Generation IV Internal Engine - Big N/A horse power guys please step in

Doing some research and need some info. would like to see some engine combos 600rw plus N/A. looking for closer to the 700rw but anything in between would be nice.

Anyone running more than a 4.000 stroke and turning 8,000 rpm?

Anyone running big rw #'s with the FAST LSXr?

Anyone running 13 to 1 on pump gas?

Links to build would be great also

Thanks for any help
Kris

Doing some research and need some info. would like to see some engine combos 600rw plus N/A. looking for closer to the 700rw but anything in between would be nice.

Anyone running more than a 4.000 stroke and turning 8,000 rpm?

Anyone running big rw #'s with the FAST LSXr?

Anyone running 13 to 1 on pump gas?

Links to build would be great also

Thanks for any help
Kris


That would be stupid.

No-one with a street motor is going to be anywhere close to 700 rwhp on a NA pump gas build with only a 4" stroke.

That would be awesome to see something like that on the streets. Sounds like a lot of money though

That would be stupid.

No-one with a street motor is going to be anywhere close to 700 rwhp on a NA pump gas build with only a 4" stroke.

That is several different questions so don't put them all together.

That would be stupid.

No-one with a street motor is going to be anywhere close to 700 rwhp on a NA pump gas build with only a 4" stroke.

Thanks for the help! You answered zero of my questions.

Doing some research and need some info. would like to see some engine combos 600rw plus N/A. looking for closer to the 700rw but anything in between would be nice.

Anyone running more than a 4.000 stroke and turning 8,000 rpm?

Anyone running big rw #'s with the FAST LSXr?

Anyone running 13 to 1 on pump gas?

Links to build would be great also

Thanks for any help
Kris

You can make 700+ RWHP with the right heads/intake, 13:1, race gas, big cam, M6.

Build a 454ci resleeved LS2.

.

looking for builds like this

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1052522-wow-my-fms-441ci-made-884hp-649tq-na.html

looking for builds like this

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1052522-wow-my-fms-441ci-made-884hp-649tq-na.html

Are you considering going full race now? High comp/race gas only?

I am looking for info on all of the above. I am just looking. lol

subscribing

I am looking for info on all of the above. I am just looking. lol

There's a handful of those types of builds out there.

Depending on your wallet you can have whatever you want. That FMS engine is not a streetable engine. Can it be driven on the street, yes, anything can be, but its a drag engine.

There's only two questions to ask:
What do you want to do with the car?
How much money do you have to spend?
Street only...
Street/Strip...
Strip only...

There's a bunch of 600-650 RWHP cars out there that are daily drivers too.

.

13:1 running on E85. theres your pump gas. solid roller, obviously. the LSXR still a bit on the questionable side. if you used an LSX block, a 4.185 or 4.2 inch bore with the 4" stroke would be a screamer

13:1 running on E85. theres your pump gas. solid roller, obviously. the LSXR still a bit on the questionable side. if you used an LSX block, a 4.185 or 4.2 inch bore with the 4" stroke would be a screamer

Think there would be enough gasket to last with a 4.2" bore and 13:1 cr?

.

Think there would be enough gasket to last with a 4.2" bore and 13:1 cr?

.

im jus validating your concept, not the execution. you do realize this car will not be very street friendly at all at 700rwhp n/a, right?

im jus validating your concept, not the execution. you do realize this car will not be very street friendly at all at 700rwhp n/a, right?

It would certainly make a fun weekend warrior though.

.

My 431CI LSX Block made 646RWHP NA and easily RPM to 8400RPM through a Turbo 400 and an 8" Convertor.Easily over 700RWHP with a Clutch and a Manual.C-14 Race Gas as its close to 15:1 Compression.Big Stuff 3 Controls it all.Thanks to Dale Cherry,John Meaney

http://www.artrains.com/ebayphotos/formula_431ci_LSX_010.JPG

Wow thats a nice setup Ray, and to the OP good luck making your goal. Sounds like a lot of fun!

-SS

My 431CI LSX Block made 646RWHP NA and easily RPM to 8400RPM through a Turbo 400 and an 8" Convertor.Easily over 700RWHP with a Clutch and a Manual.C-14 Race Gas as its close to 15:1 Compression.Big Stuff 3 Controls it all.Thanks to Dale Cherry,John Meaney

http://www.artrains.com/ebayphotos/formula_431ci_LSX_010.JPG

Thanks. That's the kind of stuff I am looking for.

What is street friendly? LOL
I have street driven my blown alky BBC truck on slicks before. Was it fun? HELL YES!

I sold my entire engine out of my car so YES I am doing research on my next build.

I am looking at something along the lines of

RHS block
big bore and short stroke to be able to rpm (8000)
solid roller
Allpro heads
compression is still up in the air right now. I ran 12.0 in my last motor with great results. 28 degrees of timing on pump gas with no KR. I am thinking around 13.0 so I can use a splash of race gas with the pump gas to do some street driving (not much). full race gas for the track. Wife will be pissed if she can't go for a ride. lol
Intake is still up in the air. I don't see the fast LSXr doing the job.


This is a 6 speed. I will be using a slipper clutch and YES you can street drive it.

The stupid part was trying to run 13:1 on pump GAS.

By that I mean 91-93 octane premium unleaded.

Can you run it on E-85? Hell yeah and it would love it.

The motor you described will not like the street at all. Can you do it? Yeah.

That FMS motor would not last long on the street. Hell it didn't last long in a race car. Don't worry about limiting stroke so the motor will RPM. You will be far more valvetrain and oiling sytem limited on your RPM than any crank that can be stuffed in a ls motor.

700 rwhp is a hell of a lot harder than 600 rwhp. And 600 rwhp in a streetable combo isn't at easy as some people think.

I wasn't trying to be an ass. I was just concerned about some kid reading the 13:1 on pump gas and then trying it with his motor and it blowing up. Somebody mentioned the term DCR on here in passing a few years ago and within 2 months people were running around here acting like it was a new spec you could order on a camshaft.
There are way too many people around here that think that just because you can do something, then that means you should do it.

It's one thing to cruse around town. It's another to drive it like a stupid ass putting big loads on the engine at race fuel timing.

Years ago the said limit for pump gas was 11.0 to 1. I ran 12.0 to 1 in my last motor making 550rw on pump gas. Now I see many builds going 12.5 to 1 with no issues. What is the limit? A street tune should have a conservative timing curve and knock sensors adjusted to pull timing accordingly.

What happened to the FMS motor?

That would be stupid.

No-one with a street motor is going to be anywhere close to 700 rwhp on a NA pump gas build with only a 4" stroke.

We just put together a street motor n/a that is close to 700rwhp with a 3.625 stroke but it runs 100+ octane on the strip/dyno.

We just put together a street motor n/a that is close to 700rwhp with a 3.625 stroke but it runs 100+ octane on the strip/dyno.

Spill the beans on Robs combo.

Why such a short stroke?

Big bore, short stroke. Hmmmmm Wow! Is there something to this! lol

Why such a short stroke?

Big bore, short stroke. Hmmmmm Wow! Is there something to this! lol

Rob got a great deal on a crank(stock size for his ls6) last year and wanted to use it.

It's one thing to cruse around town. It's another to drive it like a stupid ass putting big loads on the engine at race fuel timing.

Years ago the said limit for pump gas was 11.0 to 1. I ran 12.0 to 1 in my last motor making 550rw on pump gas. Now I see many builds going 12.5 to 1 with no issues. What is the limit? A street tune should have a conservative timing curve and knock sensors adjusted to pull timing accordingly.

What happened to the FMS motor?


I happen to be pretty good friends with one of the top ls builders in the land and it is amazing the amount of the 12:1 pump gas motors that he fixes. Same problem with everyone of them. Car is built in nice cool weather, weather turns hot and boom, bad motor. He has built over 600 rwhp motors with under 11.5:1 compression.

I am going to bow out now, as I really don't know what you want out of the car and what you consider streetable. Something I would not tolerate at all, you may be perfectly fine with. Good luck.:drive:

Thats the big problem with n/a motors, you can get some big power out of them, but they lose their street friendliness in the process. I'd get the biggest cubes you can get if you wanna make 600-700 and still be street "friendly".

honestly, id get a 408 and throw a lil turbo on if i wanted streetable 700hp

Rob got a great deal on a crank(stock size for his ls6) last year and wanted to use it.

I understand if you don't want to spill the beans to one of his competitors. We have PM ed each other several times in the past but I don't dare ask him how he is making his car work. I am sure he doesn't want to give out his secrets. I don't blame him. We are both out for the same goal. It's going to be hard enough to dial in my car with a soft loc. I didn't want to add the N2O factor to the clutch setup. Plus I broke way to many drive train parts last year trying to get my new nitrous setup to work with the car.

You guys did a great job with Robs car!

Goal for my car is to be the fastest C5 6 speed. That's no secret!

Thats the big problem with n/a motors, you can get some big power out of them, but they lose their street friendliness in the process. I'd get the biggest cubes you can get if you wanna make 600-700 and still be street "friendly".

honestly, id get a 408 and throw a lil turbo on if i wanted streetable 700hp

I have a easy 1000 hp car now. This is a small 300 hit
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb284/02402ramair/img028.jpg



You don't know much if you say put a turbo on it. IT'S A 6 SPEED. It's way to hard to make a 6 speed work with boost.

This is a build I just finished up. TTix Twin turbo 418. Not the way I want to go. It's an awesome street car but will be hard to make it a 9.50 car.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-forced-induction-nitrous/2391796-zo6wanted-shane-418ci-ttix-build.html

This Thread is about NA Engines we are getting way off course.Making 700RWHP with a Turbo is Childs Play.I Just saw a run on the DYNO with 377CI Make 1793 RWHP and it was an easy build.Lets Get back to NA

The problem with trying to street drive a 700rwhp Big cube solid roller motor is the valvetrain. In order to make 700rwhp you will need a big ass cam, which requires big ass springs and a crazy rocker setup. Correct if I am wrong but most of those high dollar parts are made to run for short periods of time, at certain measurements as far as pre load on the lifters and spring pressures. 600rwhp would be an attainable goal while still keeping streetability, 700rwhp would be pretty hard to do in a car that is still used to "cruise" the streets.

my ls7 make's 619rwhp@6800rpm590ftlbs with fast 102mm intake nw102mmtb allproheads and secret cam and all the supporting mods right now its walkin the fine line street car race car cold starts are a bitch and a little surging from 2200-2600rpm so a 700rwhp n/a street car is a pipe dream all depends on what you call a street car.i can get my zo6 and go anywher with cold/ac thats a street car..not something that runs on 100plus octane and go to the hang out then come home.. just my opinion..

Lets not make this a "What is a street car" thread.


You guys are missing the question here. Looking for builds between 600 and 700rw N/A.

my ls7 make's 619rwhp@6800rpm590ftlbs with fast 102mm intake nw102mmtb allproheads and secret cam and all the supporting mods right now its walkin the fine line street car race car cold starts are a bitch and a little surging from 2200-2600rpm so a 700rwhp n/a street car is a pipe dream all depends on what you call a street car.i can get my zo6 and go anywher with cold/ac thats a street car..not something that runs on 100plus octane and go to the hang out then come.. just my opinion..

Please post up more of your specs. I understand about your cam being secret. Nice power btw. Any dyno graphs?

I think you should contact ERL about their 500" deck-plated and sleeved LS2. With a 24x/25x @.050 (around.600" lift) hydraulic roller cam, LS7 heads and intake we saw 730hp @ 6300rpm. on a 250 shot the horsepower was just over 900. Nothing exotic here.

93 octane pump gas
10.3:1 CR

Please post up more of your specs. I understand about your cam being secret. Nice power btw. Any dyno graphs?

tryed to post it but keeps failing upload... my car could make a little more hp maybe like 10-20 more but my tuner keeped the timeing low due to the hottttttt climate out here other mods are 1/78 headers borla stinger no cats eletric water pump vararam sc-1 may add a vacum pump to add some hp. i heard ther worth 7-10 at wheels..i will tell you the cam is small dont like that rockin side to side stuff...

I think you should contact ERL about their 500" deck-plated and sleeved LS2. With a 24x/25x @.050 (around.600" lift) hydraulic roller cam, LS7 heads and intake we saw 730hp @ 6300rpm. on a 250 shot the horsepower was just over 900. Nothing exotic here.

93 octane pump gas

This is stuff I am looking for!

Thanks

All Big N/A power welcome.

I think you should contact ERL about their 500" deck-plated and sleeved LS2. With a 24x/25x @.050 (around.600" lift) hydraulic roller cam, LS7 heads and intake we saw 730hp @ 6300rpm. on a 250 shot the horsepower was just over 900. Nothing exotic here.

93 octane pump gas
10.3:1 CR

is that
flywheel or rwhp

I would hope it would be rw. Looks like flywheel

i dought it is rwhp... take that 730hp subtract 18percent driveline loss and you got what i got. with 427cubicinches no 500cubic inches besides that motor is like 20k.i did all my mods for $9500 installed

tryed to post it but keeps failing upload... my car could make a little more hp maybe like 10-20 more but my tuner keeped the timeing low due to the hottttttt climate out here other mods are 1/78 headers borla stinger no cats eletric water pump vararam sc-1 may add a vacum pump to add some hp. i heard ther worth 7-10 at wheels..i will tell you the cam is small dont like that rockin side to side stuff...

Is the fast ported? I sure would like to see a dyno sheet to see the curve. I would be happy with 650 and see what happens.

box stock..now it sez resize the format

That is at the flywheel.

The heads were basically cleaned up with minor port work and the intake manifold was untouched. It has a LSXR manifold and 102mm tb now and went 9.90's @135 with race weight at 3700#

That is at the flywheel.

thought so..but the idea of having 500ci under your hood is kinda cool thoe

but in all fairness erl's.500ci motor did use stock ls7 heads... put those lsw allpro-heads from wcch. then youll have boogeyman motor...or put those 32valve heads on ther holy shit batman thers your 700rwhp

i dought it is rwhp... take that 730hp subtract 18percent driveline loss and you got what i got. with 427cubicinches no 500cubic inches besides that motor is like 20k.i did all my mods for $9500 installed



is that $9500 including the cost of the LS7?

those all pro's are a nice piece :)

Keep it coming guys. I'm out for the weekend so I will check back in monday.

is that $9500 including the cost of the LS7?

those all pro's are a nice piece :)

bought the 07 zo6 box stock then went from ther...

I am by no means trying to come off as being condescending towards your set up by asking that question. What I was trying to get at is, for the results the OP was looking for it's going to be spendy any way you hash it out.

no offfense takin the $9500 is cheap but i bought most of it used and great cond.now labor to install now thats another thread.lol

This is stuff I am looking for!

Thanks

All Big N/A power welcome.

That 500ci ERL would be simply AWESOME if it wasn't so damn expensive. Its just way too much money, if you plan to use the regular top end stuff (LS7 heads, LS7 intake, FAST intakes...etc..) all you're gonna get is an engine with just a little bit more than a run of the mill built 427ci-440ci.

There's a guy on here with one that makes only 650 RWHP, thats a joke for a 500ci engine. Its gonna be a very fast car, no doubt...but for 500ci.....lol
You can build a 454ci LSX for half the money or less....and make MORE than 650 RWHP with the right top end and not spend near $25,000.

Its 100%, all about the intake and heads. Cubes are meaningless if they can't breath.

"There's no replacement for displacement".....well displacement means nothing with the right top end.

.

You don't know much if you say put a turbo on it. IT'S A 6 SPEED. It's way to hard to make a 6 speed work with boost.



Wasn't paying attention to the 6 speed, my bad. not that it cant be done tho.

and its not way hard to make a street friendly 700hp n/a smallblock?? :devil:

My vote is a 540cid BBC. You should be able to make 750-800fwhp on pump gas with no problem and have more torque and area under the curve than you know what to do with. I really believe it could be done with decent heads and a moderate camshaft. There are some guys over on speedtalk that have done bigger 598cid motors making 900+fwhp on pump gas with very nice heads and moderate to racy camshafts. If you are worried about weight, use a Dart aluminum block.

I really think you are going to have a hard time reaching such a "goal" on the LS platform. It is a great engine and it can be done, but the engine will be high maintenance and what we call around here "a short life-r".

You said you don't want this to become a thread about what is and what is not streetable, so put what ever engine you want in there that makes the power you are after and call it done. Let us know how it works out for you.

Here is a motor you can put in there which is at your power level and beyond... and here is a hint: I know this guy and I doubt he has ever looked at LS1Tech. Which means quit BS'ing with these dreams.

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/92/Drag_Racing/post/1669869/418ci-lsx-n-a-drag-race-motor-950-hp-.html

if you actually drive the car quite a bit then go hydraulic roller. Way less maintenance. Kiss your 8,000rpm redline good bye with one as well.
A Hydraulic roller should be good to around 7300-7500rpm with good valvetrain and lightweight valves. They are a hell of a lot cheaper than going solid roller too.

The power is in the heads.... get the best you can afford. A 4.1" stroker LS7 makes 440ci. That is a good bang for the buck. You can hit 600rwhp and have a car with no cam surge, can still run a/c without issues, and spin to 7K RPM+. Need more power... spray a 150hp shot. Resleeve the LS7 block if you plan to spray.

Beyond the 440/441/447ci size is where your wallet makes that whooshing sound with how fast the money flies out of it. A 454 large stroker motor is a stump puller and has a poor rod ratio for high revs....

My 421 made 630rwhp w/ a sheetmetal intake and I have 243 castings!
W/ a 454 and ETP 245s and a matched solid cam, 700rwhp is all in the details at that point. IE Dry sump, light weight valves, 15:1+ cr etc.
Just call up Allan Futral and tell him what you want, he'll get it done, no whining or crying. He tuned my car and I drive it on the street ANYTIME I can.

The stupid part was trying to run 13:1 on pump GAS.

By that I mean 91-93 octane premium unleaded.

Can you run it on E-85? Hell yeah and it would love it.

The motor you described will not like the street at all. Can you do it? Yeah.

That FMS motor would not last long on the street. Hell it didn't last long in a race car. Don't worry about limiting stroke so the motor will RPM. You will be far more valvetrain and oiling sytem limited on your RPM than any crank that can be stuffed in a ls motor.

700 rwhp is a hell of a lot harder than 600 rwhp. And 600 rwhp in a streetable combo isn't at easy as some people think.

I wasn't trying to be an ass. I was just concerned about some kid reading the 13:1 on pump gas and then trying it with his motor and it blowing up. Somebody mentioned the term DCR on here in passing a few years ago and within 2 months people were running around here acting like it was a new spec you could order on a camshaft.
There are way too many people around here that think that just because you can do something, then that means you should do it.


Make sure you have your info correct. The car that motor is going in is still under construction.

Ideal CR on pump gas on a DD car is 11.1-11.3 MAX ! A serious weekend car with proper tuning car go 12.0 on pump gas,anything past that is just asking for it :eek2: Just my opinion?

My LS7/L92 is 13:1 and I run it on 110. I can drive it on pump but can't get into it hard (wouldn't do it on the street anyway). It's a hydraulic roller with the stock ported L76, it makes 536 rwhp with the th350 (would be well over 600 with an m6)
I will make more power when I get a decent intake/ tb on it, it still has an 85mm maf and 90 tb.
Car drives great and idles very well during street driving.

Make sure you have your info correct. The car that motor is going in is still under construction.

Ideal CR on pump gas on a DD car is 11.1-11.3 MAX ! A serious weekend car with proper tuning car go 12.0 on pump gas,anything past that is just asking for it :eek2: Just my opinion?

My 418 is 12.0 to 1. I drove it on 2 Hot Rod Power Tours. Both long hauls. That's 2500 miles each. It was driven during the week and weekends. I ran 28 degrees timing with NO KR. I raced the car on pump gas at 28 degrees timing every other week end. I am finishing up a 383 that is 11.9 to 1 as we speak. I am sure there are kids out there trying to tune there own stuff burning down motors. I am no kid. I am 40 years old and I tune my own car. I own my own shop and I build LSX's for a living. Most of the posts I am getting are key board warriors that know nothing but what they read. Thanks for the input but I asked for real world results. Futral is a awesome shop that has built some awesome cars. I don't understand why you would say 11.3 MAX. I do it all the time close to 12.1 with great results. I was looking for wisdom from the big boys but it looks like it can't be done. I give up! NOT

I am going to spend my $20,000 and get as close to my goal as possible. I will more than likely go 12.5 cr, sheet metal intake, and solid roller. I bet you it will make 650rw plus with race gas and a race gas tune up. Pipe dreams? lol

Now I remember why I don't post much on here. Thanks to everyone who gave there input.

Make sure you have your info correct. The car that motor is going in is still under construction.

Ideal CR on pump gas on a DD car is 11.1-11.3 MAX ! A serious weekend car with proper tuning car go 12.0 on pump gas,anything past that is just asking for it :eek2: Just my opinion?

My apologies Alan. Never meant it as a dig to you or your motors. I thought the link was to another motor.

My point was that it sounded like he was wanting race motor power out of a pump gas motor and the two just don't go together. When you start getting into the power these motors are making, they just don't last for 50,000 miles on the street. They aren't meant to.

Once again, I thought the link was to another deal and I know that you have many, many big HP motors making power for a long time.

I completely agree with your statements on the compression issue.

My 418 is 12.0 to 1. I drove it on 2 Hot Rod Power Tours. Both long hauls. That's 2500 miles each. It was driven during the week and weekends. I ran 28 degrees timing with NO KR. I raced the car on pump gas at 28 degrees timing every other week end. I am finishing up a 383 that is 11.9 to 1 as we speak. I am sure there are kids out there trying to tune there own stuff burning down motors. I am no kid. I am 40 years old and I tune my own car. I own my own shop and I build LSX's for a living. Most of the posts I am getting are key board warriors that know nothing but what they read. Thanks for the input but I asked for real world results. Futral is a awesome shop that has built some awesome cars. I don't understand why you would say 11.3 MAX. I do it all the time close to 12.1 with great results. I was looking for wisdom from the big boys but it looks like it can't be done. I give up! NOT

I am going to spend my $20,000 and get as close to my goal as possible. I will more than likely go 12.5 cr, sheet metal intake, and solid roller. I bet you it will make 650rw plus with race gas and a race gas tune up. Pipe dreams? lol

Now I remember why I don't post much on here. Thanks to everyone who gave there input.

If it doesn't I would be dissapointed. That is a completely obtainable goal.

Good luck, you seem to have it covered.:drive:

That 500ci ERL would be simply AWESOME if it wasn't so damn expensive. Its just way too much money, if you plan to use the regular top end stuff (LS7 heads, LS7 intake, FAST intakes...etc..) all you're gonna get is an engine with just a little bit more than a run of the mill built 427ci-440ci.

There's a guy on here with one that makes only 650 RWHP, thats a joke for a 500ci engine. Its gonna be a very fast car, no doubt...but for 500ci.....lol
You can build a 454ci LSX for half the money or less....and make MORE than 650 RWHP with the right top end and not spend near $25,000.

Its 100%, all about the intake and heads. Cubes are meaningless if they can't breath.

"There's no replacement for displacement".....well displacement means nothing with the right top end.

.
it's not really a joke considering that ERL motor is using BONE STOCK LS7 heads. And again he even posted the graph of his old 427 vs his ERL 500. Which one would you rather have? the one with more peak power per cube or the one with 90 more hp/tq everywhere under peak rpm?

Settle in on a cam and choose compression to work with overlap....that is, the more overlap, the more compression it will tolerate, hell, it will even need it. A small cam with 2 deg of overlap would surely detonate with pump gas, but with 40 plus degrees, u better have at least 12.1 or it will be lazy on the bottom end. It's not about compression or cams, it's about COMBINATIONS :)

I agree.

That 500ci ERL would be simply AWESOME if it wasn't so damn expensive. Its just way too much money, if you plan to use the regular top end stuff (LS7 heads, LS7 intake, FAST intakes...etc..) all you're gonna get is an engine with just a little bit more than a run of the mill built 427ci-440ci.

There's a guy on here with one that makes only 650 RWHP, thats a joke for a 500ci engine. Its gonna be a very fast car, no doubt...but for 500ci.....lol
You can build a 454ci LSX for half the money or less....and make MORE than 650 RWHP with the right top end and not spend near $25,000.

Its 100%, all about the intake and heads. Cubes are meaningless if they can't breath.

"There's no replacement for displacement".....well displacement means nothing with the right top end.

.

ONLY:eek2: 650 HP? LOL that is a alot for a street engine. Considering the fact no one has tried to really push a superdeck II further than a "street engine" sooooo where are you going with this...? ERL has made around 650 on their dyno. The 500 CI from ERL has basically what would be considered a stock camshaft for a 500 inch motor, turns less than 7K RPM. GMPP L92's something around 10.5:1
VS
454 with radical cam(prolly wont idle well), aftermarket cylinder heads ported above and beyond some production L92 castings. big dollar intake manifold and Im sure it sees more than 6200 RPM. And there you have it, MAYBE it might see 650hp on an engine dyno.

LOL I really CANNOT EFFING WAIT to see the day they really do a MAX EFFORT 500 CI at ERL Performance!!

ONLY:eek2: 650 HP? LOL that is a alot for a street engine. Considering the fact no one has tried to really push a superdeck II further than a "street engine" sooooo where are you going with this...? ERL has made around 650 on their dyno. The 500 CI from ERL has basically what would be considered a stock camshaft for a 500 inch motor, turns less than 7K RPM. GMPP L92's something around 10.5:1
VS
454 with radical cam(prolly wont idle well), aftermarket cylinder heads ported above and beyond some production L92 castings. big dollar intake manifold and Im sure it sees more than 6200 RPM. And there you have it, MAYBE it might see 650hp on an engine dyno.

LOL I really CANNOT EFFING WAIT to see the day they really do a MAX EFFORT 500 CI at ERL Performance!!


My question is why in the heck would ERL build a 500ci motor and dyno it with basically stock top end parts? Built to the hilt bottom and stock top? WTH! That gives us no idea what the thing can do other than guess.


What really sucks is the header issue. Custom headers?

Try putting a tall deck in a Vette. I am sure the intake won't clear the cowl. It's all up on it right now with a stock deck!

I would love to build one but I don't want to be the guinea pig.

My question is why in the heck would ERL build a 500ci motor and dyno it with basically stock top end parts? Built to the hilt bottom and stock top? WTH! That gives us no idea what the thing can do other than guess.


What really sucks is the header issue. Custom headers?

Try putting a tall deck in a Vette. I am sure the intake won't clear the cowl. It's all up on it right now with a stock deck!

I would love to build one but I don't want to be the guinea pig.

LOL they have one in a C5!!! clears just fine!! FATORY HOOD! Im not sure what they did for exhaust but I know what I would do! The intake sits about 3/4" higher than a stock LS engine.

LOL they have one in a C5!!! clears just fine!! FATORY HOOD! Im not sure what they did for exhaust but I know what I would do! The intake sits about 3/4" higher than a stock LS engine.

The hood would not be the issue. It's the cowl. Not much room there. If they have done it then I guess it will clear. I am curious to know about the headers and the accessories. The power steering bracket bolts to the head so it should move it some what but shouldn't cause a problem. I would think it would need custom headers.

Well custom to me isnt that hard I go to my buddys fab shop borrow whatever I need or take him to lunch maybe give him $40 bucks for supplies and WAM custom whatever I want... I believe ERL had a complete Mach pulley system and I also believe they are trying to taylor these engines to the older Corvette croud, with that being said I want one with more compression, better induction, and making around twice what it is now on power!

I saw it before they went out on the Power Tour this year it didnt look like they had to fab on the cowl... I would call them up with any questions.

I saw it before they went out on the Power Tour this year it didnt look like they had to fab on the cowl... I would call them up with any questions.

Was it ERL who did the install?

The hood would not be the issue. It's the cowl. Not much room there. If they have done it then I guess it will clear. I am curious to know about the headers and the accessories. The power steering bracket bolts to the head so it should move it some what but shouldn't cause a problem. I would think it would need custom headers.


They actually did not need custom headers. They used their engine mount which lowers the engine ~1". The headers fit. The X-pipe needed to be modified, which "sounds" a lot easier to work with than having to modify both headers to fit.

Was it ERL who did the install?

Yes, but it was THEIR car not a customers. They just do machining and assembleing of engines otherwise.

They actually did not need custom headers. They used their engine mount which lowers the engine ~1". The headers fit. The X-pipe needed to be modified, which "sounds" a lot easier to work with than having to modify both headers to fit.

I would think the issue was the cowl having to lower the engine. With my 2 inch headers there is no room for movement. I had to clearance the tunnel to make mine fit without hitting. I bet they used a 1 3/4 header to make it fit. Will have to call to find out.

LOL I really CANNOT EFFING WAIT to see the day they really do a MAX EFFORT 500 CI at ERL Performance!!

My personal opinion ( which is worth about 2 cents :) ) is if that 500ci set up would hold up with a max effort build, they would have done it already OR thay have done a max effort build (under wraps) and it did not hold up. Either way, until it's proven that the set up will hold up under a serious build it's not worth speculating about it. I mean, c'mon-what are they waiting for? You can't effing wait? Why are THEY waiting for? Like people wouldn't be lining up to buy a 500ci LSX if it was a solid base for serious hp??

Would be a badass sonofabitch if it DID hold up-that's for sure! :nod:

LS2 500CI STREET/STRIP
Displacement: 500 CI, 8.2L
Bore x Stroke: 4.200 x 4.500
Compression Ratio: 12:1
Fuel: 93 Octane
Block: LS2 / Ductile Iron Sleeves
Head: LSW ALL PRO Ported (West Coast)
Rockers: Jesel Shaft Rockers (1.8:1)
Crank: Custom Callies Forged
Rods: Custom Carrillo A Beam
Pistons: Custom Wiseco
Camshaft: 248/248 @ .050, 117LSA, 0.660" LIFT
Intake: 102mm ERL
Throttle Body: 102mm ERL Electronic
POWER: 700 HP
TORQUE: 650 FT-LBS

This has bad ass heads, 12.1 compression, 102mm T/B, and so on. It's not MAX effort but is pretty damn healthy. Numbers don't look that promising for a build of this magnitude.I am sure with a nice sheet metal intake and a good size camshaft it would pick up considerably. RPM would be the limiting factor I would think.

That cam is tame for that size motor. Kumar dyno'd 650/610 w/ported GM Ls7 heads and hydraulic roller on an ERL 500ci. I don't remember the size of the cam, but he said it idled like a baby.

LS2 500CI STREET/STRIP
Displacement: 500 CI, 8.2L
Bore x Stroke: 4.200 x 4.500
Compression Ratio: 12:1
Fuel: 93 Octane
Block: LS2 / Ductile Iron Sleeves
Head: LSW ALL PRO Ported (West Coast)
Rockers: Jesel Shaft Rockers (1.8:1)
Crank: Custom Callies Forged
Rods: Custom Carrillo A Beam
Pistons: Custom Wiseco
Camshaft: 248/248 @ .050, 117LSA, 0.660" LIFT
Intake: 102mm ERL
Throttle Body: 102mm ERL Electronic
POWER: 700 HP
TORQUE: 650 FT-LBS

This has bad ass heads, 12.1 compression, 102mm T/B, and so on. It's not MAX effort but is pretty damn healthy. Numbers don't look that promising for a build of this magnitude.I am sure with a nice sheet metal intake and a good size camshaft it would pick up considerably. RPM would be the limiting factor I would think.

That motor is 12 to 1. OH SHIT. That thing is going to burn down on 93. 11.3 MAX on the street. lol I could resist.

My personal opinion ( which is worth about 2 cents :) ) is if that 500ci set up would hold up with a max effort build, they would have done it already OR thay have done a max effort build (under wraps) and it did not hold up. Either way, until it's proven that the set up will hold up under a serious build it's not worth speculating about it. I mean, c'mon-what are they waiting for? You can't effing wait? Why are THEY waiting for? Like people wouldn't be lining up to buy a 500ci LSX if it was a solid base for serious hp??

Would be a badass sonofabitch if it DID hold up-that's for sure! :nod:

You could be right tek, but I doubt you are. Think about it not evenyone can even afford their street motor. So how many would be able to pay for the high cost of the top end on that monster. Because IMHO that 500 needs a sheet metal intake with twin dominators, similar to a prostockers induction. And even though the badest heads on the market prolly wont let it breath like it needs to it is still worth a shot! And I bet you it will happen in the near future when someone comes along with enough money to foot the bill... but only time will tell.

LS2 500CI STREET/STRIP
Displacement: 500 CI, 8.2L
Bore x Stroke: 4.200 x 4.500
Compression Ratio: 12:1
Fuel: 93 Octane
Block: LS2 / Ductile Iron Sleeves
Head: LSW ALL PRO Ported (West Coast)
Rockers: Jesel Shaft Rockers (1.8:1)
Crank: Custom Callies Forged
Rods: Custom Carrillo A Beam
Pistons: Custom Wiseco
Camshaft: 248/248 @ .050, 117LSA, 0.660" LIFT
Intake: 102mm ERL
Throttle Body: 102mm ERL Electronic
POWER: 700 HP
TORQUE: 650 FT-LBS

This has bad ass heads, 12.1 compression, 102mm T/B, and so on. It's not MAX effort but is pretty damn healthy. Numbers don't look that promising for a build of this magnitude.I am sure with a nice sheet metal intake and a good size camshaft it would pick up considerably. RPM would be the limiting factor I would think.

Sounds like they have bumped up the compression and changed out the valve train and cylinder heads and picked up some power... :devil:

Why hasn't anyone mentioned LG's 500ci set-up?
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1106863-lg-motorsports-8-0-liter-ls7-package-preliminary-dyno-results-663-611-a.html

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1106863-lg-motorsports-8-0-liter-ls7-package-preliminary-dyno-results-663-611-a.html

You could be right tek, but I doubt you are. Think about it not evenyone can even afford their street motor. So how many would be able to pay for the high cost of the top end on that monster. Because IMHO that 500 needs a sheet metal intake with twin dominators, similar to a prostockers induction. And even though the badest heads on the market prolly wont let it breath like it needs to it is still worth a shot! And I bet you it will happen in the near future when someone comes along with enough money to foot the bill... but only time will tell.

Totally agree.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned LG's 500ci set-up?
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1106863-lg-motorsports-8-0-liter-ls7-package-preliminary-dyno-results-663-611-a.html

Healthy yes, no doubt but not max effort. 650-700 rwhp sounds real impressive-with a manual trans a little less impressive-with 500 cubes less impressive still.
At 12:1cr and using it as a street/strip motor yes a nice set set up and good power, probably good reliable power if tuned well on pump gas, even on 104.

I would love one at the end of the day. Power ,torque no need to rev it . Nice package if you ask me.

That cam is tame for that size motor. Kumar dyno'd 650/610 w/ported GM Ls7 heads and hydraulic roller on an ERL 500ci. I don't remember the size of the cam, but he said it idled like a baby.

Kumars heads were barely cleaned up, not ported IIRC

I would love one at the end of the day. Power ,torque no need to rev it . Nice package if you ask me.

yes it is and you're right BUT, after a while you're gonna wanna rev it. If you're spending around 10k on a short block you should have room to grow. It's the nature of the racing beast. You're gonna want to step it up. You get this bottom end and until PROVEN otherwise you will have a well running reliable (only because it's hydraulic and N/A and not being pushed) set up. For 10k, that's a HUGE downside.
I keep hearing, yeah but he's running un ported stock heads and yeah but it's hydraulic and yeah but it makes great power down low. Guys-it's 10k. You can get a 481 Warkhawk sb for less than that and beat the piss out of it so why would you get this 500 over that?

yes it is and you're right BUT, after a while you're gonna wanna rev it. If you're spending around 10k on a short block you should have room to grow. It's the nature of the racing beast. You're gonna want to step it up. You get this bottom end and until PROVEN otherwise you will have a well running reliable (only because it's hydraulic and N/A and not being pushed) set up. For 10k, that's a HUGE downside.
I keep hearing, yeah but he's running un ported stock heads and yeah but it's hydraulic and yeah but it makes great power down low. Guys-it's 10k. You can get a 481 Warkhawk sb for less than that and beat the piss out of it so why would you get this 500 over that?

I agree. The ERL 500 would be great for the street but in a racing application I think the money could be better spent with a different combination. Time will tell. Someone will max out the the ERL 500 and until then we can only guess.

LS2 500CI STREET/STRIP
Displacement: 500 CI, 8.2L
Bore x Stroke: 4.200 x 4.500
Compression Ratio: 12:1
Fuel: 93 Octane
Block: LS2 / Ductile Iron Sleeves
Head: LSW ALL PRO Ported (West Coast)
Rockers: Jesel Shaft Rockers (1.8:1)
Crank: Custom Callies Forged
Rods: Custom Carrillo A Beam
Pistons: Custom Wiseco
Camshaft: 248/248 @ .050, 117LSA, 0.660" LIFT
Intake: 102mm ERL
Throttle Body: 102mm ERL Electronic
POWER: 700 HP
TORQUE: 650 FT-LBS


This build is way down on power for hp/cid for using those cylinder heads. It probably has a lot to do with the cam choice but it still just doesn't add up. The torque is good. Those heads should be good for 800+hp with no problem on that size of an engine. Those heads will make 700hp on a 427cid like falling out of a tree.:eyes: