Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - 572 cubic inch GM crate engine...question

Last night on "Rides" they showed the build-up of that motor part by part at the GM facility. It was the 620 hp 9:1 compression 572 engine. Thats about 525 RWHP.

They said they offer a 12:1 compression model that has 720 hp, so about 610 RWHP.

How is it that a 572 cubic inch engine with 12:1 compression makes only about 100 RWHP more than my MUCH smaller 436 11.3:1 cr, streetable, pump gas engine. Better heads, cam and better intake and I'm right there. And only 50 RWHP or so more than some of the other more powerful LSx based engines that are pump gas a daily drivers. (ie: LGM 06' Z06, Vince)

I would expect a monster BB to easily be putting down like 700-750 RWHP with no problem. MORE Performance has a 427 LS6 engine with 725 FWHP, more than a 572 BB race crate engine...doesn't make sense.


:confused:
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Keep in mind these are CRATE motors. They're designed for the guy that wants to drop it in his car and just put gas in it or close to it and be ultra reliable. They're far from an all out custom race engine designed to make max. HP. Hell, my very basic 496 makes almost 100 hp more than the 572 race vesion.

Keep in mind these are CRATE motors. They're designed for the guy that wants to drop it in his car and just put gas in it or close to it and be ultra reliable. They're far from an all out custom race engine designed to make max. HP. Hell, my very basic 496 makes almost 100 hp more than the 572 race vesion.

But its already 572 cubic inches and 12:1 cr. The intake a carbs are pretty badass and the heads outflow our heads by a long long way.

Where else are they going to do to get more power from that crate engine. What else can be done for them to put out more EXCEPT for raising compression? Cam upgrade only I guess? Because our compression is less than that 12:1 572 engine.


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its called a warrenty

Exactly.

Not to mention the motor and heads are old designs and are no were as effcient as the LS style motors. We also dont knwo the specs or the cam or how well the heads flow. Just becasue it is a big motor doesnt mean it will make huge power. This is apples to oranges.

I'd bet a cam change would help that lazy 572 a LOT! But yes, also keep in mind you have a way more efficient engine alltogether than the BBC's 40+ year old technology.

alright. So I guess a BBC made for the street as far as a pretty good idle goes could easily make 750-800 RWHP on pump gas?


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alright. So I guess a BBC made for the street as far as a pretty good idle goes could easily make 750-800 RWHP on pump gas?


Making that kind of power in any motor on pump gas will never be easy. I think the main problem is that most people think, "it has large cubic inches it will just ooze power no matter what." This is not true. You would need to have a fairly large cam and heads that flow to make 1K HP out of a BBC. This will make it hard to due on pump gas and the idle will not be very smooth at all.

Are we talking N/A or going with FI?

If you put quality heads on a BBC (i.e. some nice AFR's), and cam it properly, it will stomp all over any lsx.

My next motor will be a short stroke, big bore (472ish ci) solid roller, and it will make a ton of rwhp n/a on pump gas.

3 words for you.....Fast Times Motorworks! they offered to build me a 588 or 598 BBC, n/a pump gas motor that would cost about the same as that 572 race version, ($19-$20,000), with fuel inj., and make 950 fwhp!!! did i say using pump gas? well, i'm going a little bit of a different route now, but the motor of choice is still Fast Times based!

This is a good article from Hot Rod Mag. 1000+hp, pump gas

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0206_1000/index.html

Who cares if its a small difference and only makes 100 more or less ...did you see the motor abuse the tires on the chevelle and the sound "sigh" If you need more add 200 shot lol..GM has a quality drop in crate motor. If you wanted more i am sure you can spend a grand more and get a roller valvetrain. if you heard the guy making the motor they use the same heads as the 12:1 uses. Did I mention what that motor did to those tires....

arent big blocks know more for tq then HP?

Who cares if its a small difference and only makes 100 more or less ...did you see the motor abuse the tires on the chevelle and the sound "sigh" If you need more add 200 shot lol..GM has a quality drop in crate motor. If you wanted more i am sure you can spend a grand more and get a roller valvetrain. if you heard the guy making the motor they use the same heads as the 12:1 uses. Did I mention what that motor did to those tires....

You talking about the show Rides? She was just power breaking it. I have the same power (+/- 10) as that 572 BBC they put in that Chevelle with my 436ci.

I didn't know you could send them extra cash and get a solid roller set up and better heads from the factory with 12:1. Now you'd be talking 800-900 hp.

arent big blocks know more for tq then HP?


Most anything with big cubes is know for torque. It all depends on how you set it up.

This is a good article from Hot Rod Mag. 1000+hp, pump gas

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0206_1000/index.html

Holy shit man, I love that sun-bitch. Too bad that won't fit into an F-Body.

Can that engine be made with fuel injection and make the same power?


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Holy shit man, I love that sun-bitch. Too bad that won't fit into an F-Body.

Can that engine be made with fuel injection and make the same power?


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BBC "WILL" fit into an F-body. that's a big part of how this forum got started, because it was my original plans to it. it's been done before by several others. and if you get the tune right, sure, you'll make the same power with EFI, and be a ton more efficient and divable too.

BBC "WILL" fit into an F-body. that's a big part of how this forum got started, because it was my original plans to it. it's been done before by several others. and if you get the tune right, sure, you'll make the same power with EFI, and be a ton more efficient and divable too.

Who does this type of work to get the engine in the car? I assume its alot of fabbing. Is there a kit?

Fast Times hasen't returned my e-mails yet. I see they advertise the 1000 hp/940 torqe engine on their websire home page. Is this basically the same type of engine as in the article? Do they tune it with fuel injection if you want that?

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you'd have to talk to them about the specifics. and i can't imagine that there is a kit for this. there are a couple sponsors that sell k-members either with BBC/SBC mounting points, or without and mounts at all for a front and mid plate setup. headers would likely have to be fabbed. the only person i know off the top of my head who'd done this with success is BradyZ. find him and you'll find some great answers. and as far as i know, Fast Times closes at 5pm central dialy and closed on the weekends. but don't take my word for it.

you'd have to talk to them about the specifics. and i can't imagine that there is a kit for this. there are a couple sponsors that sell k-members either with BBC/SBC mounting points, or without and mounts at all for a front and mid plate setup. headers would likely have to be fabbed. the only person i know off the top of my head who'd done this with success is BradyZ. find him and you'll find some great answers. and as far as i know, Fast Times closes at 5pm central dialy and closed on the weekends. but don't take my word for it.

For some reason my e-mails came back to me and I didn't realize it til tonight. I resent it tonight and they got back to me in like 30 minutes, on a Sat. night :eek2:

He said it can be done too, I'll be chating with them this week.

:)

PRAY HRD,

Do you know what those DART 18* heads flow?

For some reason my e-mails came back to me and I didn't realize it til tonight. I resent it tonight and they got back to me in like 30 minutes, on a Sat. night :eek2:

He said it can be done too, I'll be chating with them this week.

:)


i said they were great to deal with! :judge: the Dart 18's when ported are supposed to flow about 370-380cfm. they are extremely efficient and are so close to the sb2.2 NASCAR heads that i don't think there's really a reason to spend the extra $$$ on anything else unless it's a max effort setup. mine are the raised port heads that are like $3500. i think i heard that there was some other Dart 18* heads, but i'm not positive. if opened up, they'll take 2.20I/1.625E valves! i'm no expert on engine building or anything, but these heads are f*in killer. they are the best inline valve heads available period.

i said they were great to deal with! :judge: the Dart 18's when ported are supposed to flow about 370-380cfm. they are extremely efficient and are so close to the sb2.2 NASCAR heads that i don't think there's really a reason to spend the extra $$$ on anything else unless it's a max effort setup. mine are the raised port heads that are like $3500. i think i heard that there was some other Dart 18* heads, but i'm not positive. if opened up, they'll take 2.20I/1.625E valves! i'm no expert on engine building or anything, but these heads are f*in killer. they are the best inline valve heads available period.

Are they better than the LS7 head? I know ones a DART head and one is an LSx head, just curious.

So did I misunderstand someone when I was told that there are heads for a small block DART engine that flow 440cfm? Maybe they were talking BBC heads.

Yeah, after getting their e-mail, which was pretty lengthy and informative, I'm seriously considering a BB DART that they advertise that makes 1,000 hp on pump gas. They said EFI is no probelm. And a 200-300 shot is no problem.
They also said in the e-mail that I would need a turbo or SC'er if I went SBC DART, but it would be silly powerful.

Imagine 1,000 fwhp and a progressively controlled 250 shot. It would be sick in the 1/4 mile and from a roll. I just love the raw power of N/A, thats why I'd rather go that way with spray.

We'll see soon enough what I'll do :drive: Just takes cash, right?


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i WAS going to do a twin turbo setup, but i just decided to scrap the project Friday due to money issues. turbo's will always be there, so when i get the finances going, i may proceed with it then. for now, i'm going to be posting up my turbo's and 321 stainless to be able to get the running finally. the little turbo's i was going to use would have spooled up extremely fast and made 1200 fwhp on 93 octane! it would have also made 1000 fwtq! a guy my chassis/car builder knows has already done it and this was to be a copycat setup for the most part. you should check out his site, it's pretty bad ass. www.montygwilliams.com he sold the car a while ago, but just purchased another vette to start over with. that whole setup was built by Fast Times too and all claims were varified....1200hp/1000fwtq, on 93 oct., and max power was made by 6500rpm!!!! it was a truly unbelievable street car. as it turns out, the car was bought by a guy in Hawaii and he sent it to Behind Bars Race Cars, local to me, and he modified the intake, tubbed it, 4 linked it, caged it, and put in twin 70mm turbo's and the car was last reported running 7.30's in the 170+ mph range using all the same components that were in the motor already. Fast Times also does work for Don Walsh(?) if i remember right. one of the Pro 5.0 guys. lots of wins and 6 second times. they do some great work for such a small shop, but you get the person touch because of it. let me know what you decide to do, should be badass either way. all it takes is money.........LOT'S of $$$$$.

quickin, is there a website on that BB DART?

quickin, is there a website on that BB DART?

Here's an article on one that someone built:
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0206_1000/index.html

This is Fast Times Motorworks site with the advertised 1,000 hp pump gas BBC:
http://www.fasttimesmotorworks.com/

www.montygwilliams.com

So did Fast Times just do his machining and he assembled everything himself?

I guess to go twin turbo a small block is all thats needed.

I was talking with Gayle Banks about their 1,600 fwhp TT 427 DART (small block). Thats the kind of power I want, like 1,500 RWHP. Full time race gas is fine with me.

I suppose FTM can build a small block LSx engine (WarHawk block) to make 1,500 RWHP too.


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So did Fast Times just do his machining and he assembled everything himself?

I guess to go twin turbo a small block is all thats needed.

I was talking with Gayle Banks about their 1,600 fwhp TT 427 DART (small block). Thats the kind of power I want, like 1,500 RWHP. Full time race gas is fine with me.

I suppose FTM can build a small block LSx engine (WarHawk block) to make 1,500 RWHP too.


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yea, from what i understand they did everything but assemble it. Monty's pretty good at that stuff though, he just didn't have the equipment a shop would have to prep everything. that motor is making that 1600hp and more on race fuel now with running 7.30's in the 1/4 mile! and i think i misquoted the mph. i think it's in the 180's, not 170's. fast either way. i'm sure there are plenty of places that could build a motor the right way, i just like being able to talk to my builder and having him know me on a first name basis, that's why i like Fast Times.

back on topic, i remember reading i carcraft that when they tested the 572/620 it made over 700bhp and the 572/720 made over 800bhp (they also ran the higher compression motor on pump gas and still made great power). GM is conservative with their ratings so even the stingiest dyno will back up their ratings.

back on topic, i remember reading i carcraft that when they tested the 572/620 it made over 700bhp and the 572/720 made over 800bhp (they also ran the higher compression motor on pump gas and still made great power). GM is conservative with their ratings so even the stingiest dyno will back up their ratings.

The show I saw did their own engine dyno test on the show and it was right at 620 fwhp, I think it was 628 or something, they used their own headers, so they're very close to the 620 thats advertised. That would be crazy to under rate those engines by 80 FWHP.


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Quickin, if you are thinking about a BBC in a 4th gen you can check out Brady's site...

www.teamprickracing.com

Alot of good info on there not only about a 540BBC in a 4th gen but also his single turbo SBC monster that he built and ran 8's with.... But keep in mind that you don't necessarily need a BBC to make 1500hp if that's your goal... Realistically an easier (well not easier) but another way to do it is with either a twin turbo or single turbo smallblock. The packaging of getting the motor in the car will be easier but the custom work of all the piping is going to be pricey believe me.... But wedging a BBC in there is no small feat either. One of my best friends has a twin turbo Buick GN with a small block. Here's a pic...

http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/Buick1/launch.jpg

Makes ALL of 1500 hp and he can drive it on the street.... It's all about which direction you want to go. all it takes is the money and the drive/time...

Oh also someone made a comment about "those heads on a BBC flow way more than our heads".... That is true HOWEVER you are comparing OUR air requirements with the air requirements of a 572BBC. Those heads that come on those 572 crate motors flow ALOT of air but nowhere near what a set of fully ported AFR BBC race heads would flow.... If you put some AFR's or Dart heads on there, a bigger carb, roller valvetrain and a fat solid roller cam that 572 would crank out power and torque like it was going out of style.... Easily would surpass 800-900hp..... If your heads were providing your engine with 90% of it's required air and it made X horsepower, and a 572 BBC was getting 90% of it's required air it would make X plus horsepower with all things being equal.... cause the 572 cubic inches is always gonna make more power than lesser cubic inches if everything else is equal..... WHEW!!! I'm tired....

like some one said that motor is built with off teh shelf gm parts not brodix cnc heads or comp cams xtream cams.... you tell me if you can take your stock 348 cubic inche motor strap it to a dyno and run it 24 hours long producing the steady 620 horse that the 572 is packing... i would imagine a hugh messs. the motor is a in one word awesome. not to mention it produces torque at rpm numbers low enough to count on one hand its a impressive mill. just my .2

Quickin, if you are thinking about a BBC in a 4th gen you can check out Brady's site...

www.teamprickracing.com

Alot of good info on there not only about a 540BBC in a 4th gen but also his single turbo SBC monster that he built and ran 8's with.... But keep in mind that you don't necessarily need a BBC to make 1500hp if that's your goal... Realistically an easier (well not easier) but another way to do it is with either a twin turbo or single turbo smallblock. The packaging of getting the motor in the car will be easier but the custom work of all the piping is going to be pricey believe me.... But wedging a BBC in there is no small feat either. One of my best friends has a twin turbo Buick GN with a small block. Here's a pic...

http://www.fasttrackperformance.com/Buick1/launch.jpg

Makes ALL of 1500 hp and he can drive it on the street.... It's all about which direction you want to go. all it takes is the money and the drive/time...

Oh also someone made a comment about "those heads on a BBC flow way more than our heads".... That is true HOWEVER you are comparing OUR air requirements with the air requirements of a 572BBC. Those heads that come on those 572 crate motors flow ALOT of air but nowhere near what a set of fully ported AFR BBC race heads would flow.... If you put some AFR's or Dart heads on there, a bigger carb, roller valvetrain and a fat solid roller cam that 572 would crank out power and torque like it was going out of style.... Easily would surpass 800-900hp..... If your heads were providing your engine with 90% of it's required air and it made X horsepower, and a 572 BBC was getting 90% of it's required air it would make X plus horsepower with all things being equal.... cause the 572 cubic inches is always gonna make more power than lesser cubic inches if everything else is equal..... WHEW!!! I'm tired....

The thought of having approximately 850 RWHP on pump gas with a normally aspirated engine puts chills down my spine. Fast Times Motorworks builds them. They also told me they could certainly get the BBC in my car.

But 850 RWHP just isn't enough for the type of runs I like, which is from a roll. There's alot of 1,000+ RWHP cars running around here. I'm sure that same 850 RWHP engine and a 200-300 progressive shot would beat almost anything on the road however. It seems a single turbo on a SBC is the best way to go for the big power, like 1,300+ RWHP.

Monty built a pretty awesome TT Dart engine, Fast Times Motorworks did all the machining of the engine, I think its 1,600 hp now. He's building a new twin-turbo LSx based engine using the Warhawk block that should make 1,500 RWHP.

I'll be talking to FTM this week, we'll see what they come up with.

As far as the custom piping needed for a turbo set-up, I was thinking just use the Hi-Flo single turbo kit ($4,700) and use an appropriate turbo for the power I want. The piping job is done already. Unless the turbo needed won't fit where the battery goes.


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cam in the 572 is 254/264 .632/.632 not sure on the LSA
the 720hp version has 266/274 .714/.714 cam in it.

cam in the 572 .....

the 720hp version has 266/274 .714/.714 cam in it.


interesting, thats pretty small for a 572 race engine. my 496" BBC has a 285/294 .800/.765 cam in it.

Quickin, how much is the engine that'll do 850 HP on pump gas from Fast Times?

Quickin, how much is the engine that'll do 850 HP on pump gas from Fast Times?

Its about 850 RWHP too. 1,000 FWHP. I just approximated it with 15% drivetrain loss.

I'm gonna find out everything tomorrow on my BBC build and install project. Most likely if I go this BBC route I'll go for much more power on full-time race gas and better heads. I'll be talking to them tomorrow on the phone, also inquiring about a Warhawk blocked 408-422 low compression engine with a GT55-91mm turbo, a 1,500 RWHP project.

www.fasttimesmotorworks.com maybe they have a privce, I don't remember.

I got an answering machine today.

:)

interesting, thats pretty small for a 572 race engine. my 496" BBC has a 285/294 .800/.765 cam in it.

How big do cams get for a BBC, numbers-wise.

Give me an example of specs on what would be considered a huge cam....yet daily drivable.

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might want to check out hardcore racing. they make a 454ci small block i think thats rated at 650hp. that would be a nice sleeper. ive seen one make i think like 1500hp with twin turbos. awesome engine imo.


i think the 572 engines that gm offers will love a bigger camshaft a little nitrous or blower. id love to have one.

Ya'll realize that both of those motors are under rated. I work for Apple Chevrolet (one of the biggest GM Performance Parts dealers in the US next to SDPP). I have talked to the tech Support for these engines multiple times and these guys know what there talking about. They test these engines for about 24 hours straight with varying RPM's. 7000 rpm in a big block is for extened periods of time is amazing. GM sent us DVD's of this engine and they scream. If any one needs a hookup on GMPP let me know, I can try to help you out or if you have any questions regarding the engines let me know.

i'm sure
wheel to wheel in michigan can build ya something nice. that place i heard is candyland for adults. i plan on visiting sometime this year.

i'm sure
wheel to wheel in michigan can build ya something nice. that place i heard is candyland for adults. i plan on visiting sometime this year.

From what I'm hearing, stay away from the LSx based engines for big power by way of boost. The WarHawk LS7X block from "WORLD" has 6 studs per cylinder so maybe that would be the best bet for a small block set-up if the LSx type block is used. 4 studs just doesn't cut it anymore.

But MY GOD, imagine using the FTM 598ci Procharged set-up :eek2: They're making 1,000 hp on pump gas with small heads and very little boost, completely streetable daily driver with fuel injection, crazy man.

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depends what your definition of big power is.. you can have all the power in the world but if you can't put it to the ground what's the sense in having it? You don't want a dyno queen you want a car that "RUNS"

lsx engines are comfortably making 1000 hp now, in fact Jose at forcedinductions.com just built a motor that put 1123 rwhp.

more headbolts per cylinder will keep those heads from lifting under BIG Boost but have your priced a bare block and bare heads for those lately? BIG $$$ How many people honestly need or want that much power for a street car? Unless you are Willie from Orlando you simply don't need it cause all you'll have is tire spin.

BBC's have been making over 1000 hp for years and years. Trying to do that on pump gas will take a lot of cubes.. It can be done easily with a blower on less than 10 lbs of boost with a F1 blower but have you priced a combo like that lately?


Bottom line you can you can debate and make a valid argument either way. Either combo can make sick power.

It takes a lot of money either way.

Throw some my way I want to go fast too!

depends what your definition of big power is.. you can have all the power in the world but if you can't put it to the ground what's the sense in having it? You don't want a dyno queen you want a car that "RUNS"

lsx engines are comfortably making 1000 hp now, in fact Jose at forcedinductions.com just built a motor that put 1123 rwhp.

more headbolts per cylinder will keep those heads from lifting under BIG Boost but have your priced a bare block and bare heads for those lately? BIG $$$ How many people honestly need or want that much power for a street car? Unless you are Willie from Orlando you simply don't need it cause all you'll have is tire spin.

BBC's have been making over 1000 hp for years and years. Trying to do that on pump gas will take a lot of cubes.. It can be done easily with a blower on less than 10 lbs of boost with a F1 blower but have you priced a combo like that lately?


Bottom line you can you can debate and make a valid argument either way. Either combo can make sick power.

It takes a lot of money either way.

Throw some my way I want to go fast too!

I don't understand why people just don't use wide R-Compound tires for street use, only when they plan to race. I only know one guy that uses them, 335's on his Viper. He has 800 RWHP and can stomp it to the floor from a 50-60 roll and not spin at all. Marko told me on the phone that his 1,520 RWHP Supra can go WOT from a 70 roll if he rolls into the throttle. Thats all you have to do with big power. Willie does it, right? My Viper friend does it with 980 RWHP.

Alot of cubes alright, the FTM BBC is a 598ci :eek2:

I'm really liking this thread! I have been trying to decide between a TT LSx or an all aluminum 598 with EFI, Hogans Intake, and coil per cylinder ignition. I have been talking with FTM for over a month now, and have gotten a pretty good quote for the complete 598 based off the new Brodix Block and heads, and supposed to make 900+FWHP. I just need to save 1/2 down so they can start building the engine.

R compound tires don't last and they're expensive.

rolling into the throttle is a science. Willie does not have this science figured out, everybody knows that, that is why he really won't run anybody with equal power. That is why he has to do high speed roll races.

I'd like to see that 800 rwhp viper

Marko has admitted that his car was spinning the tires at well over 100 mph, making a lot less power so I find it hard to believe with 1500 hp, he just pedaled it a little bit and then he hooked..

1500 hp is what prostock cars have to go 7's on big ass slicks and professional built chassis.

People make jokes about why some people cant drive their high hp cars (like Willie), its not as easy as you think. If it were as easy as just modulating the throttle everybody would hook on the street and on the track..Everyone would win. Its takes a combination of suspension and chassis setup to dial in the car and that usually takes a while before its all figured out.

I've seen high hp cars get beat by cars they should have destroyed because the slower car hooked better and had the all important driver mod factor.

I'm really liking this thread! I have been trying to decide between a TT LSx or an all aluminum 598 with EFI, Hogans Intake, and coil per cylinder ignition. I have been talking with FTM for over a month now, and have gotten a pretty good quote for the complete 598 based off the new Brodix Block and heads, and supposed to make 900+FWHP. I just need to save 1/2 down so they can start building the engine.

I was at the US Nationals at Bradenton this past weekend, let me give you an idea of what a single turbo (94mm) 408 ls1 motor can do in a 3400 lb Formula race car.

It went 8.1 at 174 mph going into a 20 mph headwind on 315/60/15 drag radials.

Do a search on the Ohio Boys, they placed 4th out of a 36 car field. Motor was built by Wheel 2 Wheel in Michigan.

R compound tires don't last and they're expensive.

I know, just for races though. And R-Compound tires are very very cheap if you own a turbo Viper :) This guy has two sets of HRE 545 rims, one with street tires and one set with R-Compounds.


I'd like to see that 800 rwhp viper


I'm trying to set up a race between the 980 RWHP TT Viper and the cheezeball in the "Kills" section with the Lavernious turbo Mustang Mach 1. He can go WOT from a 70mph roll on with no spin on street radials. Hopefully it happens and we'll go down there and film it from one of the angles. He back to me today and said the guy is scared to race his friends 850 RWHP Viper so he's probably not going to want to run one that will totally destroy him. He knows the Mustang owner.

I'm really liking this thread! I have been trying to decide between a TT LSx or an all aluminum 598 with EFI, Hogans Intake, and coil per cylinder ignition. I have been talking with FTM for over a month now, and have gotten a pretty good quote for the complete 598 based off the new Brodix Block and heads, and supposed to make 900+FWHP. I just need to save 1/2 down so they can start building the engine.

I spoke with Graham, nice guy. I don't know how much a completely built, installed and tuned TT LSx based engine set up will cost because it would have to all be custom made. But if you spoke with him about the 598ci with the upgraded heads and larger Procharger, it can't be a huge difference in price. But you'll have 1,500 RWHP. I spoke with More Performance, Katech, even asked LPE at one time, and they all said if you use an LSx based engine it'll be a ticking time bomb at big power levels. Katech even said the C5R was designed to only make 750 hp. but people are pushing them for more.

I know people are making 1,200 and 1,300 RWHP with the LSx based engines but thats with C16 race gas and seriously built LSx's, they're running on the ragged edge. A BBC would be running easy. Thats why its a nice option.

The 1,000 hp BBC you were probably talking about was the mild 598ci with the small Procharger. Run on 91 0ctane everywhere you go and retain A/C and all other accessories. Than spray it if you want :devil:

If you go LSx based, use the Warhawk block. FTM is doing all of Monty's machine work on his Warhawk block when it comes in for his TT 427 build. He's going for 1,600 hp.

All this talk makes me almost pee my pants :drive:


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The engine I had quoted, from Graham, was actually my own specs to run NA at about 11 to 1 compression and still make 900+ FWHP.

The engine I had quoted, from Graham, was actually my own specs to run NA at about 11 to 1 compression and still make 900+ FWHP.

Big lumpy cam, or pretty smooth?


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Having a Big Block and NOT having a big nasty sounding cam is a mortal sin.

What I like about the small block lsx motors is that they are very efficient and they are light and they can built to rev very quickly and respond very well to turbos and superchargers.

its all about Power to weight ratio. That's why you see cam only cars hit bottom 10's. Also the front to rear ratio is about 55/45. With a BBC 598 ci with a procharger and I bet that will put you at 65/35. Can you say tire spin?


spending 30 plus grand on just a "mild" big block motor alone is ludicrous. I'd rather have a forced induction lsx motor that runs on c16 with forged internals. c16 is good insurance against detonation and on the street with normal driving you can put pump gas in. No special mods need to be done to make it all fit, just some fabricating for the intercooler pipes, simple combo that works.

If you would have came to bradenton to the US Nats and seen the Ohio boys turbo cars running, you'd see what I mean, they were running against Big block cars.

you're getting too hooked on dyno numbers, dynos don't win races.

my car full weight made 485 to the tire (before it was retuned) and its running consistent 11.0's in full street trim on a drag radial. My car probably weighs around 3550. I have no suspension done. I'm on pump gas. Just a good Supercharged combo and I didn't spend a lot of money.

I was thinking about your car and why its losing coolant. Then I remembered that your car is sleeved. Then I also remembered how everyone with sleeved blocks back in the day was dropping sleeves and having that mysterious coolant problem. I'll bet anything that is what's happening with your motor. I remember seeing a bit of whitish smoke when you gassed it.
I would not put forced induction on THAT motor.

for what its worth there was a guy that put a 509 in an LT1 with spray and only running low 11's. I was not impressed, he should have been MUCH faster and quicker. That car wasn't exactly mild either.

Your calculations on cost for the BBC are way off, I have a complete package with computer, ignition, hogans intake, totally complete 598 ci all aluminum tall deck blocked engine with about 950+FWHP(which weighs about the same as an aluminum headed cast iron small block, LT-1) quoted at about $20,000. Also, an LS1 with a turbo system would weigh about the same as this all aluminum BBC, and a turbo/TT actually gives worse weight distribution placing the turbos out on the corners toward the front of the car(some kits). To build a comparable LS1 would cost about the same as the 598 then add the 8-9000 for a TT kit, that is pushing $30,000. The Aluminum BBC seems have the best cost/hp and weight/hp. I'm pretty set on the 598...

if you are paying 30 grand for TT kit LS1 motor you are seriously getting raped with no vaseline. it does not cost 30 grand to build a TT ls1. The turbos don't weigh that much man! lol. the turbos are tucked close to the engine with the reverse mounted manifolds.

hey man if you think the 598 is the way to go, go for it. as long as its fast and runs its all good.

for the record how much does your aluminum BBC weigh?

I said to build a comparable LS1, meaning aftermarket (stronger) block C5R or Warhawk and every other component is about the same price as building the aluminum BBC. I guess I didn't make a point to say either engine choice I am starting at ground zero (my car has an LT1). I have run the numbers over and over, and I have been in touch with about any reasonable priced engine shop in the US. The cheapest turbo LSx engine I could build is a Scoggin Dickey 402LS2 and a single turbo kit which would cost about $21,000 (but not even close to as reliable mainly in block strength). I cannot give a 100% accurate weight without having the engine here, but my calculations come out to about 50-60lbs heavier than a LS1.

I say go all motor much simpler that way.When u see cars running 6`s,7`s ,8`s all motor ,u kinda ask yourself why do i need a turbo??.It`s up to u to decide which path to take.

you don't need a c5r block or warhawk block to run 20 lbs of boost or make 1,000 horsepower. I haven't heard one story of someone cracking a block at that level.

You can go with a 402 ls2 but its not needed, a simple forged 346 from wheel to wheel is around 4 grand, a set of AFR 225's is 2500, a nice single turbo kit-I'll figure high at 7 grand, and a turbo cam, etc will put you around $13,500 add in another 2500 to take car of the fuel system/incidentals and anything else and you're 15 g's. If you deal with a sponsor on this board they can cut you probably a better deal.

topend- who's running a pump gas all motor car that goes 6's, 7's or 8's??

topend- who's running a pump gas all motor car that goes 6's, 7's or 8's??

i dont know who ,but im sure it can be done.Not impossible.Why fuel make so much of a difference .U could make 1000 hp with race gas ,pump gas ,or alcohol whats the difference in power??. Are u going to say pump gas is the best???all fuels have their pros-cons.

People spend big money on their setup , so what race gas will break the bank??
Thats like a guy who buys a ferrari and cant afford to put gas in it.

The poster of this thread wants a motor that eclipses the 1,000 hp mark that runs on pump gas..

There are no motors on pump gas running those kind of 1/4 mi times for the record.

I'll agree with you on running better gas, running c16 is a good insurance

big difference in what fuel you run, allows more spark timing.

if ya can't afford to pay, then you can't afford to play.

The poster of this thread wants a motor that eclipses the 1,000 hp mark that runs on pump gas..

There are no motors on pump gas running those kind of 1/4 mi times for the record.



If someone were to drop the 1,000 hp 598ci Procharged BBC from FTM into an F-Body built for the drag strip, but still a street car. Like ARE's 8.49 second car.

What 1/4 mile time would 850 RWHP get you?

Its a 91 octane engine. I would say 8 second 1/4 mile times....NO?


.

My 423 RWHP sounds so insignificant after reading this thread :lol:

lol yea. but you can change that :yup:

If someone were to drop the 1,000 hp 598ci Procharged BBC from FTM into an F-Body built for the drag strip, but still a street car. Like ARE's 8.49 second car.

What 1/4 mile time would 850 RWHP get you?

Its a 91 octane engine. I would say 8 second 1/4 mile times....NO?


.

ARE's 8 second car had a good nitrous shot on it too, plus it had a narrowed rear with a big slick.

X amount of horsepower doesn't guarantee any 1/4 mile time, you have to have your chassis and suspension dialed in so it will HOOK. That's what I've been saying all along.


Assuming your chassis and suspsension has been tuned, that low 9 second power easy, of course it depends on how much your car weighs too.

You should go out to the dragstrip and look at everybody's setup, see what they run, etc and you can put the theory to the real test.

ARE's 8 second car had a good nitrous shot on it too, plus it had a narrowed rear with a big slick.

X amount of horsepower doesn't guarantee any 1/4 mile time, you have to have your chassis and suspension dialed in so it will HOOK. That's what I've been saying all along.


Assuming your chassis and suspsension has been tuned, that low 9 second power easy, of course it depends on how much your car weighs too.

You should go out to the dragstrip and look at everybody's setup, see what they run, etc and you can put the theory to the real test.

ARE's engine was a 436 with C5R heads. Dyno'ed 580 RWHP IIRC and had a 400 shot DP.

What is the proper chassis. What would need to be added/changed on my car for example to be a decent drag set-up?

sig.

need to get rid of those springs and put stock ones back on, Wolfe or Spohn rear sway bar, Madman or Spohn TA. The rest looks like you have. to get 8 or 9's you'll need and want a 10 point cage. Then everything has to be tuned in, that's takes a while to figure out. someone like madman can do that in a couple of hours cause he's a friggin genius.

go to drag racing forum, lots of good stuff there.

Most importantly its getting seat time at the track. Moroso has something today I believe that I wanted to go chekc out .

need to get rid of those springs and put stock ones back on, Wolfe or Spohn rear sway bar, Madman or Spohn TA. The rest looks like you have. to get 8 or 9's you'll need and want a 10 point cage. Then everything has to be tuned in, that's takes a while to figure out. someone like madman can do that in a couple of hours cause he's a friggin genius.

go to drag racing forum, lots of good stuff there.

Most importantly its getting seat time at the track. Moroso has something today I believe that I wanted to go chekc out .

If I move to O-lando I'll probably get into it more than I am now. Norris will close to, since I'd be living downtown. I remember seeing nice apartment developments near his shop.

The hp may not impress you, but the tq with blow your mind