Automotive News, Media & Press - New Camaro Leak!

http://www.edc.ca/prodserv/automotive/pdf/cleveland_e.pdf

It takes a second to load, but check out page 63. :)

Thanks to _Zac for the link. He's such a toolbag.

What about the Trusty T/A??????

hey Ben..... I"M RICH B"TICH

2007, 2008...... too FAR AWAY. but good. building, waiting, preparing to strike. heheheehe

What about the Trusty T/A??????

Yeah where's the 'bird? :)

Hahah..I posted this yesterday here lol. I am glad this is getting around, although the thread I got it from from cz28 seems to be gone

according to that chart the camaro will be sharing a platform with the GTO, the Grand Prix, the impala, the buick roadmaster, and a new buick. looks like they are gonna give us a sport coupe as opposed to a high-number sports car. which is bad news for the bird :( lets just hope they don't butcher the styling of the camaro.

Yeah where's the 'bird? :)

Lutz said that was dead :(

God I hate presentations liek that. I see them all the time in internal product-developmet meetings. Typical view of an engineer/accountant trying to make a succesful product. "if we just control our supplier costs and push for efficiency then we won't be able to make the cars fast enough to meet demand".

Give me a break.. This slide about made me puke

Things Customers Care About These Days
•Price
•Price
•Price
•Price…and
•Design integration with their systems
•Program management and launch execution
•Increased speed of product development
•Innovation in product design
•The right tool for the right volumes What a hunk of crap. If I care about Price I'll buy a Neon. No, I will(did) pay *more* for a car that meets my needs and doesn't feel like a cheap tin can made from suppliers pushed to the point of breaking.
You’re not selling tooling; you are
selling:
•Design expertise and knowledge
•Speed to market
•Production process capability and
stability
•Risk reductionI can honestly say not one of those factors has *Ever* entered my mind during a car purchase.

The good that did come out of that slide show was this.. Notice the GP is finally going RWD! WOO HOO!
GM Buick Roadmaster Zeta - 2006
GM Buick Velite Zeta - 2007
GM Pontiac Grand Prix Zeta - 2007
GM Pontiac GTO Zeta - 2007

GM Chevrolet Camaro Zeta
GM Chevrolet Impala Zeta - 2008
GM Chevrolet Monte Carlo Zeta - 2009

GM Cadillac CTS Sigma - 2007

Lutz said that was dead :(

I heard him say that too......instead he crams the Solstice down our throats.

I heard him say that too......instead he crams the Solstice down our throats.

I'm about to cram something down Lutz's wife's throat if he doesn't give me a $20-25k LS2 coupe car, no matter what the hell its called.

Can the person who started this thread delete it? The info was not supposed to be leaked and if you follow cz28.com 5th gen area, you would now why. So I am asking if one of the moderators or the thread starter to delete the thread.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324652

This post sort of sums up why.

Can the person who started this thread delete it? The info was not supposed to be leaked and if you follow cz28.com 5th gen area, you would now why. So I am asking if one of the moderators or the thread starter to delete the thread.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324652

This post sort of sums up why.


:secret:

I'm about to cram something down Lutz's wife's throat if he doesn't give me a $20-25k LS2 coupe car, no matter what the hell its called.

Get it ready, that's not likely going to happen. Maybe $25k-$35k. :jest:

What exactly is the ZETA? Anyone that knows please enlighten me.

Zeta is the platform which will underpin the next gen VE Commodore as well as the other products listed in this thread and on that list. It is primarily RWD although I believe it can accomodate AWD as well as Holden will need an AWD platform to underpin its current crop of AWD products based on the VY/VZ platform and Lutz is also considering using Zeta to underpin the next Saab 9-5 which according to him is a viable alternative to Epsilon as Saabs must be FWD or AWD.

There are a couple of cars on there that will be interesting to see what they do with as they come back, this is good news for sure. cz28.com is a joke, do you really think GM is going to say, oh my god Bob they found out we're gonna re-introduce the Camaro, we better just cancel the whole project, not to mention they have a forum dedicated to just that, spy shots etc...I understand the legal implications but just delete any threads that pop up with that if you're worried about GM Suing.

That thread on Cz28.com is no joke. Scott Settlemire , one of the corporate GM executives , was on that website under the username "Red Planet". He posted there often and tried to listen to the enthusiasts' wants and desires in a performance car. After the Z06 fiasco , just being there jeopardized his position at GM and he was even looked at as a source of the leak by GM bigwigs. It wasn't him but he just about lost his job. Because of a stupid leak , they lost someone who could have been in more tune with what we wanted with the new Camaro.Because of someone's selfish want to be in the spotlight , a really good guy just about had his livelyhood screwed up. Not cool. I also request this thread be removed before any more damage is caused. It's not stupid , it could save the poster and the owners of this website from a lawsuit.

Glove,
CZ28.com has close ties with GM that they do not want to endanger. I can understand and respect what Jason Debler is trying to do there (FWIW Jason and I go back to 1994 when we were both members of the F-Body.org mailing list) Despite my own atempts at forming a closer relationship with GM marketing, and my own conversations with Scott Settlemier LS1Tech is not as close to our manufacturer as say VWvortex is to VW or Audi World is to Audi. Ford and GM (in general) still have a very adversarial relationship with the online communities. Specific individuals like Scott are trying to work with us.

I will take it up with the other admins though.

-Adam

I'm not deleting it.

Connect the dots. If the GTO is made here in the near future, then we will see other vehicles made off of that platform for Chevrolet and Buick. And the Zeta platform is the only platform in GM that could be used for a Camaro.

If GM was hip, they'd take like a bunch of our guys to be in a design clinic, we are the folks who will buy the car and modify it. Look at how Ford rolled out the new Mustang, and also let the aftermarket swarm over them. Too bad a lot of the GM guys are old and out of touch. Hopefully the Camaro will be okay looking and show some verve.

I've met Settlemire a number of times, and he's a nice guy, but his little hints were BS and I got tired of that stuff, IMO, if you can't tell me something then don't hint around and be like that.

ADMIN

Oh and here is another way to track new cars, talk to contacts who work for suppliers and find out if they have been asked to bid on anything sounding like a Camaro. There is some Zeta sounding RWD stuff out there but it all points to 2007 which looks like a big rollout year for GM.

Alright thanks for letting me know why though guys :)

Thanks for the info. I hope that if the Camaro comes back it will still be the unique car that it always was. I have a feeling that they are going to target a different age group and will dissapoint many of us.

looks like somebody changed the source...

Nope....I didn't sign off because someone at GM thought I posted the pictures. Quite frankly, I am very comfortable with anything I put on the internet...and I assume that if I put it out there, I'd better be comfortable with it on the front page of the New York Times.

I signed off because of a few things...one being bad behavior. When civility goes out the window, I leave. I don't expect anyone to cowtow to GM...but when people are so off base with accusations...and won't listen...esp. to those who know what they're talking about.....then I simply log off.

Additionally, I had some problems with people who were defending those who stole information from GM. I'd have the same problem with them if they stole from Ford or DCX. There is NOTHING wrong with spy pics...if you're driving down the road and you see a new car that hasn't been seen yet...you're perfectly right in snapping and posting away....however, when there is a stolen document....or when documents which are proprietary.....and they're posted on a sight..and it can affect the future of that company...or it's suppliers....or employees of the company or supplier, I draw the line. It's called "ethics 101"

And...by the way...there are a couple of good reasons why GM is not talking about a new Camaro. Read my book in a couple of years and you'll then understand. If you don't want to keep the faith, or believe me, that's your perogative.

Last...a Camaro MUST have a muscular V8 engine..it MUST be RWD...it MUST look like a Camaro...it MUST sound like a Camaro...it MUST stick to the road like velcro...and it MUST do that at a Chevrolet price..........nuff said!

wow this is all gay... post the damn 5th gen camaro pics as much as u want.. i read that on cz28.com and was shocked at how everyone seemed to have got bent out of shape.. becuase of this the guy that posted it on our homeboard.. www.scfyb.com felt he had to delete it and i just now got to view it many days later.. hmm if a camaro is coming out.. which needs to be about 2006 at the latest... then i just might be able to wait to buy another car knowing that.. so might many others.. keeping the faith isn't a bad thing.. cuase lets face it if we want an american rwd v8 for around 25k what are we going to buy thats not a sedan or a gto? which is a family/gm's bid to compete with m3/m5??? ill tell u what we'd be forced to buy.. mustangs... i picked up my 02 camaro new in nov 02.. b/c they dont sale camaros anymore and most of there cars are pos now, i didn't even look at a chevy trucks and bought a dodge! and my uncle manages a chevrolet dealership that has about 20 new corvettes on the lot... think they want the camaro back??? yes! if anyone doesn't like this post they can sue me if they like.. but ill post whatever i want to post and im not trying to start trouble but if i had posted it and it had been ask of me to remove it and someone had told me i could be sued.... id say kiss my ass!

Good thinking, redrocket , I'm sure a judge in civil court would understand your line of reasoning here. Posting privileged info is a big no-no. I want nothing more to do with this thread, carry on.

Sometimes its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but its there .. Yes, it sucks when someone you KNOW has the information you badly want can only tell you "trust me." BUT THAT, my friends, is the way it is. Its the way it has to be. I don't like it either, I'd love to say "Hey Scott, if we're going to be seeing a new Camaro, can I get some pictures?" and then magically have them show up in my inbox. I know that isn't going to happen. I know there isn't jack I can do to make it happen. I STILL wish it COULD happen, but it won't.

There's really two issues here that we need to separate from each other. The first is "Is there a new Camaro, Z/06, 7.0L LS7, etc." The second is "Who cares that people posted stolen documents on the internet?" The first type of question we all want to know -- and we tend to find the answers eventually, if we look and listen well enough ;) The second one is a matter or morality and integrity. If someone is dumb enough to risk their jobs by posting internal documentation, photos, or other "privileged" information, that is their business. I certainly don't think its right or smart, and while I enjoy seeing "sneak peek" information like everyone else it'd be a right shame for that information to disappear entirely because GM can't trust its partners. It'd be worse for information leaks to disrupt certain actions and processes to the point it has the potential to disrupt the delivery of the very thing we want the most -- A GM RWD car with a classic nameplate, big V8 and bad ass looks.

As moderator of this forum here are my two cents.

1.) If someone uploads a document onto the LS1Tech server that is clearly property of General Motors that says "not for distribution" etc, I will delete it.

2.) You can tell people where such information is (that is a link). I will use my best judgement on whether or not it's appropriate. If GM contacts me personally asking me to remove information I most liekly will....no calls yet.

3.) Neither LS1Tech nor Adam have signed a waiver of rights giving GM jurisdiction over our actions, so unless I am receiving some benefit from GM (i.e. a paycheck) then I have no reason to forfeit my rights to talk about future models and information about future models.

4.) If a website posts "please do not hot link to this photo, just provide a link" or similar on their article or photo I will respect that and just provide a link.

Keep in mind under US copyright law you can republish copyrighted material for the purpose of critical analysis of such material. That is I can publish a copyrighted photo to critically analyze the contents of the photo, I cannot republish a copyrighted photo for the purposes of redistribution, profit, etc. Thankfully that's one section of "Fair Use" the RIAA hasn't stripped from us yet.

Now off the subject of cars for a second in my time at AT&T I handled various levels of "secret" information. Now I have agreements in place with AT&T where I have forfeited my rights in order to be privy to such information. Included repercussions are agreeing to be sued, loosing my job and being financially accountable to damages. It's up to me to decide if I want to risk those repercussions to "leak" info (to what end I would never know). But if I did, those that use the information did not make arrangements with AT&T and do not hold the level of accountability that I would.

Here is the thing though if I said "AT&T is going to release OC768 DWDM next year" I could be telling the truth I could be lying, I could be disseminating proprietary info, I might not be. You don't know, and you don't have an obligation to AT&T to "control the leak" I do.

-Adam

PS
http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11536-217530-1535/camaro1.jpg

:D

All this talk of morals and ethics... I am getting sleepy.

Shinkaze those pics are a first for me. The car in it has some resemblence to the 1st gen but it apepars a bit narrow tracked, like ti should be wider. Also, if GM produced that, I think we all know that they would not be sitting on rims that large and a better perspective would be with much more air in the wheel well. Nice pic though :cheers:

wow this is all gay... post the damn 5th gen camaro pics as much as u want.. i read that on cz28.com and was shocked at how everyone seemed to have got bent out of shape.. becuase of this the guy that posted it on our homeboard.. www.scfyb.com felt he had to delete it and i just now got to view it many days later.. hmm if a camaro is coming out.. which needs to be about 2006 at the latest... then i just might be able to wait to buy another car knowing that.. so might many others.. keeping the faith isn't a bad thing.. cuase lets face it if we want an american rwd v8 for around 25k what are we going to buy thats not a sedan or a gto? which is a family/gm's bid to compete with m3/m5??? ill tell u what we'd be forced to buy.. mustangs... i picked up my 02 camaro new in nov 02.. b/c they dont sale camaros anymore and most of there cars are pos now, i didn't even look at a chevy trucks and bought a dodge! and my uncle manages a chevrolet dealership that has about 20 new corvettes on the lot... think they want the camaro back??? yes! if anyone doesn't like this post they can sue me if they like.. but ill post whatever i want to post and im not trying to start trouble but if i had posted it and it had been ask of me to remove it and someone had told me i could be sued.... id say kiss my ass!


OK....so....perhaps you can explain what the 'Sarbanes-Oxley" Act is......

Please explain what this law is...and then why you would break that law......

I'm not flaming you, but perhaps you need to re-read your post. Most of what's in there we already know....other than you'd post pictures apparently without regard to consequences...and perhaps you have a problem with Gays???

Sarbanes-Oxley is an act that requires companies to formally sign off on their financials. It was designed to push accountability to a higher levels of the corporate officers of a company. So if I was the CFO and signed off on the numbers, I can be prosecuted if the number lately turn out to be fraudulent.

I really like those pics! I like the rear and the side views and the front view only needs headlights (For syling and legal reasons) to be a Camaro!

GM has betrayed us and that pic looks like crap. I just got a Stang and will get a Cobra when I finish school. Ford has stayed loyal to the faith GM has not. Plus, I like my Stang as much as my Z.

Thanks for the info. I hope that if the Camaro comes back it will still be the unique car that it always was. I have a feeling that they are going to target a different age group and will dissapoint many of us.

I have a feeling that they are going to target a different age group and will dissapoint many of us.

>>>>> :stupid:

Sarbanes-Oxley is an act that requires companies to formally sign off on their financials. It was designed to push accountability to a higher levels of the corporate officers of a company. So if I was the CFO and signed off on the numbers, I can be prosecuted if the number lately turn out to be fraudulent.

partially right...however it also provides that any employee that suspects thta others within the company are defrauding the stockholder ..OR ...does not take immediate action to preserve shareholder value can be prosecuted....if it is demonstrated in any way that proprietary information is used in any way to harm the company and thereby the shareholder.......an employee can be prosecuted.

I have a feeling that they are going to target a different age group and will dissapoint many of us.

>>>>> :stupid:
Its a possibility :(

GM's Australian outfit may end up turning the tide for the entire company. :cheers:

Let the whining about the foreign engineering and platform sharing begin. :hail:

I have a feeling that they are going to target a different age group and will dissapoint many of us.

>>>>> :stupid:

Don't bet on it!

Don't bet on it!
You tell them S.S lol

:angel:

Don't bet on it!Gm has other products (at last) to target other demographics with. CTS-V on top, GTO in the Middle and Camaro on the bottom. I myself came very close to getting the CTS-V over the M3, but in the end the M was more "Me". (because it's more performance focused....kinda like a German-take on a Camaro...don't tell the other bimmer owners I said that they'll hunt me down like a witch).

At any rate, I think the Camaro's largest problem was its price slipped up too high in the late 90's Suddenly it was being sold alongside nicer more upscale coupes from Germany and Japan. Conversly, I remember being in highschool and seeing a third Gen Camaro RS new on a dealer lot and actually being able to swing payments on a 5.0 Liter TBI with a crappy part-time job. Don't know too many high school kids that could have paid for an LS1 with a part time high school job. Nowadays the Cavalier Coupe...er...uhm....Cobalt fills that role.

So if the Camaro still means cheap performance, I'll be curious to see how much $$ cheap is nowadays.

-Adam

I would just like to add the Ford is planning to offer optional live axle or independant rear suspension on the Mustang....

GM could ya? Maybe? Wouldnt it be nice to have this on the checklist when ordering your '07 Camaro?

[ ] 4.8L LS4 275 HP $900
[ ] 5.3L LS5? 315 HP $1200
[ ] 6.0L LS2 400 HP $1500
[ ] LS7 500 HP $???

[ ] Live Axle $0
[ ] Independant $???

[ ] 5 speed auto $1000
[ ] 6 speed manual $0
[ ] 6 speed auto F1 style $1500-$2000?

On top of that, those HP numbers should be with factory restrictive stuff(as normal) and they should offer optional "accessories" as factory equipment.

Things us LS1 guys had to piece together.

[ ] High flow air lid w/ filter $125 for example

Other stuff like Headers or at least shorties could be available....even aftermarket brands maybe...Could you imagine checking a box that said "Hooker Catback"?

I'd be willing to pay a little extra for having it installed AFTER(before would be cool but I doubt GM would do that) ordering the car so long as it doesnt void the warranty on the rest of the car and it can pass emissions for all those who care.(not me)

I think thats reasonable. GM rakes in more and different customers, sells a bunch of Camaros/whatever else they make aftermarket for, make $$ off the extra parts,make $$ off the labor for the installation of said parts, make money off charging me extra $$ for the warranty, and thousands of happy customers will have a factory ride with the parts they want with a warranty. Granted you pay a ton more money short term but when the time comes to sell it it doesnt say "1999 Camaro, mint, highly modified, 500 HP, tons of $$ and time invested, $15000" it says "1999 Camaro, 500 HP stock, special order, $25000" (Just an example) Its original, not pieced togther so its more desirable. More expensive but more desirable and most of all....financeable!

DCX is offering quite enticing stuff over there....lots of aftermarket goodies. I think GM will follow in some form or another....I just hope its for a good price. :)

-Chris S.

..So if the Camaro still means cheap performance, I'll be curious to see how much $$ cheap is nowadays.

-Adam

Took thes words right outta my mouth!

I would no doubt buy the top model but I hope they make it affordable for everybody so they SELL in high numbers to pay for the future Camaros!

Oh and here is another way to track new cars, talk to contacts who work for suppliers and find out if they have been asked to bid on anything sounding like a Camaro. There is some Zeta sounding RWD stuff out there but it all points to 2007 which looks like a big rollout year for GM.


Well for me Lutz summed it all up: The Firebirds days are over.

Which basically makes me lose all interest. I'm happy that they are bringing the Camaro back for 2008, but again here is stupidity 41st anniversary, SERIOUSLY who the hell makes a 41st anniversary car?

GM has turned away a hell of a lot of loyalists. The Mustang is growing in popularity, and I'm going to be forced to buy a GTO.

Actually maybe they will bring the firebird back for a 53rd anniversary that makes sense for GM.

Well for me Lutz summed it all up: The Firebirds days are over.

Which basically makes me lose all interest. I'm happy that they are bringing the Camaro back for 2008, but again here is stupidity 41st anniversary, SERIOUSLY who the hell makes a 41st anniversary car?

GM has turned away a hell of a lot of loyalists. The Mustang is growing in popularity, and I'm going to be forced to buy a GTO.

Actually maybe they will bring the firebird back for a 53rd anniversary that makes sense for GM.Agreed, I've never been a Camaro loyalist, but have always loved the Firebird (owned 3 of them). While the GTO has heritage.....10 years of heritage..... The Firebird has carried the Pontiac Torch much longer (35 years) and much brighter than the GTO. So I have about as much brand loyalty to GTO as I do to Infiniti G35.... and the Infiniti Dealerships and service department make you feel like you paid $30K+ for a car. Better service, nicer sales offices, better loaner cars.

I recently took my Bimmer in for service and the Valet met me at the front with keys to a new 5-series while my M was down. Whenever I took my Trans Am in for service I was lucky to get even a Sunbird, and actually had to a file a couple of complaints when the service department refused to pay for loaner for me.

So I would buy another Pontiac "in spite of" the dealership experience. I would buy another BMW/Infiniti/Mercedes because of the dealership experience.

GM is definitely behind in the dealer experience. When I bought my GTO, things were pretty normal. But when it had to go in for service (minor - failed battery) they picked up the car but didn't offer me as much as a ride back to the dealership. They called when the car was complete, but I had to get someone to bring me up there so I could get my car.

I would just like to add the Ford is planning to offer optional live axle or independant rear suspension on the Mustang....

GM could ya? Maybe? Wouldnt it be nice to have this on the checklist when ordering your '07 Camaro?

[ ] 4.8L LS4 275 HP $900
[ ] 5.3L LS5? 315 HP $1200
[ ] 6.0L LS2 400 HP $1500
[ ] LS7 500 HP $???

[ ] Live Axle $0
[ ] Independant $???

[ ] 5 speed auto $1000
[ ] 6 speed manual $0
[ ] 6 speed auto F1 style $1500-$2000?

On top of that, those HP numbers should be with factory restrictive stuff(as normal) and they should offer optional "accessories" as factory equipment.

Things us LS1 guys had to piece together.

[ ] High flow air lid w/ filter $125 for example

Other stuff like Headers or at least shorties could be available....even aftermarket brands maybe...Could you imagine checking a box that said "Hooker Catback"?

I'd be willing to pay a little extra for having it installed AFTER(before would be cool but I doubt GM would do that) ordering the car so long as it doesnt void the warranty on the rest of the car and it can pass emissions for all those who care.(not me)

I think thats reasonable. GM rakes in more and different customers, sells a bunch of Camaros/whatever else they make aftermarket for, make $$ off the extra parts,make $$ off the labor for the installation of said parts, make money off charging me extra $$ for the warranty, and thousands of happy customers will have a factory ride with the parts they want with a warranty. Granted you pay a ton more money short term but when the time comes to sell it it doesnt say "1999 Camaro, mint, highly modified, 500 HP, tons of $$ and time invested, $15000" it says "1999 Camaro, 500 HP stock, special order, $25000" (Just an example) Its original, not pieced togther so its more desirable. More expensive but more desirable and most of all....financeable!

DCX is offering quite enticing stuff over there....lots of aftermarket goodies. I think GM will follow in some form or another....I just hope its for a good price. :)

-Chris S.

i totally agree! it wouldn't cost them much money to use engine/tranny packages already offered in their parts bin. imagine what the age group appeal would be if you could order a sub-300 hp v8 for like low-20k or a 500hp v8 with ISP and a great suspension package for about high 30k - low 40k. with of course some option packages in between. isn't that what the original camaros were like anyways?

GM is definitely behind in the dealer experience. When I bought my GTO, things were pretty normal. But when it had to go in for service (minor - failed battery) they picked up the car but didn't offer me as much as a ride back to the dealership. They called when the car was complete, but I had to get someone to bring me up there so I could get my car.I think it's a difference in philosphy as much as anything. My experience with Pontiac service has been one of "I'm inflicting hassel (Service) on Pontiac"...that "this is a cost-center". Whereas my experience with BMW has been "we're sorry we (BMW) inflicted this hassel on you (Adam), Maybe now is a chance to do some presales work, upselling you to a 5-series". I've seen this when friends take their Infinitis and VWs in as well. That said I had a Trans Am so there were no more high performance models to "upsell" me on, but tht doesn't mean I won't buy something for my wife and one day kids. Anyhow Others may have better experiences, but so far I'm 0 for 4 working with dealerships.

The worst is when I took my TA in for a faulty cruise control module and the dealer refused to work on it because "you have Vette Wheels and Traction bars (Metco LCAs) on that car... you're hot rodding it and we don't want to touch it". Nevermind that is a violation of the Magnusson-Moss act, I ended up just taking it to another dealership rather than having to escalate yet another service issue with Pontiac..... Of course the second dealership gave me hell too, and refused to give me a loaner "because we're doing you a favor working on the car under warranty in the first place". You would think these people do the work for freee if it's under warranty...sheesh!

-Adam

i totally agree! it wouldn't cost them much money to use engine/tranny packages already offered in their parts bin. imagine what the age group appeal would be if you could order a sub-300 hp v8 for like low-20k or a 500hp v8 with ISP and a great suspension package for about high 30k - low 40k. with of course some option packages in between. isn't that what the original camaros were like anyways?Sheesh, when I bought my TA you could buy a LS1 Z28 for $20K flat. I got my Trans Am for $23K. Heck I remember seeing a WS6 LS1 Formula for $23K too.

Maybe my income just isn't keeping up with inflation, but V8 "pony cars" starting at $25K sounds expensive to me.

-Adam

I DID have a pretty good experience with my Formula, a few years ago. I brought the car in for a seized A/C compressor, but I was covered by my extended warranty -- not GM's. I talked to the service writer and gave him the option to decline work on the car based on the modifications (heads, cam, intake, headers, 12 bolt, springs, shocks, subframes, etc. etc. etc.) He listened to my detailed list of mods, and at the end politely said "thanks for telling me, but I'll fix it . None of those mods affect the A/C compressor." I got a dealer shuttle ride to work, but still had to find my own way back.

The ONLY time I got a loaner car from Pontiac was when I brought the car in with 5000 miles, and a bad case of gear whine (bearings, actually). They didn't want to give me a car either, stating "we don't have loaners." I started to pitch a fit, and picked up my phone to call Pontiac's customer support (800 ROADSIDE, it was the only number I could quickly find in the dealership - posted on the car's window). He grumbled and told me to wait, and got me into an Enterprise rental car.. Nice piece of shit too, a stripped down Ford Escort.

I am dealing with my first DCX experience right now with the 300c. It has been amazing. They picked us up for a freakin headlight recall! We have gotten a loaner every time, and it wasn't even that bad of a loaner each time. We have had to bring it in five times (recall for the headlight, 2x free oil changes, install of blue tooth phone and to fix the blue tooth). We have gotten a PT Cruiser once (turbo version, not that bad of a car honestly..had some pep), a 300 base model twice, 1 jeep liberty (not so good of a Jeep) and a Pacifica (didn't mind it). Every loaner car they gave us without even asking us if I needed one (I would have declined, we have enough cars here..still hoping to get a Crossfire :devil:).

The car has to go in next week for its 7500 mile service :(

I have had poor service from Pontiac as well. I know that the piston rings need replacing and that is why I have started to burn up 1.5 quarts every 3k when I used to never burn any. They have the ability to deny anything unless you are willing to get another shop to testify to the problem in court.

Personally, I love my WS6 over any other car I like (ex. M3, S4, Viper). But GM does not back their cars like they should.

Also, I was happy to get my WS6, a year old, for $24,000 and fully loaded.

However, with the new Mustang and the Audi S4 toting nice V8s with performance and style that IMHO kicks dirt in the face of cars like the GTO I will be forced to get my next 'muscle' car elsewhere.

And... do not forget that these moves from GM are paying off and they need not listen to me or others like me if they keep posting better earnings overall.

Personally I would like to see Lutz resign and have 'stone4779' take over for the sport car brands and image with his idea.

[QUOTE=

At any rate, I think the Camaro's largest problem was its price slipped up too high in the late 90's Suddenly it was being sold alongside nicer more upscale coupes from Germany and Japan. Conversly, I remember being in highschool and seeing a third Gen Camaro RS new on a dealer lot and actually being able to swing payments on a 5.0 Liter TBI with a crappy part-time job. Don't know too many high school kids that could have paid for an LS1 with a part time high school job. Nowadays the Cavalier Coupe...er...uhm....Cobalt fills that role.

So if the Camaro still means cheap performance, I'll be curious to see how much $$ cheap is nowadays.

-Adam[/QUOTE]

That would be a logical assumption. Actually, the opposite was true. WE had to put high rebates on the 18K V6 model, and with exception of October thru December, could not build enough 30K-34K SSs........go figure.

I
[ ] High flow air lid w/ filter $125 for example

Other stuff like Headers or at least shorties could be available....even aftermarket brands maybe...Could you imagine checking a box that said "Hooker Catback"?

I'd be willing to pay a little extra for having it installed AFTER(before would be cool but I doubt GM would do that) ordering the car so long as it doesnt void the warranty on the rest of the car and it can pass emissions for all those who care.(not me)

I think thats reasonable. GM rakes in more and different customers, sells a bunch of Camaros/whatever else they make aftermarket for, make $$ off the extra parts,make $$ off the labor for the installation of said parts, make money off charging me extra $$ for the warranty, and thousands of happy customers will have a factory ride with the parts they want with a warranty. Granted you pay a ton more money short term but when the time comes to sell it it doesnt say "1999 Camaro, mint, highly modified, 500 HP, tons of $$ and time invested, $15000" it says "1999 Camaro, 500 HP stock, special order, $25000" (Just an example) Its original, not pieced togther so its more desirable. More expensive but more desirable and most of all....financeable!

DCX is offering quite enticing stuff over there....lots of aftermarket goodies. I think GM will follow in some form or another....I just hope its for a good price. :)

-Chris S.


well, here's the bad news...the only way we could sell you most of this stuff is over the counter...for off road use.

For example: there are 53 counties in the United States that have a 'drive-by noise standard'.....yup, we actually have to validate for that. (some of you may have 96 or 97 LT1s with Automatic....with performance axle, you'll notice that the PRNDL does not have a 1st gear select.......that's because we had to remove it to pass noise driveby. The good thing about 2nd sticker thru SLP was that the decibel limit raises for aftermarket....but most other stuff either violates CAFE laws, emissions laws, or noise driveby.

(Didja ever notice how much easier life was back in the 60s????)

We are, however offering a lot more performance parts...and you see a lot more coming......

DCX is offering quite enticing stuff over there....lots of aftermarket goodies.

For the Hemi cars, can you elaborate? Don't hold your breath on the Camaro offering two different suspensions either. Every Zeta will probably be IRS just like each Chrysler LX and Cadillac Sigma car.

For the Hemi cars, can you elaborate?

There is nothing for us 345 V-8 guys :(

They won't even help any of the tuners learn the program to help tune it :(:(:(:(

well, here's the bad news...the only way we could sell you most of this stuff is over the counter...for off road use.

For example: there are 53 counties in the United States that have a 'drive-by noise standard'.....yup, we actually have to validate for that. (some of you may have 96 or 97 LT1s with Automatic....with performance axle, you'll notice that the PRNDL does not have a 1st gear select.......that's because we had to remove it to pass noise driveby. The good thing about 2nd sticker thru SLP was that the decibel limit raises for aftermarket....but most other stuff either violates CAFE laws, emissions laws, or noise driveby.

(Didja ever notice how much easier life was back in the 60s????)

We are, however offering a lot more performance parts...and you see a lot more coming......

Well the muffler was just an example....but theres got to be a way for you guys to get us into what we want. Do the second sticker thing...charge an rm and a leg, but at least give it to me! Whats better?....seeing a lolly-pop and not being able to have it because its not really there, or paying $50 for that lolly pop? Hey at least you got your lolly-pop...and you can eat it, too. ;)

Im not sure how COPO cars worked back in the day but Im sure theres a loophole that could allow this. Theres a loophole for everything. You just have to find it.

We have Displacement on Demand, catalytic converters, fuel injection, etc.

Limit the throttle from opening 100% somehow just to get it to pass. If the regulating agencies want to play ball, well, play ball. Remeber the CAGS feature? throw that in there.....make the models that pollute more available in only manual and put CAGS on there. Or something similar that is easy for us to override.

With all the money and resources GM has, they can do anything they want to, but the thing is...is it politically correct?

GM has to bring us all this stuff we want but at the same time they have to keep everyone else happy.

How?

Maybe offer the 500 HP LS7 as a crate engine(will be anyways) but with everything needed to convert, and offer a discount on it if you purchase a new vehicle at the same time. Warranty the engine for whatever the stock engine is(duration and coverage)

for example: I buy a 2005 Camaro Z28 fully loaded and the biggest engine available is the 6.0L LS2. Offer to sell the engine swap kit with the car at a huge discount. I pay the dealership to install it for~~$1200? I guess.

Camaro Z28 - $25K with most options
LS7 engine swap kit - $7K?
Install - $1200?

So Im at $33,200 for an '05 Z28 with the LS7 but I only have the warranty on the engine and the rest has been voided.

This is all ok by me, but most people want the warranty. Heck, I'd like it but I'd be fine with just a powertrain/paint warranty.

So if you can come up with something like that and offer some sort of assurance that the warranty on UNRELATED items is still covered...I'm cool with it.

I dont understand it....we put aftermarket rims on our cars & suddenly the dealership says no warranty work? BS. I've given up on taking the car to the dealership for warranty work. By the time you get past the rental fees, pain & anguish, time wasted, fighting traffic to get to the dealership, dealing with the pimple-faced kid at the counter, arguing with the manager, I just started taking my cars straight to the shop and pay out of pocket. Forget the warranty if you cant honor it.

Thats the other thing I never liked about GM. The service when you want warranty work if aweful. It's almost like your bringing a VW Beetle to a GM service dept. "Sorry, cant help you"

Fix it.

Im not saying I wont buy GM anymore, because that would be a lie. But it makes me feel a LOT less confident when buying one.

For Christ sakes, I shouldnt have to take my mother's car to the dealership for warranty work because Im the only one who can ever get them to fix whats wrong. People who know NOTHING about cars should be able to walk into their GM service dept and get their stuff fixed without a hassle or calling their buddy who knows about cars to talk to the service rep. to talk him into fixing it.

It is not ethical to fix the same problem on one car while denying it to another person with the same car.

And Scott, tell Bob I said "Hi" and "Hurry".

I just wanted to add this:

I dont want a Corvette(Z06 or not)

I want a Camaro. Not because I need more trunk space, or a back seat, or a lower price....just "BECAUSE"

I used to like the Corvette when I was younger but now I like having the bigger, heavier, les nimble car, and smoking the lighter guys. THATS what the camaro is all about! The look on their faces....!

There is nothing for us 345 V-8 guys :(

They won't even help any of the tuners learn the program to help tune it :(:(:(:(

That's like shooting that engine in the foot. The aftermarket makes the car. The LXs could be red hot if that wasn't the case.

For the Hemi cars, can you elaborate? Don't hold your breath on the Camaro offering two different suspensions either. Every Zeta will probably be IRS just like each Chrysler LX and Cadillac Sigma car.

I was referring to the support for the SRT4...plus theres more on the way for it & more on the way for the other models.

And the suspension thing is ok, but the main focus for most Im sure is "how much?" and "How much power?"(or "how fast?")

At the VERY LEAST they should have optional engines. So mom can buy her teenage son a Z28 4.8L while daddy can have his Z28 6.0L or 5.3L.

Thats what would make this work so well. The insurance premiums were so high on the last gens.....this would help a lot.

I dont care if its limited production of 5 LS7s(or whatever) per state or something(I'll pay extra...:)), just give us a big honk'in motor and high quality materials!

At the VERY LEAST they should have optional engines. So mom can buy her teenage son a Z28 4.8L while daddy can have his Z28 6.0L or 5.3L.

That's not going to happen if the coupe or car market in general remains soft, same thing with energy prices and trends. I would almost put money on it being the status quo with a V6 model and a V8 model, and that's it.

They need to figure out a way to keep the price reasonable, that's one huge factor that has diminshed recent muscle cars.

Loop hole for COPO? Not really...unless of course you're talking about the 69 2002 ZL1s built by GMMG in Atlanta.........but trust me, that's skunk works.

"With all the money GM has"...........are you kidding?

We're launching more new products than ever.....but let me tell you, the costs are staggering. (esp. with the number of divisions we have)

I like your ideas...and trust me, we've been looking at doing a lot of this stuff....within Legal limits. (remember, we do live in a litigious society these days....ah....the 60s were a great time to be in this business....very few lawsuits and very few regulations in terms of emissions and fuel economy, etc...that said, this really is the golden age of performance....the cars we build today will do everything better than they did in the late 60s and early 70s...AND...you can do it with the air on and the stereo blasting away...although I'd rather listen to that great V8........

Lots more stuff coming.

As to service...the Magnuson-Moss act gives you specific rights. A dealer cannot turn down warranty work on, say, an air conditioner just because you changed your wheels...they have nothing to do with the air conditioning failure. Quite frankly, there are more good dealers out there than bad, it's just that the bad ones make such a negative impression..


Once again...have faith!

There is nothing for us 345 V-8 guys :(

They won't even help any of the tuners learn the program to help tune it :(:(:(:(

Carb anyone? :devil:

Carb anyone? :devil:

That would be nightmare with the cylinder deactivation software I suppose though. Would certainly solve a lot of problems though :judge:

What software? Start yanking wires.

I would just like to add the Ford is planning to offer optional live axle or independant rear suspension on the Mustang....

GM could ya? Maybe? Wouldnt it be nice to have this on the checklist when ordering your '07 Camaro?

[ ] 4.8L LS4 275 HP $900
[ ] 5.3L LS5? 315 HP $1200
[ ] 6.0L LS2 400 HP $1500
[ ] LS7 500 HP $???

[ ] Live Axle $0
[ ] Independant $???

[ ] 5 speed auto $1000
[ ] 6 speed manual $0
[ ] 6 speed auto F1 style $1500-$2000?

On top of that, those HP numbers should be with factory restrictive stuff(as normal) and they should offer optional "accessories" as factory equipment.

Things us LS1 guys had to piece together.

[ ] High flow air lid w/ filter $125 for example

Other stuff like Headers or at least shorties could be available....even aftermarket brands maybe...Could you imagine checking a box that said "Hooker Catback"?

I'd be willing to pay a little extra for having it installed AFTER(before would be cool but I doubt GM would do that) ordering the car so long as it doesnt void the warranty on the rest of the car and it can pass emissions for all those who care.(not me)

I think thats reasonable. GM rakes in more and different customers, sells a bunch of Camaros/whatever else they make aftermarket for, make $$ off the extra parts,make $$ off the labor for the installation of said parts, make money off charging me extra $$ for the warranty, and thousands of happy customers will have a factory ride with the parts they want with a warranty. Granted you pay a ton more money short term but when the time comes to sell it it doesnt say "1999 Camaro, mint, highly modified, 500 HP, tons of $$ and time invested, $15000" it says "1999 Camaro, 500 HP stock, special order, $25000" (Just an example) Its original, not pieced togther so its more desirable. More expensive but more desirable and most of all....financeable!

DCX is offering quite enticing stuff over there....lots of aftermarket goodies. I think GM will follow in some form or another....I just hope its for a good price. :)

-Chris S.

wow that would make it a tuff decision b/t paddle shift which is prolly slower at track and 5sp auto.. a choice id like to make tho!!! and id definetly, definetly get teh ls7 427 motor unless there was another one that was better!

As moderator of this forum here are my two cents.

1.) If someone uploads a document onto the LS1Tech server that is clearly property of General Motors that says "not for distribution" etc, I will delete it.

2.) You can tell people where such information is (that is a link). I will use my best judgement on whether or not it's appropriate. If GM contacts me personally asking me to remove information I most liekly will....no calls yet.

3.) Neither LS1Tech nor Adam have signed a waiver of rights giving GM jurisdiction over our actions, so unless I am receiving some benefit from GM (i.e. a paycheck) then I have no reason to forfeit my rights to talk about future models and information about future models.

4.) If a website posts "please do not hot link to this photo, just provide a link" or similar on their article or photo I will respect that and just provide a link.

Keep in mind under US copyright law you can republish copyrighted material for the purpose of critical analysis of such material. That is I can publish a copyrighted photo to critically analyze the contents of the photo, I cannot republish a copyrighted photo for the purposes of redistribution, profit, etc. Thankfully that's one section of "Fair Use" the RIAA hasn't stripped from us yet.

Now off the subject of cars for a second in my time at AT&T I handled various levels of "secret" information. Now I have agreements in place with AT&T where I have forfeited my rights in order to be privy to such information. Included repercussions are agreeing to be sued, loosing my job and being financially accountable to damages. It's up to me to decide if I want to risk those repercussions to "leak" info (to what end I would never know). But if I did, those that use the information did not make arrangements with AT&T and do not hold the level of accountability that I would.

Here is the thing though if I said "AT&T is going to release OC768 DWDM next year" I could be telling the truth I could be lying, I could be disseminating proprietary info, I might not be. You don't know, and you don't have an obligation to AT&T to "control the leak" I do.

-Adam

UR THE MAN DUDE!!! way to stand ur ground! :hail:

Last...a Camaro MUST have a muscular V8 engine..it MUST be RWD...it MUST look like a Camaro...it MUST sound like a Camaro...it MUST stick to the road like velcro...and it MUST do that at a Chevrolet price..........nuff said!

Um, is this really the "Fbodfather?" wow.

I can agree with what you say, but look at the internet as a whole. Stuff is leaked, hacked, etc. if GM is serious about their documents like this, I would suggest either:

A: don't have important documents in a computer format, or, if you do, somehow watermark individually each copy which is given out.

B: When important documents (paper) are given out, watermark them. Hell, anyone else here know that Xerox machines print out identifying watermarks on EVERYTHING that they print? As I recall, it had to do with our government requiring them to do this, as a means of finding counterfitters.

This is old technology, not new. If you want to catch people, implement it. That would slow down leaks quite a bit i'd think.

If for some reason you are reading this, if/when the new Camaro does launch, how about a 60 second superbowl commercial? Yeah, it's expensive, but what better way to target your exact customers? (younger males).

Also, since we are in the internet age, do you realize that commercials are WILLING DOWNLOADED by prospecting buyers? Sure, some people use TiVo or the like to skip commercials, but then they go online, and read, "WOw! check out this new corvette commercial!" *click*.

That is the most targeted type of advertising you will EVER see. Some day maybe companies will realize this. If you could make a new Camaro commercial, which blows everyone away (Why would I want a new mustang/civic/350Z, when I could have THAT!") Just make sure to have a downloadable version of the video as well.

I personally think it would go a damn long way to making the Camaro a huge success.

Um, is this really the "Fbodfather?" wow.

Yes that is the Real Fbodfather or aka Red planet. lol I see enough of his emails from him both personal & group.

yes we definetly need some light on the horizon.. oh and did i mention id like mine to come with the option of a moser 12 bolt????

Wow, this is cool, both krazzycowgirl and fbodfather are here :)

(recognize both of you from cz28.com I think)

Wow, this is cool, both krazzycowgirl and fbodfather are here :)

(recognize both of you from cz28.com I think)

Not familiar with Krazzycowgirl myself. Nice to meet you. :)

If you are involved with GM, thanks for my cars. : D

At any rate, I think the Camaro's largest problem was its price slipped up too high in the late 90's Suddenly it was being sold alongside nicer more upscale coupes from Germany and Japan. Conversly, I remember being in highschool and seeing a third Gen Camaro RS new on a dealer lot and actually being able to swing payments on a 5.0 Liter TBI with a crappy part-time job. Don't know too many high school kids that could have paid for an LS1 with a part time high school job. Nowadays the Cavalier Coupe...er...uhm....Cobalt fills that role.

So if the Camaro still means cheap performance, I'll be curious to see how much $$ cheap is nowadays.

-Adam
That would be a logical assumption. Actually, the opposite was true. WE had to put high rebates on the 18K V6 model, and with exception of October thru December, could not build enough 30K-34K SSs........go figure.
Well you are the expert....but the question becomes is the SS and V6 shopper the same buyer? Maybe a $33K Camaro is taking sales from a $40K Vette? In my opinion this is a weakness of the GM marketing strategy. To spread a brand so thin to gain market share and in doing so it looses market focus (and brand strength). There was once a time (a very successful time I might add) where the base performance car was the Camaro, the top of the line was the Corvette and the Firebird/Trans Am covered the middle. but as the Camaro became more expensive (for the top of the line version) where did those sales come from? The Trans Am?

Couldn't sell V6 Camaros? Personally I think that's because the Base Camaro had a stigma of being "base". Who wants to buy "Base" of one line when they can have "Top of the Line" in another line? Not to mention your $18K/shopper is not going to be as afluent... that is, the $30K Camaro SS buyer *is* buying a toy. The $18K V6 Camaro buyer is buying *transportation*. In that regard the V6 Camaro is a terrible car as the compromises the packaging makes for performance are not worthwhile given the low performance of the car. If I could only afford a $18K car for transportation, I'm more likely to look at a more practical Honda Accord or similar. The performance delta between a V6 Camaro and the more practical alternatives are not worth the sacrifice in practicality.

My current M3 reflects that as well. The C6 is an awesome machine, but I didn't feel the extra 10% of performance over the M3 was worth the sacrifice in Amenities, Interior quality, Back Seat, real trunk, tighter package, etc. But then again I was buying *transportation* rather than a *toy*. :D

-Adam

Just to expand upon what I said above I think the succes of the Mustang V6 as compared to the Camaro V6 has been more from packaging. The Camaro (3rd gen and 4h gen) is very low slung hard to get in and out of and is a huge car with a tiny interior. Those compromises are fine if you have a low 13 second Qtr mile car that pulls .90Gs on the skid pad. but if you have a rather anemic V6 sadled with All season rubber, why make the packaging compromises? The Mustang (Fox/SN95) is more compact and upright. While the top of the line car wasn't (arguably) the performer of the F-Body, the base car had less package comrpromise and thusly was an easier sell to those looking for *sporty transportation*.

Of course this is all my uneducated speculation.

-Adam

*foot in mouth*

Wow. Kick it to Camaroz28.com, and go through Red Planet's posts. There is a lot of info in there, and a huge amount which has restored my faith in GM.

Of course, on the commercial thing, I'm kind of curious if http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/06/231234&tid=153&tid=219 (slashdot) the Parents Television Council orginization was the one who complained about that Corvette commercial. Wouldn't doubt it, seeing as though they accounted for more than 99%+ of ALL complaints in 2003.

Man, time to go to bed, I'm getting damn mad now. Free country my ass.

Scott S, nice to see you on our board.

Our board is one of the most interesting EFI GM websites on the planet. Our readership dwarfs a number of magazines.

That being said, I think that any pony car needs to have navigation as an option. I know it's a $1500-2000 option but I think that we need that so that buyers don't turn away.

If there is ever an opportunity to have any of our members participate in a styling clinic, that would be fantastic. We are the folks who will buy the car. For example, as a man I think we all think the add-on spoiler on the GTO's looks like something out of the 1998 Grand Am parts bin. But the GTO is roomy and has a great interior. Just needs Navi. :)

I also have to say, Red Planet's constant saying of "keep the faith" has thusfar kept me from losing it.

Navigation is a nice add-on, but definitely should be an option. I'd love to have had it in my 04 GTO, especially when the shape of the center dash "stack" would suit it very well.

The options I'd really like to see are something that would herald to the car's stigma. I'd love to see a "drag pack" option, with steep gears and some dragstrip-tuned suspension details. I'm sure it'd never get past CARB/CAFE though :lol: I'd also like to again see a 1LE variant, lightweight low-option car with Konis and faster rate springs/swaybars. These aren't going to pull big sales numbers, but for a minimal investment you offer up the image the car is somewhat of a "factory bred race car."

From what Scott has hinted towards, GM is apparently listening and is going in a direction we will all be happy with. From the leaks we've seen, Scott is being truthful with the limited information he's allowed (legally) to share. We more or less know what the platform, engine, and transmission will be. We just don't know what it'll LOOK like ;)

If a replacement car is over 30K, it will get compared to other cars in the same price point. Having just bought a Acura TL 6MT as a daily driver (270hp 3.2 V6), you definitely find that when someone buys a car for $33-35K they compare all of the same features, like:

leather standard
sunroof standard
17" tires optional
17" performance tires optional
Navigation optional

I think an interesting option list for a Zeta based 5th gen would be:

Navigation
Leather
17's, or 17's in a summer tire variant or 18's
Sunroof
AWD
Door moldings
HID
No generic part's bin spoiler, optional lip spoiler for $500
Body kit

Most body treatments can be dealer added now on most $30K+ cars.
18's as an optional upgrade, or OTC purchase bare is getting common.
HID is badass, a GTP has it why can't a Camaro have it.

AWD and Sunroof?

AWD would probably work well on the V-6, but I like my T-tops :( (even though we are no longer in the 70's)

Not familiar with Krazzycowgirl myself. Nice to meet you. :)

If you are involved with GM, thanks for my cars. : D


No not with GM..........or the Autoworld for that matter unless you count Dragracing & car shows.

I am just friends with Scott.

Wow, this is cool, both krazzycowgirl and fbodfather are here :)

(recognize both of you from cz28.com I think)

If you are with Cz28.com then you would know Fbodfather under Red planet & yea its me. I came here because we now own a 99 LS1 car.

It would be nice if the next camaro came with HIDs as an option.

If the pic on page 2 is the new 07 Camaro, here's a couple of things that I think could be improved.

-The side profile is really good.
-The nose looks good from the side, but needs some work from the front.
Those foglamps look awkward also. Ditch the foglamps on the RS version and
put em in the grill like the 67's had. Hell, I'd even make them round like the
67's. Put the SS badge in the grill also like the 67.
-The rear looks good except for the taillights and rear bumper. Square off the
bumper below the taillights and also square the taillights more. Those look like
cat eyes.

Here's some ideas on existing powertrains that could keep the costs low.

Base - $18400
225hp 3.5 I5 5m/4a (:lol: - base w/ same power as old 5.0) hi 15's in 1/4
RS6 - $18700
275hp 4.2 I6 5m/4a (mid-level susp.) hi 14's in 1/4
RS8 - $19900
300hp 4.8 V8 5m/4a (mid-level susp.) low 14's in 1/4
Z28 - $24900
325hp 5.3 V8 6m/4a (Hi-perf. susp. w/ opt. 1LE) mid 13's in 1/4
SS - $32900
400hp 6.0 V8 6m (Hi-perf. susp. w/ opt. 1LE) mid 12's in 1/4
ZL1 - $39900
475hp 7.0 V8 6m (1LE) hi 11's in 1/4

btw, please make sure the diff can handle the power of the engine installed in the car :eyes:

I must say, that i have enjoyed reading all 5 pages of this, and off topic, but on topic all the same, Scott S.(FbodFather/Red Planet) is a very stand up guy who, when the Camaro was produced had one of the coolest jobs in the world as far as i could see. I'm on my 3rd Camaro, and with my previous 2 i was a religious attendee of several all Camaro car shows.....Camaro Street Nationals/Camaro Superfest, and every show that i attended that Scott was at, was an enjoyment, he stayed in the same hotels as all of us, partied all night with us spent hours and hours and hours talking with us, never once did i see the man not have a smile on his face, he genuinely enjoyed spending time with the enthusiasts, and valued our thoughts and opinions, and gave us as much info/hope as legally allowed. The guy actually made you feel like he knew you personally, which he kind of did, since we all were a family. But he traveled the US from show to show, meeting to meeting, and yet remained very personable with us all, i would give my first born to have Scott's job, to be able to do something i enjoyed, surrounded with the thing/things i loved, beings cars, Camaro's in particular. I'll stop ranting for now, but i would like to leave with this.......Scott, i hope you are still with the company when the Camaro is reintroduced, as i look forward to speeking with you further at any/all Camaro functions i am able to attend.

I must say, that i have enjoyed reading all 5 pages of this, and off topic, but on topic all the same, Scott S.(FbodFather/Red Planet) is a very stand up guy who, when the Camaro was produced had one of the coolest jobs in the world as far as i could see. I'm on my 3rd Camaro, and with my previous 2 i was a religious attendee of several all Camaro car shows.....Camaro Street Nationals/Camaro Superfest, and every show that i attended that Scott was at, was an enjoyment, he stayed in the same hotels as all of us, partied all night with us spent hours and hours and hours talking with us, never once did i see the man not have a smile on his face, he genuinely enjoyed spending time with the enthusiasts, and valued our thoughts and opinions, and gave us as much info/hope as legally allowed. The guy actually made you feel like he knew you personally, which he kind of did, since we all were a family. But he traveled the US from show to show, meeting to meeting, and yet remained very personable with us all, i would give my first born to have Scott's job, to be able to do something i enjoyed, surrounded with the thing/things i loved, beings cars, Camaro's in particular. I'll stop ranting for now, but i would like to leave with this.......Scott, i hope you are still with the company when the Camaro is reintroduced, as i look forward to speeking with you further at any/all Camaro functions i am able to attend.


I also had an opportunity to meet Scott at a recent F-bod evet. I agree, I believe Scott is a stand up guy. I know GM has been there for the enthusiast for MANY years and has provided more cars and engines than any other manufacturer. Sometimes it seems like people forget that and are ready to jump to another HORSE just because its still for sale. I buy these cars for there performance not there sales figures. I am confident that Chevy will not let us down. They have been there for the enthusiast more than any other manufacturer through the years and after this little hic-cup, I'm sure they will pick up where they left off. Keeping the faith and thanks Scott for you input, despite the negativity.

GM has betrayed us and that pic looks like crap. I just got a Stang and will get a Cobra when I finish school. Ford has stayed loyal to the faith GM has not. Plus, I like my Stang as much as my Z.

Really, putting a 300hp(that still doesn't match our "OLD" LS1), small displacement, torque challenged v8 in there "pony/muscle" car is staying loyal to the faith? :eyes: Although power isn't everything, it's the #1 requirement in the "muscle faith". Could you please define faith? I guess I just find it so hard to believe that a company that has had such a defining, dominant and devoted presence in the enthusiast market, (i.e. the makers of the most poplular small block in the world doesn't have a blue oval on it, yet it ends up in many blue ovals) goes through a short drought and there supporters are ready to jump ship. I left Ford back in 02 because I was so sick of, year after year of underperforming, torqueless, overcomplicated valvetrain configurations that still didn't match GM's "low-tech" pushrod engines. The only bright spot in Fords line-up is the 03-04 Cobra and that accounts for a very, very, small percentage of Mustang sales and all the others are left with a 4.6 sohc engine that after 10 YEARS of production still cant match the power of an out of production LS1, much less the LS2 and the ability of both to make a ton more power with few bolt ons. I guess I am a member of a different "faith". I am thankful for my LS1 powered Camaro and it will serve me well till the General brings out another Ford buster. I'm not denying that GM made a boo-boo, but just like my favorite football team, I'm not going to jump ship on them just because they have several bad seasons. Thank you!

Really, putting a 300hp(that still doesn't match our "OLD" LS1), small displacement, torque challenged v8 in there "pony/muscle" car is staying loyal to the faith? :eyes: Although power isn't everything, it's the #1 requirement in the "muscle faith". Could you please define faith? I guess I just find it so hard to believe that a company that has had such a defining, dominant and devoted presence in the enthusiast market, (i.e. the makers of the most poplular small block in the world doesn't have a blue oval on it, yet it ends up in many blue ovals) goes through a short drought and there supporters are ready to jump ship. I left Ford back in 02 because I was so sick of, year after year of underperforming, torqueless, overcomplicated valvetrain configurations that still didn't match GM's "low-tech" pushrod engines. The only bright spot in Fords line-up is the 03-04 Cobra and that accounts for a very, very, small percentage of Mustang sales and all the others are left with a 4.6 sohc engine that after 10 years of production still cant match the power of an out of production LS1, much less the LS2 and the ability of both to make a ton more power with few bolt ons. I guess I am a member of a different "faith". I am thankful for my LS1 powered Camaro and it will serve me well till the General brings out another Ford buster. I'm not denying that GM made a boo-boo, but just like my favorite football team, I'm not going to jump ship on them just because they have several bad seasons. Thank you!

Yeup. :judge:

I agree.

Although there have been times where I wanted to go out and get something else to hold me off for the time being, I never did....

All the Camaros are still in my driveway/storage/garage (They're everywhere lol :jest: )

Sold the Trans Am though... :cry:

But I replaced it with yet another Camaro :emb: :jest:

Really, putting a 300hp(that still doesn't match our "OLD" LS1), small displacement, torque challenged v8 in there "pony/muscle" car is staying loyal to the faith? :eyes: Although power isn't everything, it's the #1 requirement in the "muscle faith". Could you please define faith? I guess I just find it so hard to believe that a company that has had such a defining, dominant and devoted presence in the enthusiast market, (i.e. the makers of the most poplular small block in the world doesn't have a blue oval on it, yet it ends up in many blue ovals) goes through a short drought and there supporters are ready to jump ship. I left Ford back in 02 because I was so sick of, year after year of underperforming, torqueless, overcomplicated valvetrain configurations that still didn't match GM's "low-tech" pushrod engines. The only bright spot in Fords line-up is the 03-04 Cobra and that accounts for a very, very, small percentage of Mustang sales and all the others are left with a 4.6 sohc engine that after 10 YEARS of production still cant match the power of an out of production LS1, much less the LS2 and the ability of both to make a ton more power with few bolt ons. I guess I am a member of a different "faith". I am thankful for my LS1 powered Camaro and it will serve me well till the General brings out another Ford buster. I'm not denying that GM made a boo-boo, but just like my favorite football team, I'm not going to jump ship on them just because they have several bad seasons. Thank you!Amen!

Amen!

lol I like your sig :jest:

Fbodfather, i am not asking if it will be done, but if this is possible.
would it possible to order a car without an engine. and have a crate engine installed later?

edit: i also hope it has a mean stance like this car
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/chad/comaroz28.sized.jpg
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/chad/nextgencamaro.sized.jpg

I hope they don't have it named after the Camaro so that we have a rare car in the future like the cars from the 60s. That why I bought my Camaro since they weren't making then anymore. And besides that, I don't think I'm buying Gm anymore since they screwed me out of $1000 that they owed me. Even the salesmen at the dealer thought it was ridiclous that they wouldn't pay me the money. Pretty bad when they knock GM too. Also who cares if someone leaked info, they are just afraid they will lose money now since people would be saving for the car in 08 instead of buying some pos 05 car.

I really liked reading the speculation on the new Camaro. I'd love for another one to come out, but I'm kind of mad at GM. I guess they have their reasons for keeping things secret, but as a buyer, I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I'm almost in the market for another vehicle. My truck is almost paid off, and I have at least two options.
Wait and save my money until 2007, hoping a new Camaro will come out that I'll like. Or go ahead and find a late-model Camaro or Firebird. If I do the latter, then I'll want to try to find a SE with the best motor and hp. I'd want to do this, so that I can have a GM sports coupe for later years. So my delimma is, should I stay or should I go? :jest:
btw, I like the 'stangs, too, so I have more options than that, but I was just putting them out there in regarding Camaros, since for years I was a Camaro driver.

I regret my following statements about GM, but I must state the obvious.

Lets face it. GM has dropped the ball. Even the GTOs are not selling as expected by the company. Over the next few years we will see what GM does but they need to reinvent their decision processes. But it doesn't look good.

The imports are coming with trucks, BIG trucks now. Expect that take a big bit out of the Tahoe, Avalanche, and 1500 truck market share. Which are the most profitable and where GM has focused over the last 10 years. Imports still reign in terms of service departments and long term reliability, and now they have the truck size that matters.

The new Ford Mustang design is completely sick! It signifies American muscle car. There's a waiting list for even the V-6 version. On the other hand, you have the GTO, which is great for horsepower, but not much good for "in your face" styling at the stoplight (too much Grand Am and Grand Prix in my opinion). Sorry to our LS1tech GTO owners.

On the third side, except for the disappointing Charger design, Chrysler is on top of its game with the Dodge Magnum and Hemi 300C. Who would have though a chop top look would be so inspiring to the car market. Oh, wait a minute, we do!!! Take notice Ford and GM, Chrysler is going back to its MOPAR roots, beware....

So what about GM??? GM is still the largest producer of vehicles. But its market share is quickly moving towards rentals cars and fleet vehicles. Other than the C6, GM has no great designs in the game. Every other American car manufacturer is moving back to its muscle car roots. Where are you?

Some advice to GM, lose the "SUV/Trucks are everything" attitude. Trucks and SUVs are a easily accessible commodity now. You are not the only producer anymore (every hear of Supply & Demand?). Your SUV/Truck mentality is similar to the software developer job market, in the beginning of the tech boom, you could demand an inflated price for your services, however, those days are over and the market is flooded with potentials, and your jobs(read SUVs/Trucks) are going overseas.

Get back to your muscle car roots GM!!! Americans will always want more power, more styling, at a great American price. If you need some focus groups to help with you reinvigoration, look to the members of this community. We are the only thing that keeps the GM namesake alive. However, we are quickly losing patience.....

Sorry for the soapbox....ttt

Concerned GM Loyalist,
FRANK DA TANK

PS
http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11536-217530-1535/camaro1.jpg

:D
if it looked like that then i could see it doing real well! :)

I regret my following statements about GM, but I must state the obvious.

Lets face it. GM has dropped the ball. Even the GTOs are not selling as expected by the company. Over the next few years we will see what GM does but they need to reinvent their decision processes. But it doesn't look good.

The imports are coming with trucks, BIG trucks now. Expect that take a big bit out of the Tahoe, Avalanche, and 1500 truck market share. Which are the most profitable and where GM has focused over the last 10 years. Imports still reign in terms of service departments and long term reliability, and now they have the truck size that matters.

The new Ford Mustang design is completely sick! It signifies American muscle car. There's a waiting list for even the V-6 version. On the other hand, you have the GTO, which is great for horsepower, but not much good for "in your face" styling at the stoplight (too much Grand Am and Grand Prix in my opinion). Sorry to our LS1tech GTO owners.

On the third side, except for the disappointing Charger design, Chrysler is on top of its game with the Dodge Magnum and Hemi 300C. Who would have though a chop top look would be so inspiring to the car market. Oh, wait a minute, we do!!! Take notice Ford and GM, Chrysler is going back to its MOPAR roots, beware....

So what about GM??? GM is still the largest producer of vehicles. But its market share is quickly moving towards rentals cars and fleet vehicles. Other than the C6, GM has no great designs in the game. Every other American car manufacturer is moving back to its muscle car roots. Where are you?

Some advice to GM, lose the "SUV/Trucks are everything" attitude. Trucks and SUVs are a easily accessible commodity now. You are not the only producer anymore (every hear of Supply & Demand?). Your SUV/Truck mentality is similar to the software developer job market, in the beginning of the tech boom, you could demand an inflated price for your services, however, those days are over and the market is flooded with potentials, and your jobs(read SUVs/Trucks) are going overseas.

Get back to your muscle car roots GM!!! Americans will always want more power, more styling, at a great American price. If you need some focus groups to help with you reinvigoration, look to the members of this community. We are the only thing that keeps the GM namesake alive. However, we are quickly losing patience.....

Sorry for the soapbox....ttt

Concerned GM Loyalist,
FRANK DA TANK

While I definitely agree with you on the fact that GM has dropped the ball on a nice entry level LS2 powered coupe, what else have they screwed up on? Yeah, there's the Aztek and that new fruity PT Cruiser wannabe, but seriously now. If I was in the market for anything but an entry level RWD V8 coupe, I'd probably go GM. My family has had too many bad experiences with Ford trucks and I don't trust the new imports (at least the full-sizes). I can't say anything bad about Ford cars, because I've never had any personal experiences with them. However, based on the trucks, I would not get one. They also have plenty of great (CHEAP) options for sedans. The well-priced Malibu with an impressive list of standard features is one such example. I suppose I might go import if I was looking for a luxury car, but other than that, I'm still loyal to GM. Just my $.02

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO FEELS LIKE TELLING GM TO SUCK MY BALLS?? :cool: i feel as though gm really screwed us all over.. like ur wife or girlfriend cheating on you! how many would take her back??? maybe only if she really really kissed ur ass and did something amazing for you.. and then maybe not even then right? this is what position gm is in with me right now. they'd have to give me a hooking lightweight camaro with a lot of power, and fbody looks, and not start it at a cent more then the last one.. and then i might consider buying another car from them.... regardless, i will never trust them again, just as you wouldn't that girl lol.

on a side note, gm has dropped the ball lately... screw the 75,000$ ls7 vette, that looks like a damn viper, and is amazingly similar in all but lacking 2 cylinders... and screw them for killing my 20k camaro! and more importantly.. let them all die nad burn in hell if they bring it back as a 4-6banger with fwd as i think they will...

Fbodfather, i am not asking if it will be done, but if this is possible.
would it possible to order a car without an engine. and have a crate engine installed later?

edit: i also hope it has a mean stance like this car
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/chad/comaroz28.sized.jpg
http://www.uberchad.net/albums/chad/nextgencamaro.sized.jpg

those are both beautiful, especially the Z, but I hope they dont do the retro thing.

Does the link still work, 'cause I get an error message. :(

For the GM bashers:

I believe the new Camaro and the new GTO will be great cars.

The Camaro will have to be better than the Mustang when it comes out or why bother. (This is the way it has always been, even in the 60's)

The GTO was simply a rebadge and a quick way for GM to get a RWD platform into the US market.
It is being completely redesigned as we read this.
Due to something as simple as "economy of scales" I would bet money you will see a new Chevelle (or something from Chevrolet) as well.

Big ships turn slowly and GM is the biggest of them all.
Look at the whole Cadillac line! A complete turn around.
For the Better I might add.
I don't know about you but if I could afford a CTS-V I would have one.

They say the Cobalt is actually a very good car, even the base model.

The Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice and Buick are supposed to be great cars.

How about the LS1 powered TrailBlazer SS coming out.

How about the HT / convertible SSR. Now that it has the 6.0, really that is a nice truck.

The new C6 Corvette, only the best sports car in the world for the money say's every magazine on the stands.

The new LS7 Vette, I don't even need to elaborate on that!

How about the new High Performance engine building facility for all the high HP engines. All hand built. Sounds a lot like Porsche and Ferrari to me?

How about the highly successful C5R / C6R racing programs? Kicking butt all over the world?
How about Cadillac racing? Sounds good to me.

GM has more cars than anyone in Nascar.

There are more GM cars in NHRA professional drag racing than all others makers combined. You don't think GM is involved?

GM is on the right track but cannot do everything at once. They have their issues: How about the old F-body factory contract. GM is getting killed by about 2 Billion, yes I said Billion with the Fiat deal they signed a few years ago! Their Health Care costs are through the roof and their pension plan for retirees is killing them. The plans were instituted when people didn't live as long and it is hurting GM's bottom line.
Amongst all of this GM has to keep their share holders happy. If they are not kept happy you will see GM stock fall, then you will be lucky to get anything new.

Keep the faith, GM is doing the right thing. Bashing them doen't help anyone including yourself. Think about it, if a GM mole comes onto this site and reads the negative threads, they will say:
"Well James it seem's we have lost many of the GM faithful, so let's just go back to making cars for the idiots who don't know better".
(A slight exaggeration but you get the point)

I could have given numerous examples but I think I am getting the point across.
How many hot cars does the second largest manufacturer in the world make? You tell me, just go to your local Toyota dealer and see.
GM is doing just fine in my book.

JMHO

I read an article awhile back (can't remember GM high tech maybe)
From what I remember the Camaro was stopped because of a contract disagreement and money differences with the Canadian government. GM was under contract to only build the Camaro there (until 2007 when the contract ran out) and if production stopped the factory would be disassembled and torn down, thus no more Camaros could be produced or GM has to pay for creating financial hardship to that area. I can totally see why its hush hush.......Money
on a scale of disastrous proportions I'm sure.

no more Camaros could be produced until after the contract was over, That would have been how it was written.

no more Camaros could be produced until after the contract was over, That would have been how it was written.

And... Now that the St Therese plant is torn down wouldn't the contract be null and void?

If so, then it would mean that GM has known since they were first gonna discontinue the F-Body that replacement RWD V8 would be needed and that the Mustang competition would need to be filled. That would also mean that GM knew and had since the late 90s to prepare for a replacement to the F-Body.

AND now with all the upset people that want the Camaro/Firebird back it would be common sense to Me to have a platform ready and a drivetrain prepared with a power plant as well that will put the Mustang in it's place or present direct competition. But, GM threw out the GTO with a quick rebadge and no Chevy replacement in sight.

My point is that GM never planned for a F-Body replacement because they never had any intention of replacing it. That if you see the Camaro name again it will only be due to the many loyal customers that wanted the Camaro name returned. I would wager that there are better than 100,000 loyal Camaro/Firebird fans that GM has been pissing off and ignoring.

I would wager that there are better than 100,000 loyal Camaro/Firebird fans that GM has been pissing off and ignoring.

They aren't ignoring us....there are alot of people that lurk on these boards. They more or less have put us on the back burner, not completely focusing on us.

The plant being torn down was in the contract (if GM didn't comply to Canada's stipulations) Production can not start again ( I assume) til 2007, without a lot of money being paid out to Canada.
IMOP GM got caught up in a bad business deal with Canada
so I don't think its fair to say they abandoned the Fbody or they never intended to replace it.........they simply got wrapped up in red tape and these things take time.
Once again this is just my .02

I read an article awhile back (can't remember GM high tech maybe)
From what I remember the Camaro was stopped because of a contract disagreement and money differences with the Canadian government. GM was under contract to only build the Camaro there (until 2007 when the contract ran out) and if production stopped the factory would be disassembled and torn down, thus no more Camaros could be produced or GM has to pay for creating financial hardship to that area. I can totally see why its hush hush.......Money
on a scale of disastrous proportions I'm sure.

The Canadia gvt. loaned gm alot of money to NOT shut down the plant back in the mid'80's(1987?). (I belive the amount was in the billions) and this loan should have matured in 2017. When it became apparent that this VERY old production facility was building one of the slowest selling cars in GM's inventory, it became apparent that something had to happen and this was just a really bad financial decision for GM in the first place. As part of the loan, the st. Theresae plant and the CAW owned the production rights of the fbody's. If theres no building, they cant build it but GM is still resposible for the money owed back. They have donated money to local college's and to lessen the financial impact on the area, they have opened additional shifts and positions at other production plants. But I dont think GM can legally build
camaro's again until the loan obligations are met, and I assume the sale of the property that the plant was on will help go twords that repayment. GM felt they could move the property easier as just land and not land with a seriously outdated factory. I think your exactly right, GM just got caught in a bad business deal and maybe they just didn't forecast how poorly sales were going to go. For what its worth, Scott S. said at one of the Fbod events that they were not making money on the F-bods, twords the end of production and that in 2000 GM had a move internally to build the Fbod with just v6 engines only until they stopped production in 2002. Scott fought that tooth and nail and fortunately won. GM knows they have new RWD chassis's on the way and have probably known for several years. Why not take the F-bod off the shelf, while still a bada!! car, get past all the obligations and mistakes with the CAW and bring it back under fresh circumstances and pick up where they left off.

The Canadia gvt. loaned gm alot of money to NOT shut down the plant back in the mid'80's(1987?). (I belive the amount was in the billions) and this loan should have matured in 2017. When it became apparent that this VERY old production facility was building one of the slowest selling cars in GM's inventory, it became apparent that something had to happen and this was just a really bad financial decision for GM in the first place. As part of the loan, the st. Theresae plant and the CAW owned the production rights of the fbody's. If theres no building, they cant build it but GM is still resposible for the money owed back. They have donated money to local college's and to lessen the financial impact on the area, they have opened additional shifts and positions at other production plants. But I dont think GM can legally build
camaro's again until the loan obligations are met, and I assume the sale of the property that the plant was on will help go twords that repayment. GM felt they could move the property easier as just land and not land with a seriously outdated factory. I think your exactly right, GM just got caught in a bad business deal and maybe they just didn't forecast how poorly sales were going to go. For what its worth, Scott S. said at one of the Fbod events that they were not making money on the F-bods, twords the end of production and that in 2000 GM had a move internally to build the Fbod with just v6 engines only until they stopped production in 2002. Scott fought that tooth and nail and fortunately won. GM knows they have new RWD chassis's on the way and have probably known for several years. Why not take the F-bod off the shelf, while still a bada!! car, get past all the obligations and mistakes with the CAW and bring it back under fresh circumstances and pick up where they left off.

I didn't want to go into such detail about everything that is going poorly for GM, because all of the manufacturers have these kind of problems.
It is called "the cost of doing business". There are recalls, lawsuits etc....
But GMCVT is correct, they just cannot start building them yet, for legal reasons.

Again, keep the faith.

Faith keeper
How can GOD BLESS AMERICA, if America wants to remove Him and His values from virtually every aspect of life?
Hug a Baby:Not a tree

I agree.

I didn't want to go into such detail about everything that is going poorly for GM, because all of the manufacturers have these kind of problems.
It is called "the cost of doing business". There are recalls, lawsuits etc....
But GMCVT is correct, they just cannot start building them yet, for legal reasons.

Again, keep the faith.

Faith keeper
How can GOD BLESS AMERICA, if America wants to remove Him and His values from virtually every aspect of life?
Hug a Baby:Not a tree

I agree.

As I have said before, I know GM has made some mistakes and this was one of them, but as a whole, no one has done more for the enthusiast than GM has, and we all make mistakes. I'm sure they will make it right. For what its worth, I absolutely LOVE my GTO. I know alot of people dont like it, but it is an excellent blend of Chevy horsepower and Cadillac ride :jest: . I will continue to keep the faith!! I also believe that Scott S. is by far our best cheerleader at GM.

As I have said before, I know GM has made some mistakes and this was one of them, but as a whole, no one has done more for the enthusiast than GM has, and we all make mistakes. I'm sure they will make it right. For what its worth, I absolutely LOVE my GTO. I know alot of people dont like it, but it is an excellent blend of Chevy horsepower and Cadillac ride :jest: . I will continue to keep the faith!! I also believe that Scott S. is by far our best cheerleader at GM.

I'll tell you what, the GTO has grown on me a lot. Sure it could have been more aggressive looking. And the utility of it was compromised to meet US crash standards. (It was not originally engineered for the US market)
I think it would be a great daily driver. The 05 is now that much nicer.
Cartek in Garwood has been modifying quite a few of these cars lately, from H & C to STS turbos and they are really responding well.
Sure they are close 4000 lbs with driver, but that extra power makes all the difference. Nice interior too.

Time will tell.

Time will tell.
Hey what color is that on your Camaro? Very nice...

Well the magic ferry told me this. As you know the XLR Caddy is made here in B.G. at the vette plant. Well supposedly This is the last year for the XLR. Cause of sales. So there is going to be a very pretty brand spanking new assembly line just sitting here in B.G. capable of building sports cars. Word is the revival might be right here in Bowling Green. But you never know. They will probably build some 4cyl ricer fighter, or a mini van on it. :jest:

Well the magic ferry told me this. As you know the XLR Caddy is made here in B.G. at the vette plant. Well supposedly This is the last year for the XLR. Cause of sales. So there is going to be a very pretty brand spanking new assembly line just sitting here in B.G. capable of building sports cars. Word is the revival might be right here in Bowling Green. But you never know. They will probably build some 4cyl ricer fighter, or a mini van on it. :jest:

Bowling Green huh?

They will still be making the Vette there and it has been there since 1981 so i am not sure what this size site could build. Also, is it getting outdated as well as the St Theresae plant was?


Link to B.G. (http://www.gmdynamic.com/company/gmability/environment/plants/facility_db/facility_summary.php?fID=113)

Nope XLR line is brand new. Also on the vette line the paint both and the frame line are state of the art robotic's. There probably around 5 years old. Also they just built a new plant here in B.G. called Magna. It is a totally brand new facility. They are stamping and assembling frames for SAAB. So it's basically a GM plant without the Union. Also B.G. is getting what they are calling an Air Park. Which is basically going to be a huge airport for freight. Come in on plane's and out on trains and trucks. The potential is definetly here. But you know only time will tell. The Camaro will definetly be back though.

Nope XLR line is brand new. Also on the vette line the paint both and the frame line are state of the art robotic's. There probably around 5 years old. Also they just built a new plant here in B.G. called Magna. It is a totally brand new facility. They are stamping and assembling frames for SAAB. So it's basically a GM plant without the Union. Also B.G. is getting what they are calling an Air Park. Which is basically going to be a huge airport for freight. Come in on plane's and out on trains and trucks. The potential is definetly here. But you know only time will tell. The Camaro will definetly be back though.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :cheers:

BTW is the Saab frame the same as the Malibu and G6? I heard they were sharing the same chasis.

Okay I found the article that could shed some light on everyones heartache about production of the Camaro
Popular Hot Rodding Sept 04 Volume 44 No 9 page 28
Rising from the Ashes is the title

yeah its the one with the pic

http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0409phr_camaro_13_z.jpg

only "half-way" decent drawing ive seen........ to retro for my tastes... would like to see GM steer clear from Ford's retro phase

if not ......i can always buy a Corvette http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif

yeah its the one with the pic

http://popularhotrodding.com/features/0409phr_camaro_13_z.jpg

only "half-way" decent drawing ive seen........ to retro for my tastes... would like to see GM steer clear from Ford's retro phase

if not ......i can always buy a Corvette http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif


I completely agree. Looks like all the other drawings are going in the wrong direction for the younger audience out there. I wouldn't say I love this particular one but it is one of the better ones I have seen. I would still much rather keep my 4th gen, buy other 4th gens, or buy a corvette (if I can afford it) than one of these new drawing camaros.

I also dont think I have done so much reading in my life :eek2: my eyes are strained, my back is sore from bad posture in a cheap chair, and I am still not too sure where this whole camaro thing is going. It is nice to know that gm is actually listening and reading on opinions of the whole situation. :drive:

I do not know why you all are complaining about the retro design from Kris Horton, it is incredibly bad ass. There would need to be some modifications to the body for it to work but still a bad ass drawing that many love. :bang:

to put it in the simplest of terms, if i wanted a 1st gen camaro , ide buy one...... leave the past where its at

i would like to see something more modern :)

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :cheers:

BTW is the Saab frame the same as the Malibu and G6? I heard they were sharing the same chasis.

Honestly I don't know about that one.