Generation IV Internal Engine - Why did you buy the engine you have?

Im planning a project of installing a LS engine in a '69 camaro. I do not want to do the job twice and money is always a concern. Im leaning towards a LS2/T56 out of a GTO but wanted opinions of others here.

Why did you buy what you have? By this I mean if you build a ls1 and add a supercharger, could you have been in it cheaper buying a LS7? I want the best, most reliable starting point but unsure with all the avail engines out there. The LS1 parts are more avail and add the LS6 intake/Heads and theres a really nice combo. Or, buy the LS2 for more money and have the added cubic inches but is the extra money spent worth it?

Im only worried about the ETC on the LS2 and wiring it up with the pedals out of the GTO. Besides that, it seems that by face value the LS2 would be the better choice any day over the LS1/6.

If Im mistaken or misguided PLEASE point it out!! I just dont want to buy the engine and wish later I would have went another route even thought anything would be better that the empty engine compartment thats there now.

Also, I would like to run a aftermarket fuel management system with this engine so i would not be restricted by the factory computer. Question is, whats the difference (lets hypothetically use F.A.S.T. controller) between the LS1 and LS6 management system. Being that if I start with the base LS1 engine, could I upgrade to a LS6 motor later and not have to change computers?

I have so many questions about this project. I know that it will be worth it in the end, but being my first project without a carburetor scares the crap out of me. Thanks in advance for all your help!!!

Robert

I only had a set amount of money...and I didn't just want to buy an engine. I wanted a complete car. I bought everything you see in my sig all at one time. So I only had so much for the powerplant.

So I'll ask first:
What are your goals and main use for the car?
How much money do you have set aside to spend right now on this entire project?

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Main use would be a weekend cruiser with estimated 450 hp. I think of it as "novice touring" instead of Pro touring.:D I want all the benefits of the fuel injection, great stance and sound. Im not pulling 1g's on skid or even entering in car shows.

As of now about $5,000 aside but would wait a little longer for a better deal to keep from doing it twice. I would like the engine/T56 combo at all posssible.

Im wondering what combo everyone started with and why. Why LS6 instead of LS1. Why LS1 instead of spending more for the LS2 and does it really make that big of a difference.

Thanks!!

Main use would be a weekend cruiser with estimated 450 hp. I think of it as "novice touring" instead of Pro touring.:D I want all the benefits of the fuel injection, great stance and sound. Im not pulling 1g's on skid or even entering in car shows.

As of now about $5,000 aside but would wait a little longer for a better deal to keep from doing it twice. I would like the engine/T56 combo at all posssible.

Im wondering what combo everyone started with and why. Why LS6 instead of LS1. Why LS1 instead of spending more for the LS2 and does it really make that big of a difference.

Thanks!!

IMO the ls2 is not worth it. if you can get it for the same price....sure. but the ls2 makes only a slight bit more power and it also in most cases is a iron block and the added power barely offsets the weight. i would get a ls1/t-56 dropout with complete wiring harness. i would add a mid 22X/22X .590/.590 ish cam for a good streetable cam..and depending on wether you want 450 at crank or wheels, would add AFR 205 heads or just stick with the stockers. Also a ls6 is only a ls1 with better heads and cam from the factory....just get a ls1 and add aftermarket H/C and be better than the factory ls6 for less money probley.

I think you are heading down the right track! buy a complete low mileage LS2 take-out from a late model car, and you can't go wrong. The DBW throttle is a piece of cake, and the engine will makes gobs of power and torque without even opening the engine up! All LS2 engines are aluminum blocks. There are 6.0 truck blocks that are cast-iron, but they won't hold a candle to a LS2 without some internal work. Sure, you can piece it together from bits an pieces from here and there, but you will be money and aggravation ahead if you just buy a complete pull-out with all the pieces you will need.


Regards, John McGraw

Main use would be a weekend cruiser with estimated 450 hp. I think of it as "novice touring" instead of Pro touring.:D I want all the benefits of the fuel injection, great stance and sound. Im not pulling 1g's on skid or even entering in car shows.

As of now about $5,000 aside but would wait a little longer for a better deal to keep from doing it twice. I would like the engine/T56 combo at all posssible.

Im wondering what combo everyone started with and why. Why LS6 instead of LS1. Why LS1 instead of spending more for the LS2 and does it really make that big of a difference.

Thanks!!

450 RWHP isn't much to ask. You can do that easily with a stock cubed LS1/LS6/LS2...your choice. Might as well buy an old LS1/LS6 real cheap. LS2 has a little more cubes. They will handle that power level without any issues and last forever.

Good heads/cam/LT's and some bolt-ons and you're there.

Might be able to do the whole engine for $5,000, maybe. I don't know how much those tranny's cost.

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I blew my original engine so i had to make the same decision, i went with an ls1 because it was my cheapest route and i could resuse most my stock parts. I wish i could have done an LS3 swap because they can make so much more power with better flowing heads and intakes and the added cubes will only help.

Main use would be a weekend cruiser with estimated 450 hp. I think of it as "novice touring" instead of Pro touring.:D I want all the benefits of the fuel injection, great stance and sound. Im not pulling 1g's on skid or even entering in car shows.

As of now about $5,000 aside but would wait a little longer for a better deal to keep from doing it twice. I would like the engine/T56 combo at all posssible.

Im wondering what combo everyone started with and why. Why LS6 instead of LS1. Why LS1 instead of spending more for the LS2 and does it really make that big of a difference.

Thanks!!

LS1 was first, then the LS6 then the LS2. As one came out the other got cheaper to buy.

450 rwhp can be had with any of the above.. although the bigger the better IMO. A 403 or 408 cid will make 450 to the wheels easier than a 346 will.

At 5k you could find a take out LS2 with trans, slap some heads on it and a medium cam and have the 450 and have it be reasonable to drive. This would be the best route to go if you don't have an existing LSx. You will need all the accessories and brackets and sensors and such so a take out engine would be best.

Some mean power that i can also spray on and maintain a 6 speed which will be a TR6060. And be in the low nines at full weight, maybe an 8.9 with alot of luck.
But if i were to do it again i would do a 364 with an APS w/ LG upgrade.

I have been watching the local sales ad as well as calling the salvage yards near me. I came across a guy that pulled the LS1 out of the '01 vette because is was "making a noise" and wants $1,000 obo.

I have rebulit many SBC and BBC so Im not worried about taking apart an older engine but this would be my first LS1 rebuild. Im assuming it would have the LS6 intake and I would replace the cam anyways as well as whatever may be damaged.

1st question is this '01 LS1 w/ LS6 intake and me replacing the cam......only leaves the heads being the difference between it and a LS6?

Next I believe I can get it for around $600. Since Im starting a project that will require adapting this engine into a '69 camaro am i better off waiting for a pullout of engine/trans with all accessories, wiring, computer? I would love a good deal on a engine, but it seems like this would be a "buy it and store it until needed" instead of a "buy it and then buy every other part your going to need."

This is my first project so Im looking for what would the the most cost effective. THANKS!!!!!

most cost effective is going to be buying a good working engine and trans and ecu combo. Someone who took it all out for a turbo. Stay away from known trouble engines.. like that LS1... or you will end up spending more than you need to.

Its not just like rebuilding a sbc or bbc either, it's amazing how many shops with supposed good reputations build them wrong, we see some things that other shops do or don't do that you would never believe :jest:

But back on topic... keep looking for a complete take out and don't bother with anything that might be suspect. Far to many good deals on used to settle for something suspect. IF your buying with the intention to repair you might as well buy a bare iron block for $50 form a junkyard and do a 408 yourself and come out with a better engine for about the same money.

Just an update its a LS1 of of a November of 2000 corvette. Complete with no accessories with metal in the oil pan. Seller has already bought another engine and wants $600 for this one.

I think Im tempted because I have no starting point yet.

$600 is a lof of money for a used cylinder case, I've got an ls1 block right here I'll sell you for that much :jest:

Slow down !! you will spend more than you need to by rushing this. Dont buy that, it's not worth $600 not knowing what is wrong with it. Buy a truck block for $50 and start from there.

You can buy a new 6.0 iron block from Scoggins for $733 and IMO would be better than spending $600 on a 2000 LS1 with metal shavings. Your not going to run it the way it is and a 408/364 will be better than a 346/383... for about the same money by the time your done.

BUT... best of all is to keep looking for a complete take out with all the bells and whistles for 5k and be done with it.

^what that guy said. 600 is way to much for an engine that needs a total rebuild. Buy a complete setup from a wrecked car (computer, wiring harness, and accessories) it will be much less headache.

I too am building a 69 and looking for a ls2 t56 set up thanks for the comments every time i talk to anyone even ford people they say the new technology is much better than the old carburated stuff will continue to listen thanks for asking the right questions

As an owner of 69 and 99 Camaros I would comment that old carburated stuff can be tuned very well and make significant power. The downfall of older stuff is in gas mileage and part throttle response.

Is your $5000 budget for everything or engine/trans only. You have a lot of other items to buy to put LS into the 69 - fuel system, headers, motor mounts, cross-member, hydraulic clutch set-up, drive shaft & yoke, accessory brackets etc - these will eat up more money than you might expect. Really should get this all priced out up front to see what is left on your budget.

Are you looking for 450 hp or 450 rwhp? Big difference. If you are going for latter, hope your 69 came with a 12 bolt from factory.

Started with an LS1, upgraded to an LS6 when it came out and then stepped up to the LS7 when it came out!

Started with an LS1, upgraded to an LS6 when it came out and then stepped up to the LS7 when it came out!

Cool car man. Always liked those. My girlfriend back in 1988 had an all white one (black accents). Just stock pretty slow, but I always said to her and her dad it would be a great car to mod and make fast. Nice big comfortable car that hauls ass....best of both worlds.

I'd like to find one of those white ones and do a 1,000 RWHP big single turbo set up for the street. But I haven;t seen those things for sale since then.

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Started with an LS1, upgraded to an LS6 when it came out and then stepped up to the LS7 when it came out!

John that car is SICK! Perfect choice for a retrofit

I decided on a 408. I decided I wanted boost over nitrous because in the end nitrous never stops costing money, also you run the risk of nitrous explosions. Another reason I decided to go that route is I wanted an iron block not only to hold the boost but you can pick up the LQ4 blocks up all day long for 200-300 bucks.

I wanted something that would last me for the next 20 years. I dont have to worry about re-sleeving an iron block and I dont have to worry about boost cracking an iron block.

I also went with the L92 heads and L76 intake. Huge performance gains over the LS6 stuff and its a hell of alot cheaper. You dont need a fast intake to get a 90mm throttle body and the heads and intake out of the box flow way better than the LS6 stuff.

I got a fully balanced rotating assembly forged everything, Eagle rods, JE pistons and 4" eagle stroker crankshaft for $1500 off of a corvette forum.

So thats why I have gone the route I did. Would I turn around and do it another way?
No way...

Just wanted to add that LQ4 block I bought was an assembled stock truck block with 60k miles and a busted ring landing. I sold the heads for 200 and the crank for 100 in the parts section here. So I pretty much got the block for free. Boost guys like those heads because of the larger combustion chambers but had some dished pistons so I could get away with using the L92/LS3 corvette heads. My compression ratio is 9.37:1

Started with an LS1, upgraded to an LS6 when it came out and then stepped up to the LS7 when it came out!


I would like to go that route. Start with the LS1 and get the bugs worked out then later change to LS2 or LS6. When you change engines, what else electrical did you have to change. Would it have been more cost effective to save and start with the LS6?

Or....if you run an aftermarket fuel management system can you reprogram the computer for the updated engine?

Thanks!!

Just find a ls6/t56 combo and stick a nice cam in it and call it a day all for probably $2000-$2500, but everything else will cost more i.e. headers, etc...

Would it have been more cost effective to save and start with the LS6?In my case I bought the LS1 motor before the LS6 came out otherwise I would have just bought the LS6 the first time.

In your case I would skip the LS2 and go directly to an LS3 or L92 derivative and just keep the stock computer. You can push 500RWHP with the right cam and milled stock unported heads. Unless you have a specific need to individually tailor fuel by cylinder or some obscure need then using HPTuners and the OEM PCM is more than you'll ever need. This way you'll save money right out of the box and no need to upgrade unless you want to enlarge your motor or stroke it.

Have Speartech set you up with a harness and you'll virtually be plug and play and will never think about a carb again! It's intimidating at first but you'll learn quick with your laptop and all of the support here and HTP's website, good luck.

I picked up a LY6 for $1400 with 30,000M. I wanted good power with better milage than my 454.

I'd personally get a LY6. I see them going for $1400-2000 w/10K-30K miles. I plan on keeping the VVT and eventualy going with a MAST LY6VVT cam. You can always ditch the VVT and run a bigger cam. Remember. these come with the L92 head from the factory.

Just my .02