Dyno & Bench Racing Forum - Why dont the new Camaros perform like the 03 cobras

So i was looking at the stats for both of these cars and they both make the same hp in stock form, the weigh about the same, and have m6s with irs. But why is it that a 03 cobra with a good driver can run mid 12s and the camaro can run high 12s. Even stock 02 cobras are fast street cars but the new camaros dont seem to get the job done as well. It just seems like these 2 cars should be direct compediters but the 03 cobra seems to be faster. Any input on this just want to know what you guys think about it.

I bet that cobra wont be able to run more than 5 times with out blowing up! :lol: We are talking about the SS right?

^^ Yea the new m6 ss

The new Camaros are really heavy. I saw a 2010 SS run a 14.0 out at Baytown a couple of weeks ago. Granted I dont think the kid could drive but still it was pretty bad. He ran against a new G8 that ran a 13.4.

The OP said his info tells him the 2 cars are near the same weight.

I thought the Cobras were lighter.

I thought cobras were 3800lbs isnt that what a ss weighs?

i thought the cobras were lighter as well, could be wrong though.

All I have to say is that the Camaro is still naturally aspirated. Considering most other things are relatively equal, that says a lot, imo.

Think of it this way: If you strap on a blower onto a SS to match the Cobra's.....

just looked it up, cobra was right around 3600-3700, camaro was 3850-3950.

03 Cobra: 3665lbs
10 Camaro (2ss, m6): 3860lbs

Cobra: 4.6 390/390
Camaro: 6.2 426/420


http://autos.msn.com/research/compare/engines.aspx?c=0&n=3&i=0&tb=0&ph1=t0&ph2=t0&dt=0&v=t108829&v=t95523

Oh i guess that explians it lol i always thought the 03 cobras were 3800lbs I still think it would be a good race on the street stock vs stock. I like the comment about bolting on a blower on a ss very true!

don't know much about cobras but i'd bet they're underrated from the factory. after they had to recall some in the previous years because they rated them too high, it wouldn't surprise me if they rated these low.

look at our cars, they make a 30+ more horsepower than they're rated at

03 Cobra: 3665lbs
10 Camaro (2ss, m6): 3860lbs

]

did you see what the 2ss auto weighed, i was like holy shit :eek2:

the cobra came with 275/40/17 tires from the factory. camaro only comes with 245/45/20.

this dyno graph says a stock 03 cobra is only 376 hp
http://www.svtoa.com/svtoaforums/showthread.php?t=911

the cobra came with 275/40/17 tires from the factory. camaro only comes with 245/45/20.

yeah, GMHTP tried their best at launching the new SS and got basement 13's but were mostly held back by the tires. i can see 12's on a good tire.

did you see what the 2ss auto weighed, i was like holy shit :eek2:

screw the auto. technically, the auto doesnt have the ls3

All I have to say is that the Camaro is still naturally aspirated. Considering most other things are relatively equal, that says a lot, imo.

Think of it this way: If you strap on a blower onto a SS to match the Cobra's.....

come on man, everyone's entitled to their opinion but everything's not equal, the cobra has a liter less displacement, now granted it does breath good with the 4 valve heads, but strapping a blower to a ls1 does not make it equal. chevy decided to go with a larger engine, ford decided to use forced induction.
if we want to whip up on cobras we have to do a heads cam swap, or some go juice. its not that bad, our cars are a shit ton cheaper, so we have more mod money to play with

MSRP... Cobra is only $10 more expensive lol. ($33,460 compared to $33,450)

But on the other hand, i would drop dead if i saw a 2010 Camaro for that price

The Camaro is heavier and the two cars make about the same rwhp and rwtq.

Why dont the new Camaros perform like the 03 cobras


Same reason a LS1 with a cam can't outpower a well put together 331cid 5.0




OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :biggrinan

They run silmilar in stock form (cobras still faster)and put down around the same rwhp. The camaro's a few hundred pds more w/ huge wheels...and btw there was no 02 Cobra.

Same reason a LS1 with a cam can't outpower a well put together 331cid 5.0




OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :biggrinan


hmmm I didnt know that 331 c.i. was equal to 5.0 Liters either.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :engarde: :biggrinan
lol

My father got a V-6 2010 camaro for a rental car the other day....... say's it feel's heavy and a little gutless for 300hp..... I then told him how much it weigh's............. haha.

the cobra came with 275/40/17 tires from the factory. camaro only comes with 245/45/20.

SS comes with 275/40/20's from the factory. Tires are decent for stock.

MSRP... Cobra is only $10 more expensive lol. ($33,460 compared to $33,450)

But on the other hand, i would drop dead if i saw a 2010 Camaro for that price

I got my camaro less than that and its a 2ss/rs M6 car.

Camaro is slower but not by much. Times are similar stock for stock. Cobra is lighter, and torque curve no doubt is better on the boosted 4v.

The new Auto camaros are a lot slower than the M6s. They actually have different motors in them.

I saw a new v8 auto dyno and it put down 320whp on the same dyno my bolt on ls1 put down 336whp. Now that was bone stock and the car had like 8 miles on it so my tuner felt it had another 15-20 whp in it at least with some more time and tune, but still pretty weak.

But a couple months later we saw an New m6 SS dyno and it put down 370whp also without any miles on it and no tuning. My tuner was saying with basic exhaust/intake and a tune he was seeing 400+ whp out of these cars.

So I'm surprised they dont put down better numbers at the track.. I think as people get more familiar with them and they start strapping real tires on them, they'll start pulling better numbers remember this same LS3 motor in a vette with just bolt ons becomes almost as fast as a stock C6 Z06. Intake/exhaust gets the vettes easily into the 11s at 120+. I raced one on the way back from the track (BEFORE he got a tune) and the thing was walking me pretty hard up top on the highway, and my cars no slouch

These cars pick up more power by a good bit after the first couple thousand miles. Autos have L99 and most make less power but the fastest "stock" 2010s so far are autos.

SS comes with 275/40/20's from the factory. Tires are decent for stock.



I got my camaro less than that and its a 2ss/rs M6 car.

Camaro is slower but not by much. Times are similar stock for stock. Cobra is lighter, and torque curve no doubt is better on the boosted 4v.


how did you get that price?

These cars pick up more power by a good bit after the first couple thousand miles. Autos have L99 and most make less power but the fastest "stock" 2010s so far are autos.

Again.. sounds like a driving issue.. an auto doesnt make up for a 50whp difference on average

Driving issue with ALL drivers I guess. It has to do with autos being faster in a straight line. Dyno numbers dont mean shit unless you own a supra. Being 3rd fastest M6 time on Camaro5 I think I have a little room to talk about track times in these cars. I'm trying to put the M6 a little higher, we'll see if I can do it :)

Dealers are offering all incentives, I pulled a GMS number and a few other incentives so got a GOOD deal :)

Its not a dyno race. The manuals make more power everywhere under the curve compared to the autos. Its not just peak power.

Glad you know it's not just peak. Now can you justify the advantage auto has mechanically with the auto? Torque multiplication through the auto on launch etc? You mention a 50hp difference which is between two specific cars, one having LOW LOW LOW miles. Most cars are seeing 15-20hp increase with breakin miles alone!

Not sure why you're arguing, right now auto has the record, you dont even have a dog in this race...

Glad you know it's not just peak. Now can you justify the advantage auto has mechanically with the auto? Torque multiplication through the auto on launch etc? You mention a 50hp difference which is between two specific cars, one having LOW LOW LOW miles. Most cars are seeing 15-20hp increase with breakin miles alone!

Not sure why you're arguing, right now auto has the record, you dont even have a dog in this race...

If you have one of the faster 6mts out there what was your 60'

EDIT: After lookin at the list how can you say its NOT drivers error when most of the 6mt guys have 60's in the 2.3/2.4 range. The best person on that board still cant drive the car to a sub 2.0 60' Lol thats a little pathetic. I am sure the stock tires suck, but my first time ever to the drag strip I was able to pull 2.2s 2.3s in a 15 second FWD open differential maxima on all season tires.

The only cars sub 2.0 60' are the autos and that why they are the faster cars. If those 6mt cars could hook up they'de be faster. Traps speeds are consistently faster and the fastest 6mt is only .001 slower than the fastest auto car despite the differences in 60'

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21013

60fts on best run was 2.06. Last time out we had a headwind and worse air but cut 2.035-2.07 all 9 passes I made that night.

William

**edit**Timeslip of best so far. I'm on the left (#686)
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn145/hybredGT/1309timeslip.jpg

And the auto is still faster. Hard to get m6 under 2.0 Sorry none of those guys can drive even though the person RIGHT above me posted some of the FASTEST times in a 4th gen...You may recognize the name...

"Pathetic" is comparing your WORSE 60fts in a low power FWD car to a car that has NO similarities at all...

And the auto is still faster. Hard to get m6 under 2.0 Sorry none of those guys can drive even though the person RIGHT above me posted some of the FASTEST times in a 4th gen...You may recognize the name...

"Pathetic" is comparing your WORSE 60fts in a low power FWD car to a car that has NO similarities at all...

I think your missing the point. look at my sig. My 60's are better. I used the 200whp fwd open differential peg leg burnout machine (my daily driver) as an example cause its an absolutly the worst platform in the world to get off the line well, and I was still pulling the same 60's as most of the guys with 5th gen camaros, which are RWD cars with 300+ whp a limited slip differential and better tires.. further proving my point that theres a driving issue.. I bet people arent power shifting the manuals either.. leaving more potential on the table. Understandable because they dont want to beat up a car still under warranty.. but still a driving issue when it comes to going fast.

as far as the sixty foot in the 2.3-2.4 range with a maxima, the '10 camaro makes enough power to actually spin the tires in the first 60' rather than just roll down track at a measely 15 seconds, hell i could run that on a fucking huffy.

A fifteen second maxima is completely irrelevant to a '10 Camaro. End of story, quit while you're behind.

Op- Cobras are faster because of similar power, Camaro's are heavier, and there is more power across the board using a blower compared to an NA car.

you people are pretty dense.. forget it..

People are dense and you prove that time and time again. Powershifting in these cars does little as well if you've read up a little (which I doubt you have). Computer cuts throttle to 20-25% during shifts regardless of pedal position. I leave my foot on the floor since it makes no difference.

I will get mine sub 2.0 60fts but it takes work to get a HEAVY car with 20" rims and 29" tires out of the hole. I'm not surprised you can cut better in a car weighing half as much with more power and a stickier tire.

I have no doubt you could muster a blistering 13.4-5 in a stock SS with little problem...Probably faster in an AUTO!

Same reason a LS1 with a cam can't outpower a well put together 331cid 5.0

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :biggrinan


im sorry that you think a 5.0 (331 = 5.4 btw) with an alphabet cam is impressive. esp an E303.

you people are pretty dense.. forget it..

You honestly need to GTFO. You have no idea what you are talking about. Yes I have ran my grand am to a 2.0 60' but honestly after that no so much.

I do not think you understand what you are talking about or trying to say, and should be treated as such.

yea we can argue about put a blower on the SS and see what happens but what if you add displacement to the cobras motor to bring it up to a 6.2L then what?

I literally have nothing to say about 75% of the shit said in this thread... But yes, Cobra is lighter with a better power/torque curve.

yea we can argue about put a blower on the SS and see what happens but what if you add displacement to the cobras motor to bring it up to a 6.2L then what?

i thought 5.4L was the max on an 03 cobra motor?

Theoretical question... But technically they do have larger modular blocks you could use (aftermarket).

Theoretical question... But technically they do have larger modular blocks you could use (aftermarket).


i was just asking about an 03 motor. i dont want to turn this into a 50 pg. argument lol.

Hey sciff since you are such a bad ass driver then why do you have a 120 mph trap speed and an et of only 11.68 to go with it?

stupid thread. cobras were underrated and lighter. our new pig has 20" tires creating even more traction issues. and dont compare peak numbers only. a motor with a blower on it will have a completely different power curve than a n/a motor. peak numbers can only get you so far.


and whoever compared prices, add inflation to the Cobra's price.

Cobra has been out for 7 years...I can't believe there's still this much ignorance about them.


(that goes for LS1 Z vs. LS1 ss's/WS6 vs. Corvette too BTW).