Automotive News, Media & Press - New Camaro!! Finally Official!!!

For those of you who don't know yet...
New Camaro (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106732)

You beat me to it (darn phone call). LOL


Here is the article for those that do not click the links:



Chevy Camaro Concept Slated for '06 Detroit Show, '09 Debut
Date Posted 08-04-2005

DETROIT — Chevrolet plans to take the wraps off a concept Camaro at the 2006 Detroit auto show in January.

Also, Inside Line has learned the automaker is evaluating proposals to revive the classic performance-car nameplate in 2009-2010 on a new low-cost rear-wheel-drive platform.

Among the scenarios under discussion inside General Motors is the development of a lower-cost version of the Sigma rear-drive platform that underpins the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans. Another proposal would take the new rear-drive platform that's being developed in Australia for the next-generation Holden Commodore sedan and spin off a low-cost variant for North America.

GM planners are said to have targeted several body styles for the Chevy and Pontiac brands on a new rear-drive platform, including a sport sedan, a sporty coupe and a convertible. The Camaro and GTO badges could be used on those vehicles, according to company sources.

Across town, Chrysler is said to be preparing a concept Dodge Challenger for the '06 Detroit show, to test the market for a proposed two-door performance car it wants to introduce around 2008-2009 as a potential competitor to the Ford Mustang.

What this means to you: Guess it was just a matter of time and environmental awareness — the original definition of muscle cars doesn't fit well with new perceptions of what's best for the world...could there be a "green" muscle car in our future?

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3300493#post3300493

Chevy Camaro Concept Slated for '06 Detroit Show, '09 Debut
Date Posted 08-04-2005

DETROIT — Chevrolet plans to take the wraps off a concept Camaro at the 2006 Detroit auto show in January.

Also, Inside Line has learned the automaker is evaluating proposals to revive the classic performance-car nameplate in 2009-2010 on a new low-cost rear-wheel-drive platform.

Among the scenarios under discussion inside General Motors is the development of a lower-cost version of the Sigma rear-drive platform that underpins the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans. Another proposal would take the new rear-drive platform that's being developed in Australia for the next-generation Holden Commodore sedan and spin off a low-cost variant for North America.

GM planners are said to have targeted several body styles for the Chevy and Pontiac brands on a new rear-drive platform, including a sport sedan, a sporty coupe and a convertible. The Camaro and GTO badges could be used on those vehicles, according to company sources.

Across town, Chrysler is said to be preparing a concept Dodge Challenger for the '06 Detroit show, to test the market for a proposed two-door performance car it wants to introduce around 2008-2009 as a potential competitor to the Ford Mustang.

What this means to you: Guess it was just a matter of time and environmental awareness — the original definition of muscle cars doesn't fit well with new perceptions of what's best for the world...could there be a "green" muscle car in our future?



http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106732

My personal thoughts are this:


GM should have NEVER cancelled it.

GM should have it here by 2007 (No freakin excuses).

GM is too F***ing slow in getting it here.




But...


At least it is coming. :nod:

I guess this just backs up part of what Scott said at G9 :)

Uuummm, yeah, it's all good but.......... 2009-2010 come on, that's ridiculous. Everyone will have moved on by then, nice one GM. :zzz:

Then again... Better late then never
And they have to one up the Mustang & Dodge's future Challenger, otherwise it'll be pointless to have caused this whole hiatus and come out a step behind the competition...

so its just the Camaro???? How about the FireBird???? Thats what i want back........... anyone know....???

so its just the Camaro???? How about the FireBird???? Thats what i want back........... anyone know....???

My personal thoughts are this:


GM should have NEVER cancelled it.

GM should have it here by 2007 (No freakin excuses).

GM is too F***ing slow in getting it here.




But...


At least it is coming. :nod:

Let's add -

GM management should have white hot branding irons shoved straight up their asses for twinning the GTO and Camaro.

And have their fucking balls cut off for not bringing back the Firebird.


How in the fucking hell can you take a mid-size muscle car and twin it with a pony car? How the fuck can you bring back the boring Camaro and not the better looking (and traditionally, better performing) twin? :bang:

Fucking worthless bastards.

:mad:

Im as happy as a little school girl;) I just Hope GM doesnt let me down on Design

Cool! I'll be making a road trip again come January :)

so its just the Camaro???? How about the FireBird???? Thats what i want back........... anyone know....???

yeah thats what i want to know, they cant bring back one without the imo better one :judge:

FINALLY!!!! It looks like i will be saving my money now then..Hopefully the design is as bad ass as i am hoping..

WooHoo!!!! Now I just have to wait for '09. Please GM, don't mess this one up for me!

FINALLY!!!! It looks like i will be saving my money now then..Hopefully the design is as bad ass as i am hoping..

My guess on engines:

240 HP 3.9L
303 HP 5.3L
400 HP 6.0L

:secret:

No Pictures!!!

all i have to say is finnaly someone over there realized that teh camaro shouldnt have been cancel and is bringing it back.

Probably won't be any pictures until the NAIAS, unless they are leaked.

i don't like how it ended:

What this means to you: Guess it was just a matter of time and environmental awareness — the original definition of muscle cars doesn't fit well with new perceptions of what's best for the world...could there be a "green" muscle car in our future?

as far as the firebird, even when they killed the f-body didn't they say that "more than likely" the camaro would come back, but the firebird was done?

not that things can't change.......well, 2009 has the potential to be a fun year...new dodge challenger and camaro...possibly...

Im still not going to believe it till I see it. Not saying thats its not coming. But once they make one then Ill believe it..

http://members.cox.net/xunil76/newchallenger01.jpg

if ya havent seen the challenger ..here it is

http://members.cox.net/xunil76/newchallenger01.jpg

if ya havent seen the challenger ..here it is

I believe that's a photoshop from a magazine. They would have to call that a Cuda.

I believe that's a photoshop from a magazine. They would have to call that a Cuda.
well what ever you want to call it it still looks sweet

as far as the firebird, even when they killed the f-body didn't they say that "more than likely" the camaro would come back, but the firebird was done?

That's how I remember it.

Let's add -

GM management should have white hot branding irons shoved straight up their asses for twinning the GTO and Camaro.

And have their fucking balls cut off for not bringing back the Firebird.


How in the fucking hell can you take a mid-size muscle car and twin it with a pony car? How the fuck can you bring back the boring Camaro and not the better looking (and traditionally, better performing) twin? :bang:

Fucking worthless bastards.

:mad:

a-men brother. a-men.

No 'bird, no bux from Boba..

It will be more than 400HP..Right now the 6.1 Hemi is 425 and GM WONT get caught with there pants down again.I think we'll see a 6.3 to 6.6 LSx based engine producing 450 in the 5th Gen F-Car..

It will be more than 400HP..Right now the 6.1 Hemi is 425 and GM WONT get caught with there pants down again.I think we'll see a 6.3 to 6.6 LSx based engine producing 450 in the 5th Gen F-Car..

actually the few 6.1s that have been dynoed are showing 450-470 at the flywheel........

they need to make the new car light weight, and by then i'm sure a new ls or beyond engine will be available......i can't imagine a mass produced muscle car will see much more hp than what we are seeing right now from the factory.....

It will be more than 400HP..Right now the 6.1 Hemi is 425 and GM WONT get caught with there pants down again.I think we'll see a 6.3 to 6.6 LSx based engine producing 450 in the 5th Gen F-Car..

I agree, Muscle Car = Horsepower.

Lighter is better, but HP is cheaper than losing weight to gain performance.

The way horsepower is going these days the top engine offered could be 500 hp no problem. Think LS7.
It won't be such a big deal by 2009/2010.
The only way this could be derailed is by higher fuel prices and or some type of HP limit laws imposed by the Fed. Gov.
(Higher insurance will only limit the # of buyers)

My .02

i don't like how it ended:



as far as the firebird, even when they killed the f-body didn't they say that "more than likely" the camaro would come back, but the firebird was done?

not that things can't change.......well, 2009 has the potential to be a fun year...new dodge challenger and camaro...possibly...


I looked up what PHR quoted Bob as saying. Here it tis:


Quote from PHR:
"GM's product boss Bob Lutz says, "Firebird's day is gone." Nevertheless, look for Lutz to endow Pontiac with performance models such as GTO and Solstice in the coming years. The coming Zeta platform which will underpin future Camaros will also be the basis for the GTO."




IMHO that Suck Ass Big Time!

I would much rather see the Firebird again than an Ill-gotten GTO.

But, I am grateful the Camaro is coming.

SWEET FANCY MOSES! They finally came to their senses!


-Mike

Just like the old days when the 64 stang came out the others were a few years behind, well today we have a new mustang and a few years later we will have 2 muscle cars from the other big two.

I still won't believe it until I see it... or some sort of confirmation from the General.

I hate GM dealerships. They will cost an arm and a leg to get one and they will guard them like they're plated in gold...... It'll problably cost close to the equivalent of what a Corvette costs today, and I bet there will be some sort of gas price or environmental reason to limit horsepower in 2010 so the car wont have have the balls of today's LS1. It'll be a repeat of the 1984 redesign. F#ck GM! :mad:

We all have high hopes but I'm not going to believe a thing until I can go buy one. With my luck they will probably be set for release and some tree hugger will complain and they will have to stop production so they can sell little 4 bangers. Damn treehuggers :dark:

Excuse the language, I'm pissed off because my car was almost destroyed by a teenage girl earlier today.

09-10? Please. Dont debut the damn car in 06, and make us wait 3-4 years. They'll of had 4 years already to bring this back, so another 4 doesnt sound like great customer appreciation in my book.

By then there would be enough people pissed off watchin GT500 owners run 10s w/ tune, boost, tires and exhaust that they wont care what this new Camaro does. 09-10...im not waiting quite that long.

i'll believe it when i see it. i have a feeling though that if we do see it, it's gonna either be a nostalgia design like the mustang, or a HUGE disappointment like the GTO. and what the hell is with them pairing it with the GTO anyways? waiting until 09 is bullshit.

The reason why they won't bring back the Firebird is because of the GTO.

My personal thoughts are this:


GM should have NEVER cancelled it.

GM should have it here by 2007 (No freakin excuses).

GM is too F***ing slow in getting it here.




But...


At least it is coming. :nod:

What you don't understand is they HAD to cancel it. Killing the f-body for a few years was the only way they could get out of the St. Teresa contract. Politics killed the f-body, but don't worry, it will be back.

I agree, Muscle Car = Horsepower.

Lighter is better, but HP is cheaper than losing weight to gain performance.

The way horsepower is going these days the top engine offered could be 500 hp no problem. Think LS7.
It won't be such a big deal by 2009/2010.
The only way this could be derailed is by higher fuel prices and or some type of HP limit laws imposed by the Fed. Gov.
(Higher insurance will only limit the # of buyers)

My .02

the end of your statement is kind of what i was getting at....i'm not saying that companies can't build 500hp muscle cars in mass quantities, just that so many factors(insurance, fuel, safety, ect.) are going to limit it......i can't remember if it was colletti or jon moss that said they are pretty much at the limit with what they are going to churn out hp-wise, so they are looking at other ways to up performance....not that either of those guys hasn't been wrong before

i don't care what it is called, as long as GM makes a decent looking rear wheel drive v8 making 400+ horses. that is way too long to wait though. i WILL have a GT500 by then

Good to see the rest of the world catching up to what I've known for 6 weeks. :D

We all have high hopes but I'm not going to believe a thing until I can go buy one. With my luck they will probably be set for release and some tree hugger will complain and they will have to stop production so they can sell little 4 bangers. Damn treehuggers :dark:

Excuse the language, I'm pissed off because my car was almost destroyed by a teenage girl earlier today.
what did she do to it like wreck it or scratch it

its a good day now

ill believe it when i see it. better be quick, im itching for a Cobra......they are starting to grow on me.

Id be surprised if the top of line model (I assume SS) gets anything over 400hp. You know GM's little "cant beat the Corvette" rule. It will probably have the 400hp LS2, rated at 385hp so the C6 boys dont get upset. :judge:

yeah my dad works for gm and have know about the camaro coming back, he hasn't said anything about the firebird, but i think it depends on how the gto works out, and the corvette rule does exist, cars can come close in hp, but can't surpass it

Id be surprised if the top of line model (I assume SS) gets anything over 400hp. You know GM's little "cant beat the Corvette" rule. It will probably have the 400hp LS2, rated at 385hp so the C6 boys dont get upset. :judge:

i think we can safely assume that by 2009 we will be past the ls2 for current production.....

ill believe it when i see it. better be quick, im itching for a Cobra......they are starting to grow on me.
I agree with you man. I think it sounds like a good deal but the only thing that would hold me back is the blue oval on the front. GM better hurry.

My guess on engines:

240 HP 3.9L
303 HP 5.3L
400 HP 6.0L

:secret:

Im w/you on the engine choices, although i think the car may get a 425hp option...
I agree, Muscle Car = Horsepower.

Lighter is better, but HP is cheaper than losing weight to gain performance.

The way horsepower is going these days the top engine offered could be 500 hp no problem. Think LS7.
It won't be such a big deal by 2009/2010.
The only way this could be derailed is by higher fuel prices and or some type of HP limit laws imposed by the Fed. Gov.
(Higher insurance will only limit the # of buyers)

My .02

HP is going up, but i dont think GM will ever put the ls7 in a fbod, think about it, they've never put a full ls6 motor in a 4th gen..(given the block, but still ls1 heads) To make a camaro a competitor w/the zo6 is not GM, a ls7 5th gen would destroy a c6 and GM wont have that, the motor alone would make the car too expensive, and it seems to me that gm is realizing that cheap HP sells.

I think that the camaro may come w/a 425hp option by 2010, just because of the 425hp motor thats going in the GNX, im guessing a ls2 or ls2 variant, i think it would be kind of cool if the z28 was king of the hill like it had been before, and not the SS. I bet by 2010 the vette will see a boost in power on the base model, maybe 450 and the zo6 at 550 or 600, this is all purely my thoughts/hopes, dont take them as fact, its just what i think, but now i have a dilema, mod the TA, or save the the camaro/gto?

.....at least its coming back.

I think that the camaro may come w/a 425hp option by 2010, just because of the 425hp motor thats going in the GNX....

??? something else that you'd like to share????

i'm guessing your getting this info based on a fake gnx pic and spec sheet that's been floating around for a while, i don't believe there is any real info out there to support this.....

Realistically, the Camaro could hit the streets much earlier than 2009 :secret2:.

It will likely have the engines mentioned. My guess on engines:

240 HP 3.9L
303 HP 5.3L
400 HP 6.0L
Likely at about 390hp, though, as the top end. The possible variance would be if the Corvette's hp got increased (which is very possible).

I thought the idea was to get the car out extremely fast?

Realistically, the Camaro could hit the streets much earlier than 2009 :secret2:.

It will likely have the engines mentioned.
Likely at about 390hp, though, as the top end. The possible variance would be if the Corvette's hp got increased (which is very possible).

why would they bother rating it at 390 when the gto already has one rated the same as the vette?

how are they getting around the issue with montreal? or are they building it there? paying them off?

and if it waits till 2009 it's not really gonna have one of the current power plants is it?

inquiring minds want to know:)

well, I know that if it has 4 doors like every other car now-a-days, no mney is coming it's way from me.

why would they bother rating it at 390 when the gto already has one rated the same as the vette?

how are they getting around the issue with montreal? or are they building it there? paying them off?

and if it waits till 2009 it's not really gonna have one of the current power plants is it?

inquiring minds want to know:)I'll address these as I understand the answers with the limited insight I have (which could prove to be more or less than others).

1. Because, as already mentioned, they do have a "rule" that keeps the Corvette as the top dog. FWIW, I don't know the justification GM execs have for it, but I imagine it's along the lines of the other vehicles GM offers with the same power as the Corvette are in different product lines and don't match the vette in overall performance.

2. It will not be manufactured at that plant. It will likely be in MI, possibly Lansing. While I don't know of a final settlement concerning the issue of name use, the fact that they are releasing a build date would clearly demonstrate that it has been resolved.

3. As I said, it's likely the Camaro will hit the streets much sooner than 2009, which would certainly dictate the use of those engines. Even if it does come out around then, you'll know what to expect as a powerplant by looking at the vette.

I looked up what PHR quoted Bob as saying. Here it tis:


Quote from PHR:
"GM's product boss Bob Lutz says, "Firebird's day is gone." Nevertheless, look for Lutz to endow Pontiac with performance models such as GTO and Solstice in the coming years. The coming Zeta platform which will underpin future Camaros will also be the basis for the GTO."




IMHO that Suck Ass Big Time!

I would much rather see the Firebird again than an Ill-gotten GTO.

But, I am grateful the Camaro is coming.
I say we go kill Bob Lutz for that statement, anyone with me? lol
man id love to beat his ass for that

i think the only way we are getting the firebird back is if we kill the GTO (which sucks), but personally , if the the GTO stays on the path it's on i'd MUCH rather see a new firebird (with more cubes)

Supercharged ls2 seems to be a strong rumor lately (from GM/not aftermarket)

Whatever GM decides to power up the new camaro I really don't think the corvette guys will give a sh!t.

2009 is a long @ss lead time though...

Ya 2009 is a LONG time away! I hope its just a badass ride! :burn: I was gonna start saving money for a truck, maybe I'll just start saving for a new Camaro! :devil:

actually the few 6.1s that have been dynoed are showing 450-470 at the flywheel........

It wasn't net though. That was gross without any accessories. I forget what mag it was, but they did the test to see how the new 6.1 compared to the old 426. Since they couldn't put together a new 426 assembly to test net power, they just made the 6.1 up like it woudl have been in 1970 to test gross.

2009 is a long @ss lead time though...

Yes, it is...

this has been thoroughly discussed on Camaroz28.com

2009 is too far away. It will more likely be 2008.

Even 2008 is too far away. It would be awesome if they could cut a Camaro loose by '07 just in time to celebrate 40 years. Well, sorta 40.:rolleyes:

Even 2008 is too far away. It would be awesome if they could cut a Camaro loose by '07 just in time to celebrate 40 years. Well, sorta 40.:rolleyes:That is quite possible (consider the platform it is being built on).

Even 2008 is too far away. It would be awesome if they could cut a Camaro loose by '07 just in time to celebrate 40 years. Well, sorta 40.:rolleyes:


Ya that would be awesome if they would re-release it as an anniversary car! I'll take 2 please!

this has been thoroughly discussed on Camaroz28.com

2009 is too far away. It will more likely be 2008.
or 2007. specifically june/july of 2007 as a 2008 model?

It wasn't net though. That was gross without any accessories. I forget what mag it was, but they did the test to see how the new 6.1 compared to the old 426. Since they couldn't put together a new 426 assembly to test net power, they just made the 6.1 up like it woudl have been in 1970 to test gross..


i'm not talking about any engine dyno tests, i'm talking about chassis dynos where a couple stock srt 8 magnums and a 300 srt 8 make 370 hp and ft#s at the wheels.....

btw, did that motor trend test show them both at 367hp?

btw, did that motor trend test show them both at 367hp?

No, the original engine put down 467 observed SAE gross horsepower. They said this was with the engineers using different headers, race fuel etc. to get the numbers up. Then SRT did the same thing with the present engine because it was the only way to match them up, using headers, race fuel, etc. and they also put down 467.

I thought the idea was to get the car out extremely fast?

It is. Lutz is pissed because of how long the Solstice has taken to go from concept to dealership lot, and they're still not in dealerships. GM is trying to speed up the design/production cycles of all their cars to get them to market faster to react to market changes better. So if they're bringing it back for the Auto show this Jan. I can't see it taking nearly that long ot actually bring it to market.

btw, did that motor trend test show them both at 367hp?

No, the original engine put down 467 observed SAE gross horsepower. They said this was with the engineers using different headers, race fuel etc. to get the numbers up. Then SRT did the same thing with the present engine because it was the only way to match them up, using headers, race fuel, etc. and they also put down 467.

so that would be yes, then....

I'll be impressed if they can go from the 2006 concept to 2008 production of a 2009 model. It took 11 years (1982) for the California Camaro concept to become the production 4th Gen.

For a late 2008 new model launch, they'd have to have the design 95% nailed already, so it's likely that the 2006 concept will be very much like the final production vehicle.

so that would be yes, then....

YES that they dynoed the same, but no since they dynoed 467 instead of 367.

Posted on another forum... :secret2:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8100/cdnportfolio266267ae.jpg

YES that they dynoed the same, but no since they dynoed 467 instead of 367.

oh yeah,i'm a moron........i meant 467, but i had been looking at a chart that showed 367 at the wheels so i confused myself.....doesn't take much

Im gonna start saving now ! I hope GM does muck it up!

Sucks that there will be no Birds, its bitter sweet, cool that the camaro is coming back, better not look or weigh anything like the current gto, though I kinda like the gto, and if with the gt500's and the 425 hp hemi, GM needs to put more punch in their performance cars. Good news overall though but it should have stayed in production.

Sucks that there will be no Birds, its bitter sweet, cool that the camaro is coming back, better not look or weigh anything like the current gto, though I kinda like the gto, and if with the gt500's and the 425 hp hemi, GM needs to put more punch in their performance cars. Good news overall though but it should have stayed in production.

Well GM cant let the 400hp Corvette get in their way if they want to compete w/ the GT500. The SRT Hemi's are going to be a "problem" but they're more luxury performance sedans than sport coupes, so I think GM shouldnt be "too" worried about them in performance, but more in sales.

They've got 505hp in the Z06, so IMO they've got some room to play w/ as far as the top of the line Camaro rating. But I still think 425/435hp should be sufficient for most of us for an SS/Z28 wtf ever they call it.

Posted on another forum... :secret2:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8100/cdnportfolio266267ae.jpg



Link? :secret2:

I'll be impressed if they can go from the 2006 concept to 2008 production of a 2009 model. It took 11 years (1982) for the California Camaro concept to become the production 4th Gen.
The California Camaro concept was shown in 1989. Still 4 years though....

Hell, by 2009-10, they will probably need 550-600 HP to compete with the Cobras and SRT series cars, not to mention the rumors of the Challenger coming back. Just PLEASE don't use the 10 bolt again and use tq management to try to make it live. :eyes: By then, give us 450-500 HP base, with maybe a forced induction option for the ZO6 and top of the line camaro. And a drivetrain with plenty of strength to build on. I still won't believe its coming back until I see it though.

better be quick, im itching for a Cobra
Understandable considering wrecked, stolen, and repoed?! :eek2:
Wow, looks like you haven't had a lot of success with Camaros.

FUCK GM, FUCK TREEHUGGERS, FUCK THE CARS OF 2010 RUNNING ON SUGAR OR SOME SHIT.....
i want something htat gets terrible gas mileage, pisses off everyone else, looks simple but good, makes great fucking power, and gets it to the ground, has a great aftermarket, and a great board to post about it on....



WAIT, i already have that all here with my 02 z28 and YOU GUYS! :chug:

pisses off everyone else
Your car pisses off everyone else?

Seems like most people get more compliments than complaints.

Link? :secret2:

http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2432

Bleh, looks like :barf:

Hmmm, my 04 Blazer daily should be paid by then, my 93 should also be done. Hmmm, perhaps a new daily driver as I dont plan to keep this Blazer.

What kind of price? 40k? Who the hell can afford that?

It is. Lutz is pissed because of how long the Solstice has taken to go from concept to dealership lot, and they're still not in dealerships. GM is trying to speed up the design/production cycles of all their cars to get them to market faster to react to market changes better. So if they're bringing it back for the Auto show this Jan. I can't see it taking nearly that long ot actually bring it to market.I'm sorry, when did the Solstice get premiered (January 2004)? Oh, yeah the first of them were just delivered this week (8/5). That's a lead time of about 20 months. Not bad at all in the auto industry, especially since the release was delayed.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18294

Link? :secret2:
Looks pretty good, imo. That hood looks really looooong. Maybe there will be room to change spark plugs now. I imagine the front and rear end styling plus the wheels will probably change from the concept to production model. They'll want to camoflage it a little bit.

why would they bother rating it at 390 when the gto already has one rated the same as the vette?

how are they getting around the issue with montreal? or are they building it there? paying them off?

and if it waits till 2009 it's not really gonna have one of the current power plants is it?

inquiring minds want to know:)



St. Tereasa I do believe lasts through 2007, not 2009. I'm still curious about chassis and whether its IRS or Live Rear. I hope for the latter.

meh, on the pic posted...rather see an almost copy of the horton renderings. That would make me line up!

the concept pic looks interesting, i hope they use some retro cues, but with more modern lines. but not so direct like the new mustang, all this retro looking stuff is getting on my nerves. i hope they have a nice blend of both in something that retains the image of the camaro : performance, affordability, sleek aggressive lines, low and wide (not tall and boxy like the stang).

some nice features would be
~glass roof panels (duh)
~real true dual exhaust (no y-pipe) :judge:
~no charge manual tranny (like before) Z06 spec tranny would be nice, w/ stronger clutch
~solid axle w/ IRS option
~nice aluminum accents for interior, no plastic crap
~nice place to store tops so they dont take up the entire trunk
~no hump on passenger floorboard
~stronger rear (bye bye 10 bolt)
~stereo w/ MP3 player hookup (aux port), MP3 CD capability, in dash changer, etc..

it would also be nice to have a stronger aftermarket for parts and options, *cough* like the mustang *cough*.

i am exceited they are coming back, but i would rather for them to take thier time and get it right than hurry the process and screw it up. we have been waiting a while for this so i hope they get it right....

Posted on another forum... :secret2:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8100/cdnportfolio266267ae.jpg

That is a concept LINCOLN model done by a design student.
See this link:
http://www.cardesignnews.com/portfolios/cdn_pf_page.php?portfolioID=2662

^ damn i was just about to post that link

I'm sorry, when did the Solstice get premiered (January 2004)? Oh, yeah the first of them were just delivered this week (8/5). That's a lead time of about 20 months. Not bad at all in the auto industry, especially since the release was delayed.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=18294

I didn't say I thought it was slow, 20 months is good time. I just read that Lutz wanted the development to be even faster, so the next major design he was looking to speed up even more.

That picture looks a lot like the rear end of the Chrysler Firepower.

I would like the new Camaro to have a trunk much like the Monte Carlo (no hatchback), not so rounded styling like GTO but smoother lines than the Mustang, lighter weight option ( no air, no power windows etc.), stronger rear strait axle, inline 5 cylinder or strong LSX motor option.

This can be fun and very profitable GM, screw frontwheel drive.

I didn't say I thought it was slow, 20 months is good time. I just read that Lutz wanted the development to be even faster, so the next major design he was looking to speed up even more.Well, holy rusted metal, Batman! Garsh, did I read your post wrong! Sorry :bang:.

At least what I said supported what you said if you ignore the sarcasm :).

That is very good news, but I will belive it when I see it.

Put a good rear in and get rid of the hatchback. That's the only things I hope significantly change.

Id be surprised if the top of line model (I assume SS) gets anything over 400hp. You know GM's little "cant beat the Corvette" rule. It will probably have the 400hp LS2, rated at 385hp so the C6 boys dont get upset. :judge:

I dont know about that SSR has 400hp, GTO400hp, CTSV 400hp STSV440hp,

my guess would be no IRS, and 3500lbs +

good...by that time the ss will be paid off..ill be out of college and ill have plenty o' $$$ to get one

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3300493#post3300493
GM planners are said to have targeted several body styles for the Chevy and Pontiac brands on a new rear-drive platform, including a sport sedan, a sporty coupe and a convertible. The Camaro and GTO badges could be used on those vehicles, according to company sources.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106732

They better NOT use a "sport sedan" design! :mad:

hopefully its not that newstalgia bullsh!t...and 2009-10? if dodge relaeases a challenger or cuda that looks anything like that with some power...sold!!!!!! i love my ram and ill buy another dodge product anyday...

my $ .02, cam

Hell, by 2009-10, they will probably need 550-600 HP to compete with the Cobras and SRT series cars, not to mention the rumors of the Challenger coming back. Just PLEASE don't use the 10 bolt again and use tq management to try to make it live. :eyes: By then, give us 450-500 HP base, with maybe a forced induction option for the ZO6 and top of the line camaro. And a drivetrain with plenty of strength to build on. I still won't believe its coming back until I see it though.


450-500 base vette will be 60k+ and a force induction Z06 will be @ least 80. Yeah, its great for performance junkies but you also dont want to push your customer base out of vehicles that've made a name for themselves for 50+ years on affordability. It still sounds like everyone's wanting a 50k car on a 25k budget. 450hp, force induction, a drivetrain w/ plenty of strength to mod up? These things sound all well and good but remember, it's going to come @ a cost. We thought 4th gen's were $$$ @ the dealer, wait till 5th gens hit the showroom w/ specs like that :eek2:

450-500 base vette will be 60k+ and a force induction Z06 will be @ least 80. Yeah, its great for performance junkies but you also dont want to push your customer base out of vehicles that've made a name for themselves for 50+ years on affordability. It still sounds like everyone's wanting a 50k car on a 25k budget. 450hp, force induction, a drivetrain w/ plenty of strength to mod up? These things sound all well and good but remember, it's going to come @ a cost. We thought 4th gen's were $$$ @ the dealer, wait till 5th gens hit the showroom w/ specs like that :eek2:


why? the cobra did it for 33k. by the time the camaro is ready for production a slightly detuned ls7 would work nicely with a good drivetrain. with 7 liters to play with i dont think many people would complain that it wasnt FI :devil: .

Dont get me wrong, Im all up for a 450hp car as a base w/ a killer suspension, and engine package but I also know it wont be cheap.

My original comments were aimed more towards a base vehicle being in that range. Yeah, thats all well and good for the Vette to be priced high, but the Camaro? Even the Cobra @ 33k isnt bulletproof. Its got flaws, which the GT500 is improving upon. An SS or top of the line Camaro costing about the same as a GT500 I can see, but a base vehicle? I dont think so.

i hope the SS or top of the line model, whatever they call it, isnt going to be $40k+ like the GT500, i think its more like 45k. but i could be wrong. i think it would be nice to have a FI version with a forged bottom end so we could make some easy hp like the 03-04 cobra guys. but again this would all come at a price. i think they should offer more than 3 versions this time around.

I just hope GM will still offer it with crank windows/no locks/no cruise, you get the idea. I loved having a 300 lb advantage over everyone else's LS1 cars!

Oh yeah, a hardtop also.

Just like the 60s, GM plays catch up to Ford and is years late to the pony party with their own "me too!" car.

2009 is a long ways off, if you like the new GT500 you best buy one and see what GM has for you by then.

I think it sounds like a good deal but the only thing that would hold me back is the blue oval on the front. GM better hurry.

Why? GM may be my favorite, but that will never prevent me from buying and thoroughly enjoying awesome Chrysler or Ford products. The new GT500 is going to be a killer car and probably remain that way. I've never understood disliking other cars because some other company than the favorite produces them.

I firmly believe we've seen the last of the "nice" F-bodies.

IF we even do see another F-body, I'm sure it will be just like someone else has already stated; a retro version simular to the new Mustangs, or some goofy platform like the GTO. Either way, it won't the same F-body styling that I've come to love from the '83-'02 Camaro's/Firebird's.

As far as power/drivetrain, if they're waiting 'til '09-'10 to make this happen there's no telling. So much has time to change between now and then. IMO, these recent "horsepower wars" are just a fad. I don't see this lasting but so much longer. I mean we've already exceeded HP over all of the "classic muscle cars" from back in the day. And we all know what happend with that. Ever heard of history repeating itself?? If you had asked someone in the early '90s their opinion on having streetlegal factory cars making 4-500HP they would've said "No way, sounds like your talking about a racecar." Say what you want, but I see this recent jump in higher HP coming to an end here before long.


I agree that I won't believe it (the Camaro coming back) 'til I see one on the lot.

And if they do I won't be expecting much. IMO the best we can do is remeber what HAVE NOW, and where we started/came from. Remember. Just like the ol' geezers you see at car shows standing beside their pristine '67-'69 Camaro/Firebird muttering "They just don't make 'em like this anymore." Before long, that'll be us....












Jon

I know that there are some that think the retro design will not work and that GM should be different than Ford but I think a new Camaro or Firebird with retro queues would be perfect.

One reason for this is that when I am out and run into a new Mustang it will be cool to have them both with similiar styling. Having retro queues does not mean it will be old technology. After all the new Mustang is built better than any previous Stang and offers more.

IMO if the new Camaro is retro then it will have a better chance at large sales which can only spell success. If the Camaro is successful then there is hope of a Firebird rebirth as well. And, for me that is the most important of all.

As much as I want a Camaro return, I want a Firebird return even more.




Jack

That is a concept LINCOLN model done by a design student.
See this link:
http://www.cardesignnews.com/portfolios/cdn_pf_page.php?portfolioID=2662


There is a discussion at another site about the lines not being consistant with the Lincoln that site claims the design is for.

Also, if Ford took that concept with those lines it would be too much like the 1st gen F-Body design and a lawsuit may happen.

IMO, those lines look good for a Camaro but not a Lincoln.


Here is the link to the discussion if interested:

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15967&page=35&pp=20

I know that there are some that think the retro design will not work and that GM should be different than Ford but I think a new Camaro or Firebird with retro queues would be perfect.

One reason for this is that when I am out and run into a new Mustang it will be cool to have them both with similiar styling. Having retro queues does not mean it will be old technology. After all the new Mustang is built better than any previous Stang and offers more.

IMO if the new Camaro is retro then it will have a better chance at large sales which can only spell success. If the Camaro is successful then there is hope of a Firebird rebirth as well. And, for me that is the most important of all.

As much as I want a Camaro return, I want a Firebird return even more.




Jack
as long as the new one shares lines witht the rest of the camaros its all good, the new charger has no lines from its original. it has no heritage. now if gm builds a new car with physical heritage then all will be fine. hell i can see lines that the 4th gen shares with the first...

that model looks bad a$$ to me! i would buy it.

It's good to see horsepower wars starting again........

Of course.....

$3.00+ gallons of gasoline will end it quick

as long as the new one shares lines witht the rest of the camaros its all good, the new charger has no lines from its original. it has no heritage. now if gm builds a new car with physical heritage then all will be fine. hell i can see lines that the 4th gen shares with the first...Along those lines, trace the evolution of the Camaro and Corvette - each one builds off of each other. That is why even the 35th iteration has some similarities with the 1st without ever having had a retro styling. I'd like to see a full retro design myself, but this would be divergent from the history of the Camaro. If they were designing the T-bird or Mustang however...

http://www.arkansascamaro.com/2007camaro.html

why do people keep posting those pics ^ weve seen them 100 times already


interesting how that "lincoln" looks like its painted SOM

Why do people keep being complete dickheads for no reason? Maybe some pople havent seen them, they are pretty new to me. What "lincoln" are you referring to??

http://www.arkansascamaro.com/2007camaro.html

There is some damn interesting info in that article. I really hope even half of it is true. 2007 would be perfect, since that is when my '02 is paid for!

Maybe I'll change my screenname to black02&07-Z28 :cool:

Ed

GM sucks for making this so late.. Light the fire under your asses, and get this car here. Better have alot of ass kicking power too or forget it. Hopefully it doesnt flop like the 04 GTO. Dont get me wrong the 04 GTO was a nice car, but the 05 smoked it in more than one way (more power, hood, pipes) for the same price. The 04s depreciated GREATLY. Do it right from the start. 450 hp MINIMUM and have a 500 HP SS.

No chance they will make a camaro even close to there flagship performance machine the LS7 Z06. I would like something mod for mod to keep up with the cobra. The 03-04s and the 07 GT 500. Maybe a forged 6.0 in the SS. Nothing blown, but something you can charge or spray with no worries

If GM keeps the Maro small and light with the LS2 (400 HP/lb ft and 3300 lbs--realistic weight goal) the Maro would be darn close to a Shelby--stock as a rock. I would rather have a smaller/lighter car like the 1st gen Maro's than a heavy gas sucker. A lighter vehicle would handle better and the LS2 would be easy to mod. A vehicle like that could be cheap and very modable. And, if it is aerodynamic like the 4th gens the gas mileage will be more improved than a retro Maro.

For those who think the firebird is dead. didn't the first firebird came out in 1968??? a year later the camaro was released, let's just hope gm makes one for 2010/1 you never now... i'm sorry but i just can't imagine a 505hp LS7 camaro maybe a berger special edition or something like that, i just can't expect more than 450hp in a camaro from GM either :mad:

The only requests I have are to bring back the Firebird, get a strong rearend and clutch, and get the damn motor out from under the windhsield!

For those who think the firebird is dead. didn't the first firebird came out in 1968??? a year later the camaro was released, let's just hope gm makes one for 2010/1 you never now... i'm sorry but i just can't imagine a 505hp LS7 camaro maybe a berger special edition or something like that, i just can't expect more than 450hp in a camaro from GM either :mad:


Firebird came out in 1967, the same year as the camaro. The Trans Am didn't arrive on the scene until 1969.

Firebird came out in 1967, the same year as the camaro. The Trans Am didn't arrive on the scene until 1969.

thanks ZEEMAN, anyway i think you guys get the point.

As much as I love the Kris Horton renderings, I would really like to see some REAL pics of what this car is intended to look like. My buddies and I are already planning a roadtrip for the NAIAS, but I would really hope that something could 'leak' out before that.

Where is NAIAS?

Detroit Michigan

What this means to you: Guess it was just a matter of time and environmental awareness — the original definition of muscle cars doesn't fit well with new perceptions of what's best for the world...could there be a "green" muscle car in our future?

That right there is :supergay:

A “green” muscle car is about as useful as a condom with a hole in it.

If the new Camaro is going to be some kind of an environmentalist-friendly USEPA ass kissing embodiment of Earth Day on wheels, then they can keep their underpowered, whisper quiet, super-efficient, gas-electric hybrid shitbag wuss of a car and stick it in their right eye socket for all I care.

I have certain expectations of ANY car that is going to wear the Camaro (or Firebird/Trans Am) nameplate. I expect a brute force, no apologies, badass, clean/bold/tough looking car with near Corvette power levels at a much more affordable price. It has to sound tough, be a V8, it MUST have two doors ONLY, and we need strong & efficient automatic and manual trans options to suit both drivetrain preferences on all model/trim levels. None of this manual trans only crap that Ford has done with the Cobra for 11 years.

I just hope they don’t screw this up and build some kind of a mechanical asshole that adds to a long string of disappointments that GM has been pushing on us ever since the F-body went away.

Sadly I’m sure the new Camaro will use DOD technology, which in my eyes has no place in a performance car. It’s a step in the wrong direction for a muscle car. I can see the usefulness of it for a truck/SUV, or even full-sized sedans, but not a Camaro. Not that DOD itself is the end of the world, but I fear that it's going to lead to continued concessions and EPA ass-kissing by GM as time goes by. When I go Camaro shopping, the last thing on my mind is how enviro-friendly the car will be. :barf:

That right there is :supergay:

A “green” muscle car is about as useful as a condom with a hole in it.

If the new Camaro is going to be some kind of an environmentalist-friendly USEPA ass kissing embodiment of Earth Day on wheels, then they can keep their underpowered, whisper quiet, super-efficient, gas-electric hybrid shitbag wuss of a car and stick it in their right eye socket for all I care.

I have certain expectations of ANY car that is going to wear the Camaro (or Firebird/Trans Am) nameplate. I expect a brute force, no apologies, badass, clean/bold/tough looking car with near Corvette power levels at a much more affordable price. It has to sound tough, be a V8, it MUST have two doors ONLY, and we need strong & efficient automatic and manual trans options to suit both drivetrain preferences on all model/trim levels. None of this manual trans only crap that Ford has done with the Cobra for 11 years.

I just hope they don’t screw this up and build some kind of a mechanical asshole that adds to a long string of disappointments that GM has been pushing on us ever since the F-body went away.

Sadly I’m sure the new Camaro will use DOD technology, which in my eyes has no place in a performance car. It’s a step in the wrong direction for a muscle car. I can see the usefulness of it for a truck/SUV, or even full-sized sedans, but not a Camaro. Not that DOD itself is the end of the world, but I fear that it's going to lead to continued concessions and EPA ass-kissing by GM as time goes by. When I go Camaro shopping, the last thing on my mind is how enviro-friendly the car will be. :barf:


Well said. I Agree 100%

cant wait for pics!

That right there is :supergay:

A “green” muscle car is about as useful as a condom with a hole in it.

If the new Camaro is going to be some kind of an environmentalist-friendly USEPA ass kissing embodiment of Earth Day on wheels, then they can keep their underpowered, whisper quiet, super-efficient, gas-electric hybrid shitbag wuss of a car and stick it in their right eye socket for all I care.

I have certain expectations of ANY car that is going to wear the Camaro (or Firebird/Trans Am) nameplate. I expect a brute force, no apologies, badass, clean/bold/tough looking car with near Corvette power levels at a much more affordable price. It has to sound tough, be a V8, it MUST have two doors ONLY, and we need strong & efficient automatic and manual trans options to suit both drivetrain preferences on all model/trim levels. None of this manual trans only crap that Ford has done with the Cobra for 11 years.

I just hope they don’t screw this up and build some kind of a mechanical asshole that adds to a long string of disappointments that GM has been pushing on us ever since the F-body went away.

Sadly I’m sure the new Camaro will use DOD technology, which in my eyes has no place in a performance car. It’s a step in the wrong direction for a muscle car. I can see the usefulness of it for a truck/SUV, or even full-sized sedans, but not a Camaro. Not that DOD itself is the end of the world, but I fear that it's going to lead to continued concessions and EPA ass-kissing by GM as time goes by. When I go Camaro shopping, the last thing on my mind is how enviro-friendly the car will be. :barf:

Well said :)

no one knows for sure if the firebird is gone for good??? and anyone have any new camaro pictures computer designed or drawn up??

the firebird is gone bro...sorry

I just hope GM will still offer it with crank windows/no locks/no cruise, you get the idea. I loved having a 300 lb advantage over everyone else's LS1 cars!

Oh yeah, a hardtop also.


300lbs less? That puts your car in Vette territory. I find it hard to believe that window motors, cruise control, AC, and doorlocks = 300lbs.

I'll be done with college in 07, which gives me about 2 years to save for the new Camaro....i don't care what it looks like...i'm buying it! I'll probably be married by then too....so I should probably save for the new Challenger for the wife! LOL. I'm sold on both.

That right there is :supergay:

A “green” muscle car is about as useful as a condom with a hole in it.

If the new Camaro is going to be some kind of an environmentalist-friendly USEPA ass kissing embodiment of Earth Day on wheels, then they can keep their underpowered, whisper quiet, super-efficient, gas-electric hybrid shitbag wuss of a car and stick it in their right eye socket for all I care.

I have certain expectations of ANY car that is going to wear the Camaro (or Firebird/Trans Am) nameplate. I expect a brute force, no apologies, badass, clean/bold/tough looking car with near Corvette power levels at a much more affordable price. It has to sound tough, be a V8, it MUST have two doors ONLY, and we need strong & efficient automatic and manual trans options to suit both drivetrain preferences on all model/trim levels. None of this manual trans only crap that Ford has done with the Cobra for 11 years.

I just hope they don’t screw this up and build some kind of a mechanical asshole that adds to a long string of disappointments that GM has been pushing on us ever since the F-body went away.

Sadly I’m sure the new Camaro will use DOD technology, which in my eyes has no place in a performance car. It’s a step in the wrong direction for a muscle car. I can see the usefulness of it for a truck/SUV, or even full-sized sedans, but not a Camaro. Not that DOD itself is the end of the world, but I fear that it's going to lead to continued concessions and EPA ass-kissing by GM as time goes by. When I go Camaro shopping, the last thing on my mind is how enviro-friendly the car will be. :barf:


What in the flying fuck is so gay about a car being more efficient? Let me guess..a car that gets 15mpg hwy more manly than a car that sounds and peforms better yet gets 30mpg hwy? A peice of shit unefficient gas hog(which the LS1 is far,far from) is more manly, I presume? :jest: :eyes: When I try to comprehend why some people hate efficiency its like having a damn anuerism, hernia, and sever case of the shits all at once. Do you love that this country eats out of OPEC's hand and that midle eastern royal families drive around in 24 gold plated cars?

Why is DOD such a step in the wrong direction? Would you be oposed to them finding a way to utilize variable valve timing in pushrod motors too?

Dont get me wrong, Im in no way wanting them to blaspheme the Camaro nameplate with a 4 or 6 or even underpowered V8, but I sure as hell hope they make it just as if not more so efficient as my LS1. EPA nuts arent going to give up, and rightfully damn so. As long as sports cars are amazingly efficient Im sure theyll keep their bitching aimed where it needs to be: on dog shit steel brick SUVs.

What in the flying fuck is so gay about a car being more efficient? Let me guess..a car that gets 15mpg hwy more manly than a car that sounds and peforms better yet gets 30mpg hwy? A peice of shit unefficient gas hog(which the LS1 is far,far from) is more manly, I presume? :jest: :eyes: When I try to comprehend why some people hate efficiency its like having a damn anuerism, hernia, and sever case of the shits all at once. Do you love that this country eats out of OPEC's hand and that midle eastern royal families drive around in 24 gold plated cars?

Why is DOD such a step in the wrong direction? Would you be oposed to them finding a way to utilize variable valve timing in pushrod motors too?

Dont get me wrong, Im in no way wanting them to blaspheme the Camaro nameplate with a 4 or 6 or even underpowered V8, but I sure as hell hope they make it just as if not more so efficient as my LS1. EPA nuts arent going to give up, and rightfully damn so. As long as sports cars are amazingly efficient Im sure theyll keep their bitching aimed where it needs to be: on dog shit steel brick SUVs.


Right on! :judge:

2009/2010 is a far way off. Just think how much money you can save up by then........LOL

2009/2010 is a far way off. Just think how much money you can save up by then........LOL


If you were setout to buy one and started saving now I can EASILY see being able to pay cash for it lol

I don't need a 2009, 2010 camaro, whatever year its gonna come out. Same goes with the new(supposedly) Challenger, new Cobras, Z06s. Nice cars yes, but I'm happy with my TA. It has on/off light switch, AC, power windows, a stereo, and thats it. I hate heated seats, 10 diff't light switches, climate control, power roof. If I want more power, I'll just buy a crate engine. I want to be happy with what I have, and not get an obsessive boner for these new near unobtainable cars.

I somehow forgot about this thread.... After reading all the posts, I finally have space for more of my opinions.

If the "new" Camaro comes out in 2007 you're likely to see the LS2 6.0L engine, maybe with some type of FIl. They would stay with that engine, but go with FI as it wouldnt mess up the gas consumption too much, but pack a big punch. Sure it will come with only 5 psi or whatever they tried with the GTP engines, which can easily be changed. The Engine would offer a Forged bottom in this case, which is good for spray or more boost as well. That would be a win/win option for 2007.

If the production reaches 2008 or 09, the only thing we can go by is what they are doing with the Vette. The Camaro may equal the HP, but never top the vette for reasons stated before. I agree with whoever said by 08-09 I wouldnt be suprised to see the LS7 of some sort make an appearance in the Camaro. There will be better technology out there in the newer vettes by then to allow this to happen. Eventually they are going to almost have go with FI or the DOD to acheive higher power while maintaining "acceptible" emmisions requirements in the newer performance cars if this HP race continues. I dont really think the race will ever end, but it will slow until more technology is discovered... Emissions are going to be a big Key in what happens to the new performance cars, or any car/SUV for that matter.

To me it seems like a no-brainer for the 2007 to have some type of FI on the LS2. I wouldnt complain! I'm sure they'd opt for supercharging as they havent turboed a car since what... The Gran-Nationals,syclones/typhoons!?? (they kicked ass by the way!) I would take either one, but would prefer a turboed car.. Only because it would be something new. Stock supercharged cars are really nothing new. A turboed car would be. They make more efficient HP, why the hell not go with a turbo option!?

Most likely a single turboed LS2 you could expect what, another 100hp at the flywheel? Who the hell could complain? If you are going to say keep it all NA.. I have news for you... Time is running out for these engines to keep producing all this extra HP in Naturally aspirated form. We are craving too much for what technology NA-wise can handle, while passing emission standards. There will be a point where it just makes more sense to get the extra punch from FI and i hope it comes soon! (the 03-04 Cobras are monsters!) Just think of a 600hp BOLT on package from an aftermarket company like SLP had the 500hp Bolt on package for the Cobras of 03-04! (not saying it will be SLP, as i dont care for them. It was an example) I am not saying turbos are better than superchargers, or that FI is better in any way than being NA... I was throwing out what i am thinking at this point.

The bottom line is... The new Camaro has to be just awesome cosmetically, and what it offers for performance, or the car is going to flop like the GTOs... (mainly the 2004s)
I'm not saying the GTOs are junk, but i dont think they did what GM wanted to do for them as far as a business point of view....

Yes expect the very early ones to have markups just like the 04 GTOs had, and the new Z06 has... Its not really controllable, and cannot blame it on GM entirely, but its of the GREED the exects at the dealerships. GM may need to re-stratigize their allocation strategy to lessen this... Get more out at once, and allow ALL dealerships early allocation instead of only the BIG volume dealerships, as this will backfire to the consumers like the 2006 Z06 has. There are alot of people waiting now, because of the rediculous markups of the new C6 Zs. I am discusted, and i know others are...

Dont think about this stuff too much, as i dont think anything is going to come of this anytime soon. GM has beat around the damn bush too long. Its almost too late to re-gain any "middle market" performance car Cobra's are looking nicer every day, but so are the vettes.

I dont think i have anything else to say! (thank god!) Ok guys, Rip me wide!

Holy Shit.. Didnt think I typed that much!^^^

GM is NOT going to use a FI LS2 in the Camaro, not for 07 and most likely not for 08. A supercharged LS2 would put out 500+ hp, overshooting the Z06, not to mention the regular Vette. So, for the reasons stated above, that wouldn't happen.

And about the Z06, not everyone is marking them up. I know of two people who bought them at MSRP. Just have to know where to look.

FI LS2...yeah right
so people are expecting to see a 600 hp monster with a 12 bolt leather interior dvd navigation for...under 20k? right....

the main attraction towards fbodys has always been big power for a small price. the ls2 will most likely be in a top model that will hopefully run 35k fully loaded with a realistic mark up. if you want forced induction you will most likley have to look to aftermarket means and 6-10k for the kit.

well just my .02
you all are welcome to bash me if i am terribly wrong

This is straight from the pages of HOT ROD (January '06)

6.2L GEN IV SMALL BLOCK CHEVY GETS VARIABLE VALVE TIMING

"The latest version of GM's Gen IV engine family features what's believed to be a worlds-first for a cam in block V8 engine: variable valve timing. GM introduced variable valve timing in it's pushrod 3.5L and 3.9L V6's in 2005, but the 6.2L slated for the Cadillac Escalade SUV will be the first used in a non overhead cam V8. Using a vane type cam phaser similar to that found in the DOHC Northstar V8, the VVT allows cam timing to be varied from 10 degrees advanced to 52 degrees retarded, for a total of 62 degrees of timing control. It's just one of the ways the new 6.2L is able to generate 400hp at 5,700 rpm, and more impressively, to maintain at least 90 percent of it's 415 lb-ft of torque from 2,300-5,600 rpm. Also new for the 6.2L, which is essentially a bored 6.0L(4.065 inch bore), are high flow LS7 derived cylinder heads that feature the same offset intake valve location and raised intake and exhaust ports as the CNC ported LS7 heads but with the standard 12 degree valve angles shared by the rest of the Gen IV engine family. This could make them the hot factory head swap option in years to come."


I think it's safe to say that, if they are even still producing the LS2 as we know it, the LS2 will not be the top engine offering for the new Camaro. It's also safe to say that, as sweet as FI would be(especially turbo), the only thing we might see FI on is the "blue devil" corvette that has been speculated about, and that looks to be SC.

Forged internals would be fantastic, hell beyond fantastic. But that is very unlikely. What is more likely is that we'll see a stronger live axle rearend shared with GM's larger trucks. True dual exhaust would not be unbelievble either since this will be a whole new platform, but we'll have to wait and see.

Wrap your noodles around my idea.

Base model V6 (who cares what size it is)
Z28-the latest variation of the LS2 6+ litres (whatever year the car debuts)
Maybe they'll give us the 6.2L without VVT. ~425hp

The LS1 was 5.7L-350 hp
The LS2 is 6.0L-400 hp
I could see an LS2 at 6.2L-425~hp

Now think about the LS7, the Z06 upgrade to the C6 is expensive as all hell. GM's most expensive option ever. But the engine isnt all you pay for. Think about suspension, titanium, carbon fiber, etc etc. You cant deny that a small piece of that price goes to the "prestige" of the baddest vette ever.

The LS7 is hand built(expensively). The LS1 was not. Is it not badass? Nor was the LS2, larger displacement, more power. Badass? That would be a yes. The C6 and the '05 GTO have the same motor and even the same advertised HP! By the time this new camaro hits the streets, I think it's very likely we will see a slightly detuned LS7 being robotically assembled (cheaper) to power the C6/7 and also the new Camaro SS both sharing the same power rating, maybe ~475hp. Probably the GTO too, but if GM is dumb enough to keep producing that car without entirely redesigning it's exterior. That wound will never close. If we have the C6 at 32XX lbs, bring in the Camaro at 34XX. Vette owns the track and equal if not slightly beat the Camaro drag times. (lighter more aerodynamic) I think the General could live with that. All drag tests of STOCK cars are on stock rubber. So the camaro's live axle advantage would be negated by street tires.

Base V6-240 hp?
Z28-425 hp 6.2L?
SS-475 hp 7.0L?

Also, another little tidwinkle of info. I'm sure some of you already know this. GM is already going to produce a 6 speed automatic for the STS-V capable of handling it's 440 hp supercharged V8. And by the time the new Camaro hits the production line, I think the A6 will definitely be an option. But now that I remember the blown STS-V motor. Maybe FI isn't completely out of the question.:secret2:

Say what you want about my post. We're all just speculating right now anyway. Maybe it will be everything we've hoped for. Or maybe they will axe the whole project.

This is straight from the pages of HOT ROD (January '06)

6.2L GEN IV SMALL BLOCK CHEVY GETS VARIABLE VALVE TIMING

"The latest version of GM's Gen IV engine family features what's believed to be a worlds-first for a cam in block V8 engine: variable valve timing. GM introduced variable valve timing in it's pushrod 3.5L and 3.9L V6's in 2005, but the 6.2L slated for the Cadillac Escalade SUV will be the first used in a non overhead cam V8. Using a vane type cam phaser similar to that found in the DOHC Northstar V8, the VVT allows cam timing to be varied from 10 degrees advanced to 52 degrees retarded, for a total of 62 degrees of timing control. It's just one of the ways the new 6.2L is able to generate 400hp at 5,700 rpm, and more impressively, to maintain at least 90 percent of it's 415 lb-ft of torque from 2,300-5,600 rpm. Also new for the 6.2L, which is essentially a bored 6.0L(4.065 inch bore), are high flow LS7 derived cylinder heads that feature the same offset intake valve location and raised intake and exhaust ports as the CNC ported LS7 heads but with the standard 12 degree valve angles shared by the rest of the Gen IV engine family. This could make them the hot factory head swap option in years to come."


I think it's safe to say that, if they are even still producing the LS2 as we know it, the LS2 will not be the top engine offering for the new Camaro. It's also safe to say that, as sweet as FI would be(especially turbo), the only thing we might see FI on is the "blue devil" corvette that has been speculated about, and that looks to be SC.

Forged internals would be fantastic, hell beyond fantastic. But that is very unlikely. What is more likely is that we'll see a stronger live axle rearend shared with GM's larger trucks. True dual exhaust would not be unbelievble either since this will be a whole new platform, but we'll have to wait and see.

Wrap your noodles around my idea.

Base model V6 (who cares what size it is)
Z28-the latest variation of the LS2 6+ litres (whatever year the car debuts)
Maybe they'll give us the 6.2L without VVT. ~425hp

The LS1 was 5.7L-350 hp
The LS2 is 6.0L-400 hp
I could see an LS2 at 6.2L-425~hp

Now think about the LS7, the Z06 upgrade to the C6 is expensive as all hell. GM's most expensive option ever. But the engine isnt all you pay for. Think about suspension, titanium, carbon fiber, etc etc. You cant deny that a small piece of that price goes to the "prestige" of the baddest vette ever.

The LS7 is hand built(expensively). The LS1 was not. Is it not badass? Nor was the LS2, larger displacement, more power. Badass? That would be a yes. The C6 and the '05 GTO have the same motor and even the same advertised HP! By the time this new camaro hits the streets, I think it's very likely we will see a slightly detuned LS7 being robotically assembled (cheaper) to power the C6/7 and also the new Camaro SS both sharing the same power rating, maybe ~475hp. Probably the GTO too, but if GM is dumb enough to keep producing that car without entirely redesigning it's exterior. That wound will never close. If we have the C6 at 32XX lbs, bring in the Camaro at 34XX. Vette owns the track and equal if not slightly beat the Camaro drag times. (lighter more aerodynamic) I think the General could live with that. All drag tests of STOCK cars are on stock rubber. So the camaro's live axle advantage would be negated by street tires.

Base V6-240 hp?
Z28-425 hp 6.2L?
SS-475 hp 7.0L?

Also, another little tidwinkle of info. I'm sure some of you already know this. GM is already going to produce a 6 speed automatic for the STS-V capable of handling it's 440 hp supercharged V8. And by the time the new Camaro hits the production line, I think the A6 will definitely be an option. But now that I remember the blown STS-V motor. Maybe FI isn't completely out of the question.:secret2:

I basically agree with what you've said here.

A couple minor points though:

What about the LS7's dry sump oil system? Expensive and difficult to package.

Also I don't see having a 425hp LS2 or "new" 6.2 liter variable valve timing engine and then having an LS7 option that only produces 50 more hp. A base 405hp engine with an increase in power to 450-500 over the next 2 or 3 year model span is more likely(as evidenced by recent GM model history). That could easily be accomplished without the need for the LS7 engine.

Lastly the idea of variable valve timing in a cam in block being introduced any place but the Corvette seems -highly- unlikely to me. Perhaps a 405 base hp engine and an option variable timing, but that is still reaching.

400+ base HP for the Z28 seems a no-brainer.
5-6 speed auto seems a near certainty.
Optional or 2nd/3rd year power increase(however accomplished) also seems inevitable. Buyers have shown a willingness to pay 5K+ more for basically an appearance package(SS) so I see no need for GM to put an LS7 in to command a premium. A dual exhuast or slight bump in displacement, etc, would net them a nice sales bump without using the LS7.

Edit: Also I do see a need for GM to have a Cobra level performance Camaro to help elevate the Corvette above the Mustang in the publics eye.

Awsome write up my friend, wow a 6speed auto thats kinda crazy.

Awsome write up my friend, wow a 6speed auto thats kinda crazy.

That's old news in the car world. Maybe new to GM since they're always dragging ass.

I'm excited about the upgraded drivetrain and 6.2LS2 with VVT and LS7 design heads.

I posted the excerpt from HOT ROD about the VVT motor because people were questioning how GM will keep upping the HP and still pass emissions etc. We will have to see how many models will share that technology. One thing I hope GM uses on the Camaro is the Z06 exhaust butterflies.

That's a valid point about the LS7 dry sump system. Maybe we'll see the V6 and Z28 model for the first year or two of production. I could see them giving the Z 405/410 hp rating even if it makes ~425 or not. Then (we can only hope) a detuned machine assembled version of the LS7 (dry sump? or not?) pushing anywhere from 460-475 for the grand entrance of the Camaro SS into production (shared with the base vette of course, and if the GTO is still around probably a "GTO Judge" version). Or maybe not, if they have a 6.2L ~425hp motor that they are underrating they could leave the LS7 exlusively hand built and exclusively Z06. Instead use some more advanced heads (LS7 derived) and a more aggressive cam (nothing crazy obviously) with VVT to pass emissions and be making the 460-475 I mentioned before without underrating the motor. Then they have a base 405/410 rated (425) motor and the upgrade (same displacement) 475 motor (accurately rated). I think they could easily get 50-60 more FWHP with the heads/agg. cam using VVT. The more HP the public "thinks" they are getting with the upgrade, the more likely they will buy it. Doesnt matter if it only actually has 40 more horse, if GM advertises 70 more horse. That means more sales, something DESPERATELY needs. By then they may have some new tricks for the Z06 to be running 550hp+. VVT? FI?

I definitely agree that if the Camaro gets VVT the vette will get it also/already have it. I also agree with you about GM wanting to keep the vette above the GT 500 in the public eye by having a mid level car on it's playing field. It's almost unbelievable that GM has kept the Camaro concept out of the public's eye entirely. No spy shots? I bet that the concept, if it is fully operational, has NOT been driven/tested anywhere.

My car is only lid/catback so far. The unveiling in January will determine if I will still want to heavily modify this car or wait to buy a new Camaro. Lest we not forget when Chrysler unveiled the Charger concept. I thought that car was awesome. The charger that made production years later looked NOTHING like it. I do think the SRT-8 charger looks tough. I wouldn't consider buying one though, I would have considered buying one modeled after the concept though.
http://www.acarshow.com/ychcptgd.jpg
http://www.acarshow.com/ychcptfr.jpg
http://www.acarshow.com/ychcptdr.jpg
We all know what the Charger badged "dodge magnum sedan" looks like now though.

Dealers who markup cars due to demand are scandalous. Luckily my dad works (and will remain working) for GM. So I can get the new Camaro with the employee discount. Just one more reason I'm hoping the General doesn't screw this up.;) :D

Spy photos, heh, you missed the action today in this forum, have a look!