Street Racing & Kill Stories - foxbody vs. ls1

this is my question. this is up to anyone wether mustang lover or fbody lover. stock to stock how bad will a ls1 camaro beat a stock foxbody 5.0 mustnag. the reason i ask is i just got one and i have a guy that is being a real a**hole and saying that stock to stock he will beat me. now i know when i had my lt1 i beat him by 2-3 cars....so how bad will the ls1 beat him

you have ls1 and he has a fox body? Can I say bus lenghts??? Make him put some money on the race and he'll shut up!

Let me see if I can find the post on Ls1.com where people were telling me foxes ran 12.9 out of the box. Quite a funny posting thread

If I still had a site id show you a video of me chasing two foxes "modded" down the street, slowing down, catching up, slowing down, catching up.... just toying with their emotions. They were 92' notches also.. the "fast" ones.

Spot him a few cars for some cash and then take his money. Foxes aren't known for their deadly stock potential but rather their love for mods. He's living in a dream world and you should bring him back to earth....after you take his money.

Stock!? He'll need binoculars to read your license plate.

Yeah, you could take him by a longshot. Heck I walked all over my buddys fox body in my stock LT1 with K&N and 4.11s. His 1992 Mustang has a 302 with CAI, Bigger TB, Injectors, GT-40 Intake, GT-40 Heads, Streetable Cam (One of the Ford Racing ones, I can't remember which one, nothing too big), and a Ford Racing bottom end (stock, haha). He is also running a T-5 with I think a King Cobra Clutch with a B&M Short Throw Shifter. He too has 4.11s. Exhaust is Shorty headers with an X-pipe and dual Flowmaster 50 series. Hes got like $5000 in this car (what a waste!) They were talking so much crap and then one night they told me to take my car out so they could beat up on it, and boy were they surprised. They even switched drivers and still couldnt hang. BTW, this car probably doesnt run quite as good as it should, I think it needs a good tune, but thats just me. But when people talk smack and get beat, they shouldnt have excuses.

Bottomline: YOU WILL KILL THE MUSTANG!!!!!

this is my question. this is up to anyone wether mustang lover or fbody lover. stock to stock how bad will a ls1 camaro beat a stock foxbody 5.0 mustnag. the reason i ask is i just got one and i have a guy that is being a real a**hole and saying that stock to stock he will beat me. now i know when i had my lt1 i beat him by 2-3 cars....so how bad will the ls1 beat him
not that it would affect the outcome, but what year 5.0?

As the Fox platform was in use upto 2004 calling it a Fox 5.0 doesn't narrow it down much. I mean some had as much as 134bhp STOCK.

However a latter one with a few mods and well dirven can be pretty quick. low 13's or even 12.9's are possible with bolt ons, so stop light to stop light could be close.

If it really is stock then it shouldn't even be a race, just a for gone conclusion.

Yeah, you could take him by a longshot. Heck I walked all over my buddys fox body in my stock LT1 with K&N and 4.11s. His 1992 Mustang has a 302 with CAI, Bigger TB, Injectors, GT-40 Intake, GT-40 Heads, Streetable Cam (One of the Ford Racing ones, I can't remember which one, nothing too big), and a Ford Racing bottom end (stock, haha). He is also running a T-5 with I think a King Cobra Clutch with a B&M Short Throw Shifter. He too has 4.11s. Exhaust is Shorty headers with an X-pipe and dual Flowmaster 50 series. Hes got like $5000 in this car (what a waste!) They were talking so much crap and then one night they told me to take my car out so they could beat up on it, and boy were they surprised. They even switched drivers and still couldnt hang. BTW, this car probably doesnt run quite as good as it should, I think it needs a good tune, but thats just me. But when people talk smack and get beat, they shouldnt have excuses.

Bottomline: YOU WILL KILL THE MUSTANG!!!!!
Must have been a shitty car or shitty driver. My old 89 with nothing more than 3.55 gears and slicks went 8.52 in the 1/8 mile, with 175,000 miles on it. with a intake and gears it went low 8.teens. I think the best time with only gears and slicks in the qtr was a 13.26. I thought that was decent for a high mileage car. I know my buddy had some GT40 heads and all like you were mentioning on your buddy's car.....his car went some 7.0s in the 1/8 mile.

Stock for Stock 0-50 will have you 2-3 cars ahead and after that you will kick the crap out of him. This is based on my 95 LT1 vs. my friends gears/CAI/Pully/Exhaust 5.0 5M and my 95 LT1 vs. a 99+ LS1 A4 w/ exhaust/tune. 0-50 you wont MURDER him, but the winner will be clear, as for 50+ HE would be an idiot for wasting the gas. BTW, not that anyone cares, and this is off topic, but im getting 20 mpg at 65-70 mph on the freeway with mods in sig. is that normal for a fox with my mods? (dont mean to hi-jack thread, just thought a few fox ppl. might actually look at this one...)

Stock for Stock 0-50 will have you 2-3 cars ahead and after that you will kick the crap out of him. This is based on my 95 LT1 vs. my friends gears/CAI/Pully/Exhaust 5.0 5M and my 95 LT1 vs. a 99+ LS1 A4 w/ exhaust/tune. 0-50 you wont MURDER him, but the winner will be clear, as for 50+ HE would be an idiot for wasting the gas. BTW, not that anyone cares, and this is off topic, but im getting 20 mpg at 65-70 mph on the freeway with mods in sig. is that normal for a fox with my mods? (dont mean to hi-jack thread, just thought a few fox ppl. might actually look at this one...)
21 mpg with my old GT and similar mods.

You won't beat him bone stock thats for sure. I own a 93 z/ a4 ,and a 90 ford coupe. Best run with the coupe was 13.80 with the 373's and h pipe. The z with just a 58mm ran 13.53 . Had to add long tube headers pro m mass air sensor 65mm t/b and ran a 13.30 inthe coupe.Drag radials will help you out alot. :drive:

well here are the results......

yea it was bus lengths. i called him after u posted the thread and told him i would put 100 down if he was game. he didnt want to do money but he did race. now i have a 99 z28 and he has a 92 5.0 foxbody. mine is stock. he has exhaust, headers, intake, and other randon shyt. so anyways we got lined up and i told him to go when he felt like it and i would go. it was over at that point. i pulled away so hard he didnt know what happened. he was trying to say he didnt hook up and other shyt but i gave him a 1/2 a car head start. so thanks everyone for your help!

1 more quick question what cars do we need to watch out for in the ls1's ?

1 more quick question what cars do we need to watch out for in the ls1's ?
nice one.

well the simple answer has to be 'anything faster'.

There really is no clear divide, plus as the trend is to mod a car there's plenty out there that can and will be quicker.

well here are the results......

yea it was bus lengths. i called him after u posted the thread and told him i would put 100 down if he was game. he didnt want to do money but he did race. now i have a 99 z28 and he has a 92 5.0 foxbody. mine is stock. he has exhaust, headers, intake, and other randon shyt. so anyways we got lined up and i told him to go when he felt like it and i would go. it was over at that point. i pulled away so hard he didnt know what happened. he was trying to say he didnt hook up and other shyt but i gave him a 1/2 a car head start. so thanks everyone for your help!

1 more quick question what cars do we need to watch out for in the ls1's ?
I cant understand why his car wont go any better. With headers, int, and exhaust, he should be a decent runner, esp if he has gears. I guess hes just not a driver at all. I have raced several....and they never pull on me like that. I have a AOD junky ass daily driver Gt that runs decent enough to keep up.

stock gears. and his is an auto. it wasnt even a race

Stock gears and an auto??? Shit! He should have known better. Although with 3.27 gears, and just CAI, my AOD went 9.08. But I figure a stock LS1 can beat that with a good driver.

yea i can drive pretty well. it wasnt even a race, although i cant take anything away from foxbodies they can be real fast

nice one.

well the simple answer has to be 'anything faster'.

There really is no clear divide, plus as the trend is to mod a car there's plenty out there that can and will be quicker.

Exactly.

With todays technology ,its hard to say what will be fast and what wont..
Best bet is build it and hope its built enough..

You would have a better run with alot of ricers out there,stock foxbody most likely has some hard miles on it. It takes a decent H/C/I 5.0 to run with a stock ls1.

Must have been a shitty car or shitty driver. My old 89 with nothing more than 3.55 gears and slicks went 8.52 in the 1/8 mile, with 175,000 miles on it. with a intake and gears it went low 8.teens. I think the best time with only gears and slicks in the qtr was a 13.26. I thought that was decent for a high mileage car. I know my buddy had some GT40 heads and all like you were mentioning on your buddy's car.....his car went some 7.0s in the 1/8 mile.

They switched drivers and still the same outcome. I know his car dont run as good as it should. I think it still needs a good tune.

You would have a better run with alot of ricers out there,stock foxbody most likely has some hard miles on it. It takes a decent H/C/I 5.0 to run with a stock ls1.
Sorry to disagree you don't have to have heads and cam to beat an ls1 with a fox body. You do have to have a good amount of bolt on's thow. I have 75mm mass air sensor lts and a65mm t/ bodie 373 gear w/ h- pipe and can go head to head w/ a stock ls1, stock I say, don,t get me wrong ls1 guys, I own a camaro also.With this combo with good traction my fox went 13.30 at 101 mph with a 1.73 60ft.

Sorry to disagree you don't have to have heads and cam to beat an ls1 with a fox body. You do have to have a good amount of bolt on's thow. I have 75mm mass air sensor lts and a65mm t/ bodie 373 gear w/ h- pipe and can go head to head w/ a stock ls1, stock I say, don,t get me wrong ls1 guys, I own a camaro also.With this combo with good traction my fox went 13.30 at 101 mph with a 1.73 60ft.

yea, i'd say u can hang with me.. :drive:

Sorry to disagree you don't have to have heads and cam to beat an ls1 with a fox body. You do have to have a good amount of bolt on's thow. I have 75mm mass air sensor lts and a65mm t/ bodie 373 gear w/ h- pipe and can go head to head w/ a stock ls1, stock I say, don,t get me wrong ls1 guys, I own a camaro also.With this combo with good traction my fox went 13.30 at 101 mph with a 1.73 60ft.You won't hit a 1.7 on the street,so yeah you would be looking at tail lights. And I own my second 5.0,and two other mustang currently.

1 more quick question what cars do we need to watch out for in the ls1's ?

Mustangs, still by far the LS1s biggest enemy. Which is the way it should be.

built mustangs yes although the newer mustangs i think they have a 4.6 i can take those by buses.. they are real slow unless they are built

built mustangs yes although the newer mustangs i think they have a 4.6 i can take those by buses.. they are real slow unless they are built

Be more specific man, 4.6 GT(non 05). You won't beat a Mach 1 or 03/04 Cobra by buses stock.

ok im sorry..... yes the 04 and under stock v8 4.6 are slow... and yes i know i wouldnt even come close to either a mach 1 or cobra or for that matter

You won't hit a 1.7 on the street,so yeah you would be looking at tail lights. And I own my second 5.0,and two other mustang currently.Yes I admit I have seen tail lights and some camaros have gotten a good look of my tail lights. Raced my nieghbors 02 ls1 beat him from a dig he killed me from a roll. Have to admit also those ls1s are fast even stock.

Stoplight to stoplight a good running stock 5.0L is a good match for a stock LS1 car. A well driven 5.0L can 1/8 close to a stock LS1, its the second 1/8 where things get harry for the 5.0L.

I remember by best 1/8 stock in my LS1 was 8.69 and my best in the 5.0L was 8.87. Good run in my book, considering the 5.0L ran 5.89 in the 330' vs the LS1s 5.91.

The LS1 does 0-60 in what 5.1-2? and a fox body runs what 0-60...6.0+?. It should be a slaughter stoplight to stoplight.

QUOTE: Stoplight to stoplight a good running stock 5.0L is a good match for a stock LS1 car.


I definately don't agree with this statement at all. The physics don't agree with it at all either. When I was stock, I used to be able to toy with mildly modded 5.0's. Let them pull ahead, slowly roll on the throttle until I was ahead. Then I'd back off and let them catch up, then hit it again and pull ahead, and back and forth. It was pathetic. You can build a fast 5.0, but stock for stock they aren't even in the same league.

My 5.0 was really fast for its time but my LS1 makes it look slow. The lighter weight of some of the mustangs w/ manuals and mild bolt-ons vs. the relatively heavy F-bods with autos gives the impression of a more responsive, faster car, at low speeds. Especially compared with the LT1s and 3rd gen rides most people are holding them up too. But they just aren't equal to the broad power of the LS1 or LT1s that have been worked.

My little brother 5.0 LX notch back, bored .030, LTubes, open exhaust, F-cam, Edelbrock intake, 4.10, 5 spd, GT40 (iron) heads, with 9.5:1 CR (street tires) pulled really well against me through 2nd gear (I didn't power shift or launch aggressively) and we were even. I went to 3rd and put 3 cars on him before we let out. 5.0's need a good intake system, modern heads (alum. AFR, Trick Flow), proper CR, cam, tuning, and exhaust. Most 5.0 guys that aren't informed think that a GT40 head/intake is still the greatest technology they can buy. Just saw a '93 Cobra with a 347 and Holley Systemax Head/intake. Probably still not as fast as a stock M6 Z28 but it was faster than all of the other cars the guys says he has owned.

Yep, a 6spd LS1 fbody(non 'vert) can run low 13's on street tires with a decent driver. It's gonna be hard to get a 302 stock geared, street tire, emissions legal fox running low 13's......even with a off the shelf H/C/I package. Regardless, I still love the foxes!!!

built mustangs yes although the newer mustangs i think they have a 4.6 i can take those by buses.. they are real slow unless they are built

my boy with a 00 vette with jus headers, vararam, and a good tune beat a 99'-04' gt mustang with some mods and a 100shot by like 2 or 3 cars.....

My friends Fox stays in front for my entire first gear.(AUTOMATIC). Second gear he runs out of steam and i pass him at about 75mph. He has a rebuild motor a race cluth and some mexican dude messed around with his timing. It pulls hard*_*
(im also Mexican sow no racist stuff pleace)

My friends Fox stays in front for my entire first gear.(AUTOMATIC). Second gear he runs out of steam and i pass him at about 75mph. He has a rebuild motor a race cluth and some mexican dude messed around with his timing. It pulls hard*_*
(im also Mexican sow no racist stuff pleace)

u have 2.73's? cause 0-60 is first gear alone

I definately don't agree with this statement at all. The physics don't agree with it at all either. When I was stock, I used to be able to toy with mildly modded 5.0's. Let them pull ahead, slowly roll on the throttle until I was ahead. Then I'd back off and let them catch up, then hit it again and pull ahead, and back and forth. It was pathetic. You can build a fast 5.0, but stock for stock they aren't even in the same league.


Like I said good running, your not racing the right 5.0Ls, I gave you examples of my 1/8 mile in both my cars and its not like my LS1 is a dog, 12s on RSAs with only a lid and a catback is alot better than most LS1 guys see. On the back half the LS1 pulls away dramatically but its a good run to the first 1/8. I never said they were in the same league, I just said they are a good run stoplight to stoplight. Id appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth thank you.

As a matter of accuracy I wouldnt call this legit but as a matter of repeatability and comparability my LS1 and 5.0L were within a tenth of each other on my G-Tech.

Yep, a 6spd LS1 fbody(non 'vert) can run low 13's on street tires with a decent driver. It's gonna be hard to get a 302 stock geared, street tire, emissions legal fox running low 13's......even with a off the shelf H/C/I package. Regardless, I still love the foxes!!!

Not really, the recipe for 12s in a Fox back in the say was a gear, short-belt and timing with a slick. Granted its a slick but you could probably pull off a low mid 13 with a drag radial.

Granted I highly doubt very many guys pulled this off, but figure if you worked at it long enough and watched the barometer you could possibly. The point isnt really that, its just that a light rwd V8 car like the Fox has huge potential even in fairly anemic stock form. The fact that most are owned by morons nowadays and dont run for shit makes everyone forget what they once were. Every once in awile you run into some guy that runs times with mods you dont want to believe.

I can't honestly believe a stock fox Mustang is going to hang anywhere close to a stock LS1. Modded fox is another story , but stock for stock , no way.

lets just say this, ive beaten stock 5.0s in my v6

QUOTE:Like I said good running, your not racing the right 5.0Ls, I gave you examples of my 1/8 mile in both my cars and its not like my LS1 is a dog, 12s on RSAs with only a lid and a catback is alot better than most LS1 guys see. On the back half the LS1 pulls away dramatically but its a good run to the first 1/8. I never said they were in the same league, I just said they are a good run stoplight to stoplight. Id appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth thank you.

I never said that you stated the 2 cars are in the same league, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm the one that said the cars aren't in the same league. They are nowhere close in terms of straightline performance. I don't know how short of a race you are talking about. If you mean just through 1st gear, then you could also say a stock honda civic would be a good race. Stock for stock a fox mustang and an LS1 are not even close. As I said before the LS1 is in a completely different league.

13.26 in my stock fox, with pullies and exhaust. Street tires. 178,000 miles. Weighed in at 3360 w/ driver. Not light.

I never said that you stated the 2 cars are in the same league, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm the one that said the cars aren't in the same league. They are nowhere close in terms of straightline performance. I don't know how short of a race you are talking about. If you mean just through 1st gear, then you could also say a stock honda civic would be a good race. Stock for stock a fox mustang and an LS1 are not even close. As I said before the LS1 is in a completely different league.


Why did you feel the need to say the two cars werent in the same league if you didnt feel that I inferred it.

No I didnt mean through 1st gear, I believe I said 1/8 mile, if your not familiar with the 1/8 mile the distance in gears in an LS1 F-body is just barely touching 3rd. I gave you examples of my cars, unlike you I happen to own both, its not some friends car that might of had some sneaky mods, but my car which I was fully aware of the modifications present. Like I said through the 1/8 they were a good run. Are you calling me a liar?

And I happen to own a Civic as well, its pretty decisive even in 1st gear between the Civic vs Camaro or Civic vs Mustang. And yes I have raced them for the hell of it.

I can't honestly believe a stock fox Mustang is going to hang anywhere close to a stock LS1. Modded fox is another story , but stock for stock , no way.

In what respect? I never said 1/4 mile wise, or even roll on, but from a stoplight possibly 1/8 mile distance its a good run. Like I said, Ive tested it many times, I have both cars, switched drivers a million times with different days and street consistancies. The LS1 gets out after the 330', but the killing didnt start until after the 1/8.

QUOTE: Why did you feel the need to say the two cars werent in the same league if you didn't feel that I inferred it.


Simple answer. Because I felt like it. It had nothing to do with your opinion.

I won't change your mind, and you won't change mine. I completely disagree with you. :drive:

I had a stock 5.0 with many bolt ons and nitrous and would get smoked by LS1's and even some fast LT1's. That is why I now own a LT1. It seemed like no matter what I would do that 5.0 never got any faster. I lost all hope when my friends built 331 93 GT weighing it at 2900lbs got beat by a stock 98 Z with nitrous and a few other bolt ones. And when I saw a few other I mean a very minimal amount.

Yes, a modded Fox can keep up with LS1's, but takes a lot less to get a LS1 to run what a heavily modded fox will. Simply put.

Are there any stock fox bodies left?

How do you explain my 190,000 mile car w/ 3.27 gears and just pullies and cold air running 9.08 with a aod? Thats better than some LS1 times.

Stock??? Also, what happened to the exhaust you had in a previous post? Ok you're right, you just proved it. Stock for stock LS1's are equal to stock fox's. :jest: I guess LS1's just don't make good use of their 100+ extra rwhp.

except for the cold air and pullies. I couldnt believe it either. My friends thought it was awesome for a AOD car , usually they are slow as christmas. Some say its had work somewhere, but I dont see it anywhere.

Stock??? Also, what happened to the exhaust you had in a previous post?
Still had stock headers and all in that post, just flowmaster mufflers, surely they didnt help that much. Afterwards I installed equal lengths and dumps, with 3.73s and only went 8.99, due to tire height and gear selection.

My 5.0 was really fast for its time but my LS1 makes it look slow. The lighter weight of some of the mustangs w/ manuals and mild bolt-ons vs. the relatively heavy F-bods with autos gives the impression of a more responsive, faster car, at low speeds. Especially compared with the LT1s and 3rd gen rides most people are holding them up too. But they just aren't equal to the broad power of the LS1 or LT1s that have been worked.

My little brother 5.0 LX notch back, bored .030, LTubes, open exhaust, F-cam, Edelbrock intake, 4.10, 5 spd, GT40 (iron) heads, with 9.5:1 CR (street tires) pulled really well against me through 2nd gear (I didn't power shift or launch aggressively) and we were even. I went to 3rd and put 3 cars on him before we let out. 5.0's need a good intake system, modern heads (alum. AFR, Trick Flow), proper CR, cam, tuning, and exhaust. Most 5.0 guys that aren't informed think that a GT40 head/intake is still the greatest technology they can buy. Just saw a '93 Cobra with a 347 and Holley Systemax Head/intake. Probably still not as fast as a stock M6 Z28 but it was faster than all of the other cars the guys says he has owned.Dude according to your sig you run 13.10. My coupe has alot less bolt ons than your brothers and runs 13.30 at 101 and 8.40 in the eigth. Your bros stang should be runnig at least 12.80s or better I still have my stock intake and e7heads . With the mods he has he should trapp at least 108 mph inthe quarter , so from a roll he should drag you pretty good. Guess he just needs drag radials.

13.26 in my stock fox, with pullies and exhaust. Street tires. 178,000 miles. Weighed in at 3360 w/ driver. Not light.And with an AOD?....That is the best time I have ever heard of. ~185rwhp(aod)--3360lbs--13.26......simply amazing!! To put that in perspective, a 300+rwhp fbody at about the same weight with better gearing runs similar times.

Maybe you're joshin' us though :confused:

Not really, the recipe for 12s in a Fox back in the say was a gear, short-belt and timing with a slick. Granted its a slick but you could probably pull off a low mid 13 with a drag radial. :confused: Not really? I said stock gear; slicks aren't street legal and neither is bypassing smog equipment. :)

My point was just that a 302 w/off shelf H/C/I will make around 275-310rwhp while staying emissions legal. Granted, they are usually 2-400lbs. lighter than an fbody, but they have less gear(2.73 5spd. & 3.27 auto. I believe). I would expect a 290rwhp h/c/i fox and 300rwhp stock fbody to run about the same times given the stipulations above.(slight advantage to fox)

QUOTE: And with an AOD?....That is the best time I have ever heard of. ~185rwhp(aod)--3360lbs--13.26......simply amazing!! To put that in perspective, a 300+rwhp fbody at about the same weight with better gearing runs similar times.

Maybe you're joshin' us though


If all you did was read the LS1tech streetracing forum, you'd think LS1's were turds. I mean.....where is that extra 115 rwhp going. :confused: Guess I should sell the T/A and buy a mustang.

And with an AOD?....That is the best time I have ever heard of. ~185rwhp(aod)--3360lbs--13.26......simply amazing!! To put that in perspective, a 300+rwhp fbody at about the same weight with better gearing runs similar times.

Maybe you're joshin' us though :confused:
no, the 13.26 was my old car with a 5 speed. The 8.99 was with the AOD car.I am guessing the AOD car to run low 14s to high 13s, which is still respectable for a crappy AOD car.I have not seen any AODs around here run times like that mostly stock(3.73s, CAI, exhaust, pullies) NO SHIFT KIT, just manual shifting.

no, the 13.26 was my old car with a 5 speed. The 8.99 was with the AOD car.I am guessing the AOD car to run low 14s to high 13s, which is still respectable for a crappy AOD car.I have not seen any AODs around here run times like that mostly stock(3.73s, CAI, exhaust, pullies) NO SHIFT KIT, just manual shifting.
**continuity break**

13.26 in my stock fox, with pullies and exhaust. Street tires. 178,000 miles. Weighed in at 3360 w/ driver. Not light.
aprt from the fact that pulley and exhaust is no longer STOCK!!

Why did a 5 speed Fox weigh 3360lb?


Also you state this:
How do you explain my 190,000 mile car w/ 3.27 gears and just pullies and cold air running 9.08 with a aod? Thats better than some LS1 times.
To which this is asked:
Stock??? Also, what happened to the exhaust you had in a previous post? Ok you're right, you just proved it. Stock for stock LS1's are equal to stock fox's. :jest: I guess LS1's just don't make good use of their 100+ extra rwhp.
So you answer:
except for the cold air and pullies. I couldnt believe it either. My friends thought it was awesome for a AOD car , usually they are slow as christmas. Some say its had work somewhere, but I dont see it anywhere.
then add this:
Still had stock headers and all in that post, just flowmaster mufflers, surely they didnt help that much. Afterwards I installed equal lengths and dumps, with 3.73s and only went 8.99, due to tire height and gear selection.
so if it had a flowmaster then the previous post listing the mods on your apparently STOCK car where, shall we say inaccurate?


I'm not calling BS on you. But you certainly arn't helping yourself here. As your sotry keeps changing all the while, then suddenly it was a different car you where referring too.

If you have a 2nd hand car that seems to be WAY faster than it should be then its probably had something done to it, whether you like it or not.

As no matter how much rubbish is passed around, there is no way that physics can be defeated.

In additon on the Mustang sites it seems pretty excepted that a 99-04 4.6 Stang is faster than a 5.0 Stang, stock for stock. Yet it is also excepted that the 4.6's are slower than the LS1 Fbody's, stock for stock.

**continuity break**


aprt from the fact that pulley and exhaust is no longer STOCK!!

Why did a 5 speed Fox weigh 3360lb?


Also you state this:

To which this is asked:

So you answer:

then add this:

so if it had a flowmaster then the previous post listing the mods on your apparently STOCK car where, shall we say inaccurate?


I'm not calling BS on you. But you certainly arn't helping yourself here. As your sotry keeps changing all the while, then suddenly it was a different car you where referring too.

If you have a 2nd hand car that seems to be WAY faster than it should be then its probably had something done to it, whether you like it or not.

As no matter how much rubbish is passed around, there is no way that physics can be defeated.

In additon on the Mustang sites it seems pretty excepted that a 99-04 4.6 Stang is faster than a 5.0 Stang, stock for stock. Yet it is also excepted that the 4.6's are slower than the LS1 Fbody's, stock for stock.I have to agree with this guy on this one . Cause they also said that the 99 and up 4.6 was faster than the lt1 camaro and fire birds with the exception of the 93 non mass air f bodys which they say are faster because they are speed density, oop's thats another arguement.The bottom line I guess is that if you took a bone stock ls1 with no flow master and a bone stock 5.0 fox body in the quarte mile 1320 ft and raced the mustang with no drag radials both cars on street tires I have to say the mustangs not in the same league period. AMEN ..........!

YOURE RIGHT, THE MORE CUBES OF THE ls1 WOULD PREVAIL. I dont know why my 89 weighed 3360, but it was weighed w/ driver and thats what it weighed, so oh well. I have had 2 cars, one was the 89 5 speed, the other is my 90 model AOD....the aod car only has CAI, exhaust and now headers. And pullies. W/ just CAI and exhaust it went 9.08 with stock gear, added 3.73 and equal lengths and it went 8.99 due to a short tire shifting to 3rd. The 5 speed car went 8.52 with CAI, 3.55s, stock headers, pullies, otherwise the engine was stock w/ 178,000 miles on it at that time. I am sure the AOD car would weigh more that 3360 w./ me, since the AOD is heavy as hell. No way these cars are in the same class. I have seen many 99-04s that my 89 or my 90 model could outrun easily. Most of the 99-04s around here arent impressive at all. maybe 8.9s to 9.3s?? Best I have seen was 8.4s with a few mods.

Stock for stock the LS1 would kill the stang. But it would happen at 50mph + Point in case was my old LT1 vs. my friends mild bolt-on 5.0 we were close to =, with me pulling a foot or two every 3 seconds or so. An LS1 WALKED AWAY FROM ME when we hit 50 (0-XXmph race) but was at my door 0-50, then it WALKED, so i must say, yes it would beat the 5.0, but only kill it after about 50 mph or so, then it would be busses.
STOCK FOR STOCK

Sounds about right for me....stock for stock.

And with an AOD?....That is the best time I have ever heard of. ~185rwhp(aod)--3360lbs--13.26......simply amazing!! To put that in perspective, a 300+rwhp fbody at about the same weight with better gearing runs similar times.

Maybe you're joshin' us though :confused:
I was wrong about the 13.26....it went like this
60ft-1.93
330-5.533
1/8mile-8.522
mph-81.97
1000ft-11.111
1/4mile-13.297
mph-102.98
Gears, CAI and exhaust.full weight car 178,000 miles. Street tires as referenced by the 1.93 60ft.

Stock for stock the LS1 would kill the stang. But it would happen at 50mph + Point in case was my old LT1 vs. my friends mild bolt-on 5.0 we were close to =, with me pulling a foot or two every 3 seconds or so. An LS1 WALKED AWAY FROM ME when we hit 50 (0-XXmph race) but was at my door 0-50, then it WALKED, so i must say, yes it would beat the 5.0, but only kill it after about 50 mph or so, then it would be busses.
STOCK FOR STOCK
I don't doubt your claim. But the numbers don't add up.

I've done some searching and the best 0-60mph time I can find for a 5.0 Mustang is 6.2 seconds. However this is only once, most are 6.4 seconds, and also 7.3 seconds for an early 90's example. And 8 seconds for a early 80's example (82).

Now an Fbody should be knocking out the 0-60 in around 5.3 seconds if you beleive the mags. And this would be an auto as well. I've seen quite a few claims of 4.9x seconds for M6 cars.

So even worst case scenario the Fbody is still 1.1 seconds quicker to 60. I can't beleive it makes up that time in just 10mph (50+ as you claim).

I think there are 3 reasons for this.

1. For the first 30 feet or so most cars will be pretty even regardless.

2. As the 5.0 have less power I would assume they are quite easy to launch without roasting the tyres too much, thus being quite consistant 0-60mph.

3. The Fbody's have WAY more power so its far easier to spin the wheels and loose time. In addition the 10 bolt rear is not all that strong so I think many people do not give it as much abuse as the engine can offer, knowing that the car will make it up once moving.

I still dont understand how the vast majority of them at our local tracks run very low 9s to high 8s. I can hang with them easily till the end of the 1/8 mile.

Lets put it this way as to the last 10mph it was enough for the LS1 to pull me by a good 1 car+ when he had been at my door (this was in my former LT1 A4 2.73 w/CAI and the race was against a lightly modded-exhaust,tune,cold air LS1 A4 from a light and we both got a good launch.) THe point is, the LS1 makes 365(TRUE) lb ft of tq while the 302 makes about 300. the 302 makes max tq at 3500 while the LS1 makes it at 4400, the LS1 weighs 3-400 lbs more. Now do the numbers make sense, forget what you read in the magazine, just take a look at THOSE numbers, it SHOULD make sense. I mean, afterall, i remember reading how an automatic mustang gt 04 ran 14.1 or something and i remember seeing how it ran 15.1 in another mag, clearly there are DEFINITE variations from truth and magazine if the magazines are a full second off. I even saw an LT1 F-body quoted at something like 14.9 IN PRINT.

:confused: Not really? I said stock gear; slicks aren't street legal and neither is bypassing smog equipment. :)

My point was just that a 302 w/off shelf H/C/I will make around 275-310rwhp while staying emissions legal. Granted, they are usually 2-400lbs. lighter than an fbody, but they have less gear(2.73 5spd. & 3.27 auto. I believe). I would expect a 290rwhp h/c/i fox and 300rwhp stock fbody to run about the same times given the stipulations above.(slight advantage to fox)

And my point was if your doing H/C/I why would leave a stock gear in the car. Its probably the first mod any Mustang guy does to his car. And Ive seen Fox cars with 270 rwhp run in the low 12s. Hell I did with 309 rwhp. 12.30@116.

I don't doubt your claim. But the numbers don't add up.

I've done some searching and the best 0-60mph time I can find for a 5.0 Mustang is 6.2 seconds. However this is only once, most are 6.4 seconds, and also 7.3 seconds for an early 90's example. And 8 seconds for a early 80's example (82).

Now an Fbody should be knocking out the 0-60 in around 5.3 seconds if you beleive the mags. And this would be an auto as well. I've seen quite a few claims of 4.9x seconds for M6 cars.

So even worst case scenario the Fbody is still 1.1 seconds quicker to 60. I can't beleive it makes up that time in just 10mph (50+ as you claim).

I think there are 3 reasons for this.

1. For the first 30 feet or so most cars will be pretty even regardless.

2. As the 5.0 have less power I would assume they are quite easy to launch without roasting the tyres too much, thus being quite consistant 0-60mph.

3. The Fbody's have WAY more power so its far easier to spin the wheels and loose time. In addition the 10 bolt rear is not all that strong so I think many people do not give it as much abuse as the engine can offer, knowing that the car will make it up once moving.

Where are you getting your 0-60 times, because if its magazine times then Ive seen 14 second LS1s. Like I said whether or not its accurate, it is repeatable and comparable my LS1 and 5.0L were within a tenth of each other on the G-Tech.

I was wrong about the 13.26....it went like this
60ft-1.93
330-5.533
1/8mile-8.522
mph-81.97
1000ft-11.111
1/4mile-13.297
mph-102.98
Gears, CAI and exhaust.full weight car 178,000 miles. Street tires as referenced by the 1.93 60ft.Ok, at first you didn't mention the gear and 5spd. It is still the best time I have ever heard of though!! A stock 178,000 mile 5.0 has about 180rwhp, add to this 10rwhp tops for the CAI/exhaust. Soooo, with ~190rwhp you ran 13.29 with a 1.93-60ft--incredible! 99-04 GT's with 230rwhp stock and 1/3 of the miles are running 13.9-14.1 at best. :eek2:

Ok, at first you didn't mention the gear and 5spd. It is still the best time I have ever heard of though!! A stock 178,000 mile 5.0 has about 180rwhp, add to this 10rwhp tops for the CAI/exhaust. Soooo, with ~190rwhp you ran 13.29 with a 1.93-60ft--incredible! 99-04 GT's with 230rwhp stock and 1/3 of the miles are running 13.9-14.1 at best. :eek2:The 4.6 is dohc doesnt make good torque down low and is also a heavier car.My fox has the same mods and an e-cam and ran 13.30 1.773 60ft but I figure it has 260 at the wheels 300lbs of torque. Sounds about right to me.

The 4.6l makes similar torque #'s only at a higher rpm, which is where you spend your time racing anyway. The pre 94 gt's do have a weight advantage though.

And my point was if your doing H/C/I why would leave a stock gear in the car. Its probably the first mod any Mustang guy does to his car. And Ive seen Fox cars with 270 rwhp run in the low 12s. Hell I did with 309 rwhp. 12.30@116.I'm not questioning a gear being a usual first mod. Sure, you can throw in a gear and slicks and become a hole shot car, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison to a stock fbody on regular radials. You could also throw a gear and tires on a fbody and run faster than a 03 Cobra. I bet a H/C/I fox, even with a gear on street tires wouldn't run too much faster(.2-.4) than a well driven LS1 fbody. That includes the fox staying emissions legal, full accessories stock weight, stock bottom end and off the shelf HCI--assuming 280-290rwhp for the fox.

The 4.6 is dohc doesnt make good torque down low and is also a heavier car. 230rwhp is for a SOHC GT which makes just as much low end torque as a 5.0. The weight difference is probably less than 200lbs.

It seems like a lot of magic surrounds the Fox bodies---buy a 170,000 mile 5.0; throw in a gear; weld on some mufflers and go huntin' LS1's :hail:

haha another bites the dust!!!!...ls1 rules the asphault!!

230rwhp is for a SOHC GT which makes just as much low end torque as a 5.0. The weight difference is probably less than 200lbs.

It seems like a lot of magic surrounds the Fox bodies---buy a 170,000 mile 5.0; throw in a gear; weld on some mufflers and go huntin' LS1's :hail:Well i guess if you over looked the e- cam and the other bolt ons i have [short attention span i guess]but it is kind of magical when a fox body car tears an ls1 a new hole at the track. :shocked:

Well i guess if you over looked the e- cam and the other bolt ons i have [short attention span i guess]but it is kind of magical when a fox body car tears an ls1 a new hole at the track. :shocked: :huh: It would help if you read the whole thread,[or atleast the page] so you would know who I was referring to. :D I was wrong about the 13.26....it went like this
60ft-1.93
330-5.533
1/8mile-8.522
mph-81.97
1000ft-11.111
1/4mile-13.297
mph-102.98
Gears, CAI and exhaust.full weight car 178,000 miles. Street tires as referenced by the 1.93 60ft.He has gear and exhaust(cai is useless)

Oh, and Kenny....260rwhp with an e-cam aint gonna happen. :)

Oh, and Kenny....260rwhp with an e-cam aint gonna happen. :)Ok fair enough mr dyno how much power am i putting out ?my car is 3330lbs and ran a 13.30 you tell me how your calculations came out .

With an e-cam and exhaust....probably <205rwhp.

With an e-cam and exhaust....probably <205rwhp.OOOOOOK :smokin2: Just say no to crack dude !

Yeah, no way will you make 260rwhp with stock heads/compression and an E-cam. Not gonna happen. The little old E-cam would have to be worth 40rwhp to make those numbers. :zzz: :jest: :violin:

Yeah, no way will you make 260rwhp with stock heads/compression and an E-cam. Not gonna happen. The little old E-cam would have to be worth 40rwhp to make those numbers. :zzz: :jest: :violin:I Guess I drive a deisel and I have 450 ft pounds of torque. Anyway I can't win on an ls1 site. :bang:

Why don't you dyno your car for the sake of this thread? Not trying to give you a hard time, but 260rwhp with just an E-cam would be amazing. :eek2:

Why don't you dyno your car for the sake of this thread? Not trying to give you a hard time, but 260rwhp with just an E-cam would be amazing. :eek2:True I agree. i have been on some calculators [example] stang source and thats what it comes out to. But its not exactly accurate .

Let the LS1 guys feel the way they do, there are so many ragged out 5.0Ls in this world the chances of any of these guys running into a good running well driven stock one are pretty nil. So if you take that into account there arguement is correct.

I'm not questioning a gear being a usual first mod. Sure, you can throw in a gear and slicks and become a hole shot car, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison to a stock fbody on regular radials. You could also throw a gear and tires on a fbody and run faster than a 03 Cobra. I bet a H/C/I fox, even with a gear on street tires wouldn't run too much faster(.2-.4) than a well driven LS1 fbody. That includes the fox staying emissions legal, full accessories stock weight, stock bottom end and off the shelf HCI--assuming 280-290rwhp for the fox.

I guess it depends on what you believe. In my world a 280 rwhp Fox is going to destroy any stockish LS1. You dont need any suspension mods on a Fox body to run easy 1.6 60'. Ive never seen a stock suspended LS1 get down in that range, Im aware that guys do it, but the level of commitment far exceeds that required for the Mustang. In any case why do you have all these variables, like gear and emission legality tires etc. etc. Im sure any 5.0L guy will go mod to mod with any LS1 guy anyday.

Ive been there, I run pretty decent in my LS1, 12.92@109 with the RSAs with Catback and Lid only is pretty good in my book. Ive got plenty of friends that run mild H/C/I 5.0Ls into the low 12s to know what happens when you try and race them. From a roll its a different story, because at 330 rwhp I still out-power them, but its hard to get over a 1.6 60' vs my 2.1 and act of god 2.09 in a straight drag race.

My whole point was not 1/4 mile time anyway. I just mentioned that a stock well driven good running LS1 and a likewise 5.0L are a good run stoplight to stoplight or 1/8 mile or less.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. If you are talking showroom stock though, I still don't think even stoplight to stoplight they are a good match. Your buddies might pull 1.6's, but a showroom stock 5.0 on stock tires is not going to be doing that. Stock for stock they aren't even close.

The "E" cam on an otherwise STOCK 5.0 is goign to be worth 10-15 rwhp. The E7 heads (stock), while some people have used them UNPORTED to run 10's, they were packing BOOST! are a BIG hold-back on an NA fox. GT40P's by themself are worth 25 rwhp, couple that with a good cam/proper valvetrain and you are looking at a 40 rwhp boost for a head/cam swap that runs about $800 for the whole shebang. YEs, an LS1 gets A LOT MORE out of it, no argument, but $800 for 40 rwhp aint bad, if you go with AFR's you can get 70+ out of it. But yeah, E-cam + stock 5.0 5M= 205-220 rwhp depending on where you started as stated before

PS. bone stock on street tires from what I have heard 1.8'-1.9's are do-able in a fox

The "E" cam on an otherwise STOCK 5.0 is goign to be worth 10-15 rwhp. The E7 heads (stock), while some people have used them UNPORTED to run 10's, they were packing BOOST! are a BIG hold-back on an NA fox. GT40P's by themself are worth 25 rwhp, couple that with a good cam/proper valvetrain and you are looking at a 40 rwhp boost for a head/cam swap that runs about $800 for the whole shebang. YEs, an LS1 gets A LOT MORE out of it, no argument, but $800 for 40 rwhp aint bad, if you go with AFR's you can get 70+ out of it. But yeah, E-cam + stock 5.0 5M= 205-220 rwhp depending on where you started as stated beforeStanger 88 what kind of power should a 5.0 make with e-cam ,longtube headers, h-pipe w/ no cats ,pro-m 75mm mass air sensor 65mm tb adj fuel reg ,and of course and cold air pipe make? Just asking.

I know you weren't asking me, but probably closer to 220rwhp. Most guys with the ported E7's/intake and a better cam than the E don't even make 260rwhp.

I guess it depends on what you believe. In my world a 280 rwhp Fox is going to destroy any stockish LS1. You dont need any suspension mods on a Fox body to run easy 1.6 60'. Is that with stock tires? Ive never seen a stock suspended LS1 get down in that range, Im aware that guys do it, but the level of commitment far exceeds that required for the Mustang. In any case why do you have all these variables, like gear and emission legality tires etc. etc. Im sure any 5.0L guy will go mod to mod with any LS1 guy anyday. The variables are to keep some type standard to base a comparison off of. I have no doubt that when you run longturbes, shortbelt, H/C/I, -200lbs weight, 4.10gear and stickies etc. that a 5.0 should kill a stockish fbody.

Ive been there, I run pretty decent in my LS1, 12.92@109 with the RSAs with Catback and Lid only is pretty good in my book. Ive got plenty of friends that run mild H/C/I 5.0Ls into the low 12s to know what happens when you try and race them. From a roll its a different story, because at 330 rwhp I still out-power them, but its hard to get over a 1.6 60' vs my 2.1 and act of god 2.09 in a straight drag race. I'm sure their cars are a little more setup for good 60's. Did you have a gear or sticky tires? Did they?

My whole point was not 1/4 mile time anyway. I just mentioned that a stock well driven good running LS1 and a likewise 5.0L are a good run stoplight to stoplight or 1/8 mile or less.Considering the 0-60 times...I think it should be a decent amount of space.

Again....heres the specs: CAI, 90 model AOD car, all stock except the CAI and pulley's, ran 9.08. I have seen lots of Vettes, and lots of F bodies that didnt run that good. So, i know they cant rape my car on a 0-60 run. I KNOW i dont have a car that runs that much incredibly better than any one elses, so why is it that I can keep up with a vast Majority of F-bods? Not much to driving my shitty auto, it wont hardly spin, so thats no worry. I think its kinda funny to go to the track and pick on f bodies and such, they always expect to see something under the hood, then they see all the stock crud from 1990. I know 9.0s isnt a rocket, but its a good argument for the 0-60 run.....mine must be comparable to some decent LS1s.

Good luck going around picking on LS1's with your "stock" auto 5.0. :drive:

done it many times at the track..........if the 90 model cant hang, I am sure my coupe will....

I guess a stock auto 5.0 run 4.9-5.3 0-60??? That's as fast/faster than a Mach 1...sweet!!!

I still dont understand how the vast majority of them at our local tracks run very low 9s to high 8s. I can hang with them easily till the end of the 1/8 mile.


My 5.0 hung with many LT and even some LS1's easy until after the 1/8 mile. As soon as we crossed that point it was like they hit the throttle and were gone. 5.0s are very torque happy monsters down low. But once you hit 3rd its like hitting a brick wall. F bodies just pull no matter what gear your in.

i'm sorry but i've have yet been beat by a 5.0. The closest was a trickflow heads and cam full exhaust 3.73 geared one at the track. He was even running drag radials and i have street tires. I only beat him by a car. My mods are 4.10 gears, centerforce clutch lid thats from a 98 z28. I've also roll raced a cammed and full exhaust geared 5.0 that wasn't even close at all. not saying a 5.0 can't hand me my ass, i'm just saying i dont believe a stock on would come close.

All this 1/8 mile stuff is really getting to me. I really wish I could find some of my old timeslips from my mustang. Here was my best run in my LT1

60` 2.221
330 6.012
1/8 9.031
1/4 13.814
MPH 102.95

Now this is all out of memory but is not completely accurate. This was the best run in my mustang.

60` 1.98
1/8 8.8
1/4 14.4
MPH 92.4

My mustang would have killed my LT1 to the 1/8 mile. But like I posted before, after that the LT1 would have passed me like I was standing still. 1/8 mile racing and 1/4 miles racing are far from the same. The 5.0 is a good car, I am not trying to put them down. But it takes a lot of work and a lot of money to make one run with a lightly modified F body.



And another thing, this talk about an E cam making 260 RWHP on a stock headed car is bullshit. Estimating HP and getting real numbers are two different things entirely. A friends 5.0 with the B cam, Cobra intake, GT40 heads, LT's no cats, dumps and all the other bolt ons that are a regular with foxbodies made 250~ HP. Shit my friends 331 stroker only made 396 on the engine dyno. And that is a professionally built motor.

All this 1/8 mile stuff is really getting to me. I really wish I could find some of my old timeslips from my mustang. Here was my best run in my LT1

60` 2.221
330 6.012
1/8 9.031
1/4 13.814
MPH 102.95

Now this is all out of memory but is not completely accurate. This was the best run in my mustang.

60` 1.98
1/8 8.8
1/4 14.4
MPH 92.4

My mustang would have killed my LT1 to the 1/8 mile. But like I posted before, after that the LT1 would have passed me like I was standing still. 1/8 mile racing and 1/4 miles racing are far from the same. The 5.0 is a good car, I am not trying to put them down. But it takes a lot of work and a lot of money to make one run with a lightly modified F body.



And another thing, this talk about an E cam making 260 RWHP on a stock headed car is bullshit. Estimating HP and getting real numbers are two different things entirely. A friends 5.0 with the B cam, Cobra intake, GT40 heads, LT's no cats, dumps and all the other bolt ons that are a regular with foxbodies made 250~ HP. Shit my friends 331 stroker only made 396 on the engine dyno. And that is a professionally built motor.Well since you brought it up again I said that I figured thats what it had so before you go talking sbullshit you should get your facts straight. And I also admitted that it was my estimation ok. With out the cam on bullshit tires my coupe went 13.83 w/1.89 60ft guess thats bullshit to hugh ? And as far as costing a bunch of money to get a fox to run with an f body you can't be serious cause mine already does. E-cam 150.00 pro-m 125.00 used h-pipe100.00 long tubes 300 gear373 125.00 WHOOPING AN LT1 OR LS1 PRICELESS !!!!! :drive: Beforeyou gm guys get to mad own a camaro also

Well since you brought it up again I said that I figured thats what it had so before you go talking sbullshit you should get your facts straight. And I also admitted that it was my estimation ok. With out the cam on bullshit tires my coupe went 13.83 w/1.89 60ft guess thats bullshit to hugh ? And as far as costing a bunch of money to get a fox to run with an f body you can't be serious cause mine already does. E-cam 150.00 pro-m 125.00 used h-pipe100.00 long tubes 300 gear373 125.00 WHOOPING AN LT1 OR LS1 PRICELESS !!!!! :drive: Beforeyou gm guys get to mad own a camaro also


I wouldn't say whooping an LS1 would be priceless....I might say unbelievable! :jest: Sorry to poke fun at your LS1 slayer:drive: Just the thought of a 215rwhp E-cammed auto 5.0 driving around picking on and whooping LS1's sounds funny, LOL!. :jest:

I like to pick on ls1s. I see a lot of those slugs at the local track and half can't even break into the 13s. A lot of fbody drivers are no driving fucksticks. I don't worry about them anymore. I like to race single turbo supras on the highway. :jest:

I wouldn't say whooping an LS1 would be priceless....I might say unbelievable! :jest: Sorry to poke fun at your LS1 slayer:drive: Just the thought of a 215rwhp E-cammed auto 5.0 driving around picking on and whooping LS1's sounds funny, LOL!. :jest:It's a five speed dude but you are right about one thing when it does happen I think it's pretty funny.... :flipeye:

Ok 5spd, still pretty funny though. Makes me think of the ricers that do their flyby's after I'm 4 cars ahead and already let off. I'm sure they go and tell their friends they just smoked an LS1. "ya, I got that fireturd on the top end." :jest:

my car ran 13.5 with no mods other than exhaust CAI and 3:73s. With 213000 miles and a 5 spd :drive:

QUOTE: my car ran 13.5 with no mods other than exhaust CAI and 3:73s. With 213000 miles and a 5 spd

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

All of those mods, Kenny, are not doing too much (the larger TB, the larger MAF, etc. are flowing WAY MORE than your E7 heads can make use of. you might be getting 10 rwhp between the two.) See, the stock MAF is dot so bad on these cars, neither is the TB (which is something like 60mm i think). THe long tubes and cold air (depending on whether its fender well or not) and the cat-less h-pipe are doing some good, but the main plug in the hose are those E7 heads which flow only about 155 cfm intake side. That is less than a stock LS1 exhaust port, unless i am mistaken. As to what your combo makes EXACTLY, i dont know, i would look for a combo like yours online that was dynoed.

I'll take my lightly modded 306. Havent been outrun by a f body yet myself, even when the motor was in my old GT street car. Seen alot of nice F bodies and such, but most dont do the F body justice, or the LS 1 either for that matter.

[QUOTE=Redneck Z]Ok 5spd, still pretty funny though. Makes me think of the ricers that do their flyby's after I'm 4 cars ahead and already let off. I'm sure they go and tell their friends they just smoked an LS1. "ya, I got that fireturd on the top end." :jest:[/QUOTE Haven't told me your 60 ft yet but i bet when your car was stock it ran maybe a 13.50 w/ 2.0 2.1 60ft, fuck the street its stupid to race there any way but if you were stock and we raced at the track you would be looking at some tail lights my friend.I know ,I know now you are going to come back and say that your unbeatable ls1 would have gotten me up top. Remember we are talking stock ls1, so don't come back and say that I do ricer flyby's because at the track there are no excuses ,and you know that even if a fox body beat you at the track or on the street you would never admit it. I think it's called denial ? I have respect for ls1 sbut they are not unbeatable. :bash:

go somewhere else to pride over your mustang

Well since you brought it up again I said that I figured thats what it had so before you go talking sbullshit you should get your facts straight. And I also admitted that it was my estimation ok. With out the cam on bullshit tires my coupe went 13.83 w/1.89 60ft guess thats bullshit to hugh ? And as far as costing a bunch of money to get a fox to run with an f body you can't be serious cause mine already does. E-cam 150.00 pro-m 125.00 used h-pipe100.00 long tubes 300 gear373 125.00 WHOOPING AN LT1 OR LS1 PRICELESS !!!!! :drive: Beforeyou gm guys get to mad own a camaro also


If you can seriously outrun LS1's and LT1's with those mods I will sell my car right now and go buy another mustang right now. You must have a freak of nature. I mean shit the only mods doing you any good besides that weak ass cam is your exhaust and gears. You may have a different MAF but with that 48mm TB it is not doing you any good and may even be hurting. That cam is way too small, and with the stock heads you are probably seening minimal if any gains at all. I used to be a mustang freak before I owned my LT1, and I can guarandamntee you that with those mods, you could not come close to a well driven STOCK LS1. Shit even a well driven LT1 would be a challenge. I am not doubting your times at all because where you are located and where I am the same car can run completely different times. But I'm sure that LS1's around there run better times too. But shit I guess GM was stupid for giving those cars another 48 CI (44 on the LS1) and almost 100 RWHP, cause shit, any guy with a few mods on his Foxbody could beat an fbody.

BTW what was your MPH on that 13.83 run???

BTW what was your MPH on that 13.83 run???
98 mph .Power of an ls1If yourcar is stock ,your not too far from Houston maybe we could set somthing up at houston race way park.

I used to be an LT1 freak before I became a mustang guy. Want to know what changed my mind? My friends 89(?) LX with gears, CAI,pullys, and exhaust held almost dead even with my 95 LT1 A4. I figured, hell, no way I can afford to mod this LT1, but mods for the 5.0 are CHEAP. So....ALso, Kenny, your mph was 92.XX in the 1/4 and your time was a 14.4 You have a decent ET with CRAPPY mph. What that is saying is that your hp is not 260 rwhp. Rather, it is a testamony to the awesome traction that the fox chassy can get and your launching skills/low end/gears/tires. 15mph to any speed and the LS1 would murder you. I love the fox 5.0 and drive one, but i give credit where credit is due, even with all my mods I am hoping to only be the rough equivalent of an LS1 from a roll. (I did kill an S2000 55-95 mph all in 4th gear though :) not by much, but at 55mph even with 4.10's 4th gear is slow.) Also, my car wont launch worth crap, I cant get the legendary fox traction :( Dunno why, tried slipping the clutch at 2K rpm and it just spun :( 245/60/15 tires btw, maybe i need radials, but it rains too much for that.

I used to be an LT1 freak before I became a mustang guy. Want to know what changed my mind? My friends 89(?) LX with gears, CAI,pullys, and exhaust held almost dead even with my 95 LT1 A4. I figured, hell, no way I can afford to mod this LT1, but mods for the 5.0 are CHEAP. So....ALso, Kenny, your mph was 92.XX in the 1/4 and your time was a 14.4 You have a decent ET with CRAPPY mph. What that is saying is that your hp is not 260 rwhp. Rather, it is a testamony to the awesome traction that the fox chassy can get and your launching skills/low end/gears/tires. 15mph to any speed and the LS1 would murder you. I love the fox 5.0 and drive one, but i give credit where credit is due, even with all my mods I am hoping to only be the rough equivalent of an LS1 from a roll. (I did kill an S2000 55-95 mph all in 4th gear though :) not by much, but at 55mph even with 4.10's 4th gear is slow.) Also, my car wont launch worth crap, I cant get the legendary fox traction :( Dunno why, tried slipping the clutch at 2K rpm and it just spun :( 245/60/15 tires btw, maybe i need radials, but it rains too much for that.
The stock trap speed was 98 mph with the bolt ons my trap mph is 101.78

If you can seriously outrun LS1's and LT1's with those mods I will sell my car right now and go buy another mustang right now. You must have a freak of nature. I mean shit the only mods doing you any good besides that weak ass cam is your exhaust and gears. You may have a different MAF but with that 48mm TB it is not doing you any good and may even be hurting. That cam is way too small, and with the stock heads you are probably seening minimal if any gains at all. I used to be a mustang freak before I owned my LT1, and I can guarandamntee you that with those mods, you could not come close to a well driven STOCK LS1. Shit even a well driven LT1 would be a challenge. I am not doubting your times at all because where you are located and where I am the same car can run completely different times. But I'm sure that LS1's around there run better times too. But shit I guess GM was stupid for giving those cars another 48 CI (44 on the LS1) and almost 100 RWHP, cause shit, any guy with a few mods on his Foxbody could beat an fbody.
48mm TB????? what are you talking about? Stock TB is even 59mm, so where does 48 come in when his sig says 70mm? And you mention stock heads??? GT 40Ps are some pretty impressive heads. Maybe if you traveled to a NMRA race you would see the times these guys turn with a cobra intake and some GT40ps. I bet his car will run mid 12s and i know that will touch your average LS1

I am sorry Kenny, thought i read 92 somewhere. My fault. A mph of 101 is getting LS1 close, you may have more hp under the hood that originally thought. For comparison, my friends 98 A4 Z28 pulled 13.3 @ 105. He prolly had about 300ish rwhp, no? So 101 would POSSIBLY be indicative of mid 200's? I dont know, anyone???

4.6's run 101+mph with 230ish rwhp. He is lighter than a 4.6l also. There is no way he has mid 200rwhp with those mods. Like I stated before, he is most likely 215-220ish rwhp going by what other guys have dyno'd with similar mods.

A buddy of mine around town and I , took his white vert '93 5.0 to moroso and ran a 15.1 That was a convertible and automatic car. I wasnt impressed. From then on, ive been wanting a LS1 but id love to have a little notchback to play around with too.

Convertible and AOD kills it. Probably had 3.08 or 3.27 gears too. Conv are heavier than GTs. So watching them run would steer you from a mustang. Most AODs run like crap also unless they are built aods.

Is that with stock tires? The variables are to keep some type standard to base a comparison off of. I have no doubt that when you run longturbes, shortbelt, H/C/I, -200lbs weight, 4.10gear and stickies etc. that a 5.0 should kill a stockish fbody..

Of course they werent stock tires the subject changed there. Do you get out your rule book every time you get in a race? The best 60' Ive managed on the Michelins was 1.91. I saw a 1.85 once from my buddies Notch when he had mufflers only but thats the extent of that.

I'm sure their cars are a little more setup for good 60's. Did you have a gear or sticky tires? Did they?

Stock suspension, stock 3.08 gear with ET Streets with the 1.6, they sell ET streets for F-bodies too. I hardly think a tire change shouldnt be allowed.

Considering the 0-60 times...I think it should be a decent amount of space.

I told you for the sake of comparing what my G-Tech times were for my stock 5.0L vs my stock LS1. While the G-Techs not accurate time wise if you do the test in like conditions you are going to get comparable results.

I don't know how this thread turned into comparing mods. The question was concerning a STOCK fox vs. a STOCK LS1. Stock gears, exhaust etc. Stock vs. stock an LS1 will kill a stock 5.0. no qustions asked or needed... period. The answer to the original question is= you will beat a stock fox baddly, by several car lengths. Who cares what you ran with gears, slicks, exhaust, etc. I don't know what the debate is. It isn't even worth discussing. The answer to the original question is a well known and non-debatable fact.

15.1 in a vert AOD 5.0 is pretty dang good for what it is. I will 100% vouch for the AOD sucking ass. I lost to an MKIV supra twice due to my shitty AOD (had modded EVERYTHING BUT the tranny at that point) First loss was a 65 mph roll where I only held him off for 3 seconds or so b/c my tranny would NOT downshift. Second loss was at a redlight (same car) when i pulled him ok through 1st but then my tranny short shifted into 3rd and soon after, OD and he blew by me. That was a tranny with issues though, it slipped HORRIBLE (as in, i could rev it at you at 60 mph and not get anything but sound, no go, just slip.) So dont judge the AOD cars really, they suck (as a rule). As do most ford automatic tranny's

They work ok, like mine with the shift shuffle......for a while any way. Mine gets 2nd gear rubber and its stock.lol. AODs rob power like hell. Thats why me and my buddies couldnt figure out how mine went 9.08 with the aod. Most of the aod cars around here runs mid 9s to low 10s. in the 1/8 ,not qtr.

I don't know how this thread turned into comparing mods. The question was concerning a STOCK fox vs. a STOCK LS1. Stock gears, exhaust etc. Stock vs. stock an LS1 will kill a stock 5.0. no qustions asked or needed... period. The answer to the original question is= you will beat a stock fox baddly, by several car lengths. Who cares what you ran with gears, slicks, exhaust, etc. I don't know what the debate is. It isn't even worth discussing. The answer to the original question is a well known and non-debatable fact.

I dont know, it got brought up somehow. My only contention was 1/8 mile or under in showroom stock.

But hey since it got brought up why not argue about it. Its not like theres a whole lot more to do in a kills forum :)

QUOTE:But hey since it got brought up why not argue about it. Its not like theres a whole lot more to do in a kills forum


Great point! :jest: My dad could beat up your dad lol.

They work ok, like mine with the shift shuffle......for a while any way. Mine gets 2nd gear rubber and its stock.lol. AODs rob power like hell. Thats why me and my buddies couldnt figure out how mine went 9.08 with the aod. Most of the aod cars around here runs mid 9s to low 10s. in the 1/8 ,not qtr.

Well every once in awhile one actually works. Ive a buddy that has a mostly stock Coupe with a stock AOD and a Super Coupe stall (2000 rpm or so) and with a 150 shot runs 11.20@119. Then Ive got another buddy with a AFR/FTI/Edelbrock 306 with an AOD and a 3200 TCI and runs 12.30@113 on a 150 shot. They are both stock AODs the one in the 306 car has a stock rebuild and like 2k miles on it, while the other cars is the stock 100k one.

QUOTE:But hey since it got brought up why not argue about it. Its not like theres a whole lot more to do in a kills forum


Great point! :jest: My dad could beat up your dad lol.

Nothing like a good Mustang vs F-body thread. Im the exact opposite on the Mustang sites. Defend the LS1 to the end.

Nothing like a good Mustang vs F-body thread. Im the exact opposite on the Mustang sites. Defend the LS1 to the end.
We can all agree to disagree enough said.

I'd like to have a good Lentech Aod for my coupe....

I'd like to have a good Lentech Aod for my coupe....

Sounds like you need to start a foxbody discussion thread. :judge:

I'd like to have a good Lentech Aod for my coupe....


TH400, much better.

Of course they werent stock tires the subject changed there. Do you get out your rule book every time you get in a race? The best 60' Ive managed on the Michelins was 1.91. I saw a 1.85 once from my buddies Notch when he had mufflers only but thats the extent of that.Common sense is my rule book :) Someone brought up what a stock 5.0 runs, I then commented on what power mods it would take to get a basically stock(-power mods) 5.0 into the high 12's-low 13's while staying legal.



Stock suspension, stock 3.08 gear with ET Streets with the 1.6, they sell ET streets for F-bodies too. I hardly think a tire change shouldnt be allowed. Not many people role around on ET streets everyday. Yes, they sell ET streets for fbodies and I bet fbodies could do nearly as well on them. So, now we're back to where we started on street tires. This is why I set the standard for comparison. Like I said, compare stock to "stock" and allow the fox to have any off the shelf H/C/I and bolt-ons that go with it. This will make for a much more simple debate. :cry:



I told you for the sake of comparing what my G-Tech times were for my stock 5.0L vs my stock LS1. While the G-Techs not accurate time wise if you do the test in like conditions you are going to get comparable results.Individual results will vary I guess. I hate to bring up mags, but they are somewhat comparable with a large number of test. Anyway, if you were to average all the test, an fbody would be atleast .7-1.0 sec. faster 0-60. This isn't set in stone, but it gives you a good idea of how much faster the fbody is.

Dude according to your sig you run 13.10. My coupe has alot less bolt ons than your brothers and runs 13.30 at 101 and 8.40 in the eigth. Your bros stang should be runnig at least 12.80s or better I still have my stock intake and e7heads . With the mods he has he should trapp at least 108 mph inthe quarter , so from a roll he should drag you pretty good. Guess he just needs drag radials.

I raced him with 3.73s and spec clutch (for what difference the clutch makes on an easy launch) 1/4 tank of gas and tire pressure adjusted. My best ETs were before these changes but both times were on street tires. He has street tires too. As to why I pulled so hard from him when I hit 3rd, I can only assume it has to do with the details of the assembly (no port matching), possible early shift due to a stock tach (and him not wanting to tear it up), less than 900 miles on new motor, and the car being tuned with just a fuel pressure regulator. He bought it this way and won't take it for a tune and hasn't tracked it yet. Still breaking in. I also suspect the cam was installed straight up. The car will catch 4th gear but slows above 4800 rpm. But the GT40 heads (iron) just don't compare well to TFS or AFRs. 12 years ago, they were bad, but for building a strong daily driver, there are better options. Your car sounds like it performs really well though.

wow look what i started...i have been gone for a while look to check and see what people have said and we have a 7 page forum about fox vs. the ls1...wow

Right on, I love my GT40P's, higher port velocity than AFR,twisted wedge, etc. and smaller valves, but it only sacrifices about 25 CFM to the X303 ford aluminum heads, all in all, less peak HP but more low-midrange power imho from what I hear.

Common sense is my rule book :) Someone brought up what a stock 5.0 runs, I then commented on what power mods it would take to get a basically stock(-power mods) 5.0 into the high 12's-low 13's while staying legal.

And I told you, its been done with gearing and slicks. Unlikely the average Joe would be able to repeat it but mostly stock 5.0Ls have gone 12s.


Not many people role around on ET streets everyday. Yes, they sell ET streets for fbodies and I bet fbodies could do nearly as well on them. So, now we're back to where we started on street tires. This is why I set the standard for comparison. Like I said, compare stock to "stock" and allow the fox to have any off the shelf H/C/I and bolt-ons that go with it. This will make for a much more simple debate. :cry:

An off the shelf H/C/I car would destroy a mostly stock LS1 end of story, sure plenty of dipshits get beat by stock LS1s but a mild H/C/I car with all your mindless parameters driven and maintained by somebody with their shit together is going to put a hurtin' on a stock LS1. Dont believe me, spend some time on the Corral. Real life isnt simple especially when it comes to racing cars.


Individual results will vary I guess. I hate to bring up mags, but they are somewhat comparable with a large number of test. Anyway, if you were to average all the test, an fbody would be atleast .7-1.0 sec. faster 0-60.

I saw a 14 second run for an M6 LS1 f-body in R&T do you want to use that one for comparison. Mag times suck and according to my real world results the 0-60 was almost dead even. Then again Ive mostly got my shit together.

...but it gives you a good idea of how much faster the fbody is.

Excuse me but do you have 5.0L and LS1 of your own, not your buddies car you can drive or race but one of your own? I happen to own both, and once upoun a time they were both stock and I drug it out between them many times. I happen to know how much faster the F-body is and you know what? According to my original statement they are a good race 1/8 mile and under. So I guess it comes down to you calling me a liar, why dont you just come out and say it so we can stop running around in circles.

Even sounds about right, cause Like I said, I have run and outrun many of them till the 1/8 mile marker. Afetr that it turns on me cause my lil 302 aint enuf!

I agree, the LS1 is weak on the bottom end compared to how it performs up top. As stated, my mostly stock LT1 with 2.73's put a serious hurting on one until 50mph or so. From a roll, he destroyed my LT1, but the point was down low. Down low, I feel pretty confident my friend in his lightly modded LX (who indeed has claimed to have given serious comp to LS1's from a dig) could take one from a dig. He only has 3.55's or 3.73's (previous owner install, he is not sure, hasnt seen fot to know for sure really.) CAI, pullies, and exhaust. HE held dead even with me from 20-60mph after which we shut down b/c location. (went from 20 b/c neither of us got good traction.) So yes, I would say that the LS1 is a dog down low compared to how it does on teh big end, which is quite well in my experience.

I agree, the LS1 is weak on the bottom end compared to how it performs up top. As stated, my mostly stock LT1 with 2.73's put a serious hurting on one until 50mph or so. From a roll, he destroyed my LT1, but the point was down low. Down low, I feel pretty confident my friend in his lightly modded LX (who indeed has claimed to have given serious comp to LS1's from a dig) could take one from a dig. He only has 3.55's or 3.73's (previous owner install, he is not sure, hasnt seen fot to know for sure really.) CAI, pullies, and exhaust. HE held dead even with me from 20-60mph after which we shut down b/c location. (went from 20 b/c neither of us got good traction.) So yes, I would say that the LS1 is a dog down low compared to how it does on teh big end, which is quite well in my experience.


As weak as a stock LS1 "feels" on the bottom end, it is already making more rwhp than the stock 5.0's "peak" rwhp at only 3200 rpms. Like you said, the low end only "feels" weak, because the mid and upper rpm range are so good.

And I told you, its been done with gearing and slicks. Unlikely the average Joe would be able to repeat it but mostly stock 5.0Ls have gone 12s. Show me someone who has ran 12's in a full weight 5.0 with nothing but a gear and slicks. It may have happened, but it's probably as rare as a 12.6 stock fbody. In fact, I've never heard of such a claim. Cosby ran 12.99 in a coupe with a few more mods than that, but we all know he is a 0.001%'er.




An off the shelf H/C/I car would destroy a mostly stock LS1 end of story, sure plenty of dipshits get beat by stock LS1s but a mild H/C/I car with all your mindless parameters driven and maintained by somebody with their shit together is going to put a hurtin' on a stock LS1. Are you sure about that? An off the shelf H/C/I car is going to put down 280-290rwhp while keeping emissions and accesories. An fbody would make slightly more power. The only thing seperating the two would be weight. If you compare hardtop to hardtop we're talking about 200lbs give or take a few. Dont believe me, spend some time on the Corral. Real life isnt simple especially when it comes to racing cars. I'm at Corral often.




I saw a 14 second run for an M6 LS1 f-body in R&T do you want to use that one for comparison. Why use one car? That is why I said take the average of multiple test. Mag times suck and according to my real world results the 0-60 was almost dead even. Then again Ive mostly got my shit together.Key word is MY...your individual results may work for you, but it should be repeatable by many others.



Excuse me but do you have 5.0L and LS1 of your own, not your buddies car you can drive or race but one of your own? As a matter of fact, I do have a 90 LX 5.0. It's isn't running on it's last leg either with 90k babied miles. I happen to own both, and once upoun a time they were both stock and I drug it out between them many times. I happen to know how much faster the F-body is and you know what? I know plenty :) According to my original statement they are a good race 1/8 mile and under. So I guess it comes down to you calling me a liar, why dont you just come out and say it so we can stop running around in circles.No, I'm not calling you a liar....it may be true for you. But, for me and others I know and see on the net, it's not true.

Show me someone who has ran 12's in a full weight 5.0 with nothing but a gear and slicks. It may have happened, but it's probably as rare as a 12.6 stock fbody. In fact, I've never heard of such a claim. Cosby ran 12.99 in a coupe with a few more mods than that, but we all know he is a 0.001%'er.

If you read my previous post on the matter I clearly stated more than gear and a slick, I rounded for the sake of less typing in the last post. Yes sure theres other crap you've got to do but none of it is modifying the long block. Note where I said that it for sure was a rarity. I believe I specified that numerous times in this thread. And no I cant remember specific examples, I said previously "I remember back in the day when the recipe for 12s was..." Saw it happen once.


Are you sure about that? An off the shelf H/C/I car is going to put down 280-290rwhp while keeping emissions and accesories. An fbody would make slightly more power. The only thing seperating the two would be weight. If you compare hardtop to hardtop we're talking about 200lbs give or take a few. I'm at Corral often..


Really if so why do you seem so in the dark about Mustangs. They have more advantages on F-Bodies than weight. Yes a 280 rwhp Fox is going to be faster than a 300 rwhp F-body. Probably not from a 100-150 mph roll, Ill give that but its going to out 1/4 mile. You can put a slick on both if you like.



Why use one car? That is why I said take the average of multiple test. Key word is MY...your individual results may work for you, but it should be repeatable by many others.

Unlike mag racing I was using a real life example. Seems to work out much better that way. That way I know the actual conditions of the test.


As a matter of fact, I do have a 90 LX 5.0. It's isn't running on it's last leg either with 90k babied miles. I know plenty :) No, I'm not calling you a liar....it may be true for you. But, for me and others I know and see on the net, it's not true.

Then if you have so much personal experience why do you feel the need to mag race? Maybe you could have said something to the effect of "Well my LS1 tears up my 5.0L" then instead of angering me with ricetastic mag-racing we could have agreed to disagree.

If you read my previous post on the matter I clearly stated more than gear and a slick, I rounded for the sake of less typing in the last post. Yes sure theres other crap you've got to do but none of it is modifying the long block. Well in that case, you can put an LS1 in the low 11's-high10's without modifying the long block. What else did you say it took to run 12's...I missed that part. Is it relavant? No. Gear and slicks has nothing to do with my original claim. Note where I said that it for sure was a rarity. I believe I specified that numerous times in this thread. And no I cant remember specific examples, I said previously "I remember back in the day when the recipe for 12s was..." Saw it happen once. I saw where you said it was unlikely, but why even bring up such unlikely events?





Really if so why do you seem so in the dark about Mustangs. They have more advantages on F-Bodies than weight. Yes a 280 rwhp Fox is going to be faster than a 300 rwhp F-body. Probably not from a 100-150 mph roll, Ill give that but its going to out 1/4 mile. You can put a slick on both if you like. If you would have read my other post, I said a fox MAY be .2-.4 faster. What other advantages does a fox have besides being a couple hundred pounds lighter? Oh and don't give me that gear and slicks line. Remember the following: 1) radials 2) stock gearing 3) emissions legal 4) full weight 5) hardtop vs. hardtop:) If you don't agree to this, you are trying to debate things that I never said, or claimed.





Unlike mag racing I was using a real life example. Seems to work out much better that way. That way I know the actual conditions of the test. I think you're a little confused as to what constitutes real. YOUR veiws and experiences don't make something a fact.




Then if you have so much personal experience why do you feel the need to mag race? Maybe you could have said something to the effect of "Well my LS1 tears up my 5.0L" then instead of angering me with ricetastic mag-racing we could have agreed to disagree.Well, presenting my experiences wouldn't be true to the scientific method now would it? I saw a ghost yesterday; does that make it fact? No. When you can site 20 different test backed by actual numbers it's more likely to be credible. Additionally, I've never seen anyone claim to have run 5.0 0-60 in a stock fox. I don't think the 99-04's even get down that low.

u have 2.73's? cause 0-60 is first gear alone
Soory for the misunder standing. I meant he staid ahead of my bumper all first gear. I was topping off 2nd when i pass him. :jest: