently the lsx platform is the fastest growing in automotive performance.

I am going to do everthing i can to make this a better show for next year.I would appreciate any help i can get and def would like to hear from current sponsors and organizers of the shootout.

I would also like to hear CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to make it better.so for anybody that has any of those ideas please post them here.

Thanks for reading.

Shawn Miller
General Manager
Virginia Speed Inc.

I was thinking a lot of similiar things on my 16 hr drive home. 2 heads up classes isn't cutting it. I left this event feeling dissapointed as well. I have been to all three shootouts and when I drove out of MMP last night I wasn't saying to myself... I can't wait for next year. Judging from the car count in the LSX rumble the NMCA could have a class for this at every NMCA event. I guess it would depend if GMPP would be willing to put up some sponsorship money. Then again, all LSX cars/trucks already fit into the LM EFI class and the class isn't very well supported.

For my own selfish reasons I would love to see a cam only heads up class.

It would be cool to do an independent LSX event but it was tried before and unfortunately didn't pan out. GMPP probably doesn't want to cut ties with the NMCA either so getting them on board isn't likely to happen.

I agree. I was so excited to go(this being the first year I was able)I was disappointed! To many none LSX cars. I will not return.

Man I totally agree. I had a blast at the shootoout and apperciated meeting alot of guys here on tech. But I was there for thurs,fri and sat.and sun. There was just to much other NMCA things going on. I was at the track for 14 hrs sat and made 3 passes I was afraid to leave thinking I would miss my chance to make a pass. And on sunday I got there at 8 am for first round of the rumble and didnt make another till 6:30 pm.I live 7 hrs away and had to be at work monday am there was no way if I moved on i cold have stayed.I saw alot of guys that did make the index leave to go home. We do need our own event and make it a 3 day and have eliminations on sunday and everyone out by 3 to make it home.
I would like to see some nitrous classes for the average guy here on tech.

I know it's the LSx shootout but make it a GMPP shootout and invite LTx cars (we have several 8 second nitrous/turbo cars that run hard) One way to increase car count is to not limit it to JUST LS platforms... I mean late model is late model right???? Have a GM Fuel Injected shootout..... The LS cars have kept their noses turned up to us since the event started cause our engines aren't as new even though they are far from carb'd dinosaurs...

I like the idea of having the ltx/lsx shootout together at kcir where the ltx deal is now.

That way it helps both groups.

Man I wish.

I got a bunch of interesting calls and texts today, folks asked me when Tony and I would help create or get involved in an LSX only event with major input from the racers as to what they want. Interesting conversations for sure.

All it takes is time and $$ John :)

Shawn im going with ya next yr.....

I fell bad for the people that were still in the race as of Sunday, that had to be back home or work by Monday with a chance of winning, and lost their entire entry fee completely. My upmost respect to them.

I like the idea of having the ltx/lsx shootout together at kcir where the ltx deal is now.

That way it helps both groups.

Oh snap! count me in! haha we'll bring 5 Cars to that! (3LSx/2LT1's)!

talk to Tony Shepherd and ask him about KCIR. Find out if GMPP would be willing to do a seperate event combined with LT1's.....

First and foremost, I would like to thank the NMCA for their continued support. Unfortunately though, when taking on the responsibility for putting on an event like this, youre also the target for criticism when things dont go as planned.

I understand that wrecks, and oil-downs are part of racing, and there is nothing the track, or sanctioning body can do about that. But there comes a time when you have to sit back, and realize you just have too much stuff going on in one weekend. Dont send all your True Street guys on a 30 mile cruise, and then park then in front of the stands for hours, upon hours before they make their first pass. The schedules were useless all weekend, because the entire event was behind schedule from the begining. The NMCA events are awesome because of the kickass, heads-up racing! No offense, but no one cars about watching 700 dirty old bracket cars dump junk all over the track! Narrows the classes down to the heads up, and index guys only!

The problem with having our own separate event would be funding. The event would need some big sponsors in from the begining to secure the track, dates, and payouts. If that was able to take place, an event like this would have a chance. Maybe an old school LSX North VS South Shootout!

Have an all out Outlaw Drag Radial class. Similar rules to this years drag radial, only alow 315/60's so everyone doesnt have to buy new tires. Stock suspension LSX, and unlimited power adders.

Outlaw Street - 275 Radial or 28x10.50MAX. Stock suspension, unlimited power adders.

All Motor.. Index Racing, and True Street!

I got a bunch of interesting calls and texts today, folks asked me when Tony and I would help create or get involved in an LSX only event with major input from the racers as to what they want. Interesting conversations for sure.

John, I was going to go this year, like last year, just as a spectator, but, I was last week (still am), and had family stuff going on to. So, I putz'd out and did not go.

However, I have brought this up before: For those of us wanting a separate event (like me), we need to put our money where our mouths are and be willing to do something like prepay. If the event goes on at its scheduled time and you don't show, tough...money goes to prize money and event expenses. If the event is cancelled due to low number of committed racers / spectators, then, those of us paying, of course, would get a full refund.

A big sincere "thanks" out to those that worked towards the event this year as well as to those that spent time and money racing and / or watching it. Take care. Dave

All I'm going to say is that the junior dragsters and bracket racing definitely does not belong at this event.

I can live with the NMCA stuff.

I've been to both this year and last year. I've made the 11+ hour drive from North Carolina just to see the LSx cars. I haven't been able to bring a car either year simply because it's not been running at the time.

I was much more satisfied last year simply because it appeared that the NMCA actually tried to incorporate the LSx guys and I actually to got to see some nice cars from every class. This year I was completely dissatisfied with how everything went down. I understand that stuff happens and that oil downs and breakage and accidents happen. It just appeared this year that the NMCA didn't even care that the LSx guys were even there. I watched from the stands Saturday as the True Street cars sat there for something like 6+ hours waiting to run. I also noticed that on Sunday I watched the LSx drag radial and all-motor class make one group of passes while it seemed like every NMCA class made multiple passes. I think even the extreme street class made it to the finals.

I don't know if I missed some things or not(I did get to the track a little late saturday and sunday), but I don't remember a single LSx car breaking or spilling oil while making a pass. Saturday night, I watched an NMCA class with mostly Nitrous cars have 6 different cars with backfires. When does it become apparent that you should allow the groups of cars that aren't breaking to make their runs?

I'm sorry if I made a really long rant, but after just getting home after a disappointing weekend I thought I should at least say something. I personally would love to return next year and see the same great event. I would love even more to see an all late-model event.

I like the idea of having the ltx/lsx shootout together at kcir where the ltx deal is now.

That way it helps both groups.

i love this idea

im royally pissed.. the past 2 years it felt like we were a part of the event.. but we had low priority. this year, it felt like everyone there hated us. 8 hours on sunday between first and second round of eliminations? unacceptable. i know they wanted us just out of there, because me, along with about 30 other cars got completely screwed on "deep" staging. all of the red lights were not just chance, everyone who had deep on their car, or tried to go deep just got completely f"ed over. im glad that i spent $80, and courtesy staged, just so that i could drive another 8 hours back home. setting of a tree when someone clearly has "DEEP" on 4 freaking windows of a car is completely not cool. while i have not participated in drag racing that long (5 years or so) i know that it is completely wrong to do that to someone. not everyone can have a stick car with a 2 step and line lock, or a trans brake and everyone with a foot brake car only stands a chance in bracket if they can go deep. i told my friend who is a hardcore bracket racer about this and he agrees that it was total bs and unprofessional. i do not blame that part on the nmca, but on memphis track operators being unprofessional. there are so many issues that i have with this year that its not even funny. but here are the main ones

#1 nmca treating us like a cash cow, taking our money and then treating us like an inconvenience

#2 everyone who wanted to stage deep getting screwed over

#3 stickers on the paint of the car, why cant they be on the glass? i was told that i could either put the sticker on my car or the class wouldnt exist, and thats total bs.

#4 and the biggest is the amount of waiting time that was experienced, and the lack of an even attempt at a schedule. we ran 120 true street cars through in roughly the same time it took for them to run 8 cars. i also felt very unsafe with cars going 130mph hitting the wall 10 feet away from me. it just kills me that we were getting yelled at to "stay behind the cars!!" if its that dangerous, we didnt need to be there for 6 straight hours.


basically there is a lot of work that needs to be done, i would like to help, and i would like to continue to support this event (as i have been to all 3), but something needs to change.. otherwise this event wont last long and there will be less than 4 all motor cars and 8 drag radial cars that show up.. imo thats not a very good representation of the people who are involved in the LSx motors.

i dont see why there should be an issue with getting a track day for yourselfs. hell us LTX guys have done that the past to years for our shootout.

My vote is for a combined shootout LSX/LTX with GMPP coverage, seperate classes until the finals and keep it at memphis.

You would think after 3 years it would go off with out a problem. I heard year2 was not bad but year 1 and 3 were too long of a wait with LSX cars being put on back burner. I have wanted to make the 18 hour drive from Ontario Canada, but to wait around for 6-8 hours between races is crazy. I am hoping to have a car for next year, maybe they can move the event closer.

I will say that I am glad that this shootout does exist, and I hope it has future secess and for people to continue to support it even if some years are worse than others.

First of all i want to say that the main reason i am there every year is to see the lsx stuff.that being said i think some of you are bitching way too much about there being alot of non lsx stuff.you have to remember that the shootout is being held in conjunction with the nmca WORLD FINALS.the bracket cars do bore the hell out of me but i love watching the nmca heads up classes.but i do agree that maybe next year the nmca not do both together.i think its too much for them to handle.it would be cool to see the lsx/ltx thing happen as mentioned

Having a 5k dollar to win bracket race during a NMCA event and a LSx shoot out is pure stupid. thats the first thing that needs to change next year. Those guys have been racing at the track all year, give them a separate date to finish their points season.

I stayed to monday(thankfully I dont have to work till wed) but I put myself out in 3rd round. I was there from Thursday till Monday and didnt get anything in return. hell there were only 16 car that showed up on moday, and they wouldn't even pay out cause there were 19 entries left, but 3 didnt show up.

I felt as if we were in the way this year, and I feel the bracket program f'ed everything up. Not that I am against bracket racing, but not at a NMCA/LSx event...

I was able to meet a lot more people this year and enjoyed meeting everyone.

I have to agree with many of the comments here about the LSX Shootout. I think that at this point the LSX Shootout has grown to where it needs it’s own stand alone event. I think while many classes are still evolving we have developed a solid base with the Drag Radial and All Motor Classes. Now we can work on some special classes such as a Nitrous eliminator.

In my opinion the NMCA has a formula for their “show”. That includes Jet Cars and ADRL Pro Mods making test passes. I think that a good majority of the people in the stands are there to see the LSX cars battle it out on the same piece of real estate.

I know that the GM Performance Parts Team was very concerned about the LSX racers getting the respect that they deserve.

I want to thank Scoggin Dicky Parts Center for their continued support. Also I want to thank all the LSX associated vendors for their support.

There are a ton of racers who make up the fabric of the LSX racing
community. I am blown away at the intensity of the LSX racers at the event.

I would like to also see constructive ideas for a stand alone event. Of course it will need to be centrally located to make travel equally brutal on everyone. :bang:

Thanks

Robin Lawrence

After all the controversy over rules, and desired rule changes, and most of that appearing to fall on deaf ears in my opinion. Add low attendance this year, and a horrible job running the LSX portion of the event. We need change....
Do we really need GMPP? Yeah they put up some prizes and promotion money, but are they going to continue to do that, and is it needed if they are going to stick with the NMCA.
It has already been stated that the race will stay in Memphis. Fine, but does that mean that the "official LSX Shootout" is tied to the NMCA forever?
Will they even have a race to run in the future if the Late Model community can stand on our own and put together something ourselves?
I think now is the time to start a planning committee and move forward, instead of waiting to see what scraps NMCA will throw our way.
This race NEEDS to be our showcase event to show off the baddest LSX powered machines, winning a GMPP LSX block is cool and all, but I don't think it needs to be the ultimate incentive to keep sucking the hind tit........
We don't need to set the world on fire with a monster event, but I don't want to see an event like this die off, due to being treated like second class citizens.
Now I know a lot of work goes into this event, and I don't want to come across like the NMCA can't run a race, because they can. It just might be too overwhelming for them to try to pull of 2 separate events at the same time.
We have many people in our community that wear a lot of different hats, lets pool our own resources and stand on our own...........:angel:
EDIT:
Robin got his post in as I was typing. I don't want to come across as GMPP is not wanted, my concern was that it appeared they are tied with NMCA, if not, great. Lets move forward.

I know it's the LSx shootout but make it a GMPP shootout and invite LTx cars (we have several 8 second nitrous/turbo cars that run hard) One way to increase car count is to not limit it to JUST LS platforms... I mean late model is late model right???? Have a GM Fuel Injected shootout..... The LS cars have kept their noses turned up to us since the event started cause our engines aren't as new even though they are far from carb'd dinosaurs...

I agree with this as well. It would greatly increase the field size and I think this would really be a good event. Just think of all of the trash talk this could generate...not bad trash talk...the good, get you hyped up trash talk.

I don't think we can critique how well or how slowly MMP cleaned/ prepped the track. In fact I thought they were very careful. One way I can tell they are doing a good job is you didn't see cars sliding around after they cleaned up a spot.

The issue is just the shear number of cars making passes. Last year the TS guys (I was one of them), ran all our passes with some downtime in between, but it was doable. I was wondering for this years racers how they were able to go to the bathroom while they waited out there for 6 hours, right Edgar? :)

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu101/ProStockJohn/2009%20LSX%20Shootout/IMG_1232.jpg

I don't think we can critique how well or how slowly MMP cleaned/ prepped the track. In fact I thought they were very careful. One way I can tell they are doing a good job is you didn't see cars sliding around after they cleaned up a spot.

The issue is just the shear number of cars making passes. Last year the TS guys (I was one of them), ran all our passes with some downtime in between, but it was doable. I was wondering for this years racers how they were able to go to the bathroom while they waited out there for 6 hours, right Edgar? :)


And was there anyone actually policing TS entrants from changing anything other then tire pressure? I am not saying anything did happen, but it looked pretty easy for someone to make unauthorized changes, when they sat there for 6 hours. Hell you would have to let them warm back up for a while to get the oil temps in check after that long in the cold.
I did see a few rear hatches open, not sure if that is ok?

[QUOTE=Pro Stock John;12390003]I don't think we can critique how well or how slowly MMP cleaned/ prepped the track. In fact I thought they were very careful. One way I can tell they are doing a good job is you didn't see cars sliding around after they cleaned up a spot.

The issue is just the shear number of cars making passes. Last year the TS guys (I was one of them), ran all our passes with some downtime in between, but it was doable. I was wondering for this years racers how they were able to go to the bathroom while they waited out there for 6 hours, right Edgar? :)

Empty Powerade bottle.:D

After all the controversy over rules, and desired rule changes, and most of that appearing to fall on deaf ears in my opinion. Add low attendance this year, and a horrible job running the LSX portion of the event. We need change....
Do we really need GMPP? Yeah they put up some prizes and promotion money, but are they going to continue to do that, and is it needed if they are going to stick with the NMCA.
It has already been stated that the race will stay in Memphis. Fine, but does that mean that the "official LSX Shootout" is tied to the NMCA forever?
Will they even have a race to run in the future if the Late Model community can stand on our own and put together something ourselves?
I think now is the time to start a planning committee and move forward, instead of waiting to see what scraps NMCA will throw our way.
This race NEEDS to be our showcase event to show off the baddest LSX powered machines, winning a GMPP LSX block is cool and all, but I don't think it needs to be the ultimate incentive to keep sucking the hind tit........
We don't need to set the world on fire with a monster event, but I don't want to see an event like this die off, due to being treated like second class citizens.
Now I know a lot of work goes into this event, and I don't want to come across like the NMCA can't run a race, because they can. It just might be too overwhelming for them to try to pull of 2 separate events at the same time.
We have many people in our community that wear a lot of different hats, lets pool our own resources and stand on our own...........:angel:
EDIT:
Robin got his post in as I was typing. I don't want to come across as GMPP is not wanted, my concern was that it appeared they are tied with NMCA, if not, great. Lets move forward.


Remember...

1) Nothing is set in stone.
2) Everything is negotiable.

GMPP wants what you want.

They appreciate your loyalty.

We are in this together.

Robin

LSX/LTX Shootout. Seperate classes. champions run off at the end. keep it at memphis.

Remember...

1) Nothing is set in stone.
2) Everything is negotiable.

GMPP wants what you want.

They appreciate your loyalty.

We are in this together.

Robin
This is good news.
I believe the majority of of the community, those that have attended and not, will back an event on our own.
I see no problem letting LTX cars in, not much a threat anyways! :poke:
Might need their own classes to keep the scope on LSX though.
OUTLAW DR needs to be that, no need to restrict the baddest class for the sake of someone else's rules, lets see tire, turbo, N20, car type etc.. restrictions lifted to showcase the whole point of it, the power plant LSX!!!
If we need a class for N20, and trucks,SUV's, lets do it. The True Street and Rumble format is great, and I think we will continue to see a high car count for that. With our event, we can assure the format will get the True Street cars down the track as they were intended.
275 classes are very popular lately, what would it hurt to diversify the Drag Radial class to include separate classes for N20 cars or 275 tires? Nothing, lets do it.
Rules need to be rules, but if there is an overwhelming outcry for a change, we can listen and amend as fit. This event will be for us, I think we all should be able to add input to make sure we have the fairest, and most exciting event as possible.
Lets get a committee together now, and move forward with brainstorming sessions to get ground work laid out. If this is something we can agree to move out on our own, attacking the problem now to work a solution will make more sense then complaining and waiting for something to happen.
A lot of great ideas can come up now, with the past event fresh in peoples minds.

see no problem letting LTX cars in, not much a threat anyways!
Might need their own classes to keep the scope on LSX though

Either we could do our own classes or offer weight breaks for our archaic 23 degree heads compared to the LSx boys 11 degree cathedral port monsters....

I could definitely step up my combo to run mid 5's in the 1/8th and mid 8's somewhere if i really leaned on it (which I would for this event).... I think running the events concurrently would help us and the LS community by bigger car counts and more people in the stands.... The LTx shootout the last time I think had at least 50 cars IIRC....

Either we could do our own classes or offer weight breaks for our archaic 23 degree heads compared to the LSx boys 11 degree cathedral port monsters....

If you think the big boys are running cathedral port heads, it's going to be a long year for ya, hahaha.


I do, however, love the fact that the LTx guys are basically calling out the LSx crowd!!! It will be a fun time with some good old grudge racing if/when this does go down!!!

If you think the big boys are running cathedral port heads, it's going to be a long year for ya, hahaha.


I do, however, love the fact that the LTx guys are basically calling out the LSx crowd!!! It will be a fun time with some good old grudge racing if/when this does go down!!!

Well I do admit I haven't been keeping track of the lastest and greatest of what the big boys are running. I know that you guys run like 11 degree heads IIRC... we're still making the best of it with 23 degree heads.... shit if my heads flow 320 cfm i'd be shocked... :D

It is what it is, but what I DO know is that here in Northern California the fastest 4th gen f-body with an OEM motor combo LT/LS isn't an LS car..... so i'm not scurred to run with the LS cars.... especially in a nitrous class... let's make it happen and i'll be there.... and i'll bring more than a few cars with me...

This was my first time at the LSX Shootout. The weather was a factor. There were some problems. But, I felt the 11 hour ride from Detroit was worth it. You guys have already made great points about this year's event, so no need to complain.

I want to personally thank Shawn and Ed, from Virginia Speed, and Chris, (Veee8), for the hospitality this weekend. We had some laughs and ate good!

The seed is planted. Let it grow forward. This event can and will be great in the future. I think we can impliment alot of these ideas to make it great.

Maybe we can go to our divisional tracks to see if they can organize 4-5 weekend events in the summer and have the point leaders meet at the Shootout. (just a thought).

Chris, it has roller cam bearings!!!!! LOLOL

Shawn Va Speed - I sent you a PM

Robin Great Idea - Before anyone reinvents the wheel - lets work with GM.

Hopefully someone besides myself will take the time to download the names of the folks who have expressed an interest in doing this. The old 10% rule always applies. 100 folks say they are interested - 10 volunteer to do someone 6 work to make it happen.

Looks like Chicago and St Louis are the two far west cities where people have posted frrom. Everyone knows Memphis. Draw a box boys - thats the area where you currently draw your racers and posters.

Sounds like many want a GM event or events: Thats a SIMPLE track rental. Lets not forget there are current monthly D/R Outlaw 10.5 events. Most of your D/R class came from one track, Milan. A NMCA member said that was Mike Browns Home Track. Mike Brown is one of the Ohio Boys. - Go Figure

It's our duty to post monthly events - race - and attend. This deal can happen.

Jake & Rick

I like the idea of having the ltx/lsx shootout together at kcir where the ltx deal is now.

That way it helps both groups.

Thats a great idea...would love to see that happen!!:nod:

How about non gm bodies being allowed to race in heads up also. as long its LT1/LSX and the weights are in place what does it matter :)

How about non gm bodies being allowed to race in heads up also. as long its LT1/LSX and the weights are in place what does it matter :)

Well, ask and you might get what you want and it's in your area.

11/14 - Virginia Motorsports Park - Ultimate Outlaw Nationals - It's a Pritchett Brothers Event - and it's one day. :D

Trying to talk the Ohio Boys into a 10 hr. drive to get there. :bang:

And I really don't think they care what brand race car you have. :punch:

Jake & Rick

I like the LSx/LTx event and if they think they could keep up with the same rules and in the same classes then run them together. I also think that this needs to be its own stand alone event rather than a add on to a regular NMCA event.

I dont know what the hold up is on not allowing non gm bodies but just go to the FI section and transplant section on this site and you'll see the the LS is a major transplant into almost any kind of car. I think it would be awesome to see big turbo RX7's and mustangs with LS's in them racing. Also that would take advantage of the benefits offered by other non gm platforms that might be better for drag racing, especially when budget is part of the issue (Fox Body).

As far a nitrous cars go, I dont think they need their own class because they can compete with turbo cars in a class where the rules even things out. There might not be a nitrous LS car that can go 7.50's with the outlaw guys but there are cars like Smith, RPM, and ATV that can get low 8's and may even test the 7.90's with some time. I would run a 275 class with 88mm turbos and a TRUE outlaw class for the big dog turbo guys.

Also you could do regional events with smaller payouts. One in Cecil county or MIR for the nothern/ VA,NC cars. On down in Florida or Texas for the deep south, Detroit or Chicago for the midwest and Las Vegas or Cali for the western guys. Then we could also have a Championship in Memphis or where ever at the end of the season.

This is good news.
I believe the majority of of the community, those that have attended and not, will back an event on our own.
I see no problem letting LTX cars in, not much a threat anyways!
Might need their own classes to keep the scope on LSX though.
OUTLAW DR needs to be that, no need to restrict the baddest class for the sake of someone else's rules, lets see tire, turbo, N20, car type etc.. restrictions lifted to showcase the whole point of it, the power plant LSX!!!
If we need a class for N20, and trucks,SUV's, lets do it. The True Street and Rumble format is great, and I think we will continue to see a high car count for that. With our event, we can assure the format will get the True Street cars down the track as they were intended.
275 classes are very popular lately, what would it hurt to diversify the Drag Radial class to include separate classes for N20 cars or 275 tires? Nothing, lets do it.
Rules need to be rules, but if there is an overwhelming outcry for a change, we can listen and amend as fit. This event will be for us, I think we all should be able to add input to make sure we have the fairest, and most exciting event as possible.
Lets get a committee together now, and move forward with brainstorming sessions to get ground work laid out. If this is something we can agree to move out on our own, attacking the problem now to work a solution will make more sense then complaining and waiting for something to happen.
A lot of great ideas can come up now, with the past event fresh in peoples minds.


Why are you so intent on doing it on your own without the people who have worked so hard to bring it around for the past three years? It's quite the insult to the people who have labored long and hard to make these events happen. There have been untold hours of time devoted to trying to develop the event and make it all that it can be, and not that it's about the money but I don't think you realize how much money some of these places put up to make these events happen. Everyone involved wants to make it a better and more successful event, there is no reason to continue with talking about cutting all of that out and doing something on your own. If you think it's THAT easy, you are in for a rude awakening.

Do you know where the Shootout came from? A member here helped get the ball rolling and it ran over into SDPC and GMPP and thanks to that, it's here. It was born from the members here and the two main people putting it on, and I am certain that it will continue to grow and change based on the input of members and attendees. If you think you can put one together and run it perfect right away than you need a reality check. Also, if you think EVERY suggestion made about how it should run and locations should be taken and run with, you need a serious reality check. It is certain that changes will happen and the event will continue to grow in the direction most favorable to making the members and attendees happen, but bitching about how you need to just do it on your own is asinine.

The need to piggyback another event like it has been the first years is obvious. You truly don't understand the costs and requirements for putting something like this on. If the LSX (and/or LTX) guys support it enough then it will surely become it's own independent event and can cater to the best wishes and desires that we all have. That means SUPPORT BY ATTENDING AND/OR RACING. Everyone is quick to support giving an opinion or thinking something is cool. Getting people there is a whole different story though.

The answer to these desires is constructive criticism, realistic desires, and working with the people who have devoted so much time and money to getting these races running these past years. They desire for it to go the same direction that we all do, but they can't do it without our face to face support every year.

Also the idea of multiple races a year does not seem feasible. That would simply double the cost due to doing everything including paying for a track twice, and it would cut the attendance at each event. The notion that two shows instead of one actually increasing the attendance at both of them to more than one a year isn't very logical.

oneBADDz were you around when Tony and I ran and funded the EFI Nationals series when we owned LS1TECH? Where's the love. :)

Or the 2001 NFRA race I did with Chris Endres at BG...

Shawn Va Speed - I sent you a PM

Robin Great Idea - Before anyone reinvents the wheel - lets work with GM.

Hopefully someone besides myself will take the time to download the names of the folks who have expressed an interest in doing this. The old 10% rule always applies. 100 folks say they are interested - 10 volunteer to do someone 6 work to make it happen.

Looks like Chicago and St Louis are the two far west cities where people have posted frrom. Everyone knows Memphis. Draw a box boys - thats the area where you currently draw your racers and posters.

Sounds like many want a GM event or events: Thats a SIMPLE track rental. Lets not forget there are current monthly D/R Outlaw 10.5 events. Most of your D/R class came from one track, Milan. A NMCA member said that was Mike Browns Home Track. Mike Brown is one of the Ohio Boys. - Go Figure

It's our duty to post monthly events - race - and attend. This deal can happen.

Jake & Rick

What about a West coast event also. You don't hear from a lot of us cause it's too damn far to Memphis. Wouldn't Cali support something like this for the left coasters?

oneBADDz were you around when Tony and ran and funded the EFI Nationals series when we owned LS1TECH? Where's the love. :)

Or the 2001 NFRA race I did with Chris Endres at BG...

I don't have direct knowledge of those events, although I have always had some love towards the projects of Tony and John :D

I think having done some events you probably have a handle on what I was getting at with the best way to approach changes etc, and probably of what's feasible and what's not right away. I think most of the things that need addressed are easily taken up with the people arranging and doing so much with both man hours and also financially. The people who are putting these on want the growth and smooth running and happy attendees just as much as anyone else, if not even more since their blood sweat and tears have gone into making it happen three years in a row. It's gay for a certain member or members to keep talking about cutting them out and arranging their own events instead of working it out to simply build on the existing event which can easily evolve into what everyone wants if everyone will support said event.

I know there are multiple events that one can run on a regional level but I for one would love to see a combined GM event for late model vehicles.... heads up with a bunch of classes to choose from. Put the weights in place and let people run what they brung...

I always like dividing up the nitrous vs turbo cars cause ultimately it's hard for lower budget guys with nitrous LS and LT cars to compete with twin turbo monster shop cars sporting 50,000 dollar drivetrains.... And I think the LT cars with alot of spray can run with the LS cars on spray... we might not win but we'd keep it competitive... :D

John the tractor coming out was a good indicator there was time to go to the restroom.

I am late in getting in here but hopefully you all saw letter from the NMCA leaders regarding changes for next year and we are still a year away.

I too want to thank those who came out. It was a trying weekend and one we will learn from.

I went last year too the shootout for the first time and had a great time and was impressed with all the lsx shootout classes and how things were run (Great Job NMCA), but not so much with the nmca classes, the future is with lsx powered vehicles and even in times of recession we all come together to show what our cars are capable of doing with lsx based motors. Ive personally spent lots $$$$$$ this year to make my car a high powered true street competitor. I think what veee8/ shawn@ virginia speed and many others have stated, is we need too start working on our own GMPP shootout whether just LSX based cars or even LTX vs. LSX. Im in.....:nod:

Why are you so intent on doing it on your own without the people who have worked so hard to bring it around for the past three years? It's quite the insult to the people who have labored long and hard to make these events happen. There have been untold hours of time devoted to trying to develop the event and make it all that it can be, and not that it's about the money but I don't think you realize how much money some of these places put up to make these events happen. Everyone involved wants to make it a better and more successful event, there is no reason to continue with talking about cutting all of that out and doing something on your own. If you think it's THAT easy, you are in for a rude awakening.

Do you know where the Shootout came from? A member here helped get the ball rolling and it ran over into SDPC and GMPP and thanks to that, it's here. It was born from the members here and the two main people putting it on, and I am certain that it will continue to grow and change based on the input of members and attendees. If you think you can put one together and run it perfect right away than you need a reality check. Also, if you think EVERY suggestion made about how it should run and locations should be taken and run with, you need a serious reality check. It is certain that changes will happen and the event will continue to grow in the direction most favorable to making the members and attendees happen, but bitching about how you need to just do it on your own is asinine.

The need to piggyback another event like it has been the first years is obvious. You truly don't understand the costs and requirements for putting something like this on. If the LSX (and/or LTX) guys support it enough then it will surely become it's own independent event and can cater to the best wishes and desires that we all have. That means SUPPORT BY ATTENDING AND/OR RACING. Everyone is quick to support giving an opinion or thinking something is cool. Getting people there is a whole different story though.

The answer to these desires is constructive criticism, realistic desires, and working with the people who have devoted so much time and money to getting these races running these past years. They desire for it to go the same direction that we all do, but they can't do it without our face to face support every year.

Also the idea of multiple races a year does not seem feasible. That would simply double the cost due to doing everything including paying for a track twice, and it would cut the attendance at each event. The notion that two shows instead of one actually increasing the attendance at both of them to more than one a year isn't very logical.

I think you are the one mistaken. I never said I would do it on my own. The community needs to band together and move forward.
I have said I believe NMCA has the best intentions, but intentions don't mean squat.
If serious changes are not made, this event will fade away. Memphis is a decent location, and is centralized, but a lot of competitors are still 8-12 hours away. People are not going to want to keep coming to event that is touted as this big glamorous baddest of the bad LSX Shootout, only to stand around and be treated second class.
The reason I am so adiment on moving forward is that I understand an event of this magnatude requires a lot, and a year of planning is tight.
If NMCA and GMPP/Scoggin are going to stay in bed together, it might be time for an un-official LSX event.
Were you even at this years event? I really can't understand anyone being warm and fuzzy about the way the event played out.
After 3 years of a similar format, why would I not want call upon change? Your theroy of standing back and letting the powers of be decide everything, and continue to TRY to run 2 separate events at the same time, and be ok with it is gay. Just let them grow the event? I think after 3 years of not quite getting it right, and just waiting for them to, is sad.
You sound like a very close minded person, that is content with someone telling you what to do, and you wouldn't care if it right or not. Disregarding input from fellow racers on how the event/classes should be, ought to be a crime.

oneBADDz were you around when Tony and ran and funded the EFI Nationals series when we owned LS1TECH? Where's the love. :)

Or the 2001 NFRA race I did with Chris Endres at BG...

I know...it seems no one remembers our attempt to run a race series....and half the people never showed up.

I think you are the one mistaken. I never said I would do it on my own. The community needs to band together and move forward.
I have said I believe NMCA has the best intentions, but intentions don't mean squat.
If serious changes are not made, this event will fade away. Memphis is a decent location, and is centralized, but a lot of competitors are still 8-12 hours away. People are not going to want to keep coming to event that is touted as this big glamorous baddest of the bad LSX Shootout, only to stand around and be treated second class.
The reason I am so adiment on moving forward is that I understand an event of this magnatude requires a lot, and a year of planning is tight.
If NMCA and GMPP/Scoggin are going to stay in bed together, it might be time for an un-official LSX event.
Were you even at this years event? I really can't understand anyone being warm and fuzzy about the way the event played out.
After 3 years of a similar format, why would I not want call upon change? Your theroy of standing back and letting the powers of be decide everything, and continue to TRY to run 2 separate events at the same time, and be ok with it is gay. Just let them grow the event? I think after 3 years of not quite getting it right, and just waiting for them to, is sad.
You sound like a very close minded person, that is content with someone telling you what to do, and you wouldn't care if it right or not. Disregarding input from fellow racers on how the event/classes should be, ought to be a crime.
I'm not trying to get into an argument, but you are responding to the exact opposite of what I said.
I said to WORK WITH the people who put the show on and to look forward with realistic suggestions and expectations, I said to use constructive criticism to help them make the show better. I said nothing of standing back and letting the powers that be decide everything, I simply said it's more realistic to let the people who have been doing so much to put this show on continue to make improvements based on input from the people who participate in the event. You didn't read my post at all because you are acting as if I said the exact opposite of what I actually did say.

The ONLY thing you got right is where I said it's unreasonable for you to start talking about the racers going forward with their own unofficial LSX event. Not only is it unreasonable, it's unrealistic and you don't understand what is involved in this process. We have a killer opportunity with the people who invest so much into these events. Help them make it better instead of acting like a prick. They have already plainly stated intentions of working towards what the racers and participants are calling for. Help them help you.

I think there are a lot of valid points here...especially about adding another heads-up class that will allow for the nitrous guys to compete. Those of you interested in making the biggest and most awesome LSX event ever would be wise to work with GMPP and the NMCA to do so by providing constructive criticism in the appropriate thread.

Sorry John/Tony, I had a blast at the LS1Tech racing series while it lasted, but there is no comparison...with the support of the LSX community, GM and the NMCA has the ability to put on the biggest and best LSX event(s) possible. Tell them what you want changed and if they do, live up to your end of the bargain by showing up. Clearly by Scott's post yesterday, the NMCA is listening and wants to make it the best event possible.

This was my first lsx shootout attendance. I am glad my car was not able to make it. I would have been pissed off like all the other racers. However, it was a decent event from a spectators perspective. I got to meet a couple of the sponsors, vendors, and several members of this site. The weather was definitely a big factor. Why does it have to be so late in the year? This is not a cummalitve points event for us just a one time shot. NMCA has so many events each year why does it have to be coupled to the finals? I know we have come a long way from the beginning, according to the originators. We cannot however leave it in their hands and expect a change. Not saying they can't do it, they just need our help. I would be more than happy to assist for next year in anyway possible. I don't wan't this event to die out.

The weather was definitely a big factor. Why does it have to be so late in the year?



Remember this exact event last year, at the same time, was pure heat!!! It's incredible the change in temps this time vs last year. I think last year the temps were in the high 80's during the day, and cooled off at night? Can't control the weather, and I'd rather see it in October anyways! It gives the races plenty of time to get dialed in locally, and then the cool weather at the shootout to bust some new records. The offset to that is what happened to the nitrous guys in the NMCA classes: tunes WAY off and nitrous backfires. We went from betting on who would win, to betting on which nitrous car would make it the furthest before backfiring! Funny.....but sad at the same time for those guys.

I would like to see LTX/LSX. People would come.

I'll always continue to come to the LSx shootout in Memphis with the NMCA. From what we saw yesterday from the NMCA reps, it's well on it's way to being an excellent event and a great way to showcase LS racing.


However, It would be great to see the LTx shootout in KCIR bring on the LSx guys as well. I'd make the haul...I know in my group, we are deeply into both LS and LT:

-LS turbo DR car
-LS cam only/nitrous
-LS cam only/nitrous
-LS Blown/cammed CTSv
-LT turbo 3rd gen
-LT nitrous 3rd gen

I don't know about you guys, but the grudge racing/bench racing talk STILL continues to this day about LT/LS...haha

That solves the people's request for a LTx/LSx "king of the hill" format, allows for a late model specific race where there is room to have those MULTIPLE classes(H/c, Cam only, bolt on, etc like the old races back at Beech Bend).

It also allows the LSx Shootout to continue forward with, say, 3 dedicated BIG heads up classes that really showcase the LS community to the rest of the racing community as well as True Street/Index. We have to be realistic abou the LSx Shootout/NMCA, there is ALOT of cars there, and we have to be specific and use our "time" on the track carefully. 3 full heads up LS classes next year plus say 65 True Street/index cars is going to be a full schedule when you are talking about 145 NMCA cars there as well.

Sounds like a win-win to me?

From reading a thread on the NMCA board, it sounds like there were some frustrations with other classes too. In the end, we all know that the weather, eleventy billion brackets that could do buybacks, and other factors played a role. I can't really fault those guys for preferencing NMCA, after all that's what they do all year. But folks traveled a long way to see some LSX Drag Radial (and other cars) cars duke it out and it would have been nice for someone in power to say whoa we need give them something.

On a lighter note, you couldn't have a nicer bunch of racers than our LSX regulars. LMR was willing to lend Mark a transmission, Madman was fixing a bunch of cars, Spectacle Solutions help racers fix their cars, and advice was freely given to future competitors.

All I'm going to say is that the junior dragsters and bracket racing definitely does not belong at this event.

I can live with the NMCA stuff.

-I Agree 100%! The NMCA stuff is cool! It seems the NMCA is what makes this event possible in the way we have known it.

-For an event this size though, I honestly don't think there is room for the local bracket racers and Jr. Dragsters. Sorry local guys.

-If we should want to venture into our own event, I think a "GM HighTech" or "GM efi" type event would work well. Obviously the LSX portion remaining the same or similar to the way it is currently set up.



I have been every year and been very impressed with how efficient the event was. This year, for multiple reasons, things just didn't run as smoothly.


Happy Trails

Eric

What about a West coast event also. You don't hear from a lot of us cause it's too damn far to Memphis. Wouldn't Cali support something like this for the left coasters?

You say you're a bracketracer. So, you should be interested in two existing events for GM only cars. One event in California - one in AZ. That's two of 15 events a group called Super Chevy puts on each year.

In my opinion: too often too many people try to do the same thing. Super Chevy runs all over the country. LS1Tech runs once a year in Tenn. You want more racing add LS1's racers to the existing 15 Chevy shows. If you want Outlaw 10.5 and Drag Radial added, write Super Chevy a letter. If you want something else let them know.

When I began selling GM cars in 1968; GM had perhaps 50% of the market. Isn't the target share this year 18%? A little word call EGO entered the picture. Who besides me thinks LS1 Tech and Super Chevy could work closer together? :chug:

Ive been in attendance as a spectator the last two years and had a good time both years and agree with most of the points made in here. Id like to see a standalone event, seeing ltx/lsx cars together would be pretty cool. As of now Im planing on bringing my car down next year regardless for True Street and Index but Id like to see some changes take place.

Lsx/Ltx shootout for the win! That is all!